in the driving test.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30249249
And perhaps a follow the sat nav bit...
I'm quite proud of my non sat nav navigation. Very rare for me to get lost, and can find some places better than the sat nav does too. Some of it is about paying attention to the wind direction and some of is knowing what way a tv aerial points in the UK. I dare say I'll buy one eventually but I've resisted so far.
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I feel the same about sat nav navigation as you, SP. Adding that bit to the driving test just confirms my worst fears. Paper maps are already harder to come by. Ultimately, I think local councils will become very sloppy about signposting. They'll take the attitude "everyone has got sat nav, why do they need signs?", especially when a sign has been stolen for its scrap metal value.
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Well its important that the driving test reflects modern driving requirements and standards I don't think however that today on our roads, no-one will ever have to do a three point turn, nor do I think sat nav use is vital to safe driving in modern times (useful tho it undoubtably is despite the dinos who think they know where they are going because of the way the moss grows on the cats eyes!)
So the test does not need changing on either point.
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The DVSA said a candidate, for example, may be asked to show how they would operate the rear heated screen while driving.
How about a proper eye test instead of guff like this ?
Today by coincidence
'Satnav error' gets cars stuck in Hampshire field.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-30241880
"There have been half a dozen in the space of six weeks. I spoke to the driver of the lorry who said he was using his satnav."
A Google spokeswoman said: "We encourage people to let us know if they spot a problem in maps by using the Report a Problem tool, found at the bottom right corner of the map, or in the menu in the mobile app, or by contributing their local knowledge and updates to the map using Google Map Maker."
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As well as not requiring people to be able to drive competently or anything like it, the driving test is no longer going to require them to apply any serious lock to their front wheels.
That's a serious criticism. I often see people who aren't capable of turning the wheel more than half a turn even to save their lives, let alone to manoeuvre reasonably briskly and stay out of the damn way.
The modern tyro motorist is a pathetic infantilized creature, and they stay like that for years trying to reduce traffic speeds to zero and running into each other and us. No wonder people are going soft on so-called self-driving cars.
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If this test of low speed car control is binned supermarket car parks could become interesting.
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they are now. 50% of spaces have cars parked in at hideous angles.
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Judging by most car parks lining a car up with a pair of lines is so difficult that self parking cars will become the norm. A simple skill that will be lost to automation.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 28 Nov 14 at 21:15
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I must admit that the Sportage's reversing camera is quite natty in that if you get the lines on the screen on top of the carpark markings it's bang on centre:)
Having said that my first Police driving instructor was pedantic about central positioning and woe betide you if you were a fraction out. Also had a 12" ruler close to hand to reinforce his displeasure.
So I suppose I have carried on the parking behaviour. Mind you the rest of the family don't share my enthusiasm for the perfect park.
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>> I often see people who aren't capable of turning the wheel
>> more than half a turn even to save their lives, let alone to manoeuvre reasonably
>> briskly and stay out of the damn way.
>>
I've often noticed that. It's extraordinary. Modern cars have power steering you can turn with a little finger - why is it so difficult to use it?
One thing many people are abysmal at is reversing. Round us all the roads are single track with passing places, and it is an everyday need to be able to reverse briskly, sometimes several hundred yards round bends if one meets something like a tractor with a load.
It's not helped by cars that seem to have ever-diminishing rear windows, a pathetic pretence of reversing lights, and driven by fat slobs who can't turn round to look behind them.
The test should also include how to pass another car on a narrow road where both have to drive partly on a muddy or grassy verge, and it is vital to keep going and not stop.
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>> Today by coincidence
>> 'Satnav error' gets cars stuck in Hampshire field.
>> A Google spokeswoman said:
Pffft The Google street car got down that road (honestly its on google earth street view) so it must be passable.
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>> Pffft The Google street car got down that road (honestly its on google earth street
>> view) so it must be passable.
We have one or two of those round here, technically a BOAT (by way open to all traffic):
naturenet.net/row/rowdefinitions.html#Byway open to all traffic (BOAT)
I ride one occasionally on a bike but only the MTB. Even dry it's too rough for the Brompton or the Galaxy.
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You are in a town that you have never visited before and looking for 12 Acacia Road. How on earth does knowing which way the wind is blowing navigate you through the one way system to the opposite side of town?
And if you don't have a SatNav how do you know your skills are superior?
Intrigued
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You are mixing two tasks. To find an unknown address, I will have looked at either the map book (I have street plans of Hertfordshire and the area within the M25) or online. I'll either remember enough, or make a few notes.
The wind direction is for bigger stuff, and gives me a crude compass.
As for comparing to a Sat nav, I have a good friend with one, and my brother has one.
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TV aerial direction can confuse, (local transmitters), in an unfamilar area, however the direction of Sky dishes in the UK can keep you dead on track, for when the sun is not visible.
Forget the moss on the north side of trees - aircraft take off and landing (near airports) works well, as long as you know which way the wind is blowing :)
Even piles of windblown rubbish trapped by fences give a good indication of the prevailing wind direction. But leaf blower activity can confuse.
Street view is good for identifying an new address/house location when making a first time visit, allowing selection of a suitable parking position.
Should all these skills be integrated into the Driving Test?
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Sat 29 Nov 14 at 09:40
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>> Should all these skills be integrated into the Driving Test?
>>
Some people struggle with the very basics driving, never mind looking for piles of rubbish and finding out which why the wind is blowing and cross checking it with airport activity all at the same time.
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>> Some people struggle with the very basics driving, never mind.....
The driving test is mainly about car control, followed by rules for safe driving. If a driver is not competent in these finding a destination is going to be beyond them. Driving consists of a multitude of skills, until car control and safe movement become almost automatic in car gagetry and looking at satellite dishes makes new drivers a liability.
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Leaf blower activity confusion is undoubtedly one of the main reasons for driving the wrong way down the motorway.
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>> aircraft take off and landing
>> (near airports) works well, as long as you know which way the wind is blowing
>> :)
Most major UK airports have runways at or close to east/west. Major exceptions are Leeds/Bradford and Birmingham both of which are SE/NW. Also, noise considerations often mean they use one direction for preference even if that results in a tailwind - Heathrow often continues to land to the west when City has changed to easterlies.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 29 Nov 14 at 10:45
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>>noise considerations often mean they use one direction for preference even if that results in a tailwind - Heathrow often continues to land to the west when City has changed to easterlies. >>
If Heathrow preferred to use one direction because of noise considerations then it would be the other way round - surely?
They would land from the West, i.e. come in over the open spaces of Berkshire, rather than Central London.
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>> If Heathrow preferred to use one direction because of noise considerations then it would be
>> the other way round - surely?
>>
>> They would land from the West, i.e. come in over the open spaces of Berkshire,
>> rather than Central London.
Historically, noise preferential routings seem to be about take off although, as you imply, with modern aircraft landings are noisier. Landing noise over London is controlled by alternating between the Northern (27R) and Southern (27L) runways and by the use of continuous descent and relatively high speed/low drag until last 5 miles.
It's operationally problematic to alternate runways when they're on easterlies - something to do with taxi routes/distances to the eastern thresholds.
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TV aerial direction can confuse, (local transmitters), in an unfamilar area, however the direction of Sky dishes in the UK can keep you dead on track, for when the sun is not visible.
Sky dishes are a good point, but I know a lot of the relay transmitters too. I worked for nearly 20 years in the BBC department that answers queries and did part of acceptance tests of many relays. For the last 3 years of it's life I was even on the joint BBC/IBA committee that decided the relay build programme.
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You would have problems using my loft aerial as a direction finder. :)
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The sun can be quite useful in a strange town. If you know the rough direction you are trying to head for, then even if you get diverted round roadworks and one-ways then at each possible turn you have some idea which way to turn.
I don't think wind direction is much help in towns - it has an annoying tendency to blow straight along streets.
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I agree Cliff, if you can see the sun and you know the time you can at least estimate the points of the compass and your most useful direction of travel.
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>> I agree Cliff, if you can see the sun and you know the time you
>> can at least estimate the points of the compass and your most useful direction of
>> travel.
All falls apart at night of course, unless you can spot the north star through the moon roof.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 29 Nov 14 at 13:25
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>> I agree Cliff, if you can see the sun and you know the time you
>> can at least estimate the points of the compass and your most useful direction of
>> travel.
>>
You don't need any of that, it's unlikely to move much in the time it takes to get your bearings back.
I just mean you watch the shadows and keep them roughly in the same direction whenever there's an uncertain decision to be made.
It's not even conscious - like finding your way on an unfamiliar walk. It always impresses people who never notice things like that and don't have a visual kind of mind.
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>> The sun can be quite useful in a strange town.
Yes It helps to have something to read when you are lost.
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Been in the Peak District this week Haven't seen the sun since I arrived. Wall to wall murk.
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>> You would have problems using my loft aerial as a direction finder. :)
>>
You take it with you, obviously, connected to a portable TV.
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Also, reversing round a corner is prospectively being removed.
This is probably the manoeuvre that gives learners most trouble; hence all that rubbish with little markers in the back window to line up with the kerb and so on.
Anybody who can't reverse around a corner can't reverse, basically. I should think quite a lot of candidates fail on this until by chance they get it right, so if anything the test needs strengthening a bit.
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My own Sad Sack motoring game is a version of "I'll name that tune". I call it "I'll park that car".
The object is to decide prior to reverse parallel parking how many moves you'll need. 1s are rare, 2s are are pleasing, 3s are fairly common, more than 4 is embarrassing.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 29 Nov 14 at 15:31
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>>No more 3 point turns>>
Unless, of course, there's a U turn.
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Back in 1985 (or was it 1986?) when I was taking driving lessons I was told it's no longer called a 3 point turn. It had been changed to "turn in the road", whereby you try and conduct the minimum amount of manoeuvres to turn around.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Nov 14 at 17:56
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I find the Merc easier to manoeuvre in a tight space than the physically much smaller Qashqai. Must be to do with the available lock.
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>> I find the Merc easier to manoeuvre in a tight space than the physically much
>> smaller Qashqai. Must be to do with the available lock.
RWD only has to deal with the steering up front, hence much more lock.
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>> RWD only has to deal with the steering up front, hence much more lock.
>>
Big advantage to my mind. One of life's little pleasures is nipping into a tight space in a Volvo estate while a micro car is faffing around trying to reverse in.
The latest name for 3-point turn I am told is "turning between kerbs".
It was always a misnomer - there are actually 2 points.
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>> RWD only has to deal with the steering up front...
Yeah true, better all round really and no trouble at all on the slippy stuff if you can call yourself a proper driver...
;-)
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>> Back in 1985 (or was it 1986?) when I was taking driving lessons I was
>> told it's no longer called a 3 point turn. It had been changed to "turn
>> in the road", whereby you try and conduct the minimum amount of manoeuvres to turn
>> around.
>>
It never was called a 3 point turn, that expression was because most cars are capable of getting round in three on your average road. Instructors and examiners don't like using roads that are too narrow for the 3 points because of the aggro from waiting traffic.
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>> Instructors and examiners don't like using roads that are too narrow for the 3 points because of the aggro from waiting traffic.
My instructor liked giving me tight and narrow roads to turn around in because he knew that come test day I would breeze through it because the examiner would give me a wide road (for the reason you just gave).
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No more 3 point turns - John Boy
