I posted about transmission problem in 7.5 yr old Kia Ceed in Technical section (not many members look there nowdays I guess).
Anyway, the dealer diagnosed the problem and concluded that Transmission Control Module failed!
This is surprising as car is only 6 months outside warranty and had full main dealer service history (even dealer's mechanics are surprised). I have been quoted £840 to replace the TCM. Ideally TCM should last lifetime of the car.
Obviously I am not a happy bunny. Dealer said they would check if Kia can contribute something as goodwill gesture. They also can't confirm how long parts will take to arrive (they don't stock it as not a common replacement item).
Let's see what happens now.
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I think it may be a feature of the long warranty that in the UK Kia are pretending this is a new problem. While I don't see many Kias, have a look at this www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-4-pin-Normally-Open-JAPANESE-OEM-Relay-RESISTOR-PROTECTED-/300742257963?clk_rvr_id=743787969719&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=ZVClGKVk8uU27QNTVj%252Btbc9r7%252Bg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc as it appears to be a fix for some models at a slight saving to Kias quotes.
Maybe worthwhile signing up to some US Kia forums for confirmation for your car.
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On the face of it I cant imagine that you will get very far with a warranty claim on a 7.5 year old car, even though it is only just out of warranty. I think that the seven year warranty is very generous and you are just unfortunate that it has happened now.
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Got to give it to Kia, that's a fantastic example of building something to just last the warranty.
I think you may get some kind of goodwill - they are trading on their extended warranty so it would be good protection of their image in your eyes
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>> Got to give it to Kia, that's a fantastic example of building something to just
>> last the warranty.
Just like VW/Audi with their DSG boxes, the only difference is that they fail just outside the 3 year warranty, which is all you get on their UK cars !
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I had a quick search and can't see any of the usual places offering repairs on this unit, so it could well be correct that failure is unusual.
Certainly worth asking Kia - it's always been my impression the exended warranty is subsidised to some extent by expensive dealer servicing costs so you must have paid the network a fair bit of cash over 7yrs.
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Daughter has a Ceed and the aircon has sprung a leak. She asked the dealer if it is covered by the 7 year warranty. He said it would cost £95 to check the car over to confirm. (The car has been regularly serviced, but not by Kia, which isn't mandatory). Aircon man reckons not much more than that to fix it so she isn't going to bother.
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>> Daughter has a Ceed and the aircon has sprung a leak. She asked the dealer
>> if it is covered by the 7 year warranty. He said it would cost £95
>> to check the car over to confirm. (The car has been regularly serviced, but not
>> by Kia, which isn't mandatory).
That's one of the problems of exercising your right to have it serviced out of the dealer network, you lose any goodwill whatsoever from the manufacturer. I can never understand why people do it while the car is under warranty.
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I can never understand
>> why people do it while the car is under warranty.
>>
Save money I suppose if you don't think it is going to go wrong. Mind you if think you can afford a new car I don't know how much it would save.
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>> Save money I suppose if you don't think it is going to go wrong. Mind
>> you if think you can afford a new car I don't know how much it
>> would save.
Another reason might be convenience. My French car indy was three minutes from the station. Drop the car at 06:30, spare keys through door and on the the 06:50 to London. Pick it up on return or if late pay over 'phone and they'd leave it locked on forecourt with spare key inside.
The dealer is on an out of town retail centre on far side of town. Early drop off/late pickup are difficult/impossible and it's a 25minute bike ride to station.
Oddly, while I feel perfectly safe riding round Trafalgar Sq there are roads on Northampton's periphery that give me the willies.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 7 Dec 14 at 12:34
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"I can never understand why people do it while the car is under warranty."
Simple
For a start the cost. Then's whether your main dealer is any good, - many are less than competent and finally many people live miles away from their main dealer but have a perfectly good garage within a few miles
As far as cost goes you are basically trading the certainty of money saved on servicing for the possibility of a bit of goodwill sometime in the future. That goodwill won't necessarily be forthcoming whether you use the main dealer or not.
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>> "I can never understand why people do it while the car is under warranty."
>>
>> Simple
>>
>> For a start the cost. Then's whether your main dealer is any good, - many
>> are less than competent and finally many people live miles away from their main dealer
>> but have a perfectly good garage within a few miles
Does it really save it save that much ? Dealers these days have fixed price servicing and there are probably just as many incompetent indies whose staff will have had no training on working on your car. Plus you won't get any software updates or body inspections to keep the corrosion warranty.
>>
>> As far as cost goes you are basically trading the certainty of money saved on
>> servicing for the possibility of a bit of goodwill sometime in the future. That goodwill
>> won't necessarily be forthcoming whether you use the main dealer or not.
>>
Obviously its entirely up to the individual owner, but to me having spent thousands of pounds on a car I won't risk warranty problems down the line to save 50 quid on a service. Reminds me of when I used to run a motor factors and you would get a customer who would spend all morning on the phone ringing round trying to save 50p on a Sierra oil filter !
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Is a 7 year warranty really 7.5 years? Or is it only 7 if nothing goes wrong shortly after? Why sell extended warranty, if the standard one actually goes beyond the initial period.
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>> Have a look at this tinyurl.com/p7wzkyv
>>
>> tinyURL.com appears to be a fix for long URLs.
Alternately pick apart the ebay link and just leave in the item number.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300742257963
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In the one and only Kia fault that I've been involved in, the dealer condemned the TCM and the owner himself, not keen to pay the £500+VAT for the dealer part only, found out it was a simple relay like the ebay one. May not be the same for yours, but I'd be identifying the actual part on the car before contemplating shelling out for an alleged dealer only part.
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Ideally TCM should last lifetime of the car.
Perhaps it did.
};---)
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Just an aside but Kia related. Yesterday afternoon I set too to wash and checkover one of the daughters Picantos (they both have them and err so does Mrs FC). Found the + battery terminal clamp a bit slack so had a go at tightening it then realised it had been broken by some numpty who had overtightened it previously. Its not one of the solid items but a pressed steel jobby.
After much pratting about there was no way I could effect a repair so resigned myself to sourcing a replacement today. Before I hit the dealer I thought I woud try to see if there was a salvage part about which would save going backwards and forward to Kia part departments whilst they ordered said item. All 3 Picantos have a slightly different rig.
Found Motorhog in Doncaster had some Picantos in so had a speculative ride out. I know the days of crawling up and over stacks of precariously balanced cars and even getting in the yard are over and I was apprehensive about a counter gorrilla showing any enthusiasm to match my part.
Well I was surprised! The staff member was aware of the variety of different fittings and suggested we go down the yard. He throws me a high viz tabbard and invites me aboard a golf cart. Off we go through the warehouse and out into the yard. It was massive! It really was like salvage Disney. So we came across a few Picantos and I found an exact match. The engine was out and it became apparent that the clamp was part of a bigger loom incorporating a number of wires and connectors although someone had snipped off the engine end of a couple of the wires.
Rode back around salvage Disney and to the counter where he sat down at the computer. £5 ! He informed me that the Kia part would have cost me £76 so it appears that the clamp cannot be purchased separate. They must have a parts price database to help value salvage parts.
I've mixed and matched components and all is now good :)
So a apart from a 90 mile round trip an excellent experience made better by Ashley the helpful staff member.
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If only!
This is a dedicated fitting - 2 thick high amp and one thin low amp wires , a 10amp fuse all mounted to a plate within in a plastic housing.
Getting the car roadworthy was priority. I could have used a standard clamp and joined it to the existing fitting somehow but by the time I had sourced the bits and done the soldering I felt it was quicker to just keep it standard. OCD kicks in :S
And I would have missed the salvage Disney experience :)
Last edited by: Fullchat on Mon 8 Dec 14 at 17:55
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>> And I would have missed the salvage Disney experience :)
There's a yard like that on the North Circular, and another one out in the country somewhere, a huge hidden field in Sussex. But really I liked the small gypsy operations behind our old gaff, Shepherd's Bush hinterland as it were. They let you get filthy and risk life and limb to get the bits yourself, and weren't too greedy. I took at least two of my Skodas down there and then had to go and get bits off them for the next Skoda. The yard were charming, told me where they were and didn't charge anything for the bits, since they were really mine anyway.
I guess the scrap metal is what makes the money, chassis and suspension parts, springs and those fabulous artistic-looking cuboids of body sheet, doors etc. showing paint of all colours (but never an agonised face with blood coming out of the eye sockets unfortunately). I don't know what those cuboids weigh but two men wouldn't shift one easily by hand.
Of course the best yards have gigantic electromagnets on cranes that lift a cuboid or two along with an untidy bunch of suspension members and smaller iron and steel debris.
I really love breakers' yards although they're a bit rough for me now. Recycling in the raw, going on of course donkey's years before the term was invented.
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Kia has agreed to pay 80% of the cost of repair.
However, they can't say when the parts will arrive (it is on back order). In worst case it can be couple of months!
During this time, I would have no car. The dealer can't provide a courtesy car for that long.
:-(
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>> Kia has agreed to pay 80% of the cost of repair.
>>
>> However, they can't say when the parts will arrive (it is on back order). In
>> worst case it can be couple of months!
>>
>> During this time, I would have no car. The dealer can't provide a courtesy car
>> for that long.
>>
>> :-(
Have you approached Kia about a courtesy car?
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Dealer spoke with Kia. They say because they have agreed to bear most of the repair cost they won't pay for courtesy car.
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>> Dealer spoke with Kia.
Are you a long-standing regular customer of the dealer?
The point of supporting your local franchised dealer by using them is they're supposed to help you out - not just refer everythng back to the manufacturer.
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>> Are you a long-standing regular customer of the dealer?
Yes. Their version is that on warranty cases loan car is paid by manufacturer. Because my car is out of warranty and Kia has already shown some goodwill by bearing the cost of repair, they can't get any more contribution from Kia towards loan car.
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Just a random thought Movi, but we found ourselves in a similar situation but for very different reasons years ago.
Our scenario was that we lived in the middle of nowhere and we both needed cars. My wife's car was stolen from a railway station car park and the insurance company didn't want to pay out for a while unless it was recovered. Our policy didn't cover a hire car at the time and we were more or less skint into the bargain.
So, I went out the following day and found the cheapest car I could with a long MOT. It so happened to be an old Panda.
The plan was that if her car was recovered we'd sell the Panda or if the insurance paid out ( which they eventually did ) we would use the Panda as a trade in on her replacement car.
In the end, she fell in love with the little Fiat and she kept it for 4 years and some 80,000 miles !
Just to come back to your dilemma, I guess my suggestion is to source a really cheap car to tide you over.
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I think you are damn lucky to get 80% of the cost paid on a car that is over 7 years, and now you expect them to give you a loan car?
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I have to agree with the above.
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I don't. If he hires a car it'll cost more than the goodwill (which in reality costs Kia much less than the "headline" cost).
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Wed 10 Dec 14 at 21:43
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He is lucky to get anything at all. The car is over 7 years old!
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A 7.5 year old car is still regarded as current and it's not reasonable to expect an owner to wait 2 months for a part, the failure of which renders the car unusable.
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>> He is lucky to get anything at all. The car is over 7 years old!
>>
I have to agree; one of the risks of running a car out of warranty (regardless of warranty length) is that you have to take responsibility for repair costs and inconvenience. If the manufacturer contributes, great, but don't count on it. In this instance I think Kia have been pretty generous. It makes no sense to act as if the car had an 8 year warranty....otherwise who would buy a new one ;-)
And in insurance terms a 7.5 year old car that needed £1k of body shop repairs and 8 weeks hire costs would probably be an economic write off anyway!
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Have you identified the part yet or are still hoping that a dealer scan is correct that a nebulous module is at fault?
Why 2 months wait for a VOR situation?
Don't you agree the mathematics of 20% x too much, still equals too much?
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I have come late to this post, but WOW, you are getting 80%,of the repair cost on a 7.5 yo car. Amazing. But I think your expectations of a courtesy car, from either the dealer or Kia, was hopeful. At worst it seems you will have to wait two months.
You might be able to buy my 330 soft top for £6k, and possibly get your money back in Spring.
It has a detachable tow bar if you are worried about space. I might even throw in the trailer for good measure.
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>>Don't you agree the mathematics of 20% x too much, still equals too much?
Absolutely. But that is clearly supposing that it is "too much".
I don't really think you can buy a product with a 7 year warranty and then complain about anything which happens after that period.
I think an 80% contribution is already dead generous. "Stuff off and fix it yourself" would have been legal and in accordance with the contract so they're doing substantially more than that already.
More, in fact, than many others would do. It seems a bit churlish to expect more.
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> More, in fact, than many others would do. It seems a bit churlish to expect
>> more.
>>
More than any other would do I expect !
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IF IF IF....Diagrams/info can be gleaned from the Net then I have a man who can sort a hell of a lot of things that come under the electronic umbrella. Just saying.....No G/tees.
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Ok, here is the update.
The part arrived sooner than expected and car got fixed. They replaced the whole ECU as TCM can't replaced separately. I had to pay £90 which was dealer's investigative work. The rest of the bill was paid by Kia goodwill.
I may be wrong but I got the vibe from many members here that I should feel damn lucky because Kia is even willing to contribute on a 7.5 yr old car!
Let's get few facts right first.
1. Just because a car is 7-8 years old doesn't mean it is destined for scrap yard. A well maintained car (i.e. properly serviced) should just like as good as it were when newer. In fact, my car at 72k miles still drives in a same manner as it did at 18k miles when I bought it. My car has full service history by main dealers. So it is not unreasonable to expect some goodwill gesture from manufacturer. This is the actual reason Kia showed their goodwill (as told by dealer).
2. Just because most manufactures offer a paltry 3-yr warranty that doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. If people refuse to buy cars with only 3-yr warranty then industry will be forced to extend warranty which would make all of us better off!
3.I got a loan car for 3 days. But dealer said if parts take too long to appear they can't provide a courtesy car indefinitely as they have to prioritize customers who are claiming within warranty period (ok, fair enough). I managed few days without car. My frustration came because initially they told me parts could take months to arrive.
I shall buy Kia again and I predict many of you will buy Kia too :o)
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"and I predict many of you will buy Kia too :o)"
I'll try to resist, as well as avoiding beige anoraks ;-)
Great customer service though. To be applauded.
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As the owner / carer of 4 Kias this is indeed good service. Whilst I was also in the camp of 'what do you expect from an out of warranty claim' they have come up trumps.
What does get my goat is the horrendous cost of some of these components which bears no resemblance to the true cost. And as you rightly expect they should last the life of the vehicle. It would be good if in the event of a failure of one of these components that they were supplied out of warranty at true cost and with complete dealer service history without a battle.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 12 Dec 14 at 16:18
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I'm sure many of these miniature electronic wonder gizmos have no more than the computing power of a pocket calculator and are churned out in vast quantities, yet they cost more than a decent spec PC complete with monitor and keyboard.
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>> And as you rightly expect they should last
>> the life of the vehicle. It would be good if in the event of a
>> failure of one of these components that they were supplied out of warranty at true
>> cost and with complete dealer service history without a battle.
>>
How do we define the expected lifetime of a vehicle? Obviously there's no money in making everlasting cars, so what is a reasonable design target for a manufacturer?
10 years and/or 100,000 miles maybe - I do hope not as that's the age/mileage I tend to buy cars at ;-)
15 years and/or 200,000 miles - personally I think that's reasonable - from my perspective, not the car manufacturers shareholders' perspective.
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Straw poll of one so no science to follow but I've run quite a few cars to 200,000 without grief. Rule of ( my ) thumb is if they get to 100,000 without breaking they'll most probably get to the next 100,000 without doing so.
Some however, fire warning shots over your bows much earlier than that and those get moved on sharpish.
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>> Straw poll of one so no science to follow but I've run quite a few
>> cars to 200,000 without grief. Rule of ( my ) thumb is if they get
>> to 100,000 without breaking they'll most probably get to the next 100,000 without doing >> so.
>>
That's my philosophy; coupled with the fact that 100,000 seems to be the point where prices take more of a nosedive. My current low rent, boy racer Astra had 74K on it at purchase, which is the lowest mileage I've bought at in over a decade.
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My jalopy could do with an oil and filter change, and perhaps new plugs too. The local indy I've used for years, a very nice cat I've always thought, had a contretemps with one of our kids at a party down the road, and hit him, I'm told. Some local gang-culture thing, stupid and beneath contempt, and I'd bet not really his fault or our lad's either (others, some notorious, were allegedly involved).
Nevertheless I have to show solidarity here, and get the car fettled by someone else once or twice to make the point. What an utter PITA though. Finding a new indy who talks sense is always a nightmare. I'm told there is one, but seeing is believing.
Damn!
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>> Damn!
It's all right after all. I misunderstood: the guy who hit the kiddy wasn't the mechanic, but the one who delivers the newspaper, who has the same name. I never see him.
What a relief.
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>> It's all right after all. I misunderstood: the guy who hit the kiddy wasn't the
>> mechanic, but the one who delivers the newspaper, who has the same name. I never
>> see him.
But now you will have to go out to pick up your paper in the morning, won't you?
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>> But now you will have to go out to pick up your paper in the morning, won't you?
No. There's no problem. I never see the cat.
The drive is very muddy at the moment with deepening water-filled places. If the worst comes to the worst and he starts refusing to come down the drive, as he did a year or so back until we got some new rubble and bashed it down, I'll have to walk 600 yards before coffee again. No bad thing perhaps, although I'd rather not have to.
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>> Straw poll of one so no science to follow but I've run quite a few
>> cars to 200,000 without grief. Rule of ( my ) thumb is if they get
>> to 100,000 without breaking they'll most probably get to the next 100,000 without doing so.
Hmmm - not so sure about that. Some cars are renowned for trouble at around 120K miles - BMW diesels spring to mind, and I had an horrendous time with a Peugeot 406 which had been so good up to 90K /3yrs that I elected to keep it for another year as the replacement didn't have the turbo petrol engine. Big mistake - one thing after another went wrong.
ETA: Timing chains on petrol Merc's is another.
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.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 12 Dec 14 at 20:12
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>> 1. Just because a car is 7-8 years old doesn't mean it is destined for
>> scrap yard. A well maintained car (i.e. properly serviced) should just like as good as
>> it were when newer.
Rubbish, there would 100 million cars clogging up the road that never went wrong. Things wear out or break, well maintained or not.
>>n fact, my car at 72k miles still drives in a
>> same manner as it did at 18k miles when I bought it.
Rubbish again. The gearbox broke and it didn't drive at all.
My car has
>> full service history by main dealers. So it is not unreasonable to expect some goodwill
>> gesture from manufacturer. This is the actual reason Kia showed their goodwill (as told by
>> dealer).
And at what point does that "goodwill"end? 8, 9 10 years? Based on what you wrote above, In your world you expect them to stump up indefinitely
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>The gearbox broke and it didn't drive at all.
Transmission was fine mechanically. The electronics was problem. The car was still drivable.
>Rubbish
It is possible to disagree without saying that :-)
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Movilogo
I am pleased that you had a satisfactory result. A 7 year warranty means zilch to me as I normally buy my cars out of manufacturers warranty and have them serviced by a reliable indie.
Lots of people buy their cars because of the warranty offered by a new (ish) vehicle, but I trust to luck and a fair bit of judgement when buying privately second hand. Oops, I mean pre owned. Such as the sellers lawn edges neatly trimmed, no flaking of paint on the window sills & a nice clean kitchen floor. In my sad world that is my warranty. Not let me down yet, but there is always a first time.
Hope the Kia gives plenty more years reliable service.
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Think you can count that as a bit of a result Movi.
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>> Think you can count that as a bit of a result Movi.
>>
I don't think that he does though Humph
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It seems I counted my chickens too early!
When testing the car, I discovered some transmission problem is still there. It was not shifting to top gear (i.e. not engaging lock-up clutch) even at high speed. There was also occasional sudden juddering while in move.
Took the car back to dealer today and a mechanic (not someone who fitted the ECU) diagnosed and said now error codes are saying problem with gearbox/transmission!
I asked him whether original diagnosis was wrong but he didn't say anything and insisted that I speak with original mechanic on Monday. That mechanic very strongly said earlier that fault was on ECU/TCM and tranmission parts were fine.
I am now beginning to wonder whether they properly checked the fault first time. Definitely they didn't test the car either after allegedly "fixing" the problem.
On top of this, driver's side door was stuck (never happened before)! So I had to enter via passenger door. Mechanic said it is due to faulty latch. One of the sales guys there gave me lift back home and in that car passenger door was not opening!
Next week I'll have a some tough conversation with dealer as it appears.
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Or trade it in while it still moves under its own steam...
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I was definitely in the camp of 80% contribution was lucky and the courtesy car was too much. However, lucky or not, they agreed to do it and they haven't done it properly.
As you say, aside from anything else they clearly didn't test it.
I, too, would be having firm conversations with the dealer. And now I *would* be expecting a courtesy car.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 13 Dec 14 at 11:24
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>> I was definitely in the camp of 80% contribution was lucky and the courtesy car
>> was too much. However, lucky or not, they agreed to do it and they haven't
>> done it properly.
>>
>> As you say, aside from anything else they clearly didn't test it.
>>
>> I, too, would be having firm conversations with the dealer. And now I *would* be
>> expecting a courtesy car.
Yes, now they have been shown to be less than competent, now is the time to start playing hardball.
And no, we wont be buying a Kia.
And I told you the gearbox was broke.
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Oh dear, you've quoted my entire note. Now Dave will get all worked up.
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Send it to auction
Then buy a 10yo straight six BM.
Life's too short matey
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Till now dealer can't give me any estimate when my car will be fixed. After some hard questions, I gathered that their mechanics are struggling to figure out what is wrong and how to fix. They have asked for advice from Kia's engineering team!
Never thought my car is as complex as a space ship!
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>> Till now dealer can't give me any estimate when my car will be fixed. After
>> some hard questions, I gathered that their mechanics are struggling to figure out what is
>> wrong and how to fix. They have asked for advice from Kia's engineering team!
>>
>> Never thought my car is as complex as a space ship!
>>
It's at times like these that leasing a new car and changing it every 3yrs doesn't look such a bad idea!
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I know what I'd be buying myself for Christmas...
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Ah, two notes disappeared without reason or explanation. I guess Dave is back.
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>> Ah, two notes disappeared without reason or explanation. I guess Dave is back.
>>
I can quote them faster than he can delete them.
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Kia's own mechanic advised that something wrong with the wiring in transmission. So he suggested transmission (solenoids etc.) need rewiring. Been quoted £270 for the work. Also confirmed that ECU was at fault too (now the problem is bit different and intermittent).
I have not much choice but to continue with their suggestion.
They still can't confirm 100% that this will definitely fix the issue. So I said I'd only pay after I have verified that problems gone after few days of test drive once I get vehicle back.
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Presumably you will only be paying 20% of this bill and nothing for the previous bills?
Sounds like time for a strop.
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A main dealer playing parts darts and expecting you to pick up the bill is unacceptable. If a KIA dealer with their factory trained technicians and access to the approved diagnostic systems and tooling can't fix it, what hope has anyone else got?
I'd be on the phone to the service manager first thing Monday morning, and I wouldn't be getting my wallet out again in a hurry.
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Finally car is back and I have driven it over 100 miles and it is behaving as it should be (touch wood).
The faults were
1. Faulty TCM
2. Loose connection in 6 male-female sockets which was causing random loss of electrical signal leading to abrupt gear shifts. This was not detected by any diagnostic equipment but replaced based on Kia's own technician's sugestion (which did fix the remaining issue).
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I very much doubt the TCM was faulty, just the easiest thing to blame rather than doing a proper inspection/diagnosis. Only when it was replaced and the fault persisted, did they get that sinking feeling that they should have done a proper diagnosis first.
Generally, an ECU is the last thing to blame, only when everything else has been thoroughly checked.
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Remind me never to buy a used Kia.. they remind me of VW dealers..
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>> Remind me never to buy a used Kia.. they remind me of VW dealers..
>>
An observation, the OP's troubles seem similar to those which afflicted VW's DSGs - electrical connections failing ?
Again, VW and/or its dealers lost good will and customers by taking a long time to isolate the problem and then rectify it. Arguably they have done so now but the brand damage is likely already done.
As to the Kia, I will admit to surprise at the notion that the manufacturer would be liable on such an old vehicle, 7 years is probably approaching the design life of many components. I'm not saying that you can't buy a car that will run to 200,000 miles without fault - just that you cannot expect a car to do so and you pay a much reduced purchase price for a 7yo or 100,000 mile+ car as a result. IMHO of course, not deliberately trying to annoy the 'I run my car to 200,000 miles and it only cost me 20p' brigade.
For the record, I probably would buy a used Kia, I wouldn't buy any VW with a dry clutch (DQ200) DSG.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Fri 26 Dec 14 at 23:15
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I had the same doubt too. However Kia paid full cost of TCM so I guess their engineer must have checked later that it was at fault too.
Before TCM replacement car was always juddering while shifting to R or D. After that it was only refusing to go top gear.
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KIA - Out of warranty problem - colino
