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Would a car having one be enough to put you off buying ? At least the BMW replacement options for my 3 series soft top still have one, but other options do not ie VW. Ok I suppose if you always run a car under warranty, but if like me it is bought privately, and out of warranty, it is a serious consideration.
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I think most potential buyers are unaware of the added risk of problems over a proper hand-brake, but are perhaps won over by their 'new' car having the latest technology? Keeping up with the Jones, and all that.
But I share your concern. Our S-Max has keyless entry and ignition, and I worry that it will become less attractive when we come to sell it with all the stories of Range Rovers and BMWs with such technology being stolen with £50 boxes from Ebay.
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Anyone have any details of huge problems caused by failing electronic handbrakes? I remember plenty caused by runaway VWs with manual handbrakes.
Electronic parking brakes have no manifested themselves as a problem. I don't like them as a user, but thats probably because I have insufficient experience of them, being just a casual user of the system. (mind it would help if they were all the same - like handbrakes mostly are)
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I understand VW epbs are a known fault area on Passats but only on older cars. I didn't like the ones I have come across as they are a bit binary (ie: either on or off, no subtlety in between), but if I liked the car in other ways an epb would not out me off.
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Is it less the possibility of the car running away than that of possible future repair costs that puts people off - the prospect of needing replacement motors for example?
I've no reason to think that is likely to be a problem, but as I don't need the additional functionality an EPB provides, why would I want one?
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>> Is it less the possibility of the car running away than that of possible future
>> repair costs that puts people off - the prospect of needing replacement motors for example?
I would suggest that a car runaway (a user issue that EPBs are designed to stop) if far more of an issue than later failures. Manual handbrakes also have known later life failure issues (seized components, cable stretch - none of which is easy or cheap for the average motorist to resolve)
But as you say I don't have an issue with using a manual handbrake and do prefer the higher degree of control they offer
Wouldn't be a deal breaker either way tho
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Just leave it in gear or Park.
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Tough to do a neat handbrake turn with an EPB though. ;-)
I drove an Insignia with an EPB a couple of weeks ago. No rational explanation for this comment but I thought it slightly spoiled what was otherwise a perfectly inoffensive car.
I guess I could live with it but while there still are plenty of cars without it I'd probably not deliberately buy one so equipped.
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What's "ELECTRONIC" about them?-surely "ELECTRIC". Pedant mode on.
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>> What's "ELECTRONIC" about them?-surely "ELECTRIC". Pedant mode on.
They are Electronically controlled.
If you plan to be a pedant you need to be perfect.
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Not that I've tried, but I imagine the Merc's foot operated handbrake (!!) is not conducive to a neat handbrake turn either!!
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I've not tried either, but at least with the power going to the proper wheels you can just boot it and get a similar effect on full lock !
Not that anyone was doing irresponsible things like that in the snow we had here last night. Of course not, that would have been childish, immature and quite possibly dangerous so no one would even consider...
;-)
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I can only offer my experience of electronic parking brakes on this car (Audi A3) and previous (Passat CC).
Both have worked without a problem* and setting off is easy because the brake automatically disengages providing you have your seat belt on. On the Passat it would automatically engage when you turned off the ignition providing the auto hill hold was on and your seat belt was on*.
On the Passat CC/MkVII the auto hold would hold the car for as long as you liked (it did for me) without needing the EPB applying.
On the Audi A3 the EPB will not auto enable for my car because I didn't go for auto hill hold (an option that was standard on the Passat). But you cannot take the key out unless it in park because I went for the DSG/S-Tronic version.
Now my * above. Once (maybe twice) I managed to start getting out of the car and the parking brake was not on :-) And I think it was user error. I'd probably taken the belt off and got used to it auto applying the EPB. Which it didn't doesn't if the seat belt was removed before you stopped. Oops.
I think the location of the EPB switch/control on the Passat CC/MkVII was better than the Audi A3. It was further forward on the central console. But on the Passat MkVI it was on the dashboard which was not a good location.
Would it put me off buying a car - no. Do I prefer an EPB? Probably yes.
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I would never go back to a car with a stick-brake after having EPB - stick brakes are too old fashioned, crude and take up too much useful space.
Last edited by: Shiny Tailpipes on Sun 28 Dec 14 at 19:01
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Stick brakes, oh dear, you will be calling radio aerials dogem poles next.
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There are two VAG systems and the earlier cars (including I believe the current A5) have the old system which my son describes as terrible (having had two A5s and a variety of A6s).
After a couple of weeks of having the Passat,and realising the effect of unfastening your seatbelt early (as rtj70), they are unobtrusive and just work. Luckily our drive is quite steep so when I move the Wife's Fiesta I know very quickly that I have to put the handbrake on manually.
The seatbelt trick is useful for low speed maneuvering as taking the belt off means the handbrake does not auto apply.
Mine is a company car so would I buy a car with one? - will I have a choice?
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>> The seatbelt trick is useful for low speed maneuvering as taking the belt off means the
>> handbrake does not auto apply.
You actually refer to the auto hold function which does not work without the seatbelt on. And if it's not engaged when you stop the engine it does not then apply the EPB.
I used to apply the EPB when stationary for more than a few seconds on my Passat CC. I do on the S-Tronic equipped A3 otherwise on that I'm depressing the brake pedal.
If I want the engine running (and not stopped via stop-start) just before I set off... Two methods: (1) dab the brake pedal because even though the handbrake is on the engine restarts or (2) pull back on the gearstick which puts it into sport mode which turns off stop-start.
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>> Would a car having one be enough to put you off buying ?
No it wouldn't, my current Outback is the first car I've had with a full EPB but my E91 330d had hill hold as did my Golf VI DSG. In the end the EPB is merely using an electrical signal to replace a steel cable and a lever, the brake actuation is still via the calipers just as before. It could be argued that there is less to go wrong with an EPB......
Many functions in a modern car are electro-mechanical - does the fact that the ABS (and stability control) or drive-by-wire throttle are electro-mechanical make a car less reliable, does electronic fuel injection make it less reliable - were cars really more reliable with a throttle cable, carburetor and a manual choke ?
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But an EPB and hill hold are separate in the VAG world. If you have an EPB then hill hold is free if the software supports it. And you'd want a button to override it at times. And due to the need for an override it's not standard. My Passat CC had both. My Audi A3 does not. If I'd gone for a manual A3 I'd have added hill hold for a small monthly cost for sure.
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The days of me buying a new car have probably gone. There is very little on the market that to my eyes, looks nice, and there are myriads of needless complexities in most. I've a feeling that the problem for most of them won't be the EPB, but the tyre pressure alarm - which is now a compulsory fitment on new cars. Batteries and sensors one cannot change without demounting the tyre? Not a terribly good idea.
I've a feeling it won't take very long now for a driver to pass their test, and have no idea of how to do a manual hill start. And as for doing a hill start in my vintage car, no chance. One has a choice, either hold the car with the footbrake (rear wheel only) or use the handbrake acting on the front wheels only and because of the hand throttle, knock it off with your knee.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Mon 29 Dec 14 at 09:28
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>>I've a feeling that the problem for most of them won't be
>> the EPB, but the tyre pressure alarm - which is now a compulsory fitment on
>> new cars. Batteries and sensors one cannot change without demounting the tyre? Not a terribly
Don't worry about that. The mandated flat tyre warning is not the same as the Tyre Pressure Monitoring System.
The former simply just uses a software algorithm monitoring wheel speed changes to look for a wheel starting to turn faster in relation to the others via the existing ABS wheel sensors. As it's simple and cheap, that will be used on most cars that don't have run-flats.
Last edited by: Shiny Tailpipes on Mon 29 Dec 14 at 11:01
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>> The former simply just uses a software algorithm monitoring wheel speed changes to look >> for a wheel starting to turn faster in relation to the others via the existing ABS
>> wheel sensors. As it's simple and cheap, that will be used on most cars that
>> don't have run-flats.
>>
In fact that was exactly as fitted to my E91 330d which did have runflats. I would contend that once you have computational power (in the ECU) and appropriate senors and actuators (as you do in your ABS system), many features can be implemented very cheaply indeed. Which is why I would also suggest that manufacturers charging GBP100 here and there for hill hold or tyre pressure warning as optional extras are making a very healthy profit.
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BMW - Electronic hand brakes - Boxsterboy
