If so, did you regret the decision?
I am thinking of changing car and if I look for autos, the options are very limited.
Most medium size autos (in my shortlisted cars) are only available in diesel. I don't do enough miles to warrant a diesel.
The petrol autos are now increasingly fitted with dual clutch transmissions (or similar) rather than traditional torque converters.
Also, autos are usually offered only the top spec models which means too high price compared to base spec models.
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Yes, I did that. Autos for years, then went to a manual. It was fun for a while, but in a commute it began to slowly drive me bonkers, and after about two years I went back to an auto.
Wouldn't have another manual unless really pushed, commuting or no.
Current auto box can be driven in "manual" mode, which I tried for about five hundred yards round a few corners and uphill, then thought "who can be bothered with all this?"
I'm quite sure nearly everyone else will say the opposite and that manuals are lot more engaging.
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^^ Wot he sed.
I miss having an automatic. The "in touch with the road with a manual" rubbish is just that, rubbish!
It's an absolute requirement that the next car (once the Vauxhall has rusted away) is radar guided cruise-control and lane assist that means the car effectively drives itself in slow traffic.
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Over the years I have shifted from Auto to Manual and back again. I have access to the fezzer auto so I still get to drive both.
It depends on what your drive entails. If it were the daily urban crawl and commute, yes every time an auto for me thanks very much. If its weekend jaunts away, long motorway runs then really matters not.
The fezzer is quite good, its has a nice auto box, very nice smooth changes up and down, and in manual mode it will change down into and hold high revs on a snick of the lever so you can satisfyingly thrash it about the country lanes a bit. (hope nicolle doesn't read this)
When it comes to feel and in touch with the road - it entirely depends on the manual box, some of them its really satisfying to snick gears home with no clutch and just throttle balance. Some of them, mine, the feel is so disconnected its impossible to do that, so there is no "feel" to lose.
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>> It's an absolute requirement that the next car (once the Vauxhall has rusted away) is
>> radar guided cruise-control and lane assist that means the car effectively drives itself in slow
>> traffic.
>>
At the minute there are few that will do that. Quite a lot of radar cruise cars about, but most don't go down to zero, so no good for queuing. They just cut off at the "normal" lowest cruise speed, often 25 mph or so. And of course you need an auto for it to work anyway.
A list is here and it does seem to get updated regularly so probably fairly accurate. some surprising omissions. No Ford or Jaguar can do it (at the moment) for example.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_cruise_control_system#Vehicles_models_supporting_adaptive_cruise_control
It was a must for me too, which is one reason I plumped for the Volvo. It works delightfully well.
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Not much in it for me. I've not exactly 'gone back' but like Z have one of each, although the auto is my more regular drive. In very slow traffic I actually prefer the manual Volvo, as its creep speed is lower than the LEC's and it will crawl along in first where the LEC requires dabs on the brakes to keep from running into the car in front.
Replacement for the Volvo could be either, and it will depend on the characteristics of the car itself and what suits it better. One consideration will be footwell layout: size 13s don't always fit with three pedals and a footrest.
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I think to most manual drivers gear changes does become automatic and you become barely aware of the process. Perhaps if you haven't driven a manual for a while it might seems strange for a while and you might be more conscious of changing gear .
My own driving is mostly A road & motorways of country lanes and an automatic doesn't really bring much of and advantage on those types of driving. Can see the benefits in city driving though.
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>> I think to most manual drivers gear changes does become automatic and you become barely aware of the process. Perhaps if you haven't driven a manual for a while it might seems strange for a while and you might be more conscious of changing gear
Exactly!!
When my auto car went for repair, I was given a manual loan car. In motorway it was fine (had cruise control) but in town (especially in stop-start traffice) I hated it.
When you press accelerator and brake, the right foot needs to touch them lightly. But for clutch, left foot needs to floor it. This forces the body to twist every time which is not comfortable.
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Then your seat isn't set right.
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I'm about to make the jump from manual to auto for the first time. I've just ordered a 320d Touring with the (torque converter) automatic transmission option ticked.
I'd like to think it doesn't spell the end of manuals for me, but while I'm forced to endure several hours a day on roads that bear closer resemblance to car parks than anything else, a manual just makes no sense any more.
That, and the ZF8 transmission is a game changer. It's just there. You don't notice it. Smooth quick witted, and always in the gear you want, when you want it.
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I have switched back and forward over the decades. We currently have one of each..
As I grow more disgracefully old, I much prefer auto - especially in towns, traffic jams and slow moving traffic. In the UK, that's mostly everywhere..
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I went back to a manual this time, I told myself that it would be ok, but have regretted it from about 3 days after the change.
The reason I went back to a manual was that trying to get a medium sized hatchback with a proper auto box is getting harder. Ceed & i30 are avialable with TC boxes but were around 20k in mid spec which I thought was a bit steep. I do not want a DSG type box as even though I don't keep cars out of m'fact warranty so am not worried about relaibiblity I don't like the way they drive which is nowhere as good as a proper TC IMHO. I test drove a Octavia & a Golf both of which had "clutch" judder when pulling away and were not great on low speeed manouvering. The French offerings were just awful and from experiance with the Astras on the fleet at work they are unrelaible.
The next car will be an auto though somehow !
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Local garage has a BMW320d auto. Good looking, and a very nice motor. I fancy one actually.
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>> Local garage has a BMW320d auto. Good looking, and a very nice motor. I fancy
>> one actually.
Had one of those as a hire car recently (M-Sport spec):
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=18806
Indeed it was very nice, and speaking as a manual owner I had no complaints about the auto transmission. However in the 3 days I had it I didn't work up the courage to try out the flappy paddle manual change option.
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Could be that the autobox was just picking the right gear anyway, so you didn't feel the need to flap.
Another thing, assuming the BMW had the 8-speed auto: with a five- or six-speed manual or auto it's quite easy and intuitive to think, I want third for this hill / corner / situation, but what's the equivalent process with eight? How long does it take to learn which ratio corresponds to the familiar one?
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Depends on the car and on the 'boxes.
Revvy engine, tight chassis, light car, slick changes = manual
(eg. Civic VTi, Swift Sport)
Sluggy engine, sloppy handling, heavy car = automatic
(eg Nissan Laurel, Shogun)
My Forester XT and the Kizashi both have revvy engines but were/are not as tight and light as the Civic and Swift, so I'd imagine manual and auto would both be fine.
I've never found flappy paddles or +/- semi-auto sticks give the same feel as the clutch-stick combo and wouldn't rate them for an engaging drive - they are perfect for increasing engine braking by downchanging, however.
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Manual? Yes - over my rotten, disease-ridden, maggot-infested dead carcass.
I tried the +/- on mine when I test-drove it. It works. I'll never touch it again.
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Auto every time. I only drive manuals now on the odd occasion I drive my wife's car or if I have a hire car with a stick.
I quite enjoy the change for a while but it soon irritates me and I'm always pleased to get back in an auto.
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>> Auto every time. I only drive manuals now on the odd occasion I drive my
>> wife's car or if I have a hire car with a stick.
>>
>> I quite enjoy the change for a while but it soon irritates me and I'm
>> always pleased to get back in an auto.
>>
Like he said. Until the current car (owned for 7 years). it was always a manual for me. But having had a manual hire car for just a day on a cross country drive, the novelty soon wore off. I'd not want to go back to driving a manual full time. Why bother, with a decent automatic?
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>> Sheer joy of driving?
Efficiency: best performance and economy if the driver concentrates all the time. That said though, most drivers won't be getting the very best out of a manual car most of the time. Most have ingrained bad habits. I am no exception.
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Most have ingrained bad habits. I am no exception.
>>
>>
I would claim to be no more that's an averagely competent sort of driver with my share of bad habits too but I do enjoy driving and there is something satisfying about changing gear at exactly the right time. Experience of autos is mainly limited to driving in the US and Canada and I must admit I find automatics kind of souless and a bit boring to drive.
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Well, on reflection, maybe I'll qualify my above statement a little bit. I'd probably still go manual if I was in the market for a small, low powered runabout. Auto for sure if it's a larger more powerful car for higher mileage.
In other words, if I was going to buy a Fiat 500 or a Panda or a Fiesta or something like that, I'd buy a manual, for anything Mondeo, 5 series, E Class sized I'd go auto without question.
For the ones in between, eg Focus, Qashqai, Golf etc it'd be a bit more of a coin toss really.
Autos don't really suit low torque engines and a wee zippy manual can be fun to drive. However, for example, I did nigh on 250 miles in one go this afternoon in heavy motorway ( stop start traffic ) in my Merc auto and can't really say it hurt much, doing the same run in a little manual hatchback might have been a bit more wearing.
Horses for courses as they used to say.
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Quite happy to change gear when I need to. If I habitually drove in stop start traffic like in that London I might choose an automatic though.
As with the OP I'd find my choice of car curtailed and that selecting an auto limited my choice of trim/extras. IIRC there were no auto Berlingos in 2005 when we bought the first and only a flappy paddle DSG thingy in 2013 when we got the second.
My Dad had TC autos on company cars (a Hillman Hunter followed by four Ford Granadas) from 1971 until he retired in 1982 when he bought a manual Civic and subsequently an Accord. Apparently road tests showed the manuals to have better petrol consumption.
In reality he was such a carp driver in the mechanical sympathy sense, (his observation/courtesy were not that hot either) that I suspect the later slush box Accords gave better mpg.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 7 Jan 15 at 19:35
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My last car (DSG) and the current one (manual) are the same make and model (Octavia vRS petrol estate) so my impressions may be helpful.
If I hadn't been about to retire when buying the current one (November 2013) I'd probably have gone for another DSG, but on the whole I'm glad I didn't. I've done more mileage than expected this year, but not much of it in heavy traffic, and I haven't often missed the DSG.
With the DSG there was always the feeling that the transmission was holding the car back, and that I wasn't getting the full amount of acceleration that the car was capable of - which is a lot, as the manual version demonstrates. That's a little odd as I'd associated that 'holding back' with conventional TC automatics.
The other reasons for going for a manual were firstly that SWMBO has always had manual transmission on her cars and prefers it (useful if we go a long way and share the driving); and also that if I should have to keep this car for longer than before, the manual is less likely to fail expensively than the DSG after a few years.
But DP's impressions of the 3-series automatic will be interesting when he gets it, as this new transmission has been well reviewed and I haven't seen any comments about loss of performance.
Last edited by: Avant on Wed 7 Jan 15 at 20:16
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Well, I like autos and I like Golfs, but a colleague has a DSG equipped Golf I've driven a couple of times and to me anyway, the gearbox spoiled it. A Golf should a chuckable little car shouldn't it? My two GTis were anyway. This felt like an invalid carriage by comparison despite being a GTD I think it's badged.
Still prefer an auto in a big wafter though.
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Renault Master van. Manual.
Mitsi Shogun/Pajero. Auto.
Mitsi Colt. Automated manual.
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Bet you're a whizz at the Hokey Cokey.
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>> But DP's impressions of the 3-series automatic will be interesting when he gets it, as
>> this new transmission has been well reviewed and I haven't seen any comments about loss
>> of performance.
I had a brief (2 mile) go in a colleague's just before Christmas and it is very good. The torque converter locks up almost immediately after moving off, so you don't get the "slipping clutch" feel. Shifts are barely perceptible, and the biggest complement I can pay is that it just sits there doing its thing. The engine always seems to be in its sweet spot when you want to go, and there seems to be no delay or lag in taking up drive. It even adapts to your driving style apparently, so it constantly tweaks itself as it goes.
I discovered while reading up on the transmission the other day that BMW also link the transmission to the sat nav so that hills and corners can even be taken into account by the gear selection logic. Sounds like sci-fi, but what this means in tangible terms is of course unclear As with all these systems it's only going to be as good as the data it's using.
As a company car, this is also one of the very few autos to carry no CO2 penalty, and on paper performance is identical to the manual version. On the road, it actually feels quicker, as it's always sitting right in the meaty bit of the rev range, or pops you there in an instant when you want to accelerate.
The clutch on my manual car has become very heavy with miles (51k now), and is a total pain in traffic.
Look forward to posting first impressions when I get it. Scheduled delivery at the moment is 1st week of March. Also will post parting review on the old one, about which I have mixed, but generally positive feelings.
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Nice bit of family trickle-down: that satnav-transmission link made its debut in a Rolls-Royce.
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>> As a company car, this is also one of the very few autos to carry no CO2 penalty
When I was deciding on cars, the A3 1.4TFSi S-Tronic saloon had lower emissions than the manual. So the cost difference per month was minimal (S-Tronic costs taken into account). About £4/pm. So test drove and liked the car. And a no brainer. Cheaper cars are available.
Then Audi revised spec and not only were the 1.4TFSi engines now 150PS but the emissions of the manual were the same (gearing no doubt). So manual cheaper for me. I got the DSG/S-Tronic.
But I am enjoying a DSG/auto and I might get the same for the next car in 2017. It can hesitate but I know that's partly. me. It's doing good MPG.
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Tried a very new DSG Golf a year or two back and disliked it intensely. It was rubbish in traffic at low speeds. Perhaps it would have been better blatting down country roads, but I didn't get the chance to drive it out of town.
I liked the rear-facing video camera, a substitute for the rv mirror. It wasn't better than a mirror from the practical point of view but I'm intrigued by gadgets.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Thu 8 Jan 15 at 01:20
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Auto for me now, I must be aging. I concur with the DSG comments, in many circumstances I liked the 'box but it could be jerky at low speed (it wasn't always I'd add) and I know from experience that the clutches can overheat.
Will be buying a small manual second car, maybe a Corolla or something as our eldest approaches her 'Ls', I want my kids to learn in a manual to get a full license although in Victoria it seems that people who learn in an Auto can drive a manual car 3 years after their 'P plate' period ends anyhow.
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I didn't like the DSG at all. I had a few days with a CC GT 177 DSG (also on my list), and it spoiled what was otherwise a beautiful car and a real contender. Once rolling, the transmission was quite impressive, but the low speed behaviour was downright awful. Jerky, inconsistent, and the lag when taking off smartly (such as when going for a roundabout gap) was unacceptable. I daresay you can "drive around" some of this with familiarity, but why should you have to when a proper T/C auto just works?
My colleague also has an intermittent fault with his 20,000 mile example where a downshift under acceleration, such as when overtaking, sometimes causes all drive to disappear as if the box has selected neutral. Lift, reapply throttle, and it recovers, but that's not ideal when you are on the wrong side of the road and committed to an overtake. It's been back to the dealer three times and they can't work out what's wrong with it.
Life's too short for all that nonsense :-) Although BMW could learn a thing or two from that VAG CR TDi in terms of NVH. It's silky smooth and quiet compared to the BM engine.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 8 Jan 15 at 07:41
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Car 4 Play forum and all these advocates for autos - what's the world coming to?
Driven both TC and twin clutch and they are for mimsing and those who no longer enjoy driving but just want to get from A to B. Only one step short of a taxi.
Blue touchpaper lit. . . . . . .
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>> Driven both TC and twin clutch and they are for mimsing and those who no
>> longer enjoy driving but just want to get from A to B. Only one step
>> short of a taxi.
No. They can do a bit more than that.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=m46ds7UxxQI
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Don't care one bit. I've a manual at the moment; I had a couple of autos (a Merc 123 and an Audi 100). Upon death of Audi I inherited my father's old Vectra (manual) and haven't had an auto since. Probably as I haven't driven quite such large cars since.
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I think that one's view of DSG is going to be coloured by which type it was: the wet-clutch version (which I had in the last Octavia and was fine), or the dry-clutch, which has been reported as both jerky and unreliable. For whatever reason (beyond me as a non-mechanic) the dry-clutch version is fitted in the smaller VAG models.
Generally the wet-clutch has 6 speeds, the dry-clutch 7, but I don't think the number of gears makes much difference.
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>> For whatever reason (beyond me as a non-mechanic) the dry-clutch version is fitted in the smaller VAG models.
The dry clutch DSG is fitted to cars with 250Nm of torque or less. It's not the smaller cars, it's the less powerful engines.
Apparently VAG has a 10 speed DSG. That will be available for higher powered/more torquey engines.
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DQ200 is dry clutch, 7 speed and fitted to cars with less than 250Nm of torque, rationale for dry clutch is faster gearchanges and better economy/emissions (less drag). This 'box is the one which had (unrelated to the clutches) electrical corrosion problems in warm climates. However the other big problem is that the clutches can overheat and warp. Nevertheless the 'box is still being fitted to many new models so it isn't being discontinued. Declaring my hand - I would not have this 'box in any car ever again.
DQ250 is the 6 speed wet clutch derivative and is fitted to more powerful car derivatives such as the Golf GTi and 2.0TDi. These have had ECU/programming improvements but not the much publicized electrical failures.
DQ500 is a heavy duty wet clutch design, possibly available in 6 speed form but more normally 7 speed these days. It's fitted to vans and 4wd variants like the Tiguan and maybe the Audi Q range.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Fri 9 Jan 15 at 05:49
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Anyone went back from auto to manual? - Crankcase
