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Thinking about the Yaris in the garage thread got me comparing it to my first car. It was a 1964 MINI in red. Not much more than a tin box on wheels with seats and an engine but a modern concept in its day. The Yaris is more economical, has auto almost everything, climate control air con, bluetooth, multi airbags, and is computer managed. Things have certainly moved on. How does your first car compare to modern motors.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 4 Apr 15 at 17:45
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Us old gits were discussing this at work the other day. The Spamette's generation (20 and 23) take it for granted that when they turn the key (assuming there is one) the car will start instantly; they've completely missed the 'joy' of trying to start a HC Viva using just the right combination of throttle and choke.
Then there's the aircon, ABS, crumple zones, cars that don't rust (1st gen. Ka and early 2000s Fiesta excepted), effective heater and demisting, ICE, the fact that the car will likely run for years with little more than oil changes (if that) and so on.
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I went from the MINI to a HA Viva, big mistake. Mrs ON was horrified when I told her that Vauxhall were about to start selling a Viva, I think she instantly thought of the one we owned. :-)
These modern cars are rubbish, no handbag hook. (Choke knob)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 4 Apr 15 at 18:11
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>> they've completely missed the 'joy' of trying to start
>> a HC Viva using just the right combination of throttle and choke.
And that was easier than various 'automatic' choke devices. Dependent on vagaries of temperature, pressure and relative humidity/dewpoint the petrol BX would stall somewhere between end of our road and the roundabout by what's now Sixfields Stadium.
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Ugly little brutes Humph, that one and the Riley with their perky little bums, yuck... nothing wrong with a well sorted 1071cc Mini Cooper if you ax me, not the best rally weapon but civilised and cool on the road, and quick enough for anyone...
A friend had custody of one for a while. Another friend, a Notting Hill native with a racy mother, had one for a while too, chckered roof and offcentre bonnet stripes. He was a real car man but a sour character, not good with ladies. But I remember the cat with great affection. He had a vintage Sunbeam at one point, chapeau.
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My first car had cable brakes, magneto ignition and a petrol tank mounted on the front bulkhead above the engine... And a fabric body , leaf springs alround and no water pump (thermosyphon)
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Cars have moved from a point where you needed to understand them to use them, to a point where you can just use them without knowing what's going on.
I really wish computers would do the same.
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>> Cars have moved from a point where you needed to understand them to use them,
>> to a point where you can just use them without knowing what's going on.
>>
>>
Yep, you wouldn't get very far back in the seventies or before unless you could do at least a basic bit of fettling. I can remember sitting in my Reliant Regal one wet afternoon and being able to remove, strip and replace the carb without getting out of the drivers seat.
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>> I can remember sitting in my Reliant Regal one wet afternoon and being able to remove, strip and replace the carb
Omigod yes. You could do so much through those side panels. Trouble was, after a while they never did fit properly again and so engine smells, noises and a view of the road passing underneath became just part of life.
And they had just such a distinctive feel to them....
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>>Omigod yes. You could do so much through those side panels. Trouble was, after a while they never did fit properly again and so engine smells, noises and a view of the road passing underneath became just part of life.
And they had just such a distinctive feel to them....
Did you actually own one of 'those things' then Martin. I got to work on and drive most cars/vans/motorhomes, back then, even a few petrol-engine Bedford lorries but, a three wheeler!! .. I honestly couldn't see why anyone would choose to own one, apart from the low running costs of course. Too damned dangerous in a smash too, I'll wager.
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>> Too damned dangerous in a smash too, I'll wager.
>>
A Reliant of some sort hit a solid bridge support on a downhill bend in a 40 limit near here, too fast for the bend is my guess. It disintegrated, I don't know what happened to the occupant(s), but suspect it was not good.
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I suppose one could say that 3 wheels are better than 2, in some circumstances, but I'd rather have 4. Metal is stronger than glass fibre too, usually.
I've driven orange Bong Bugs as well ... not for me thanks!
The Reliant Scimitar was an improvement of course, with its 3 ltr Ford V6 engine. I did even fancy one at one time, but the more I worked on them, the more problems I saw with them, so I quickly crossed those off the list of must haves.
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>> >> Too damned dangerous in a smash too, I'll wager.
>> >>
>>
But perfectly safe if you don't crash them. I owned mine because at the time I only had a bike licence and one harsh winter when I arrived at work yet again with tears in my eyes as my almost frostbitten hands thawed out I thought enough is enough.
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>>one harsh winter when I arrived at work yet again with tears in my eyes as my almost frostbitten hands thawed out I thought enough is enough
As I said, 3 wheels are better than 2, in some circumstances ;)
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Too damned dangerous in a smash too, I'll wager.
>>
And in a fire. I clearly remember returning from a family holiday in Mablethorpe in about 1972; we overtook a Reliant Regal just outside Wragby, and shortly afterwards we could smell petrol. Dad put it down to a splash on his clothes as he'd just filled the car up; however as we were getting out of the car in the centre of Wragby for a lunch stop, the Reliant trundled into view, stopped in the middle of the road, the driver and two passengers got out very quickly and a couple of seconds later the whole car was a ball of flame.
I've been very wary of Reliants ever since; first wife's father had one because he only had a motorbike license, and being self-taught on the car he was an atrocious driver. Only ever went out in the damn thing with him once, swore I'd never repeat the experience. I've felt safer on the pillion of a Kawasaki 500 triple ridden by a raving loony.
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>>I've felt safer on the pillion of a Kawasaki 500 triple ridden by a raving loony.
Hehe! .. and, speaking of fires, reminds me of the time we were on our way to Cornwall from London, on a glorious summers day in July. I had been giving my P6 the gun all the way from Chiswick to Honiton, non-stop, at speeds between 96 and 108MPH.
We had arranged to meet my brother and his family in the Little Chef/Happy Eater, just orf the M5 at Honiton and I had just filled the Rover to the brim with 4 star.
When we came out to the car after stuffing our faces with full English AND waffles!! I noticed that, due to the heat, the petrol was flooding out all over the place due. Ever the hero, I legged it :) and advised everyone to keep well away until whatever happened, happened.
Thankfully, nothing happened, which is just as well, because it had all our gear in it, could have been nasty though.
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I guess a car is a lot more simple machine than a computer and only has one use. The trouble is that we want one machine to do everything but don't expect to have to learn anything before we use it. Tablet computers remove a lot of the pain.
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MINI Clubvan vs. Mini Clubman, bear little in common, except the distinctive headlamp bulge viewed from the driver's seat, and a vestige of distinctive "gear noise" engineered into the modern beast.
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Not sure I'd say a car is simpler than computer? I don't know much about computers but a bog standard pc vs any new car, id say the pc was 'simpler'.
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>> Not sure I'd say a car is simpler than computer? I don't know much about
>> computers but a bog standard pc vs any new car, id say the pc was
>> 'simpler'.
There is nothing very clever about a car. But mostly it works because you can't muck about with it much, unlike a computer.
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>> But mostly [a car] works because you can't muck about with it much, unlike a computer.
Speak for yourself. I'd be far happier fettling and modifying a car than I would any kind of computer.
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>> Not sure I'd say a car is simpler than computer? I don't know much about
>> computers but a bog standard pc vs any new car, id say the pc was
>> 'simpler'
When was the technology available to build the first car available.? And a computer?
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What has that to do with simplicity?
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Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 4 Apr 15 at 19:41
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>> .
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I feel an acerbic reply hit the floor there.....
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Cars are simpler than computers to me, but only because I know how they work while computers are a total mystery.
Of course to operate a car properly you need a cluster of highly-developed skills. Computers on the other hand have evolved into something a cretin or four-year-old can operate. No one's neck is at risk either.
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>> I feel an acerbic reply hit the floor there.....
I can live with acerbic;
CG has a knack of spotting the gap between what I meant and what I wrote. And then commenting on it.
That's a bit more difficult to cope with.
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>> >> .
>> >>
>>
>> I feel an acerbic reply hit the floor there.....
>>
>>
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Best you pick it up and save it then. You've normally got more use for them than most of us. ;-)
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>> Best you pick it up and save it then. You've normally got more use for
>> them than most of us. ;-)
Anything that hits the floor in my house is eaten by the dog
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 6 Apr 15 at 00:55
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>> What has that to do with simplicity?
Put it like this, a computer can drive the car, a car cant operate the computer.
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I dont think that is to do with it. But each to their own ideas.
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I guess you first have to define simplicity and then specify what that simplicity applies to. Is it the construction of the device and how complicated it would be to build or are we talking about how simple it is to operate.
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I suppose you would, how would you define it?
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>> Put it like this, a computer can drive the car, a car cant operate the computer.
But only up to a point Lord C. Yet another piece in today's comic on self driving cars which, er, can't really drive themselves safely in all conditions without a hovering human.
My opinion too from way back. Informed though.
You might train the car to take the nippers to school and then come back home wagging its tail. But would you want your nippers in a thing controlled by a dodgy electronic brain? Perhaps it wouldn't let them out, or would just eat them.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 4 Apr 15 at 20:20
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>> Put it like this, a computer can drive the car, a car cant operate
>>the computer.
Oh if there's ever a gap in the Olympics for meaningless b***** then you're so going to win.
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>> Oh if there's ever a gap in the Olympics for meaningless b***** then you're so
>> going to win.
Alas I am forever relegated to to Silver behind your perpetual Gold.
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Car maintenance classes at night school. Anyone remember them? The classes I attended used a BL B series engine to work on if memory serves me correctly. Came in useful as I did all my own maintenance in those days.....mini Clubman estate ( my first car) Marina, Fiat 124/8, golf GTI, RS2000. I wonder how long ago such classes finished running?
Since then I have not enrolled for many recreational evening classes...Bridge, French, Spanish, Plumbing, Cookery. ( ulterior motive on the last)
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>> I wonder how long ago such courses finished running?
I did a plumbing course at the (ultra modern) local tech 5 years ago. They had a vehicle maintenance workshop on-site, not sure if evening courses were offered or whether they were only training apprentice mechanics though. Cars in pieces were all mid 90s petrol 16v jobs; Corolla, Escort, Megane et al.
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Dug out a few owner's manuals to sell on fleabay. Found a 1985 Mini one - 70 pages written in plain English, with a maintenance/service section. Checked the MINI's book - 226 pages. Mainly don't do this, don't do that.
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You cannot really compare a computer to a car, is a bit like comparing a car to a house.
My first car was actually quite modern, it was push rod, had wind up windows, had no power steering, but it did have an airbag, electronic ignition and fuel injection.
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was there a program on tv if i remember i was only a little boy but it came in the 70s and it showed a mechanic explaining how to change the oil on a mini and stuff like that think it was on itv.
One thing that i think is a step backwards is the rear visibility and ride comfort the old cars had that.
car manufacturers should also focus on ride quality and better visibility as it style over substance nowadays.
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>> was there a program on tv if i remember i was only a little boy
>> but it came in the 70s and it showed a mechanic explaining how to change
>> the oil on a mini and stuff like that think it was on itv.
>>
>>
They'd probably be sued now when some lunkhead managed to scald himself with hot oilor jammed the new filter in his ear.
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>> some lunkhead managed to scald himself with hot oilor
>> jammed the new filter in his ear.
Have done both.
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>> >> Have done both.
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The oil I get, but...
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Things have moved on a bit. - spamcan61
