A car, but with high ground clearance, and 4x4 for getting up farmers' muddy tracks. Replacing a Shogun, but as there's no longer a need to tow something cheaper will do well. Needs to be comfortable on a motorway. Which I am guessing rules out the Panda on the grounds that it's too small? (But Pandas might be bigger than the last one I travelled in about twenty years ago.)
The sort of car sought is maybe £7k, 50k miles, 5 years old.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Wed 1 Apr 15 at 11:44
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Aha! A question I can answer honestly and WdeB can't complain...
A Subaru Outback :-)
Or a Forester, which may be the last of the petrol ones at that age, depending on purchase price vs. running cost for the miles you intend to do in it. Whereas you'd get a diesel Outback from late 2008 onwards.
Joking aside, around 2010 the alternatives were the Volvo V70 Cross Country or the Audi Allroad, and both are considerably more expensive - new or used - than the Subaru. I'm not sure the other VAG 4x4 (Octavia Scout, Passat) or Vauxhaul Insignia 4x4 had come out yet.
The last model Panda was a fun wee car (we had one too, SWMBO did a two-hour motorway commute in it for a year) but she used always say she felt those two hours in it compared to the Legacy. The Panda 4x4 had the same 1.2 as ours, and supposedly had the slowest 0-60 time of any new car sold in the UK at the time.
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www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201501090044663
That sort of thing?
I'd go with Outback or Forester, both have 200-210mm clearance and bulletproof AWD but you'll not see a '10-plate for £7k
**EDIT** - I'd maybe give the above dealer a wide berth - not seeing Leather, Cruise, or as far as I can see it, a sunroof on that model.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 1 Apr 15 at 11:59
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I'll let it go this time, Gromit. Just don't get cocky.
}:---)
I think MM might be pleasantly surprised by the Panda on the motorway. The extra low-down weight of the 4wd gear might even help it to feel more stable at speed, even if it does blunt performance and fuel economy. I think there's an elevated FWD model too, if clearance is more important than driven wheels. I'd certainly be inclined to try one before ruling it out.
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>>Needs to be comfortable on a motorway
Drove my 07 2.0 auto Forester to Somerset & back last week to look at a blimming dog! .. 4 hours in the cockpit all told - felt like I could easily have carried on for another 4 hours if kneed bee.
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Does the Shogun need to be replaced?
Is having two vehicles practical?
And will anything less than an SUV or pickup have the clearance ypu need?
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Mr Mappy
I shall keep my eyes peeled on your behalf for any Outbacks or Foresters I see for sale privately in my part of rural N Yorks. They need to be fully specced though, leather, sunroof etc. think prices are colour sensitive because a friend selling a green Outback took forever, and it was very sensible money.
I don't think the diesels have been very well received, and as for mpg....I used to get around 32, same as my current 330, but then you know that!
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>>Does the Shogun need to be replaced?
It's ten years old, 120k, seems to be quite often in the garage. £500 road tax, and a 3.0 engine makes it thirsty for an anticipated 20k p.a. of motorway work. As it's no longer needed for towing, it's probably time for a change.
The farmers' drives are often at the far end of a motorway journey, so there is no point in two vehicles.
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Are the farmers' drives truly awful, or could a high-ish saloon car cope?
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Would something like a Yeti or even an Octavia Scout be high enough off the ground? I've nothing against Subarus but they've suffered from an incompetent importer for so long that there aren't as many to choose from secondhand as there ought to be.
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Might just get about get a Qashqai 4x4 for for that, but you'd fairly easily get a 2WD one. They're quite good really. If the track is challenging it might be ok with the right tyres on a 2WD. Ours has been no trouble anyway.
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OTOH, if the tracks are challenging, decent 4WD with M&S tyres will get you across anything any sane driver will want to attempt.
Used to take our old Forester down bog tracks to take the hounds for their daily walk no bother. Should imagine a Yeti 4WD would be capable of that too. Beware the "Greenline" versions though, they have reduced ride height compared to standard Skodas.
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Another vote for the Forester if you can afford the fuel bills. Apart from that it is all the car you will ever need.
My wife still misses hers and is saving hard to buy an Subaru XV in 18 months time.
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I passed an old-ish but immaculate Jag XKR on the motorway this afternoon. Shortly afterwards I pulled into a service area and by chance he parked next to me. It was a quite beautifully kept car.
Anyway I made some admiring remark and mentioned that I'd passed him a mile or so back. He then went on to say somewhat sheepishly that it was his pride and joy but that he couldn't afford to drive it fast because of its thirst.
Shame really. Felt a bit sorry for him. Didn't offer to buy him a sandwich though !
;-)
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>>saving hard to buy an Subaru XV in 18 months time
I'm quite jealous!
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>> >>saving hard to buy an Subaru XV in 18 months time
>>
>> I'm quite jealous!
>>
See this excellent owner's lengthy report..
tinyurl.com/krp8v34
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>>See this excellent owner's lengthy report..
tinyurl.com/krp8v34
Excellent indeed! - There's an orange one on Autotrader going for about £12k or so. I could actually live with orange :)
I do sooo much like the Boxer engines too, and the power output from my 2.0 XT auto certainly couldn't be described as flat. I'd go for the petrol engine in the XV too, if I had Lud's sort of money to fund the purchase.
I've had my Forester nigh-on 2 years now, and the only trouble I've had with it in that time is the drivers side folding door mirror can freak out now and again, so I gave it some ABH last week, thinking it will either sort itself out, of I will have to disconnect the electrickery. it appears to be okay now though.
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>>Are the farmers' drives truly awful, or could a high-ish saloon car cope?
You never know until you get there... It's one of those trade-offs, the more tractor-like the vehicle, the more accessible the world becomes, but the more expensive and uncomfortable it is to run.
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What about a Freelander? Although you'd have to go a bit older or a bit more money.
It'd probably work quite well for what you want.
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Actually one very seldom needs 4wd. Ordinary cars are driven with due caution and intelligence all over the third world, in particular Africa, and are only defeated by very deep wet mud... even that can often be driven around or charged through.
Takes an intelligent, observant driver who knows how to take it easy. Rushing in those conditions - dirt roads often deeply rutted and sloping every which way, although mercifully not always wet and slippery - can get you a smashed sump or a car on its roof in a surprisingly deep ditch.
Never happened to me or any car I was in, but I've seen it a good few times.
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>>Actually one very seldom needs 4wd.
In reality one very seldom needs a car. One can always walk. One doesn't really need electric windows, a car heater, a radio etc. etc.
Bit silly to do without it if its available though, since it does make life easier.
And I am often in a position where 4WD makes my life a *LOT* easier. And, on occasions, possible.
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>> And I am often in a position where 4WD makes my life a *LOT* easier. And, on occasions, possible.
I don't doubt it FMR. It's obvious that a decent 4wd makes the whole dirt-roads enterprise a lot less challenging. It makes it quite a lot more expensive too of course, something that doesn't rule rich people like us out but is beyond the reach of, say, a rural taxi driver in those sort of parts.
There are some nice 4wds even other than Range Rovers. The latest Defender with Coil springs must be like a stark Range Rover. Better suited to areas far from Sloane Street too.
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>>a rural taxi driver in those sort of parts.
I have seen Santiago taxis in some very strange places in the Andes. I've pulled few of them out of ditches as well!
School [mini] buses is another. Obviously reasonably good/safe vehicles, used to transport children to and from school, typically of a higher standard than could be afforded by the person driving them. At weekends the drivers tend to take advantage of them.
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>> I have seen Santiago taxis in some very strange places in the Andes. I've pulled few of them out of ditches as well!
Just so, they go everywhere. Stop at night if necessary, survey the terrain immediately ahead and proceed with due caution without, for example, losing momentum in a stupid place. It's a whole artistic repertoire in its way.
Helps to have a vehicle with a strong bodyshell and good suspension, erring on the firm side. There aren't all that many. A friend who lived in the hills on the Tanzania/Rwanda border had a Peugeot 404 pickup, but I suppose that's cheating a bit. The drivers I sympathise with have clean, bog-standard ordinary cars which they need skill and restraint to preserve, being as it were poor men.
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>> Helps to have a vehicle with a strong bodyshell and good suspension, erring on the firm side.
But nothing can defeat the effects of rust and rural bodyshops. I was once in the Seat of Honour next to the driver in a long-distance Peugeot 504 taxi in eastern Algeria, when a jet of mud shot through a hole in the floor straight up my trouserleg.
I wasn't best pleased but there was nothing to be gained by making a fuss. All the chortling locals in the other two or three rows of seats had known worse in their time. Some people deserve a bit of Schadenfreude innit?
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[A Freelander would] probably work quite well for what you want.
When it worked at all, that is.
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Freelander 1 was dodgy, mostly in the early days. Later 1s and newer are just fine.
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>> Freelander 1 was dodgy, mostly in the early days. Later 1s and newer are just
>> fine.
Nope - Still dodgy.
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>>Nope - Still dodgy.
Yours may well be, the two I've been through have been fine. Perhaps next time you should get some help buying?
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I used one about two years ago, we went through a deep puddle, water got into the unprotected wheel sensor connectors and brought up all sorts of error codes.
Suggest you check out other buyers who actually use them, they will soon avail you of a tale of transmission failures, transfer box failures, various electrical issues and engine failures.
The telling thing is that you wont find one in the Australian outback, they choose their 4x4s with care there, unreliable ones can kill you.
I'll leave your car buying advice where it belongs thanks.
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>>Suggest you check out other buyers who actually use them
You'd go some to use a 4x4 to a greater extent than I do. But hey, you used one in the rain and went through a puddle, who am I to doubt such extensive experience.
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>> >>Suggest you check out other buyers who actually use them
>>
>> You'd go some to use a 4x4 to a greater extent than I do. But
>> hey, you used one in the rain and went through a puddle, who am I
>> to doubt such extensive experience.
It broke, thats all the experience I need.
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>>It broke, thats all the experience I need.
One car broke once. There'd be very few cars in the world that wouldn't be damned under that measure.
In fact, you'd be on the scrap heap for a start.
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>> >>It broke, thats all the experience I need.
>>
>> One car broke once. There'd be very few cars in the world that wouldn't be
>> damned under that measure.
I used 1 car once, it broke once. Thats a 100% failure rate.
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>> You'd go some to use a 4x4 to a greater extent than I do. But
>> hey, you used one in the rain and went through a puddle, who am I
>> to doubt such extensive experience.
>>
For serious use it is Toyota. I have an aquintance who was a policeman in the Northern Territory of Australia, he would scoff at 4x4 users. He only ever used a police issue Toyota 2x4 ute (Pick up). These days some roads in Australia are 4x4 and truck only. The Mereenie Loop near Alice Springs is one that I have used.
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Freelander = Pants. Transmission wind up issues and generally unreliable.
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>> [A Freelander would] probably work quite well for what you want.
>>
>> When it worked at all, that is.
>>
Or maybe an Evoque...
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>> Or maybe an Evoque...
>>
Is Mappy a farmers hairdresser? :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 1 Apr 15 at 17:36
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How well do these various fashion accessories match the £7,000 budget? Once you're paying for style, there's less left for substance.
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>>Or maybe an Evoque...
Which is actually a Freelander with a different body. Lots of people love the way they look, including my wife. Me, not so much.
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>> Which is actually a Freelander with a different body. Lots of people love the way
>> they look, including my wife. Me, not so much.
The Lad says they look they've been sat on by an elephant. Roughly my take too.
Seem to have an appeal for export market though judging by number of LHD versions being trucked out of Halewood every time I go past.
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>> >> Which is actually a Freelander with a different body. Lots of people love the
>> way
>> >> they look, including my wife. Me, not so much.
>>
>> The Lad says they look they've been sat on by an elephant. Roughly my take
>> too.
>>
I too think they look like roadkill (squashed)
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>>Is Mappy a farmers hairdresser? :-)
No, it's not for me.
Wouldn't you have fun with a set of hair straighteners on a load of sheep.
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>> an Evoque...
>> Which is actually a Freelander with a different body. Lots of people love the way they look, including my wife. Me, not so much.
Evoque is all eyelashes and no trousers. Looks a right little minx. Bit embarrassing for a chap.
Freelander looked a POS from the start.
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I've got a problem with the Evoque. When they first came out I really didn't like it. Then, after a while they grew on me. Later, I went off them again but recently I find myself qualifying that view with a sort of well, they look kind of ok in dark grey I suppose...
Daren't get one though, imagine opening the curtains one morning and thinking "why the hell did I do that? "
Which has just reminded me of feeling like that on a particular Sunday morning a very long time ago and far far away...
;-)
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I cannot sit comfortably in the back, my head touches the roof. How dumb is that.
They're very popular, but I can't see it myself.
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>> Daren't get one though, imagine opening the curtains one morning and thinking "why the hell did I do that? "
Tsk. A case for Dr Zero's balance therapy couch I'm afraid.
Never apologise. Never explain. Be reasonable, but thuggish when necessary. Why waste time?
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>>on a particular Sunday morning a very long time ago and far far away...
I had a similar feeling, albeit a premonition, sat on a kerb with a glass of whisky at 10:30 on a Saturday morning. Longer ago and further away I suspect.
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I'll throw my Suzuki potato into the stew. This my second Grand Vitara and I really like it, TD auto. HDI mill.
I lunched with two girls from my old office yesterday (brag..brag )...Girls ??? Anyway, one lives on the isle of St Helena and took her auto Jimny with her all containered up. She reckons it's really capable and cheap to run over there with a lot of tracks and rough roads. Her hubby is a civil engineer and is building an airport so it copes with all sorts of terrain.
No motorways, of course and it might be too small for Mappy's hairdressing stuff....but hey !
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Jimny off-road is unstoppable.
On a motorway it is poo.
2 live axles and 4000rpm at 65mph - no ta :-)
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I hired a Vitara convertible on Cyprus twice. Exactly the same car two years apart. It was utterly brilliant off road in the Akamas. It was horrible on road at anything over 50 mph. In my opinion anyway.
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>>hired a Vitara convertible on Cyprus It was utterly brilliant off road in the Akamas. It was horrible on road at anything over 50 mph
The Grand Vitara is a different beastie though, and worth considering, as sed Ted.
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>> A car, but with high ground clearance, and 4x4 for getting up farmers' muddy tracks.
>>Needs to be comfortable on a motorway.
>> The sort of car sought is maybe £7k, 50k miles, 5 years old.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201408306985589
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What about an X3? I've only driven one once, but it seemed quite pleasant and it'd certainly do a farm track.
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I've mentioned this before but a very good pal of mine has an '06 X5. Bought new, and now over 200k completely trouble free miles. Only 30mpg. And I reckon he has been extremely fortunate, having used & abused it. I have heard, first hand, horror stories about their reliability, and would not be brave enough to buy one outside of warranty. Not that I could afford one inside of warranty.
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SWMBO's old 2006 X3 was pretty bullet-proof. Alas the 2011 new model that replaced it certainly wasn't. Big thumbs down. Probably outside the OP's price range anyway?
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Subaru Outback or a Forester, can't recommend them highly enough. Maybe an older RAV4 or a Suzuki Vitara if you can live with the image.
Subarus are massively popular in Australia where that ground clearance and occasional 4wd requirement matters enormously. IIRC the Outback has as much ground clearance as many 'full size' 4x4s like your Shogun and the Forester has even more (220mm). A lot of the crossover-4wds from Mazda, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai plus the Audi Qs, BMW Xs and their ilk are reputedly pretty compromised away from mettled roads as they lack ground clearance.
My Outback is a 2014 model and we chose it because we wanted something car-like and have a height restriction under our garage door. Fuel economy is fine for Australia with petrol at 60p ish a litre, not so sure of the UK. It's a very comfortable and easy car to drive and live with.
Looking at older models, I think the previous generation Outback was a lot prettier (OK, that's an understatement) and I know many people who run them and some who run even older ones from the 1990s. They seem to become family retainers..... I got a lift home in a colleague's y2000 Forester last night, they've had it from new and have no intention of changing it any time soon. It was rattle free and far from tatty at 250,000 Kms.
So, they're reliable, comfortable, capable and durable, perhaps a little heavy on the juice for the UK but I would still recommend them. Of course, I'd have previously recommended a VW DSG until it went wrong ;-)
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There's an awful lot of Toyota RAV4s on the road in ANZ. There must be something good about them?!
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Or an X Trail. My exex FiL has one on an'05 plate. He is getting on a bit, doesn't drive far, reverses into trees & stuff, and given the nature of his short trips am surprised he hasn't suffered any DPF problems. Maybe it doesn't have one.
Talking of Freelanders and their ilk, there is a large dealer in my vicinity, and I personally know 4 people with them. Two have recently bought new models, well, within the past six months, to replace older ones, so they must have been happy with them. One of the guys used to run a fleet of several quarry wagons so is pretty savvy when it comes to things mechanical.
Maybe their reputation is ill deserved, but not sure I would take the chance. Think I would stick with a RAV4, Forester or X Trail, given the £7k budget.
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Kia Sportage: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201503221958010
My old post code ;)
Last edited by: Dog on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 08:51
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Strictly 4 Subaru fan attics: youtu.be/t9O-uOKN8RE
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The girl seeking the vehicle has been pointed by a friend 'who knows about these things' towards a Duster. Seems that about 10k will get a nearly new one. Any thoughts? (After the Renault 21 I once had and she drove a few times I'm amazed she'll consider a Renault again...)
Subarus are rejected as being too long.
And any car that's done more than about 30k is rejected as being potentially unreliable.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 18:19
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A Duster MUST be a Romanian built one, the Indian built ones are serious rust buckets.
www.daciaforum.co.uk/forum/topic/706-do-you-have-a-rusty-duster/
This forum will give the change over date. I think but am not sure it was late last year.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 18:27
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More Duster rust info.
www.daciaforum.co.uk/2014/08/dacia-duster-rust-statement-updated-now-includes-extra-years-paint-protection/
It looks like August 2014 was the switch to the Romanian plant.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 19:04
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Having owner two of each, I'd have an older Subaru over a new Renault (sorry, Dacia) any day...
Edit: if she'll consider a nearly new Duster, why not a slightly less new Yeti?
Last edited by: Gromit on Thu 2 Apr 15 at 21:24
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Why not a Yeti?
"Looks like a disabled person's car."
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A neighbour is on his third Yeti. Loves them. I have agree though that there is something irritating about the styling. Can't put my finger on it. It's almost as if VAG decree that "a Skoda shalt not look too nice in case it looketh nicer than an Audi"
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Yeah I know someone that is on their third skoda in a row. Probably have another one next, I'd quite like a superb estate at some point.
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Going into the airport taxi business Sooty?
;-)
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>> Going into the airport taxi business Sooty?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
Maybe, but would a merc estate be a better choice? All those german taxi drivers can't be wrong.
;)
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Yes, you wouldn't want to be mistaken for a disabled person.
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>> Why not a Yeti?
>>
>> "Looks like a disabled person's car."
The good thing is, it comes with its own wide parking spaces near the entrances.
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Oh dear Mappie, looks like an uphill struggle for you. Best bow out now in case of future repercussions.
Caught up with my old pal late this afternoon, en route up to his relatives place in the Lakes. His X5 is now on 217k, still going well, but a shed ( a very scruffy shed) inside. Quite disgusting actually. I asked what the White marks were on the dash. Toothpaste he said. I didn't pursue the matter. Anyway, I offered him £2k for it but the offer was declined.
He could afford a new Cayenne, or Panamera, but like me is loathe to get rid of something which has been so reliable. I think he takes a certain 'pride'.... Is that the correct word, in driving around in a mobile shed. The total opposite of me. Yet we are bestest mates. Strange huh.
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Funny that, Leggy...My bestest mate and me are like that. He has a Plumber's Bentley estate and looks after it meticulously, polishing it every Sunday he can and valeting it. Even had the alloy wheels restored. Then he'll tackle his wife's new Picanto. Me ? motoring slob. Ginster's wrapper collector. I think there's a McD bag and shake container somewhere under the seat with the toolbox, pump and trolley jack. Couple of coats and a blanket thrown in the rear footwell. Mud and scratches all over the outside.
Crumb heaven down between the seats and the transmission tunnel...can't get a vac in there...never tried !
He's the same with his bike. We all once got up early when camping in France and polished it for him..he had a California then...lots of chrome.
I won't mention his caravan !
We get on fine though !
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I do not like places that I have to wipe my feet on the way out of, cars, houses, or anywhere.
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If you feel your feet sticking to the carpet on a home visit... DO NOT SIT ON THE SOFA!
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>> If you feel your feet sticking to the carpet on a home visit... DO NOT SIT ON THE SOFA!
That takes me back a bit. Time was I used to go into the gaffs of people of every sort up and down the country.
You can't smell poverty. But you can smell the sour reek of cheap furniture and carpets in a flat with too many children and overstretched or sluttish parents, and the very poor morale that results.
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Wipe your feet on the way out type of places. And then they all spark up with no regard to whether a visitor wishes to inhale second hand smoke. "Its my gaff, do as I like."
Been in a lot of those places over the years. Not forgetting dog carp all over as well.
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How important is it that the farmers tracks are successfully travelled? Just trying to work out what balance of mway comfort vs off road, how often are the muddy tracks travelled?
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Must admit, I regularly drive my RWD Merc ( with its "sports" body kit and low slung suspension ) up muddy unmade forest tracks to off road biking opportunities. Copes fine if you take it easy.
I'd have thought anything with a bit of clearance and decent tyres would cope no matter how many or indeed which wheels were driven.
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>> Must admit, I regularly drive my RWD Merc ( with its "sports" body kit and
>> low slung suspension ) up muddy unmade forest tracks to off road biking opportunities. Copes
>> fine if you take it easy.
And of course, you don't fall out and keep squashing your nadgers, glad you have grown up at last and leave the tough stuff to the boy.
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He is getting quite good in fairness. Nearly as good as "The Master" !
;-)
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>> anything with a bit of clearance and decent tyres would cope no matter how many or indeed which wheels were driven.
Quite Humph, as I said at the beginning of the thread, 4wd is nearly always unnecessary. The driver just needs the skills, intelligence and restraint of a third world taxi driver. It's clear that you possess them, as I do up to a point.
Good thread this one.
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The Fiat Sedici is exactly the same car as the SX4, but is usually cheaper. My brother has one, and there is room for his family of five even though it looks a bit narrow to me.
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>>How important is it that the farmers tracks are successfully travelled?
Work is to visit remote farm tracks often outside mobile phone signal in remote corners of Northern England (it's not remote corners of Scotland, where the only sensible solution would be a Hilux). Thus it is a daily occurrence and vitally important. That said, they are tracks, not fields.
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Whoever said that the Yeti looks like a disabled person's car was thinking of the Roomster. The Yeti looks like a typical SUV - I'd say functional rather than ugly.
I'm another who has had three Skodas in a row (Octavia vRS estates) - although next time I'll be looking for similar performance with a softer ride to keep SWMBO happy. A recent test drive in a Volvo V60 was impressive: even though the demonstrator was in R-Design spec, the ride was still a lot more comfortable than mine.
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Here's what I drove when I worked in in Brazil back in the 80s. Not the actual car but identical. It's a Ford Landau. 3 speed auto, some kind of huge inefficient engine and our one ran on sugar cane alcohol. Used to smell of boiled sweets.
Anyway, it performed very well up country on unmade roads which could get pretty damn muddy when it rained. Brazilian rain is quite full on sometimes...
;-)
camargoveiculos.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/foto-221.jpg
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Yesterday I drove my RWD Merc ( with its "sports" body kit and low slung suspension ) over the Hardknott pass. Its ground clearance was fine, but its short suspension travel saw me almost come unstuck a couple of times. It cocked one wheel in the air on the most cambered bends; only the traction control keeping it moving.
I bottled out of attempting the Wrynose road immediately afterwards :(
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That's a worry I have about the moderately sported-up Golfs and BMWs I'm considering: how much of a rutted cricket club drive, or speedbumpy car park would it take to seriously inconvenience or even damage one? I suppose I'd have to include such hazards on a test route before deciding.
Last summer we rented a house in the Cevennes that had a long, steep, unmade drive. The grass up the middle brushed the underside of my (lowered by 15mm from standard because it's a cutting-edge Avantgarde) LEC but that's all. I wonder how well a lower car would have coped.
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Deal's been done: brand new ASX on the never never.
Local dealer offered such a brilliant deal that no other dealer was able to come within 2k. "I think he's done his maths wrong." "That price doesn't make sense."
Salesman at local dealer subsequently tried to ask new owner out on a date...
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>> Salesman at local dealer subsequently tried to ask new owner out on a date...
>>
And?
The suspense is unbearable:-)
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The point is presumably the salesman underpriced in the hope of 'other' benefits...
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Or that particular car took him over a retrospective discount threshold.
Or someone had already paid, and lost, a deposit on that car.
Etc. Etc.
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Let's hope it was one of NoFM's; discounting for personal advantage would get me fired.
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>> Let's hope it was one of NoFM's; discounting for personal advantage would get me fired.
>>
Only if you got caught.
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>>discounting for personal advantage would get me fired.
Only if you did something untoward or concealed / lied about what you were doing.
Surely all salesman will discount to increase sales. Surely all salesman get compensated due to amount of sales.
Thus, any discounting could be said to be to the personal advantage of the salesman.
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UK anti bribery laws are some of the most draconian in the world. When an occasional client gives me a bottle for a job well done I have to report it to my boss before accepting it. If I don't theoretically I could be jailed.
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And if the bottle is empty and broken and brandished above the client's head...?
}:---)
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Stockport can be rough, but not that rough! :)
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Yes it can Al....I was in Brinnington on Monday talking to some knuckle draggers.
What a dump !
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Ah, yes, Brinny. We in verdant Hazel Grove try to forget it exists, lol.
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A walk along the River Goyt to Reddish Vale (and beyond) from opposite the big Tesco Express is rather nice if you forget Brinnington is near by.
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Wanted: 4x4 car with high ground clearance - Gromit
