I have just got my first automatic car after 23 years in a manual (no other choice on the model I wanted)
Anyway, in the main I love the auto box (its a ZF 8 speed), however, I have seen on here and other places about leaving your foot on the brakes when waiting in queues of traffic etc.. In an auto what is the "done thing"? I cant see that putting it into P is particularly beneficial, and also my car's stop start is triggered by how hard you press on the brake pedal, so if you are going to be there for a period of time you press harder and the engine will stop...!
I dont want to dazzle those behind but unsure what to do....?
|
P is for Park, so keep it for that purpose.
I'm three years into my automatic career, and I do one of three things:
- for a short stop, like waiting at a stop line, use footbrake only, with or without the Brake Hold facility, which still shows brake lights;
- for a longer stop, like a light I've seen turn red, use parking brake (MB pedal job) and release footbrake, so no brake lights;
- when I feel like it, push the selector into N; my car allows this (and back to D) without a foot on the brake. This is more about saving fuel by reducing the load on the engine in a stop I can tell is going to last a minute or two.
Others here will tell you there's no need for any but the first of these - and there are times of course when there's a safety benefit to leaving the brake lights showing - but there's no mechanical reason not to use the equivalent of the handbrake-neutral you'd use in a manual.
Ah - remembered Start-Stop! If you want the benefit of the stop, you may be doomed to holding the pedal. Systems vary; I'm guessing this is the BMW one.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Tue 3 Mar 15 at 09:23
|
THanks for the reply, I also have the N but havent tried it yet. It also has an electronic handbrake so I will investigate this.
Im not overly bothered about the stop start to be honest...
Its a Maserati Ghibli
|
>> Its a Maserati Ghibli
!? Tell us more, please :)
|
>> Its a Maserati Ghibli
>>
Yes, more details please. I assume a Ghibli III and not one from the '70's?
A great looking 4 door - coupe style with long sweeping bonnet - lovely.
So V6, petrol or diesel? Colour? the Blue is striking, Black with Red leather... mmmnnn, so many combo's I love in this car.
The Diesel does seem particularly efficient (on paper anyway, not so much when you start really using it, I suppose) for the performance on offer. The twin turbo petrol 'S' model I think is 5 seconds to 62
|
I assume a Ghibli III and not one from the '70's?
I suppose engines that cut out at the lights were common enough in the 70s; just the instant restart that wasn't guaranteed.
};---)
|
>> >> Its a Maserati Ghibli
>>
>> The Diesel
You're kidding! Well, you learn something new every day :o
|
|
Apparently it's progress... or something.
|
>> >> >> Its a Maserati Ghibli
>> >>
>> >> The Diesel
>>
>> You're kidding! Well, you learn something new every day :o
>>
Link to Autotrader:-
tinyurl.com/qds2zkb
|
>> unsure what to do
What does the handbook advise?
|
The only real reference to it was wrt to the stop start (thats how I found out about that feature!)..
I dont suppose it is any different to any automatic, just I am not used to it particularly.
|
I treat automatic in same way as manual for brief stop. I just put it to N if anticipated wait is longer than few seconds.
|
I keep in drive and just use the footbrake. If it's a long stop then I might wrench the handbrake on but keep it in drive. I rarely use N unless it's going to be a really long stop...like some road works lights.
I guess city driving is a lot different to rural stuff. Stop at any city traffic lights and everybody has the brake lights on.
|
>> I dont want to dazzle those behind
Answered your own question there ;-)
Nice wheels, pop some pictures up. One of the cars on my lottery win list.
|
Its a Ghibli diesel V6. Its utterly lovely!
It replaced an Alfa 156 GTA which had 156k miles on it when I traded it in.
Its quick in a serene sort of way. Its also good on fuel, currently averaging around 41mpg around town which isnt too shabby at all for such a car
|
It is the blue one, the lighter of the 2, but its not a light blue (if that makes sense!).
It has black leather and 20" alloys...
|
Sounds lovely.
The GTA too.
|
Very nice looking car; saw one at a drinks reception at Bonhams last year - seemed very 'affordable' for a Maserati.
Constantly moving from D to P or N will wear out your autobox. Don't do it. (Can't remember whether it was NC or Aprilia who said this with certainty.)
|
It was NC, but first define 'constantly'. Leaving D engaged for long periods while stationary is creating tension (and heat) elsewhere in the drivetrain. Moving to N relieves this, so there's a balance to strike.
I take the view that N is there for a purpose. I often have to queue down a long hill - happened on Saturday when the sunshine brought the trippers out of hibernation to visit my honeypot home town - and the combined effect of gravity and the car's pull against the brake when in D feels all wrong. I know my movements are determined by traffic light phases at the bottom of the hill, so I can select N knowing it'll be 60-90 seconds before I need to move again.
Better still, of course, in this situation, would be Start-Stop, which would remove the tension at source, but I can't see the 21st-centuryphobes here admitting that!
|
|
I drove a Toyota hybrid recently. The contrast with the Yeti 1.8 petrol we have was quite marked: the Yeti sounded quite noisy at first, after the uncanny silence of the Auris about town. It was also quite nippy when required. Its called an e-CVT but it doesn't have belts! No clutches or TC to fry.
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Mon 9 Mar 15 at 11:44
|
|
Why do so many drivers keep their feet on the brakes whilst stopped? Irritating for the driver who has to put up with glaring brake lights in the dark.
|
>> Irritating for the driver who has to put up with glaring brake lights in the dark.
Do you look directly at the sun? If no, then why look directly at someone else's brake lights. Plenty of other places to avert your eyes and still still be able to see when the vehicle in front pulls away.
|
I wait for long times (obvious) with handbrake on in N.
For short delays, footbrake and D..
Torque convertor takes the strain...
|
|
Still find it irritating Vx .Al you have to do is put your handbrake on or put the lever on P.
|
|
Can anybody tell me where this habit has come from? I don't want to go on about this but what is so difficult putting the handbrake on.
|
>> Can anybody tell me where this habit has come from? I don't want to go
>> on about this but what is so difficult putting the handbrake on.
>>
It's not difficult to avert your gaze either!
|
>> or put the lever on P.
Putting the lever into P would result in the reverse lights briefly coming on, and then coming on again when selecting D, as well as the brake lights because the brake pedal needs pressing to get the lever out of P. But if you'd sooner have a variety of lights and a short disco show rather than just my brake lights then who am I to argue ;)
|
|
Do what makes you happy Vx.As long you don't show your bum I wont flash my lights at your rear window.
|
Putting the lever into P would result in the reverse lights briefly coming on.
Pretty sure that's not generally true; certainly isn't with mine, any more than Manatee's notion that the headlights flash off when moving the master switch from Auto to On. It's not a simple electrical switch but a mouse click to the computer, which then pauses to see if you're stopping or just passing through.
Anyway, P is strictly for parking, and that's the reason not to use it at a red light. D to N and back, on the other hand, is just a nudge; no button to press, no need to touch the brake. It's almost as if the gearbox was designed with that in mind.
|
|
Wait.. My auto has a handbrake?
|
"Wait.. My auto has a handbrake?"
Apparently so. But I always check in the manual before before I take it for its MOT.
|
>> "Wait.. My auto has a handbrake?"
Hmmm.........Difficult to find in a hurry due to the duster, sweet papers, Ginsters wrappers, folding brolly, gloves, CDs and screen scraper piled on top of it !
There might be a rat in there as well....really must valet it sometime......maybe next year.
|
>>Pretty sure that's not generally true; certainly isn't with mine
I don't know about your car, but it is generally true.
I take mine out of Drive when I'm maneuvering or getting out of the car, not at lights and other stops - so the rest of the time I plant my foot on the brake. I don't stare at other people's lights, I don't expect them to stare at mine. But if they do, not my problem.
My retinas remain unseared.
Girls.
|
>> My retinas remain unseared.
Foot in both camps. Not usually bothered but just occasionally darkness/rain scatter can make high level LED's a tad irritating. Not enough to get exited over though.
Long time since I drove an auto, probably Mum's 2000/X Clio and it's several years since he gave up driving and got rid. Thought I remember being able to move the T bar selector between D & N without complication or going via reverse but maybe I'm wrong.
|
>>between D & N without complication
You can, its between D & P that you have to go through R.
|
>>Plenty of other places to avert your eyes and still still be able to see when the vehicle in front pulls away.
I find this is OK except for the new S class MB ( and maybe some other new MBs) which has ridiculously bright stop lights.
I have to put my hand in front of my eyes to block the lights out.
I do not want to be looking sideways :-)
|
MB now say
"Considerate to others: tail lights with automatic intensity control
Mercedes-Benz vehicles are considerate to other road users also thanks to the so-called multi-level functionality of the tail lamps, with which another world first was achieved in the E-Class and now also in the S- and C-Class. With this, the brake lights and indicators are operated with varying light intensity, depending on the driving situation and ambient lighting (day/night).
If the Mercedes driver presses the brake pedal while stopped at traffic lights at night, for instance, the brightness of the brake lights will be automatically dimmed to avoid dazzling anyone behind. The light distribution is broadened to ensure the lights do not become too dim and that they continue to fulfil all legal requirements, of course.""
Closest you can get to sorry ?
|
"Why do so many drivers keep their feet on the brakes whilst stopped?"
Because if you don't, the car will creep forward and hit the car in front.
|
If this was my Maserati, then I'd first check what it says in the handbook. And possibly with Maserati too. I would imagine you are told you can hold it on the brake - so why not check if you can put the electronic parking brake on? Does that keep the brake lights on?
I know my Audi A3 S-Tronic is happy to have the EPB on when stationary without showing brake lights. But I think a Mercdes Benz shows brake lights with the EPB on when the engine is running.
|
A lot of faffing in this thread.
In the first place, RTFM to avoid abusing the transmission. Dazzle from brake lights is relatively unimportant. What's more important is wear, transmission fluid degradation and waste of energy caused by leaving an auto in Drive for too long with the brakes applied.
But it's silly to be too insistent on that. Autos are designed to be held briefly in drive and it does them no harm. The whole issue is a matter of time and timing. If you're going to be there for more than say fifteen seconds the sensible thing to do is engage neutral (but then to be alert for when the traffic moves, so that you don't get in the damn way). If it's a very short time there's no need for it. Autos are convenient like that.
|
|
I think he only asked the question so he could show off about the new Maserati outside his house :-) Just saying. Sounds a nice car.
|
<< Dazzle from brake lights is
>> relatively unimportant.
>>
But only if you are in front of the t*** with the brake lights on :-)
Last edited by: Mike H on Mon 9 Mar 15 at 21:46
|
|
I still say PR just wanted us to know he had a Maserati Ghibli as his new car. Quite a step up from an Alfa Romeo 156 GTA.
|
I always keep my foot on the brake in an auto. Start-stop doesn't work if you take your foot off the brake. Have yet to be dazzled by brake lights so I doubt anyone will suffer mine, and if so, they should stop further back or get their eyes checked.
Putting it in P may surprise the car behind as your reversing lights come on...
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Mon 9 Mar 15 at 22:59
|
>> I always keep my foot on the brake in an auto. Start-stop doesn't work if you take your foot off the brake.
Works fine in my Audi. Enable parking brake and take feet away from pedals. Engine stays off. Car stays stationary.
Who would put an auto in park at the lights?
|
I still say PR just wanted us to know he had a Maserati Ghibli...
And I don't think that's true; he didn't mention it until I asked if it was a BMW. He was quite keen to let us know it wasn't one of those.
};---)
|
|
Maybe not. But with an EPB I don't see why he didn't RTFM or do the obvious and use it. Auto disengage etc.
|
As was said I didnt mention what it was until asked ;)
I tried the "N" last night with the electronic handbrake.... It was ok for a long wait at the lights but as said, the stop start wont work with foot off the brake.
|
>> Better still, of course, in this situation, would be Start-Stop, which would remove the tension
>> at source, but I can't see the 21st-centuryphobes here admitting that!
Personally I love stop-start. It took me about forty seconds to get used to it (unlike the car's owner who deliberately sits at traffic lights with foot on clutch in order to prevent the stopping and starting). Do they do it on autos too these days?
|
|
Yes. I've had it in a petrol BMW (barely perceptible) a Golf GTI (more intrusive but still easy) and a Mercedes C220 diesel where the contrast between the silence of Stop and the awful racket of Start was too much. All autos, though, and all easy enough to use.
|
>> Personally I love stop-start.
Personally I hate start stop. Turn it off when ever possible.
|
>> Personally I hate start stop. Turn it off when ever possible.
Never tried it and don't have a need. Even when I was driving to the station everyday it would have been of little benefit - too few urban miles.
If OTOH I lived where Mapmaker does I'd probably find it improved my consumption quite a bit.
Well I'd give it a try anyway.
|
Driving to the station every day it is unlikely to be working anyway, all the cars I have had with it need to be warmed up and without the morning load of heater fan, HRW etc before the stop start begins to work.
Something I have had on cars for the last 9 years and don't think about it any more, it's just there and does what it is supposed to.
I cannot think of a single "gadget" I have had on a car that I have ever "hated", but then there are very few I miss when I am driving something without.
|
>> Personally I hate start stop. Turn it off when ever possible.
+1.
It's just a gimmick to falsify emission figures to get a lower RFL. In the real world the MPG figures of non stop/start cars and those with stop/start aren't much different.
|
On the V70 the electronic hand brake is on the dash to the right under the lights on/off switch which is a faff to reach forward to apply / take off, so I tend to leave the car in 'D' at the lights / junctions because of this.
I know a few people get terribly wound up by people in front being sat on the brake pedal with the glare coming off the car, but it must be said that does not bother me (although cars with fog lights on when not needed (especially front ones) use to drive me demented. I have softened on that stance now....).
|
+1.
It's just a gimmick to falsify emission figures to get a lower RFL.
Seems to be arithmetic practice day at the Vauxhall Owners' Club.
I reckon my non-Start Stop-equipped diesel wastes about a litre of fuel each time I have to wait in the summer queue to get into my town. Much of this time the car is stationary with the selector in N. If a device that prevents this waste is a gimmick then I don't see how.
As for 'lower RFL', what makes you suppose global corporations take any more than a passing interest in the taxation policies of one little market? To suggest they engineer their vehicles to the requirements of HM Treasury is daft.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Tue 10 Mar 15 at 13:45
|
|
National Grid altered their entire car scheme to be oriented around the emission RFL bands.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 10 Mar 15 at 14:05
|
>> As for 'lower RFL', what makes you suppose global corporations take any more than a
>> passing interest in the taxation policies of one little market?
To the extent that features are added, or removed to make them more popular to company car buyers.
If you add all the company car drivers in the UK together, they are the single most competitive buyer in europe.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 10 Mar 15 at 14:11
|
So PR, when you have your foot on the brake and put the EPB on, if you lift your foot off the brake it starts the engine? My Audi only restarts the engine when I take my foot off the brake when the EPB is not on. And if it is on, dabbing the brake and releasing pressure restarts the engine. I sometimes do that when I've seen the light change.
As for fuel consumption and stop-start. Experimented last week due to the same journey multiple times. Somehow in manual mode I got the computer saying 46mpg in one direction (3.5 miles). And in manual mode there is no stop-start or coasting.
I also realise putting the gearbox in sport mode disabled stop-start as well. Holds higher revs so more petrol used.
|
So
>>I still say PR just wanted us to know he had a Maserati Ghibli as his new car. Quite a step up from an Alfa Romeo 156 GTA.
Is different from letting us all know how you have been mortgage free for last millennium and how you have managed to avoid paying tax on a company car and ended up with an Audi A3 saloon is a victory !!!
Just saying like...
|
|
I'm not sure what it is about the A3 saloon. I want to like it, and it's a neat looking car. Much like the original A4. But my Mother's buying one to replace her Golf (Mark 6? a '10' plate anyhow) - a 1.4 TSi no less. Manual I expect - she's never had an auto and for all our sakes now is not the the time to start ;) But, if she wants one it's not the car for us...:p
|
|
I'm pretty sure that the auto BMWs I've had as hire cars do not remain off in stop/start mode if the electronic parking brake is applied. But I might be wrong - I seldom use the parking brake in an auto. In fact I almost never use the foot operated parking brake in my Merc, but opening the door while the engine is off in stop/start mode definitely triggers a restart of the engine!!
|
|
Having driven the A3 e-tronic 204 PS 1.4 petrol with all sort of clever gubbins I'm looking at a 2.8 twin-turbo cab. My wife has an eco booster so I reckon between us we are even unless you want to count the evil two wheelers we have between us.
|
>> Personally I love stop-start. It took me about forty seconds to get used to it
>> (unlike the car's owner who deliberately sits at traffic lights with foot on clutch in
>> order to prevent the stopping and starting). Do they do it on autos too these
>> days?
>>
^^ Wot he sed.
I've perfected the technique of stop-start to the extent that in slow traffic and a gentle downhill slope I can go for nearly a mile without the engine running. Battery supplies power steering and brake servo, everyone happy.
|
>> I've perfected the technique of stop-start to the extent that in slow traffic and a
>> gentle downhill slope I can go for nearly a mile without the engine running. Battery
>> supplies power steering and brake servo, everyone happy.
>>
Do you adopt the same ideas in your day job ? :-)
|
>> Do you adopt the same ideas in your day job ? :-)
>>
I would hope he can drive his day job motor for a few miles having fed it it some birds. :)
|
>>I've perfected the technique of stop-start to the extent that in slow traffic and a gentle downhill slope I can go for nearly a mile without the engine running. Battery supplies power steering and brake servo, everyone happy.>>
It's 21 years since I first drove a stop/start car (a VW Golf) and they frankly annoy me.
However, I've discovered whilst driving my best mate's Skoda Octavia estate automatic that if you brake reasonably gently to a halt, perhaps coming up to traffic lights, the engine doesn't cut out....
|
>> if you brake reasonably gently to a halt, perhaps coming up to traffic lights, the engine doesn't cut out....
Put the DSG in sport mode and I bet it does not cut out either. Mine doesn't at least.
And mph was not that much different to economy that does stop-start and coasting.
|
>> It's 21 years since I first drove a stop/start car (a VW Golf) and they
>> frankly annoy me.
We are in the habit of turning off the stop/start as soon as we've started the engine, don't even think about it now it's just part of the routine.
|
|
I usually select neutral and apply handbrake if it looks like a long delay. I'm a bit sensitive to the starter clutch working away on the CVT box, while stationery and in "D"
|
Automatic car - waiting with brakes on? - WillDeBeest
