Evening folks, so my Dad is looking at a Saab 9-3 estate (facelift version) 1.9TID. It's up for a fair price £5k and seems in good order cosmetically. I know the earbashing I'm going to get for asking but is this a mental choice or what in your expert opinion?
He has been looking at similar cars, Octavia's, Golfs and Honda but they all seem to baggy at his budget, well into three figures and seeing as this will be a 5 year or so car something with a bit of life in in it would be preferable.
Does anyone have any real world experiences of these cars to help aid a decision come the time when he visits it?
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Aren't they old Vauxhalls in drag? Not real Saabs.
Wouldn't mean they weren't perfectly good cars of course.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 3 Nov 14 at 00:00
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I read NBD's post and thought of writing 'some ignoramus will be along in a minute to say it's really a Vauxhall'. Wouldn't have put money on it being AC.
}:---)
The 9-3 was the car that broke Saab. As I understand it, the problem was that the Vauxhall / Opel source material was so bad that the Saab engineers were embarrassed to put their badge on it. To get it to Saab standards took so much reworking that Saab lost money on every one.
So no, it's not just a Vauxhall. It's nicer to drive and the interior is vastly preferable to any Vauxhall cheesefest. Fine seats too. The Fiat 1.9 diesel is a huge improvement on the rattly GM 2.2 that appeared in the 9-5 although I don't know much about its longevity. A friend runs a 2004 one and seems happy with it - although I'd have to ask him which engine he has.
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Thanks WDB, I remember the Top Gear piece on body and badges about Saab. I knew they were largely GM based, have been for some years. He had Saab in the 80's though they are hardly the same brand as they were, although some elements remained.
This one is a 59 plate, 100k up. He is expecting to add maybe 50k over the next 4-5 years
Amongst the contenders are a Kia Ceed and an Octavia although they are about 1k more. Even with a 6k budget, finding a decent spec diesel estate car is tough. I know there are millions knocking up and down our roads, knowing someone close planning to chuck thousands at a unknown modern diesel makes me feel uneasy.
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Colleague has one with a soft top. I think it's a 59 or 60 plate. He's had it since virtually new and hasn't had any major problems other than the roof unpops itself from time to time, but otherwise he seems content. Says it's a good drive and gives him good economy too.
He complains the satnav was an expensive option (he had the dealer post fit the OEM one, the madman) for well over £1000 and it's apparently a bit slow and clunky. But he didn't want a TomTom cluttering the thing up.
Only thing I can say is he parks next to me, and sometimes when I shut my door in the mornings his alarm goes off, which might be due to the soft top wobbling about or something.
I've only sat in it but it felt a nice place to be. Quality look and feel to it.
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>> This one is a 59 plate, 100k up. He is expecting to add maybe 50k
>> over the next 4-5 years
Then at 5 grand he is being take to the cleaners. That is way over priced. A quick pursue of auto trader would get me one with 50k on the clock for 5 grand.
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>> The 9-3 was the car that broke Saab. As I understand it, the problem was
>> that the Vauxhall / Opel source material was so bad that the Saab engineers were
>> embarrassed to put their badge on it. To get it to Saab standards took so
>> much reworking that Saab lost money on every one.
Thats trying to magic up a fairytale excuse and blame the big bad wolf at the same time.
Ar the end of the day SAAB went under because their cost base was huge and no-one wanted to buy the cars because they were NOT sufficiently different from mainstream GM.
Oh and also lets consider that SAAB came under the the GM wing because they were begged to rescue them, because of the low volumes and high cost base.
About the only unique feature you could say about SAABS (and people frequently did) was the fact you could turn off the dash lights. Fine in dark Swedish forest roads, useless on the brightly lit M25.
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Yes, Z, of course there's more to the Saab / GM story. But GM turned out to be a spectacularly poor choice of rescuer. For me, the crucial mistake with the 9-3 was dropping the hatch version; GM had lazy, me-too ideas of chasing BMW and Audi, when anyone who wanted that style of car could already buy one. Meanwhile those who appreciated the practicality and distinctiveness of the first 9-3 (me, for example; I had one for four years and a 900 before that) were left without a reason to choose another Saab.
Curious, then, that Audi and BMW are now selling hatchback versions of the models that used to be the 9-3's rivals. I rather fancy a 3 GT.
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I looked at the Saab website a few months ago and they were trumpeting that they were "making them again". The small print said "soon".
Then I looked again more recently and they weren't.
Just looked a third time this moment and they are now back saying they are - "soon". So who knows.
www.saabcars.com/
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>> I looked at the Saab website a few months ago and they were trumpeting that
>> they were "making them again". The small print said "soon".
>>
>> Then I looked again more recently and they weren't.
>>
>> Just looked a third time this moment and they are now back saying they are
>> - "soon". So who knows.
>>
>> www.saabcars.com/
perfect example of a pipedream. I do wish they would stop raking over the corpse, its starting to smell.
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I agree, Z. Low-volume car makers can survive if they're selling to people who buy a car as a toy, hence the various improbable supercars the Top Gear adolescents enjoy. Doesn't matter if you have to wait a month for a new alternator - or steering pump - because it's all part of the special experience.
But Saab would have to sell to people who have one car and need it to work all the time. That kind of support requires a big network and deep pockets. Do I like the idea of a Saab instead of an A6? Of course; I regularly see one of the doomed new 9-5s on the M4 and it looks great. Would I buy one? Never.
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NBD,
The problem with Saabs seems to be getting smaller parts for them. Mechanicals are basically GM, but a colleague has one and can't get a replacment for his broken keyfob.
Brother dearly wanted a late-model 9-3 to replace his Astra, but looked into parts availability first ... and opted for a 3 series instead. So I guess the thing would be only to buy at a price low enough that you could afford to write it off if, say, a body panel or windscreen got damaged and you couldn't source a replacement.
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Thanks Gromit, that is a big consideration and one I will relay on.
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>> NBD,
>> The problem with Saabs seems to be getting smaller parts for them. Mechanicals are basically
>> GM, but a colleague has one and can't get a replacment for his broken keyfob.
>>
>> Brother dearly wanted a late-model 9-3 to replace his Astra, but looked into parts availability
>> first ... and opted for a 3 series instead. So I guess the thing would
>> be only to buy at a price low enough that you could afford to write
>> it off if, say, a body panel or windscreen got damaged and you couldn't source
>> a replacement.
>>
I've never had an issue with spares for my 9-5, not that I've needed many. It's knowing where to look which is part of the trick.
NBD, it's worth looking at sites for Saab enthusiasts, where there is often a lot of good advice, if he's really interested - try www.saabtechtalk.com for one. You'll be able to find out about things to look for when buying for example.
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>>Just looked a third time this moment and they are now back saying they are - "soon". So who knows
As I understand it production was started last year, but the company ran into cash flow problems [again] and all but fell over 6 months ago.
I believe that they are seeking refinancing, various options include selling bits or all of the company, but that nothing is really moving. Their original hope was an electric vehicle based on some GM vehicle or other.
They have got some significant debt to clear before they can restart.
I think they have to move forward or admit defeat and accept bankruptcy within a month or so.
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>> 'some ignoramus will be along in a minute to say it's really a Vauxhall
Heh heh... But it is, sort of, up to a point. A friend had a clean looking but endlessly troublesome example (he isn't a car person really at all) and from what I saw of it it lacked the fine detailing I noticed on a real late Saab that I bid for at a Brands Hatch car auction, a sort of jewel-like quality. Wouldn't want to exaggerate but that was the way it seemed to me.
The bidding went above my self-imposed limit and I didn't have the bottle to carry on bidding. The only thing obviously wrong with it was a tattered gear lever gaiter which let a lot of noise into the cabin. Would have been easy to fix, but I feared a trail of other problems.
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Go on, tell us what you bid on, AC.
Around bonus time (handy, but not banker-level) this year, I saw a dealer's ad for a gorgeous 900 Turbo Ruby Edition, one of 500 UK-only three-door specials that were the last of the classic 900 to be imported. I've not got the funds or the space for a toy, and wasn't quite brave enough to throw the nascent S60 Replacement Fund at it, but I still love the idea of one.
So what was it that tempted you?
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A black 2-door 9000 I think, with nice coachlines. The engine was pretty too. Its owner was a dealer I think, moving it on with some other slightly-foxed part-exchanges... It had fuel injection and seemed to run fine, but I didn't have whatever it went for to risk. I bottled out. May have passed up a bargain, but may have saved myself some grief.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 3 Nov 14 at 18:44
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I remember asking my boss if I could have one of these ( below ) in this colour for my company car back when they were current. He got me a green Cavalier SRi instead.
www.classicandperformancecar.com/front_website/octane_interact/modelpicture.php?id=3406
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 3 Nov 14 at 18:50
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There were some two- (and four-) door 900s (sold as 'Sedan' even here) but all 9000s were hatches or 9000CD four-doors, so sounds like yours was a 900.
My 900 will be a three-door hatch. The load area is enormous, and I like the idea of unloading a single baker's delivery tray of Scandinavian viennoiserie from it. (Don't tell Pat but I'm getting quite good at making those.) Of course, I could do that from my other car, but that's German and it wouldn't have the same effect.
}:---)
Yes, Humph, that's almost it. But the Ruby had (uniquely, I think) red bumpers and lower doors too. Actually, given Mrs Beest's recent fondness for kissing concrete with the LEC (and the S60) perhaps grey bumpers aren't a bad idea.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Mon 3 Nov 14 at 18:53
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>> all 9000s were hatches or 9000CD four-doors, so sounds like yours was a 900.
Were the hatches '3-door' then? Perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly, but I remember two doors and a very big rear lid, the hatchback probably. It was certainly a 9000.
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>>Perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly,
Mine was a 9000 with 4 doors. But I would have sworn that it had a boot.
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Wikipedia says hatch also had 4 doors (total 5).
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Years who I bought a 9000 2.3 Turbo S (also available as a less powerful LPT) from the Swedish CarCentre in London. I think they may have just gone into liquidation, as my bankers draft was payable to administrators I think. I flew down from Leeds after work and picked up the car at Heathrow then drove home that evening. It was a large hatch, with a prodigious thirst, awful handling, even with traction control, but had gorgeous Bridge of Weir leather seats. In a straight line it was incredibly fast. Made a great small van to complement our VW Transporters at work. We took it on holiday to the Black Forest once and it proved the ideal long distance tourer, apart from the aforementioned thirst. It was H reg, bought at 3 or 4 yo, but died of electrical problems after two years when I sold it cheap to a garage contract.
Replaced by a faultless Quattro.
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There was a later (1991, I think) 9000CS, with a bigger, less bubbly rear hatch than the original 9000. Still had four passenger doors though.
There were two-, three-, four- and five-door 900s. There was also a smaller saloon, really a facelifted 99, that they called the 90 and may have been two-door only.
If you're remembering four characters in the boot badge, could they have been '900S'? Some of them had that.
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>> There was a later (1991, I think) 9000CS, with a bigger, less bubbly rear hatch than the original 9000. Still had four passenger doors though.
Can't swear to it but it might easily have been one of those.
No doubt if I had bought the thing I would have got round to counting the doors eventually.
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Don't take your love to town WdB.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 3 Nov 14 at 19:01
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Had to look that one up, Humph. Incidentally, Mel Tillis's daughter Pam has one of the best and most expressive voices in country music, a genre not short of a voice or two.
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Thanks for all replies, he has decided against it, maybe a blessing I don't know!
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A friend in Edinburgh had a 9000CS when they were new. I can't remember much about it although he left it with me for a couple of weeks when he flew out of Manchester on his holliers.
I do remember the reg no. though.......S900OCS....nice. Not on Askmid now.
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I so nearly had a Saab. It was 1994 and through children growing up we didn't need another 7-seater to replace the valiant old Espace which had been trouble-free over 120,000 miles. A 9000 2.0 turbo hatchback was a very tempting proposition, but I finally went for another Renault, largely because of the superb Renault garage (Cross Roads in Oxfordshire).
I was so glad I didn't go for the Saab. Two colleagues each got 9000s, saloons if I remember right, which both gave endless problems over lowish mileages, whereas my Safrane, like the Espace, did over 100,000 miles without problems.
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>>Two colleagues each got 9000s, saloons if I remember right, which both gave endless problems over lowish mileages,
Perhaps they were mimsers. Even those late poncy Saabs might respond to a bit f heavyish foot.
Certainly the original Saab 3 cypinder 2-stroke thingy was designed to go faster than its design parameters really favoured while bouncing off snow banks. The only one I drove had that body but with the horrid rough Ford V4 engine, far too rough to be called a Taunus... even that thing felt as if it could move a bit, but I didn't try.
Nice car that one, in some sort of fluorescent yellowy-green and with a terrific dent in one flank. Still felt completely solid and willing.
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With all the talk at the start of this thread about the last 9-3 sharing a lot of the Vectra, but didn't the 9000 share it's platform with the FIAT Chroma/Lancia Thema/Alfa 164? That would put me off.
But it shows they were platform sharing back in the 80s too.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Four_platform
And from that link it says Saab launched a saloon version in 1988.
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In 2006 I bought an 05 plate 9-3 saloon with the 150 BHP diesel and no DPF (the airflow model).
I did 60,000 miles in 3 years and when it came to the PCP balloon I could buy a higher spec lower milage model for £3,500 from a giant car selling place while my final payment was £4,600. I took the voluntary termination and bought a new Audi A3.
The car had one fault in my time - fuel pump at £250 to fix outside of warranty. It had the recirculating filter (?) problem so when the climate control changed the interior air flow it made this "clack clack clack" noise for 20 seconds. The wheel nuts were rusting. The interior was a bit creaky.
The seats are fantastically comfy and the car is great on the motorway - but wallowy on the twisty stuff. If gave me 50 to the gallon mostly dropping to low 40s around town. I loved the nightpanel feature and would love another company to introduce that (although my Yaris is very sensibly illuminated at night).
The gear change from 1st to 2nd when the engine was cold was horrible, truly nasty.
I would buy one over some of the usual suspects but avoid the DPF (if possible) and that example sounds WAY overpriced.
I would probably buy a Volvo now over a German car - partly nostalgia and partly because it isn't German...
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SAAB 9-3 - Worth a thought? - Armel Coussine
