Today many cars have auto headlights, auto wipers, auto dimming mirrors, you can get park assist, lane guidance etc.
Now while I have auto lights, auto wipers and auto dimming mirrors the only one that works faultlessly is the auto dimming mirror.
Auto lights come on too early. There are times after dawn and before dusk when even the streetlights have not come on when the only thing that limits what you can see as you drive is the glare from the headlights of other vehicles.
Auto wipers are wither too frequent or not frequent enough.
When I tried park assist it tried to park in a space occupied by another vehicle.
I think automation is turning us into careless and incompetent drivers who don't know or care what they are doing.
Now how far would you go and why:
1. Auto Dim mirrors
2. Auto wipers
3. Auto Lights
4. Automatic Dimming of headlights
5. Speed limiter
6. Park Assist
7. Lane guidance.
8. Full auto as Google car.
And it you are prepared to go so far why won't you accept a fully automatic car?
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>> I think automation is turning us into careless and incompetent drivers who don't know or
>> care what they are doing.
>>
I agree with that, one to four are useful, and would add cruise control.
My auto lights and wipers have adjustable sensitivity.
Lights are more about being seen than seeing where you are going, if you are being dazzled maybe your eyes are not adequate for driving. All cars will have DRLs before long.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 6 Feb 15 at 08:34
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Auto lights come on too early.
I'd say the opposite; I leave the LEC's lights in Auto as a useful bit of idiot-proofing, especially as my drive home begins in a well-lit car park, but I often override them to On because I'm aware that a silver car, even such a big one, can easily blend into the background on a grey day. I don't think I ever override them to Off.
ON has a point; too many drivers seem to struggle to see against the light - as most extremely when the M4 grinds to a halt as it curves into the sun on a winter morning or a summer evening. Clean windscreen, outside and in, and antireflective coating on glasses, if you wear them, are basic essentials to safe driving.
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What the hell is a LEC? I've avoided asking for yonks. Gonna regret this I know:-0)
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>> What the hell is a LEC? I've avoided asking for yonks. Gonna regret this I
>> know:-0)
>>
Large Estate Car I believe Martin.
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Strictly speaking it's slang for LGEC
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>> Strictly speaking it's slang for LGEC
To expand a little.
Stop me if I am wrong.
Mercedes-Benz E type estate car.
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Late edit.
I should have said E class.
Last edited by: Duncan on Wed 11 Feb 15 at 06:58
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>> Stop me if I am wrong.
>>
>> Mercedes-Benz E type estate car.
>>
>>Late edit. I should have said E Class
Often driven by a local dude who wouldn't be seen dead in a Passat.
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Oh I like that ! I may decide in future when asked what my car is to casually and ever so slightly deliberately mention that it's an E Type...
;-))
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All of the above please. Would also like auto-cleaning and auto-fuelling.
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>> All of the above please. Would also like auto-cleaning and auto-fuelling.
Get a chauffeur.
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Of course he is, CG - but would you really want to return to your car and find Z leaning against it?
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Perhaps you're right AC. I' ll ask that nice lady who drives the lorries instead.
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AC? I'm flattered - unless you're looking at my shoes.
};---)
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We wouldn't last 5 minutes CG, you're pedantry would be trying to tell me how to swear with panache!
Pat
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I think it is time to accept that many folks treat their cars as white goods.
They just want it available and that is about the limit of their interest.
I think the existing options need sorting first KISS before the clever bits.
Indicators positioned where they are not hidden in light clusters ?
When things go wrong are idiot lights enough or should the car tell you what is the problem / action required ?
The Citroen SM had a very very large red light with the word STOP on it.
( That does not mean stop immediately even if you are in lane three of the motorway)
A good try but not idiot proof!
On the basis that few will not look under the bonnet even though new drivers have pointed at the dipstick ( if one still exists ) is it not time to say to most "Forget the oily bits. The car will tell you if if it is sick. "
To me there is one item that it's historic positioning should be changed. IIRC to fill the windscreen washer bottle you have to lift the bonnet. Have a flap like the fuel filler.
With that change by far the vast majority need never lift the bonnet.
(There is little the average guy can do with the oily bits so keep you nose out) .
The downside ? RTFM / education.
Tyre Pressure Monitors are being fitted at last
www.techeurope.co.uk/tech/news/view/35/European-legislation-on-TPMS-imminent
I think a few more sensors in the engine area might be useful.
Earlier warnings of problems.
Oil level nearing the low mark. Battery condition.
Windscreen washer fluid level. I KNOW when it is empty so warn me before that.
I like graphic displays of lights working/failed and also doors/boot open.
Sort the basics before hands free driving.
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>> The Citroen SM had a very very large red light with the word STOP on
>> it.
Carried on as a Cit feature until very recently, present on both BXs, Xantia and IIRC the 205. Did what it was meant to on both BX and Xant when a slight LHM leak allowed reservoir level to fall to minimum.
My Berlingo has one too. Only seen it on for one fault - the low brake fluid warning occasionally give a spurious warning. As well as the light there is an alerting chime.
Not sure if Mrs B's B (current model) still has it.
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Still on our 08 C4 Picasso. It comes on if you run out of oil pressure whilst bowling along the M8!!
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>> The Citroen SM had a very very large red light with the word STOP on it.
For those not familiar with the SM
tinyurl.com/pxhlakp
(I did say a very very large red light)
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>> Of course he is, CG - but would you really want to return to your
>> car and find Z leaning against it?
pffftttt - the cap maketh the man. Like all snotty servants the real question is "would i want to drive for you"
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I like automatic air conditioning and automatic transmission. Auto dim mirrors are harmless but I don't miss them since the Scorpio went in 2002, the last time I had them.
Speed limiter I would use.
The rest I don't care for.
Auto wipers are worse than manual when, as they often do, they get it wrong (usually very big drops, or fine spray).
Auto lights, as I have said previously, simply don't work and should be illegal. The argument for them is that they prevent people driving round in the dark with no lights, a problem which will solve itself as DRLs become the norm (though they should also be on the rear).
Self-driving car? I'm all in favour, for everybody else.
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Speed limiter/cruise control possibly but wouldn't go out of way for any of the others. Auto lights/wipers I would override. The wipers on 'lingo that increase the interval wipe frequency with speed are a pain. The only way to cope with fine drizzle at 60mph is to keep flicking the lever for a single sweep.
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>> with speed are a pain. The only way to cope with fine drizzle at 60mph
>> is to keep flicking the lever for a single sweep.
The Lancer has 5 manually selected sweep interval settings. One of those always fits the bill.
The Automation feature I hate is the extra single "dribble" wipe after you have used the screen washers. Its rarely needed and always comes at the wrong time.
In fact I hate washers and wipers linked. I want to be able to control wash and control wipe separately.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 6 Feb 15 at 10:26
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>>In fact I hate washers and wipers linked. I want to be able to control wash and control wipe separately.
Back in the 70s I fitted my 1600E with such a commercially made control.
Standard fitting on the E was a push button to pump washer fluid.
I added a second bottle with an electric pump. The control was a little box with a switch - washers/ wipers / both and a little knob to adjust the rate.
This gave me a vast range of options far to many to list.
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Volvo
Auto:
Lights,
Wipers,
Dipped Beam,
Parking,
Transmission,
Heating and heated seats
Heated Rear Window (if ambient temp is below 3 degrees)
City guard,
Active Cruise
Speed limiter
Lane Depart
I'd bin
Lights,
Wipers,
Parking
Transmission
Speed Limiter
Lane Depart
Active Cruise and City Guard is superb in heavy traffic,
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in addition to the above a electronic manual that shows where the fault is and how to fix it step by step, like when you have a paper jam in a printer it will show you how to deal with it by step by step pictorial guide.
car automatic adapting to the speed limit in a 30 mph zone by linking with sat navs this also be switched off, so no speed camera fine.
A finger tip scanner to allow the user to operate his vehicle, also sensors to detect heart rate, eye movement this to allow the car to operate on automatic driver less mode, can be useful if the driver is drunk under the influence of drugs, or havin a hear attack, if a hear attack is detected then the car will alert emergency services.
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Volvo have almost got there Sajid...washer fluid is low at the moment. Every time you start up the instrument panel shows a graphic of photographic quality showing where the filler neck is located under the bonnet...damned clever.
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None of them, thank you.
Automation went too far about 50 years ago with automatic chokes.
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"None of them, thank you."
Me neither - I've never owned or driven a car with any of those auto-specs - not even cruise control :-(
Having said that, I didn't really see the point of electric windows until I actually had a company car equipped with them. I guess ,when you've cut your driving-teeth on motorbikes for essential transportation, you are grateful just to keep dry.
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Heated seat, electric seat with memory and heated front screen is all I ask for.
Once I'm warm and comfy I'm perfectly capable of doing all the rest for myself.
Pat
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I had auto lights and wipers on my Megane and I hated them both. The auto lights were, I felt, dangerous as if I went into a brief area of shade on a sunny day they would come on then go off again when I emerged into the sun seconds later. To someone waiting to come out of a side road up ahead, that could have been interpreted as an 'after you' flash. So I turned them off and worked them manually, like people have been doing for years. The wipers were useless as they'd flap away frantically if a tiny drop of water landed on the screen yet would stubbornly refuse to move if the windscreen was covered in water. Sadly, I couldn't turn them off.
Aside from transmission, climate control, cruise control and dipping mirrors I don't really see the need from the creeping automation of cars. Take too much of the driving task away from the chump in the front and it becomes boring leading to a loss of attention. The more we have to do, the safer a driver we are.
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I am absolutely amazed that no car manufacturer has fitted auto turn indicators, I would have thought that a company like BMW would have them even if only as an option.
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>> I am absolutely amazed that no car manufacturer has fitted auto turn indicators, I would
>> have thought that a company like BMW would have them even if only as an
>> option.
Well they would would for about 60% of non-BMW drivers, who indicate at the same time as they perform the related manoeuvre!
I just drive everywhere with the hazard flashers on, to cover all possibilities.
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>> I am absolutely amazed that no car manufacturer has fitted auto turn indicators, I would
>> have thought that a company like BMW would have them even if only as an
>> option.
>>
I'm just wondering how that would work. Would it plug into your brain so that it detected that you were thinking of making a turn?
Obviously it couldn't work merely by detecting steering wheel movement, because;
a) some steering movements aren't turns
b) some steering movements are in the opposite direction, eg if you pull out right in order to make a tight left hand turn
c) some turns don't involve any steering movement at all, eg turns on bends, or lane-changing.
d) how would it know that self-cancelation was caused by completion of the turn, rather than in a wiggle in the road alignment before the turn ?
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a) :)
b) :))
c) :)))
d) :))))
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Watch out for it in one of BMW's April ads.
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No reason you couldn't link it to integrated sat nav though I guess? As long as you'd selected a route it would know what you *should* be doing! I'm sure I've also read that either Audi or BMW have developed 'intelligent' sat nav that works out where you're going based on previous journeys / usage. Could make for some interesting signalling!
But back to the list, I wouldn't want a fully self driving car as I usually enjoy driving. My car has most of the other 'auto' functions, and I use almost all of them. Not the parking assistance - never used that. Or the speed limiter, though I will use the cruise control to limit speed. My car also has 'speed limit assist' which reads speed limit signs then flashes it up on the instrument panel, and leaves it showing in the bottom left of the seat nav screen. Can't be difficult to program the car not to exceed that limit, but fortunately that's not an option!
Never had problem with the auto lights or wipers, though the auto dipping main beam is sometimes a bit quick to dip...
Last edited by: PeterS on Sat 7 Feb 15 at 17:52
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"Would it plug into your brain so that it detected that you were thinking of making a turn?"
If it were in a BMW or Audi, it would be best plugged into the driver behind's brain.
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>> If it were in a BMW or Audi, it would be best plugged into the
>> driver behind's brain.
>>
Do you mean the drivers behind ? It would be more likely to predict the drivers intentions.
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"Do you mean the drivers behind ?"
That thought did cross my mind as I was typing!
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"I'm just wondering how that would work. Would it plug into your brain so that it detected that you were thinking of making a turn?"
Not really so silly.
If you are using SatNav it could be programmed to automatically to signal turns at the appropriate points. Actually actually doesn't sound a bad idea. Off to the patent office.
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would that mean no need for taxi drivers, delivery drivers when we get auto matic cars doing all what was done manually
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All the way for boring repetitive commutes to work. Google cars have done 700,000 miles without an accident* but need a map detailed to the inch to work and remote "computer farms" to process data. The LIDAR unit they currently utilize costs $70,000 so it is going to be a long time before they become mainstream.
From Wikipedia:
Limitations
As of August 28, 2014 the latest prototype cannot "handle heavy rain and snow-covered roads".[30] Functionally it can go at sluggish speeds when crossing an unmarked 4-way stop due to the algorithms of the computer taking extra precaution. There are also other limitations on discerning objects such as trash and debris that can unnecessarily veer the vehicle. Additionally Chris Urmson of Google has said that the lidar technology cannot spot potholes or humans, such as a police officer, signaling the car to stop.
The vehicles are unable to recognize temporary traffic signals. They have not proven themselves in snow or rain. They are also unable to navigate through parking lots. Vehicles are unable to differentiate between pedestrian and policeman or between crumpled up paper and a rock. Google projects having these issues fixed by 2020.
* There was one but a human was driving!
A big off switch is required for driving for pleasure on country lanes or big clear open roads.
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I was thinking of driverless cars when I thought "How are they going to do auto indicators". Putting an unpredictable human into the problem makes it a bit difficult. Computers can be a pain but I would hope that I will be long gone by the time that artificial intelligence gets let loose into daily life. With luck there will be a big red " OFF" button but many humans will be too stupid to use it.
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I'd like my next car to park itself in my garage without me having to sit behind the wheel.
Although I'm currently able to drive my old barge in and out with relative ease, anything bigger (as my next car is likely to be) would be a bit of a struggle.
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>> I'd like my next car to park itself in my garage without me having to
>> sit behind the wheel.
I'd like my next car to come and find me when parked in a huge car park, rather than the other way round.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 8 Feb 15 at 09:41
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>> I'd like my next car to come and find me when parked in a huge car park
I'd like one to tell me which car park I've parked in.
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>> >> I'd like my next car to come and find me when parked in a
>> huge car park
>>
>> I'd like one to tell me which car park I've parked in.
>>
>>
Or maybe, just maybe....
" I am at home in the garage. Should I come to you or will you take the bus back home from the shops ?"
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On the other thread about the sad incidents in Glasgow and Bath the outcomes with an automated vehicle could have been totally different.
In Glasgow the accident may never have happened as computers don't have heart attacks and if they do then in something like this one would expect redundancy to kick in - e.g. auto stop.
In Bath if the mechanics fail the computer may need to make some decisions:
Does it keep trying to steer the vehicle out of danger?
Does it look head for the smallest potential group of victims if there is no other choice (would it decide against kid vs. oaps)?
What happens if it decides that there is only one passenger and 10 potential victims and sends the driver off a cliff?
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The day any computer tries to take control of a vehicle's steering away from the driver is the day I hang my keys up.
Full automation on something like the Circle Line on London Underground is not something that should bother anyone; the vehicles in question could not swerve even if they wanted to, and in any case any human stupid, suicidal or unfortunate enough to find themselves in the way of said vehicle is on their way to the morgue anyway.
On the road, however, it is another matter entirely. Logistics companies may well get excited by the thought of "road trains" with one driver controlling five lorries, but here the case for having drivers in the "slave" lorries is a no-brainer, and unlike the Tube drivers they wouldn't be craftily filling in the Sun crossword between stops because the potential for them having to re-take control with split-second reactions is blindingly obvious. Given that the two major costs in haulage are fuel and wages, this leaves only the former as a potential saving and I would guess that this could well be cancelled out by increased insurance premiums.
No, zippy; even the doziest of HGV drivers is fitted with a computer which far outsmarts anything scientists have come up with so far; the human brain, and you need that to steer a truck.
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>>No, zippy; even the doziest of HGV drivers is fitted with a computer which far outsmarts anything scientists have come up with so far; the human brain, and you need that to steer a truck.
I don't disagree!
However, it is coming and the CEO of Mercedes has even stated there could be problems:
www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/mercedes/news/f-015-luxury-in-motion-concept/
(Just over half way down the article.)
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>> I'd like my next car to come and find me when parked in a huge car park
You can use an app for that :)
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>>
>> If you are using SatNav it could be programmed to automatically to signal turns at
>> the appropriate points. Actually actually doesn't sound a bad idea. Off to the patent office.
>>
That would handle actual planned turns. But it wouldn't detect an intention to change lane, or to slow down and pull in at the side.
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I guess "polite" driving will be a thing of the past unless the auto control is cancelled.
e.g. I do not want to drive up to the back bumper of the car ahead as I would block an entrance / exit
Some locals around here would be totally confused by the automation.
Their norm is to position their car in the right lane of a dual carriageway, without any signaling and the loiter for half a mile until an extra right turn lane appears.
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Testing has begun in Bristol, but I'm bemused by the choice of test car
tinyurl.com/prryuy7
They are using a Bowler, I assume so it can just navigate directly through objects!
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The combo of a big engined 5 series, radar cruise control, auto box, head up display and autobahn takes some beating.
Really want to try the jam assist, but haven't got a hire car with it on yet. Looks too good to be true.
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General Question - Car Automation - how far would you go and why. - Old Navy
