Motoring Discussion > Parking Eye	Legal Questions
Thread Author: helicopter	Replies: 87

New Thu 2 Apr 15 15:21   Parking Eye - helicopter

SWMBO got a parking charge notice today from this crowd of shysters.... overstay by 30 minutes in a Morrisons car park . It upset her a lot until I pointed out that it was not a criminal offence and that it was a civil matter. I have read the forums and current advice on MSE , Pepipoo , Legal Beagles etc seems to be not to ignore the letter from the outset but to send a standard appeal template letter as the keeper , not identifying the driver but using the normal grounds of unfair contract etc , no material loss , unclear signage etc . MSE template letter is going today. Parking Eye then have to allow the appeal or reject and issue a POPLA appeal number within 35 days. ISTR Ted having a problem with them not so long ago but anybody here had any experience of going to appeal or county court with them.... I would love to hear your experiences . Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 15:41   Parking Eye - R.P.

Good tactic. Glad to see that the local Co-op have binned them in favour of another provider. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 16:10   Parking Eye - WillDeBeest

I had one of these from them a couple of years ago after dropping off two visiting colleagues at their Heathrow hotel and then accepting their invitation to join them for dinner. A polite email to the hotel made it go away; might be worth one to Morrisons if you're regular customers. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 16:09   Parking Eye - Zero

Got a parking fine at Taplow Station, late last year. I took photos of the area, sent in the appeal letter claiming unclear parking bays, and insufficient and unclear signage, and I got a letter back from them 60 days later cancelling the fine "without prejudice" Not even a POPLA appeal number. It was a clear cut case tho, there were no marked bays and very little signage. You have to be careful with railway parking, sometimes you fall foul of the railway act and its bylaws, where its not a civil offence. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 16:27   Parking Eye - helicopter

might be worth one to Morrisons if you're regular customers. Can't be a***d at the moment, already taken too much of my time today. Used to be a Safeways when we lived in Reigate, now Morrisons so SWMBO whilst she did buy some items there on the day did also go to have her hair done which delayed matters. I do have Morrisons CEO email from another forum though if things get nasty but I am keeping my powder dry at the moment....see what the PE response is before getting too excited. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 16:50   Parking Eye - Old Navy

A similar outfit made the news today. (Daily Mail) tinyurl.com/prj8b5n Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 16:50 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 16:50   Parking Eye - Falkirk Bairn

My D-i-L received an Invoice from Parking Eye (owned by Crapita (Private Eye). They sent photcopy of receipts from Waitrose (shopping & Cafe) + TKMaxx showing sale total of £200+. Cancelled - In Scotland the Parking regime is different - they cannot do anything as they only know the car owner name, not the driver's and there is no legal compulsion to provide the name) Last edited by: Falkirk Bairn on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 16:53 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 17:09   Parking Eye - Zero

>> In Scotland the Parking regime is different - they cannot do anything as they only >> know the car owner name, not the driver's and there is no legal compulsion to >> provide the name) There is no legal compulsion to provide your name south of the border either (for parking anyway) however the parking companies can take recovery action against the registered keeper. Last edited by: Zero on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 17:10 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 17:27   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

The results of this case should clarify the legal situation. www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/reclaim/2015/02/legality-of-private-parking-fines-to-be-tested-in-court-today Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 17:33   Parking Eye - Old Navy

We must be getting near an election. :-) tinyurl.com/po7qbeb Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 17:51   Parking Eye - No FM2R

Difficult though.... Free car parks can be a nightmare; they just fill up with commuters, students, residents, workers and every other person who finds them convenient all stopping "genuine" store users from finding space to park. I don't want to pay if I'm shopping in that store or stores, though I do expect spaces to be available. So what then? They put a time limit on the free stay to try and distinguish between genuine and pretend shoppers. If you do nothing with the ones that overstay the limit then you'll just go back to a clogged car park that the genuine shoppers can't use, so charges are issued against the infringers. It doesn't really matter if the limit is set at 1hr, 2hr or 5hr, there's always going to be someone at +2m who thinks its unfair. So what do you do? Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 17:53 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 18:11   Parking Eye - Old Navy

>> Difficult though.... >> >> So what do you do? >> >> Make all car parks pay on exit with a token system for genuine users. The current parking system is just a money making scam. Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 18:12 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 18:12   Parking Eye - No FM2R

I don't know why they don't use some kind of exit system. You wouldn't have thought it was *that* expensive. Well, its not a scam as such, although it most certainly is money making. Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 18:13 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 18:47   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

It is clearly impossible to make all car parks "pay on exit". The rights of car park owners and shops asre often ignored in this issue. If someone left their car in you driveway all day you would rightly be annoyed. Similarly a shop who goes to the expense and effor of providing a car park is similarly entitled to be aggrieved and seek recompense from those who take advantage. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 19:32   Parking Eye - Runfer D'Hills

I'm sort of caught on the horns of this, while I abhor unfair parking charges, if you park on private land and exceed the agreement... Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 19:36   Parking Eye - Old Navy

>> I'm sort of caught on the horns of this, while I abhor unfair parking charges, >> if you park on private land and exceed the agreement... >> I think if the charges were reasonable instead of extortionate it would make them more acceptable. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 19:42   Parking Eye - Runfer D'Hills

Indeed so, but if the penalties are made clear, and of course they may or may not have been, but on the assumption they are... Not for one moment defending any form of usury but I guess these places have to protect themselves from intentional abuse of their facilities. However unintentional this particular instance was. Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 19:43 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 19:58   Parking Eye - No FM2R

I think its necessary that there is a limit, although I think the limit should be very high. The only "get out" should be if the Ts&Cs and the penalties were not very clearly and obviously spelled out. They wouldn't need to do anything if there wasn't abuse. And if it was only the "mistakes" that occurred, then nobody would be making any money. Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 20:01 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 18:39   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

I guess it's all about being proportionate. An owner of a car park iin my opinion is clearly entitled to make a charge for those who flought the conditions. To me a charge of £20 or so for an overstay up to An hour would be reasonable. £85 seems excessive. The result of the above appeal should at last throw some certainty on the issue. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 19:22   Parking Eye - Falkirk Bairn

Free carpark fills up quickly with all manner of people - store customers good, others bad. Charge £2.00 to park with cash off at the till....it works! Likewise getting a GP Appointment - charge £10 and if you need a prescription it's free. I am sure this wold reduce the delays in a GP Appointment. Paying £10,00 for 16 x Patacetamols would make people think before demanding a GP appointment where home remedies would suffice. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Thu 2 Apr 15 20:08   Parking Eye - Runfer D'Hills

Did you know why there are no pain killers available in the jungle? The parrots eat 'em all. Yeah ok, see you later... Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 20:10   Parking Eye - No FM2R

Don't let your coat hit you in the back as you leave. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 20:16   Parking Eye - helicopter

I agree that you cannot allow parking to be uncontrolled but what makes me annoyed is the element of deceit and usury by these people who try and frighten people into paying up by pretending that the matter is a criminal rather than civil offence and relying on peoples ignorance of the law to make money. If the charge was reasonable then it would not be so bad , say a fiver but not 85 quid. Letter has now been sent off to them ...... Last edited by: helicopter on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 20:19 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 2 Apr 15 20:40   Parking Eye - No FM2R

>>what makes me annoyed is the element of deceit and usury by these people who....... I couldn't agree more. For that they should be nailed to a wall. >> If the charge was reasonable then it would not be so bad , Well, of course it wouldn't. But that's not really the point of it, is it? It is supposed to stop you doing it again, and for some people £5.00 for convenient parking might be ok. I see nothing wrong with the £85. They should just make sure that you really cannot park there without knowing about it. Of course, that might have an impact on the store's popularity and therefore revenue, so then we'd find out if it really was a problem they wanted addressed, or they were simply looking for a few quid. As I've said before, if the London Congestion Charge was about stopping cars, it'd be £1,000 per day. But its not, its about revenue and thus they want people to keep on coming and keep on paying it. Whereas at £85 the car park charge does at least seem to be aimed at actually stopping cars, albeit making a profit in the process. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 00:12   Parking Eye - Armel Coussine

I really hate having to pay to park, but one often has to of course. I used to have all sorts of free London parkers, but they could suddenly turn nasty on you, car taken away or worse still vandalised. France is great, just zoom in to the side of the road and leave it as long as you want. Likewise Spain and Italy bearing local regulations in mind. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 07:12   Parking Eye - Crankcase

Pick up Mrs each night after work. I usually have to wait between ten and twenty minutes for her, depending on when she actually gets out. The only place to park is a road a few hundred yards away, where there is a little car park. Used to be free in the road, then that went to double yellows with a time restriction and boy do they warden it at that time of day. So now have to go into the car park. For ages it's been £1 for thirty minutes, so costing what, £20, £25 a month to do the pick up. Yesterday I put in my £1 and then noticed the tiny print had changed since the day before. Now £1.40 for thirty minutes, or if you prefer 70p for twenty. I'm not sure whether I'm grumpy about a 40% unannounced increase or pleased I can possibly reduce the bill. However, I have parked there long enough to know that if you get to two minutes over the time the warden gets you, so it's a fine call to only buy 20 minutes. It's £60 for any overstay. Ah, you say, pick her up later so she waits, not the other way round. Ah, I say, little do you know Cambridge traffic. leavd ten minutes later for the pickup, wait another 40 in the traffic to do that particular three quarter mile. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 07:24   Parking Eye - Manatee

Get her to walk the 3/4 mile? Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Fri 3 Apr 15 08:31   Parking Eye - Zero

There is a place I know, where they have what I consider a fair parking system It works on getting a little plastic token on entry that has an RF chip inside. The first two hours is £2.50 but £2.50 gets knocked off if you present your little token in one of the shops when you buy something. After that, the parking charges rack up heavily per hour. so the scale goes (as long as you spend in a shop) 0-2 hours free 3 hours £3 4 hours £7 5 hours £12.50 6 hours £15 7 hours £30 You can't avoid it, the car park has entry and exit barriers Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 12:25   Parking Eye - sooty123

Round here its first 2 hours for free then upto 12 hours for a fiver. Its probably half full at worst never seen anyone to enforce the parking rules. I see the same few cars parked there all day. I guess we are lucky parking is not an issue around here. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 16:00   Parking Eye - No FM2R

Where's that Zero? And how do you pay to leave? A lot of the supermarkets here follow an approach where customers who spend an amount (proven with till receipt) get a corresponding amount free; Something like.... <£2 = 15 mins Upto £10 = 30 mins Upto £25 = 1hr Upto £100 = 2hrs Non-customers pay about £2 per half hour. Its enforced using old style car park attendants. They roam putting a ticket under your windscreen when you arrive, and then they come to your car and you pay them according to your windscreen ticket less your till receipt amount. The "chief" attendant takes a cut from his takings from which he pays himself and as many or few assistants as he thinks he needs- all casual, cash in hand labour of course. One thing that helps is that official bureaucracy is terrifying here. So, if one of these car park attendants reports your licence plate as driving off, then the police will contact you and ask you to attend a military police station downtown and make a statement admitting it or denying it. The trouble is, downtown there is *no* parking, so you need to take a 1hr bus ride which will be packed, it typically takes you 2 - 3 hours in the police station queuing and then providing all the documents for your car and yourself, including MOT equivalent, Road Tax equivalent, insurance, ownership details, your ID, your licence etc. and that's if you *didn't* do it and they believe you. And *ANY* discrepancy in your paper work will be dealt with, usually with a fine, 10 hours more bureaucracy, and the removal of your licence or car. Consequently NOBODY drives off. Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 3 Apr 15 at 16:02 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 16:12   Parking Eye - Zero

>> Where's that Zero? And how do you pay to leave? West London shopping centre, and you stick your token into a machine and pay by cash or card. Then stick your token in the exit barrier when leaving. Last edited by: Zero on Fri 3 Apr 15 at 16:13 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 11:02   Parking Eye - sooty123

>> Get her to walk the 3/4 mile? >> >> might not be walkable or perhaps not able to walk that far? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 15:02   Parking Eye - Crankcase

>> >> Get her to walk the 3/4 mile? >> >> >> >> >> might not be walkable or perhaps not able to walk that far? >> Walkable but then we START at 5:30 on the even worse side of town and the traffic is even worse. It gets tedious, this ten mile commute that commonly takes an hour as it is! Yeah yeah, bike. Not for her. No confidence. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 15:25   Parking Eye - sooty123

If traffic is that bad I wouldn't have thought there'd be much in it? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 09:47   Parking Eye - Cliff Pope

>> >> So what do you do? >> Don't stay longer than 2 hours? Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Fri 3 Apr 15 13:12   Parking Eye - Armel Coussine

As helicopter says, you just have to argue persistently through the tiresome and time-consuming official channels until these money-grubbing demands for a hundred quid for a 2 minute overstay fade away naturally. 'Perseverance brings good fortune.' (I Ching) Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 14:29   Parking Eye - helicopter

Or pay up straight away ........ (Kerching) Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 3 Apr 15 14:48   Parking Eye - Armel Coussine

Heh heh... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 13:17   Parking Eye - helicopter

Well surprise surprise, Parking Eye rejected the letter of appeal as they always do. So we have now sent a letter of appeal off to POPLA.... taken from a template but adjusted to suit. Dear Sir/Madam, I appeal against the decision of Parking Eye Ltd because they have failed to follow the BPA code of practice and attempted to impose a penalty charge for either breach of contract or trespass. The operator does not appear to own this car park and are assumed to be merely agents for the owner or legal occupier. In their Notice and in the rejection letters, The operator has not provided me with any evidence that it is lawfully entitled to demand money from a driver or keeper, since they do not own nor have any interest or assignment of title of the land in question. I require the operator to provide a full copy of the actual contemporaneous, signed & dated contract with the landowner. Contracts are complicated things, so a witness statement signed by someone is not good enough, neither is a statement that a person has seen it. A copy of the original, showing the points above, is the only acceptable item as evidence that a contract exists and authorises the Operator the right, under contract, to write numerous letters to an appellant chasing monies without taking them to Court, to pursue parking charges in their own name, to retain any monies received from appellants and to pursue them through to Court. I say that any contract is not compliant with the requirements set out in the BPA Code of Practice. I do not believe that the Operator has the necessary legal capacity to enter into a contract with a driver of a vehicle parking in the car park, or indeed the legal standing to allege a breach of contract. I refer the Adjudicator to the recent Appeal Court decision in the case of Vehicle Control Services (VCS) v HMRC ( EWCA Civ 186 [2013]): The principal issue in this case was to determine the actual nature of Private Parking Charges. It was stated that, "If those charges are consideration for a supply of goods or services, they will be subject to VAT. If, on the other hand, they are damages they will not be." The ruling of the Court stated, "I would hold, therefore, that the monies that VCS collected from motorists by enforcement of parking charges were not consideration moving from the landowner in return for the supply of parking services." In other words, they are not, as the Operator asserts, a contractual term. If they were a contractual term, the Operator would have to provide a VAT invoice, to provide a means of payment at the point of supply, and to account to HMRC for the VAT element of the charge. The Appellant asserts that these requirements have not been met. It must therefore be concluded that the Operator's charges are in fact damages, or penalties, for which the Operator must demonstrate his actual, or pre-estimated losses, as set out above. 7.1 of the BPA code of practice makes it a requirement that Parking Eye either own the land, or have the written authorisation of the land owner to enable them to operate on the land. I, as registered keeper, put Parking Eye to strict proof that a valid contract exists that enables them to act in this manner on behalf of the landowner. It is not an onerous task to produce the contract as section 8.1 of the code means it has to be available at all times. The BPA Code of Practice indicates at paragraph 13.4 that the Respondent should, “allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action.” The signage in the car park provides no indication of the period of time it allows and this is unreasonable, especially as Parking Eye rely on pictures taken of a vehicle at first arrival and then when leaving (not showing any evidence at all of actual parking time). So, there is no evidence that the respondent can produce to indicate that my vehicle was parked for more than the arbitrary time limit they are relying upon, and no breach of contract by the driver can be demonstrated by their evidence at all. On that basis the sum claimed fails to meet the standards set out in paragraph 19 of the BPA Code of Practice. 19.5 of the code of practice states, “If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge must be based on the genuine pre-estimate of loss that you suffer,” There was only a minimal parking charge levied, the car park is not £100 to park as long as you like or any other specified duration. There can only have been minimal loss arising from this incident. Neither can Parking Eye lawfully include their operational day-to-day running costs in enforcing parking restrictions at the site (for example, by erecting signage and employing administration staff) in any 'loss' claimed. See VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICESLIMITED -v- MR R IBBOTSON and A Retailer v Ms B and Ms K, Oxford County Court. This does not represent a loss resulting from a breach of the alleged parking contract. In other words, were no breach to have occurred, the cost of parking enforcement would still have been the same. This has been quoted by PoPLA itself in adjucation. I contend there can only be a loss of the applicable tariff ; no pre-estimate (prior to starting to 'charge for breaches' at this site) has been prepared or considered in advance. The charge that was levied is punitive and therefore void (i.e. unenforceable) against me. The initial charge is arbitrary and in no way proportionate to any alleged breach of contract. Nor does it even equate to local council charges for all day parking. This is all the more so for the additional charges which operator states accrues after 28 days of non-payment. This would also apply to any mentioned costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a court order. I would question that if a charge can be discounted by 40% by early payment that it is unreasonable to begin with. UNLAWFUL PENALTY CHARGE Since there was no demonstrable loss/damage and yet a breach of contract has been alleged for a free car park, it can only remain a fact that this 'charge' is an attempt at extorting an unlawful charge to impersonate a parking ticket. This is similar to the decisions in several County Court cases such as Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman (2008), also OBServices v Thurlow (review, February 2011), Parking Eye v Smith (Manchester County Court December 2011) and UKCPS v Murphy (April 2012) . The operator is either charging for losses or it is a penalty/fine. The operator could state the letter as an invoice or request for monies, but chooses to use the wording “ PARKING CHARGE NOTICE” in an attempt to be deemed an official parking fine similar to what the Police and Council Wardens issue. NO CONTRACT WITH THE DRIVER There is no contract between PCC and the driver, but even if there was a contract then it is unfair as defined in the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.. So the requirements of forming a contract such as a meeting of minds, agreement, certainty of terms, etc, were not satisfied. UNFAIR TERMS The charge that was levied is an unfair term, and therefore not binding, pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e) "Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation." Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) states that: "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer" and 5(2) states: "A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term." UNREASONABLE The charge that was levied is an unreasonable indemnity clause pursuant to section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 which provides that: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.” I further contend that Parking Eye have failed to show me any evidence that the cameras in this car park comply with the requirements of the BPA Code of Practice part 21 (ANPR) and would require POPLA to consider that particular section of the Code in its entirety and decide whether the Operator has shown proof of contemporaneous manual checks and full compliance with section 21 of the Code, in its evidence. I, as registered keeper, contend that these cameras and their operation do not meet the standards laid down in the BPA code of practice. I would contend that this appeal should be allowed for these reasons. I am SO looking forward to the next stage. Bring it on ..... Last edited by: helicopter on Mon 20 Apr 15 at 13:18 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 13:44   Parking Eye - Slidingpillar

Hmm, you do know that it is a generally accepted rule that letters of complaint need to be no more than a single side of A4? While a legal letter cannot be ignored, at roughly four pages you aint gonna win any friends with this, and I'd not expect a resolution any time soon. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 14:30   Parking Eye - WillDeBeest

I agree, that's simply too long to be effective. I think NoFM had it right before: you took the liberty that the supermarket is trying to prevent and got found out. If Morrisons won't get the charge waived, I can't see elaborate technicality-hunting being any more effective. Time to pay up. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 14:42   Parking Eye - Fursty Ferret

I received a "fine" from UKPC after their non-sticky ticket blew over on the dashboard on a windy day. I emailed them and included a photo of the ticket. Unsurprisingly, a reply saying that they declined my appeal but they'd agree to an early settlement fee of £15. Apparently I can appeal to POPLA but if I lose the full £90 is payable (and this is in a nominally "free" car park anyway). A letter was despatched by recorded delivery this morning explaining that the only way they'll get money out of me is through direct court action. I also explained that if they (or their debt management company) contacted me again either by writing or by phone I'd lodge a complaint with the police for harassment, and that if they forced me to write to them again I'd sue them for my expenses at my current overtime rate. We shall see. Scumbags. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 14:59   Parking Eye - Clk Sec

>> and that if they forced me to write to them again I'd sue them for my expenses at my current overtime rate. That should stop them in their tracks. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 14:41   Parking Eye - No FM2R

In such a letter one should always apply the "SFW?" test and, if it adds no value, take it out. [Mind you, in this I am frequently an expert on what should be done despite often failing to do it myself]. e.g. in the follow example I would delete the second paragraph, the first says all that needed to be said. "I require the operator to provide a full copy of the actual contemporaneous, signed & dated contract with the landowner. Contracts are complicated things, so a witness statement signed by someone is not good enough, neither is a statement that a person has seen it. A copy of the original, showing the points above, is the only acceptable item as evidence that a contract exists and authorises the Operator the right, under contract, to write numerous letters to an appellant chasing monies without taking them to Court, to pursue parking charges in their own name, to retain any monies received from appellants and to pursue them through to Court." Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 20 Apr 15 at 14:42 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 15:44   Parking Eye - helicopter

The letter is that length in order to comprehensvely reply to all the irrelevant arguments PE put up in reply to my appeal to them which was two pages of a4 misleading rubbish ...... No FM2R , the second para is particularly designed to ensure that PE produce a proper signed contract rather than avoid the issue as the lack of provision of such a contract is one of the major issues leading to POPLA appeals being allowed...... In general I agree with Fursty that they can whistle for their money but I want to cause them as much aggravation ,cost and grief as I possibly can. Their business model stinks.... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 16:00   Parking Eye - Zero

>> Their business model stinks.... Actually the business model is pretty good. Ethics is another matter. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 16:04   Parking Eye - No FM2R

Fair enough. I'm sure I know less about these appeals than most. I haven't ever had one of these private company parking invoices. Ironically of course this is all supporting the approach - Morrisons get their car park managed, suffer no costs and receive no negative publicity And you won't overstay again. IMO you'll be more likely to "win" if you damage Morrisons' benefits. The local rag may be your friend. Good luck. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 16:08   Parking Eye - Armel Coussine

>> Their business model stinks.... Not that I'm any good at business models myself, but have they got one? These municipal bureaucrats are unbelievably numb and unresponsive on the lower levels. They believe they are paid to be humourless, dour and money-grubbing, so they grub for money in a humourless, dour and often rather tired way. They are the State's expedient for keeping us on our toes. It doesn't want a restive population but it doesn't want us to think we know what's going to happen next or that we have paid our dues. It likes us best when we are slightly guilty and worried. We have to try to maintain a margin of manoeuvre, a bit of autonomy, but the carphounds have us surrounded. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 16:28   Parking Eye - Falkirk Bairn

The laws in Scotland are different but ignoring all correspondence they seem to tire and the issue goes away. Our local authority had a "free after 3pm" parking scheme to encourage people to come to the town centre. Lasted a few months, parking takings down (funnily enough!!) so they have cancelled the free parking AND put up the tariffs by 30p!! It cost £4500 to put up the signs and £500 to take them down - I would have taken them down for a lot less than £500 - 10 car parks, say 4 signs per site = £12.50 per sign seems a lot for what is a few bolts or maybe using some snips! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 16:47   Parking Eye - Roger.

Our local council have been really sly in their parking charges. The price for the first hour in Council owned car parks has very recently increased to £1.10. The price is only published at the ticket machine itself. Their machines give no change, so unless you have a 10p piece to hand as well as the £1, they win! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 17:02   Parking Eye - Zero

>> Their machines give no change, so unless you have a 10p piece to hand as >> well as the £1, they win! Thats nothing, there was once place I went to that was £1.55 for 50 minutes. You got no chance of remembering when to get back and no chance of having 55p Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 17:43   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

We still seem to be awaiting the decision of the Appeal Court in Parking Eye v Beavis Here is a rather unconventional but interesting piece of court reporting on the case which was heard in February parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/parkingeye-v-beavis-court-of-appeal.html Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 18:10   Parking Eye - Bromptonaut

>> Thats nothing, there was once place I went to that was £1.55 for 50 minutes. >> You got no chance of remembering when to get back and no chance of having >> 55p > Just keep a little purse in the car with a few quid in coins in - how difficult is that? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 18:15   Parking Eye - Zero

>> Just keep a little purse You didn't need to tell me you had a little purse, somehow I just knew...... Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Mon 20 Apr 15 18:16   Parking Eye - Armel Coussine

>> Just keep a little purse in the car with a few quid in coins in - how difficult is that? Or always travel with a large entourage of African women and London girls. If you can't make them cough up a quid or two when you need it without resorting to really serious violence, just a bit of persuasion knowImean, you'll never succeed my son. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 18:31   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

>> >> Just keep a little purse in the car with a few quid in coins in >> - how difficult is that? >> Apart from the purse thing ( why not use the ash tray for coin storage?) surely your plan falls down if you have a a few quid coins in the car and you have to pay £1.55 into a machine that does not give change. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Mon 20 Apr 15 18:37   Parking Eye - Bromptonaut

>> Apart from the purse thing ( why not use the ash tray for coin storage?) >> surely your plan falls down if you have a a few quid coins in the >> car and you have to pay £1.55 into a machine that does not give change. The BX had a little drawer for that purpose but designed for Francs/Centimes rather than UK coins. Ignoring snide comments about purses how difficult is it to keep a few 5/10/20/50 p coins in car along with the pounds. It's not as if we don't all accumulate such 'shrapnel'. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 18:49   Parking Eye - sooty123

>> The BX had a little drawer for that purpose but designed for Francs/Centimes rather than >> UK coins. Good design idea from the french. In an era before mobiles you'd need money to ring the AA etc to get it home again. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Mon 20 Apr 15 19:13   Parking Eye - Old Navy

You could always put £1.60 in the machine, or even £1.70 if you really want to park there. Not exactly a bank breaker. Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 20 Apr 15 at 19:16 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 19:20   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

Not difficult at all. Always have about five pounds of loose change in the car, never had a parking fine in my life. Don't overstay in car parks, don't really see what the problem is and don't have a lot of sympathy with those who choose to ignore signage and get caught out. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 19:39   Parking Eye - PeterS

>> The BX had a little drawer for that purpose but designed for Francs/Centimes rather than >> UK coins. Ignoring snide comments about purses how difficult is it to keep a few >> 5/10/20/50 p coins in car along with the pounds. It's not as if we don't >> all accumulate such 'shrapnel'. >> Well you say that, but where does one accumulate 'shrapnel' nowadays? Cash has completely disappeared from my day to day life bar the hand car wash (and that's a tenner with tip), and now it's not even needed for the Dartford crossing... And I don't go to Wales ;) If I can't pay by phone or card then I won't be parking as I definitely won't have any change. The old locations for cash; coffee shops, newsagents, bars, have either been usurped by card as prices went up (bars mainly, though have you seen the price of magazines recently!) or contactless payment... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 19:51   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

There's still robbing charity collection boxes :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 19:59   Parking Eye - PeterS

While that all well and good for getting rid of loose change, it doesn't help if you haven't got any to start with! Thougn I think I read somewhere that some charities are now using contactless card machines as fewer people having cash on them reduces their 'take' from street collections... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:14   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

If no one has any loose change what has happened to the 28,996,000,000 coins valued at £4,011,054,000 that the Royal Mint say are in circulation? They can't all be down the back of the sofa. www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-mintage-figures Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:37   Parking Eye - Zero

>> If no one has any loose change what has happened to the 28,996,000,000 coins valued >> at £4,011,054,000 that the Royal Mint say are in circulation? >> >> They can't all be down the back of the sofa. 5 quids worth of them are in your car. the other £17,5000,000 are in everyone else's car, leaving £3,836,054,000 down the back of the sofa. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:22   Parking Eye - Bromptonaut

>> If I can't pay by phone or card then I won't be parking as I >> definitely won't have any change. The old locations for cash; coffee shops, newsagents, bars, have >> either been usurped by card as prices went up (bars mainly, though have you seen >> the price of magazines recently!) or contactless payment... Well there your are; different lifestyles. I used to accumulate change from lunchtime sarnies, rounds in the pub etc. Still do from visits to village shop and numerous other sub £10 x/actions shopping in town (Northampton) e.g. at Market. Keeps small businesses going and, symbiotically. keeps me in shrapnel for parking, like tomorrow where I'm on a re-supply mission to The Lad in Liverpool. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:40   Parking Eye - PeterS

But all those places (round here at least) take contactless debit cards now. Our butcher and greengrocer expect card payment. Even the window cleaner expects payment direct into his bank account...as does the cleaner. Sub £10 in a pub hasn't happened for a while unfortunately. Just two pints and some crisps takw you over a tenner. Order food and your at £30 minimum :( Though I did need cash for the Grand National sweepstake in the office :) Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:49   Parking Eye - sooty123

>> But all those places (round here at least) take contactless debit cards now. Our butcher >> and greengrocer expect card payment. Even the window cleaner expects payment direct into his bank >> account...as does the cleaner. Sub £10 in a pub hasn't happened for a while unfortunately. >> Just two pints and some crisps takw you over a tenner. Order food and your >> at £30 minimum :( Same here, we live in a small village and there's only one shop that doesn't take card. Even the petrol station with a pump attendant takes CCs. If we go to the 15 miles or so to the nearest market that's the time we need cash. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 21:00   Parking Eye - Zero

>> >>Even the window cleaner expects payment direct into his bank >> account.. offer him cash and he will snatch your hand off. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 21:05   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

And a discount. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 21:06   Parking Eye - PeterS

>> >> >> >>Even the window cleaner expects payment direct into his bank >> >> account.. >> >> offer him cash and he will snatch your hand off. >> Nope, tried that. He's not interested...direct payment only. I assume he has more lucrative cash jobs that are best kept off the books ;) Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 21:25   Parking Eye - Zero

>> Nope, tried that. He's not interested...direct payment only. I assume he has more lucrative cash >> jobs that are best kept off the books ;) He knows you are a tax inspector. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 21:28   Parking Eye - PeterS

I suspect that the hassle of him going back multiple times to to collect cash from houses means it's just not worth doing it that way. He'd rather have the 'guaranteed' business and bank payments than not have the business at all I suppose... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 21:33   Parking Eye - Skip

>> I suspect that the hassle of him going back multiple times to to collect cash >> from houses means it's just not worth doing it that way. He'd rather have the >> 'guaranteed' business and bank payments than not have the business at all I suppose... >> My window cleaner texts me the day before he is coming and I leave the cash under a plant pot n the back garden for him. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:26   Parking Eye - Old Navy

>> Well you say that, but where does one accumulate 'shrapnel' nowadays? Cash has completely disappeared >> from my day to day life >> Good luck during the next extended power cut, if you think there won't be one I admire your confidence. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:35   Parking Eye - PeterS

I've survived 43 years without needing cash in a power cut...I'll take a chance ;) Reply to this message | Report message       3

New Mon 20 Apr 15 21:04   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

Stuffed in the drawer somewhere they will have a manual credit card imprinter for just that eventuality. Remember those? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 21:13   Parking Eye - sooty123

>> Stuffed in the drawer somewhere they will have a manual credit card imprinter for just >> that eventuality. Remember those? >> Or a cheque, although I still use them a fair bit. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 21:27   Parking Eye - PeterS

Last encountered one of those at the Mariott (I think) in Cheshunt earlier this year - some sort of systems problem that was there when I checked in, and still there when I checked out the following morning. Prior to that hadn't seen one since I was a student! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 22:50   Parking Eye - No FM2R

>>Well you say that, but where does one accumulate 'shrapnel' nowadays? Its a good point. Here one needs a constant stream of 50 peso and 100 peso coins (about 5p and 10p respectively) to pay the people who "look after" your car when its parked (20p), tip the man in the gas station( 20p) tip the person who backs your shopping at the supermarket (15p) etc. etc. It used to be easy, but these days in a pain in the butt since who uses coins or gets change in coins anymore? Not me. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 23:07   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

I help at at a shop till from time to time and I would say that the vat majority of sub £10 purchases are paid in cash. We are still far from a cashless society. Personally I probably conform to that pattern. I normally have £20 in cash on me and always leave tips in cafes restaurants etc in cash as well as making small purchases that way. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Mon 20 Apr 15 19:55   Parking Eye - Armel Coussine

>> why not use the ash tray for coin storage? Because it's full of butts, roaches and ash? I repeat: put African women and London girls in the passenger seats. They've always got money. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 19:59   Parking Eye - Skip

>> >> why not use the ash tray for coin storage? >> Do cars still have ashtrays ? My last 4 haven't Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:04   Parking Eye - WillDeBeest

Mine has no lighters but there is a flip-top compartment that might have been designed as an ashtray. Takes my house keys neatly, and there's room for a few parking coins too, although it's fiddly to get them out. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 21:00   Parking Eye - Skip

>> Mine has no lighters but there is a flip-top compartment that might have been designed >> as an ashtray. Takes my house keys neatly, and there's room for a few parking >> coins too, although it's fiddly to get them out. >> I don't think that I have had a car yet where the storage compartments etc have been the right size for anything I have wanted to put in them. The 308 has a place in the dash in front of my right knee that is the right size for my iPhone & wallet but accelerate hard and they end up n the floor ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:07   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

"I repeat: put African women and London girls in the passenger seats. They've always got money." Not sure that would work here as in short supply. Norfolk girls wouldn't do; they never have any money Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:27   Parking Eye - Armel Coussine

>> Norfolk girls wouldn't do; they never have any money Sounds bad that. It occurs to me though that you're on the Essex side, where Chas and Dave come from. Give them a London girl every time. She's always got a pound. London for the enterprising is also a source of African women, thrifty and generous. Tsk. You people O... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Apr 15 20:43   Parking Eye - CGNorwich

I'm a London lad really. Born and brought up in East London. Still spend a lot of time up there. Will stock up with a few African women next time I'm in Manor Park. Reply to this message | Report message