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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
PLEASE NOTE:-
To try and maintain some kind of logical order of discussion, if you start a new subject then reply to this post and remember to change the default subject header.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Nov 14 at 17:42
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One of their drivers (Kamui Kobayashi) wasn't a happy bunny at the Russian GP.
Kobayashi was so uneasy about a repair made to his car's suspension before final practice, he questioned whether to continue.
"Scary!" the Japanese wrote on his Facebook page, in a post seen by BBC Sport. "Last night a suspension defect was found. There's no spare so it was repaired by wrapping it in carbon."
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29658585
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Max Mosley says high costs could see Formula 1 lose more teams
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29789233
A noble aim to have "greener" cars but the cost and complexity may be self defeating and too few teams will survive?
The big four plus Torro Rosso, and a revived Williams even with three cars each , will that still be attractive ? Adding an American team might help things a little ?
Bernie messing about with things and iffy race circuits might doom the whole scene.
What other tweaks can help it survive ?
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There were three teams enticed into F1 by promises of a spending cap - part of Bernies idea that more teams were needed - The spending cap fell apart and those three teams have now all fallen by the way side.
Its more a case of teams ill equipped entering than anything else. They were always also rans, bit of a joke really.
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I prefer the Australian V8 supercar races to F1. Touring cars on steroids with pit stops for tyres and fuel it really makes F1 look like scalextric.
www.v8supercars.com.au
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dying sport tho, Holden and Ford are just stopping making V8 cars in Australia.
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I am sure a big V6 will fit in the cars.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 28 Oct 14 at 08:54
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What cars? Big aussie cars will no longer be made!
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>> What cars? Big aussie cars will no longer be made!
>>
I am sure the Aussies will find big cars from somewhere. Too much money in it, and made from it for it to dissapear.
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>> >> What cars? Big aussie cars will no longer be made!
>> >>
>>
>> I am sure the Aussies will find big cars from somewhere. Too much money in
>> it, and made from it for it to dissapear.
Well. its a bit of a catch 22. Its sponsored maintained and subsidised by Ford and General Motors to sell big Fords and Holdens. And petrol companies to sell lots of fuel for big cars. Alas Aussies are not buying Big Fords or Big Holdens, because they use too much petrol.
Aussies like the racing, but they wont buy the cars. If they wont buy the cars they will loose the racing.
They will be back to racing 2 litre European touring cars again like they had, briefly, a few years ago.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 29 Oct 14 at 21:11
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>>
>> They will be back to racing 2 litre European touring cars again like they had,
>> briefly, a few years ago.
>>
I think Ford and GM will import large cars after they stop production in Australia. Have a look at the future cars section of the Ford Australia website.
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The only ford you will get after 2016 with anything bigger than 2 litres and with a v8 is to buy the mustang. Or a ute.
V8 supercars wont go down well with aussies with only BMWs, Hondas and Volvos.
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I'm no longer a fan of F1, but I did read this yesterday, which I thought was an interesting perspective on the sport's problems:
www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/oct/27/us-grand-prix-formula-one-mario-andretti-f1
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There was something fascinating in a gladiatorial sense about F1 when it was dangerous, they advertised fags, the drivers were jack the lads and the cars sounded like gods of thunder etc. most probably for all the right and good reasons it has all become safe and sanitised.
Which is totally fine. But it's not exciting is it.
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>> Which is totally fine. But it's not exciting is it.
>>
Sadly, no it isn't. I definitely preferred it the first year I watched it on TV. I think I went the whole season before I twigged that the "highlights" I was watching were not the whole race!
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Most probably for all the right and good reasons it has all become
>> safe and sanitised.
>>
>> Which is totally fine. But it's not exciting is it.
>>
No. Lost interest years ago when Ecclestone's politicking became more newsworthy and less predictable than the racing itself.
If I'm going to watch and enjoy any sport I want to see the game-play itself not be bored stupid by endless streams of minutiae and trivia. Over-complex rules and regulations, together with corporate advertising taking preference to action, kill it as well; probably why I've never "got" American football.
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Any race where one car leads from start to finish is boring.
I only watch teh starts and highlights.
Otherwise it's 2 minutes of action and 1 hour 30 minutes of processions.. Rather like a Royal funeral.
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A few years ago I recall Ron Dennis (?) saying the only way to reduce the cost was to have fewer races.
Now we have more races but fewer engines and gearboxes and less development but fewer teams.
looks like he was right.
Should we go back to 10 or 12 races? would certainly tighten up the championship with less chance to recover from a single mistake.
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Ecclestone said: "There is too much money being distributed badly - probably my fault."
He added: "Like lots of agreements people make, they seemed a good idea at the time. I know what's wrong, but don't know how to fix it."
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29868355
Also
The Haas F1 tem was expected to make its debut at the start of the 2015 season but later elected to postpone their entry until the 2016 season.
So that will not boost the number of starters in 2015
Last edited by: henry k on Sun 2 Nov 14 at 00:02
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Caterham F1 team launch crowdfunding bid to raise £2,350,000 to go racing in Abu Dhabi in two weeks:
bit.ly/1uJaKF8 (DT article)
More about the attempt here: www.crowdcube.com/caterham/
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Crowd funding is a funny thing. It ought to be called crowd-donating, hobby-funding or something.
Not that there's anything wrong with it, but its not likely to be a profitable investment.
Not unlike going to a loan shark, the question must always be "if the investment is that good, how come the banks aren't lending?"
Along with, "You've gone broke once, what have you changed, or what are you doing differently, that will stop that happening again?"
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Yes, best way make a small fortune in F1 is to start with a large one.
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I get the impression Marussia were better thought of in the paddock, and they couldn't be saved. Bye bye Caterham, imo.
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I have no idea of the source, or the veracity, but Brasilian newspapers are reporting that Schumacher is expected to die shortly.
"Médicos dizem que adeus a Schumacher está cada vez mais próximo"
"Doctors say that Schumacher's goodbye is closer every moment".
I don't know if there is anything similar in the European newspapers?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 8 Nov 14 at 23:08
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It's all very sad.
I abhorred his ultimate underhand ruthlessness, but greatly admired his ability.. and he's obviously a family man, etc.
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Red Bull face an official investigation after governing body the FIA declared their car illegal at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.
The FIA said the front wings on the cars of both Daniel Ricciardo and Sebastian Vettel were too flexible.
Teams can gain an aerodynamic advantage by front wings that flex downwards at speed.
The team will now probably either have to modify the wings and start from the back of the grid or race under appeal.
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I'm no expert on car racing but why is Sebastion Vettel so far behind.
He hasn't lost his talent or what?
Makes me think Bernie didn't want another Schumacher turns the public off.
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>> He hasn't lost his talent or what?
Main reason is the car is not as competitive. But the last few he had worked around the F1 rules to great advantage. Other teams have always done similar (think Brawn double diffuser).
But he's teammate has done better in the same car....
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sat 22 Nov 14 at 18:59
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>> Main reason is the car is not as competitive.
Apparently he hasn't adapted to the new hybrid engines as well as his team mate has. His driving style suits the old engines better.
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>> Apparently he hasn't adapted to the new hybrid engines as well as his team mate
>> has. His driving style suits the old engines better.
>>
That will help his new team :-)
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>> Apparently he hasn't adapted to the new hybrid engines as well as his team mate has.
He should be better with the under performing Ferrari hybrid engine next season then. Mercedes will still be ahead next season no doubt until the others are 'allowed/able' to develop and catch up.
It's F1 though... one team is often so far ahead. This time all Mercedes powered cars are ahead of Ferrari and Red Bull.
I find it sort of ironic that Honda had their own team (ex Tyrrell/BAR) and then quit. Gave a load of money to Brawn to run what was left of the team (he bought for probably very little) and the car was good. They got a deal with Mercedes for power and with a car working around F1 regulations they won a championship. The team then gets taken over by Mercedes. Meanwhile Honda are coming back and will replace Mercedes as the power unit for Mclaren once again.
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Hamilton Wins, but I can see the headlines now.
Nicole Shirtslinger kisses Lewis on the helmet.
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God you guys are foul... whatever happened to honest clean-minded sexless car enthusiasm? Sitting in front of the box with your things hanging out on the Lord's Day. Tchah!
:o}
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>> Nicole Shirtslinger kisses Lewis on the helmet.
Maybe it would have been more appropriate for Prince Albert of Monaco to have been there instead of Price Harry.
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>> Nicole Shirtslinger kisses Lewis on the helmet.
She really did, at the end of the race. It was on the box.
Damn! I can only apologise for my earlier, tut-tutting post.
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According to the BBC Ferrari new race principle comes from their sponsor Philip Morris - a tobacco company . . .
I thought tobacco sponsorship was banned, or did they just ban putting the brand on the cars?
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I hope Vettel is being well paid walking into what looks like a rather dodgy garage.
We wait for white smoke from the factory ?
Last edited by: henry k on Mon 24 Nov 14 at 17:29
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>> We wait for white smoke from the factory ?
Tee hee hk.. excellent.
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What is the new race principle, will they aim to finish 10th instead of 1st?
That should make things easier.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 24 Nov 14 at 18:03
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>> What is the new race principle, will they aim to finish 10th instead of 1st?
>>
>> That should make things easier.
>>
I know I can't spell, I am an engineer
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>> I thought tobacco sponsorship was banned, or did they just ban putting the brand on the cars?
I think you hit the nail on the head... I have vague recollections over this continued sponsorship deal from years ago and forgot all about it. Mainly because you'd not associate a tobacco company and Ferrari for starters. Wasn't there just a barcode or something for a while (Marlboro?).
What do Philip Morris get from this???
You had to admire the Silk Cut ads of the past even if you were against smoking.
EDIT: www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/338245/Why_Philip_Morris_still_sponsors_Ferrari/
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 24 Nov 14 at 22:29
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I saw an interview on BBC Breakfast this morning, with our new F1 World Champion.
It really struck me how mature and self-assured he has become.
He spoke eloquently, confidently, answered questions well and has developed a very good speaking voice.
Maybe he's had professional help in this, or maybe he's just matured with age, but I was impressed.
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>>Maybe he's had professional help in this
Well, this is what the kids do, so I can only imagine it even more thorough for the adults.
www.addmotorsports.com/programme/
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"We will coordinate every aspect of the transition from Kart’s into Car’s"
Kart's what? Car's what?
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>> He spoke eloquently, confidently, answered questions well and has developed a very good speaking voice.
Did he use his English accent, or the American one that people are currently criticising?
in.news.yahoo.com/lewis-hamiltons-stupid-american-accent-sparks-online-storm-060448894.html
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>> Did he use his English accent, or the American one that people are currently criticising?
>>
Didn't sound to me to be anything wrong with his accent. However he lives in Monaco, has an American girlfriend, if he has any ear for accents at all he is bound to develop a bit of an american accent.
Accent is very much an environmental function, while you may speak with one accent as a child, you will probably develop another or even several others as you grow and move between environments.
My kids have always been able to tell when I am speaking on the phone to any of my Glasgow based relatives / friends despite me having lived in England for the last 37 years.
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My Scottish friends say I now have an English accent, but my English friends say I sound distinctly Scottish.
My wife says I swear in a Scots accent.
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People can put on a accent.I speak with a New Castle accent don't know why never lived there.
Grew up in Rotterdam and when in Holland I still have a Rotterdam accent.
Visiting family in Groningen I soon have to pick up my childhood dialect accent it never leaves you.
My middle son speaks proper posh English he must have got it from his mum..;) Daughter speaks broad Yorkshire out for nout.The oldest lad takes it all in his stride.
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Having had a peripatetic childhood, parents from radically different backgrounds and in adulthood friends from every corner of the earth, I passed through as many accents probably as most people. But being a born parrot I have retained all of them and seldom let a week pass without using them all, for a phrase or sentence at least. The base line is 'posh received' which helps open doors, but I doubt if genuinely posh people think I do it quite right (not that they would care). I have an ear but I'm not a trained actor.
Of course I do some accents much better than others, and apart from that my incessant gabbling in accents my hearers sometimes can't decipher must seem very tiresome to a lot of people. No one's perfect.
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When I'm in the company of Irish people for more than about ten minutes I revert to the accent that was programmed into me for the first eight years of my life and became dormant during my cockney schooldays. I never used to realise I was doing it till a friend pointed it out to me one day after a doubles snooker match with a couple of Paddies.
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Brought up in Leeds but worked in London from age 19 with 'home' gradually migrating north via Harrow and Watford to Northampton. While the northern vowels are a constant my kids are quite right in saying I 'get out' my full accent and bits of dialect only when in. or talking on phone to those in God's own county.
Mrs B's accent is more non-descript, but more southern than mine. I suspect both her parents were put on to lose their accents, certainly her Mother was accentless while sibling Aunt retained a distinct Brummie twang.
My own kids have a bit of Northampton ride my bike is more 'royd moy boyk' but daughter was thought a southerner when at Uni in Sheffield. The Lad is acquiring a bit of scouse......
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Can he hotwire cars yet?
;-)
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Now that he is world champion again, will he start to pay taxes in the UK?
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>> Now that he is world champion again, will he start to pay taxes in the
>> UK?
>>
Would you?
I wouldn't.
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>> I wouldn't.
>>
Would you drape yourself in the Union flag - as he has done?
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 27 Nov 14 at 10:15
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>>Would you drape yourself in the Union flag - as he has done?
Again, why not?
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It is a shame really how so many sportsmen are hyprocrites.
They pretend to like this country and don't pay a penny into the system.The way of the world.
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A hypocrite would be telling everybody else to pay tax and then not paying it himself.
Lewis Hamilton apparently pays all due taxes in the country where he legally lives. He seemingly loves his own country which is not where he lives.
Presumably you love your own country and you pay all relevant taxes in the UK.
I love my country, and I pay all my taxes in Chile.
Where's the problem? Or, indeed, the difference.
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>> It is a shame really how so many sportsmen are hyprocrites.
>>
>> They pretend to like this country and don't pay a penny into the system.The way
>> of the world.
>>
Wouldn't call it hypocritical, as Mark says they are not asking anyone else to do differently.
For sportsmen I can understand it a bit, they have a short time of earning big money before the caareer is over and they have to live on what they earned in the "fat" years. makes sense to hang on to as much as possible while they can at the inconvenience of being separated from family.
Interesting that Andy Murray doesn't do it given that he is in the same position, earning large amounts of money travelling the world with no restriction on where he could choose to stay. Says a lot for the lad's priorities IMHO
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>> For sportsmen I can understand it a bit, they have a short time of earning big money before
>> the caareer is over and they have to live on what they earned in the "fat" years.
For some sportsmen/sportswomen then yes they need to set aside some money for when they retire. But some end up earning such large sums of money that is irrelevant. David Beckham is worth over £200m. Hamilton probably earns at least £20m a year?
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Why would he? He pays all the taxes that he is required to pay.
Do you pay more than you have to?
And why would it make a difference whether or not he is world champion at F1?
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The hypocrites are the Bono's of this world who preach at the rest of us about paying tax while doing everything they can to avoid it themselves - and the Guardian of course, who were embarrassed to be caught doing the same. And the state education advocates who have their children in private schools, along with the National Health fanatics who are treated under BUPA.
Hamilton has never lectured me about where my money should go and I wouldn't dream of doing the same to him.
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I assume that during the F1 season, with races fortnightly or even weekly, the drivers are rarely home. What's expected of them in the 'off' season and is Monaco a centre for the industry's leaders in same way as this corner of England is for the tech side?
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Assume I had enough money to live well in the UK, or better in Monaco.
Hmmmmm
Tough choice.
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Carping about Lewis Hamilton's residential and tax manoeuvres is caused by envy with (I'm sorry to say) a strong racist undercurrent. Naturally he has had much help with the decisions from the professional money people necessary when earnings reach dizzy and unreasonable heights. Only a depressive idiot would decide to spend it all and end up in a council home.
Hamilton is English born and bred, he isn't the only modern celeb to wear jewels and bangles, and he's the current top man in his sport despite considerable competition. What's more he does have a quite winsome 'personality'. How anyone can consider a dalek-like player of the terribly boring game golf as a rival for 'personality of the year' is completely beyond me.
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Well Lewis lived in Switzerland before moving to Monacco. Maybe he likes to hang out with F1 drivers in the closed season? Doesn't Nico Rosberg and Jenson Button live there too?
Actually I bet he's rarely there (although having your own jet must help). In the race season he's all over the place. In the closed season he's probably in the UK a fair bit at the Mercedes F1 team facility.
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>>with (I'm sorry to say) a strong racist undercurrent
What? I don't think so. One could argue the envy side, perhaps one could even argue other prejudices; but racism?
Who has been racist against whom?
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Tsk. An undercurrent FMR, an undercurrent.
No one says it. That would just make trouble.
Anyone can be wrong of course. But I have antennae which sometimes twitch a bit. If yours don't, well and good.
Commenting on everything down to tiny nuances often gets me into trouble. Makes some people paranoid and leaves others bewildered and contemptuous. Helps to keep life interesting though, a bit of pointless shadow boxing, why not?
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It's too easy to find racism, sexism and homophobia everywhere if you want to find it.
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I like Hamilton. Someone who managed to get from where he grew up to be where he is today took quite some determination.
And he started out racing remote control cars... appeared on Blue Peter aged 7. Moved to go carts when 8.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDjRdi5zv-w
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>> I like Hamilton. Someone who managed to get from where he grew up
Stevenage? It was hardly the ghetto, and he didn't exactly have to go to school barefoot.
>> where he is today took quite some determination.
Some of it came from a pushy parent and he was sponsored at an early age.
None of which takes away the fact he is talented and probably deserves the title, tho he was lucky to be in the right place at the right time. (As in the past he has been in the wrong place at the wrong time). A good driver is one who gets a very bad car respectable. Alonso has done that, and been stabbed in the back despite that (Not that I like him)
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Clarkson got the answer from Gerhard Berger (eventually) several years ago as to why racing drivers live in Monaco.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ObRzF8I5DE
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I do like Hamilton, and I suspect in equal machinery he and Alonso would be very close, in that they both get the best out of what they are given.
As a comparison, Vettel is more like Button, in that he needs the car tailored to his style. Until Vettel wins a title in a Ferrari (don't hold your breath) he wont be a 'great', imo.
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>> I do like Hamilton, and I suspect in equal machinery he and Alonso would be very close,
They were in the same car in 2007 when Hamilton nearly got the title in his first season. Alonso didn't like Hamilton being given equal status. They finished on exactly the same points - one behind Räikkönen. So Alonso went to Renault for 2008.
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>> It's too easy to find racism, sexism and homophobia everywhere if you want to find it.
Or even if you don't. That's the trouble. You don't want to see it, you don't want it to be there, but you do and it is.
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>> Or even if you don't. That's the trouble. You don't want to see it, you
>> don't want it to be there, but you do and it is.
+1
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I think we all know where I stand on the question of racism.
However seeing it where it is not, only devalues the debate in situations where it actually is.
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>> However seeing it where it is not, only devalues the debate in situations where it actually is.
Of course, of course.
However even in that post, mightn't you be drifting closer to the well-known Voice of Reason?
If you take it seriously this stuff is a labyrinth, hard to find your way in or out. Under the circumstances I'm content for people to be unsure 'where I stand on the question of racism'. Anyone interested will have sussed it already.
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>> If you take it seriously this stuff is a labyrinth, hard to find your way
>> in or out. Under the circumstances I'm content for people to be unsure 'where I
>> stand on the question of racism'. Anyone interested will have sussed it already.
I think that the 'well known Voice of Reason' and those like you and Bromptonaut are not too far apart on the scourge of racism.
The only real difference is the bit where: "However seeing it where it is not, only devalues the debate in situations where it actually is".
Clear that up and we'd all be signing from the same hymn sheet....
... and further to that, it not only devalues a debate.... IMO I think it causes actual harm to the cause so to speak, because it irritates those that are otherwise decent people who are not so well informed or worldly wise.. and blocks them from getting their head around the real issues that some people have to suffer.
Last edited by: Westpig on Fri 28 Nov 14 at 08:53
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Well said WP.
There have been a lot of questions I would have liked to ask in the past, just to enable me to have a better view of both sides, but no way would I dare because I would have been branded instantly.
Pat
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How the hell did racism raise its head in here as well? Completely unjustified, there hadn't been a sniff of it in this thread.
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>> How the hell did racism raise its head in here as well? Completely unjustified, there
>> hadn't been a sniff of it in this thread.
There was post sometime yesterday. I didn't read it as aimed at anyone here, at least not regarding anything actually post. More a general point about the attitudes of a sub-set of the British population towards Hamilton on grounds of his ethnicity.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 28 Nov 14 at 09:32
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SQ people are getting lazier and lazier around here!
>> There was post sometime yesterday. I didn't read it as aimed at anyone here, at
>> least not regarding anything actually post. More a general point about the attitudes of a
>> sub-set of the British population towards Hamilton on grounds of his ethnicity.
What subset, where are they, have you seen any/many/some of them?
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Nov 14 at 17:38
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Unreasonable accusations of racism simply make it more difficult to attack real instances of racism.
Involving racism in this thread is only causing harm.
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>> How the hell did racism raise its head in here as well? Completely unjustified, there
>> hadn't been a sniff of it in this thread.
>>
AC wrote above:
"Carping about Lewis Hamilton's residential and tax manoeuvres is caused by envy with (I'm sorry to say) a strong racist undercurrent. "
I'm sure he's right, though I didn't think he was referring to anyone here which is what usually starts the fire.
LH may well be the best driver out there, now his temperament seems to have steadied. I'm glad he won the championship. The car is the best of course, but some of his performances have been outstanding.
He may not have come from grinding poverty, but his background was far more 'normal' than that of many if not most on the grid. All credit to Ron Dennis for picking him up at 13 when sponsors for a non-white driver were very hard to find.
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>>I'm sure he's right, though I didn't think he was referring to anyone here which is what usually starts the fire.
Ah well, I thought he was referring to this thread, hence my confusion.
But seriously, do you really think people would pick on his residency and tax payments because of racial prejudice? I am stunned that it has gone that far.
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>> But seriously, do you really think people would pick on his residency and tax payments
>> because of racial prejudice? I am stunned that it has gone that far.
In so far as such thoughts are rational they're perhaps more likely to navigate the process in the opposite direction. Start with a prejudice because of his ethnicity and then add residency and tax to the charge street.
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>>
>> In so far as such thoughts are rational they're perhaps more likely to navigate the
>> process in the opposite direction. Start with a prejudice because of his ethnicity and then
>> add residency and tax to the charge street.
>>
>>
Which is utterly ridiculous. It precludes criticism of any person of an ethnic background on the grounds that people are being racist.
The worst type of racism is the patronising kind so often trotted out these days.
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>> But seriously, do you really think people would pick on his residency and tax payments
>> because of racial prejudice? I am stunned that it has gone that far.
>>
Just envy & jealousy, surely?
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>> I thought he was referring to this thread, hence my confusion.
You weren't confused FMR.
I'm afraid though that fools rush in where angels fear to tread. I'm always doing it.
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>>You weren't confused FMR.
If I wasn't before, I am now.
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Oh good God.
1. I was referring to this thread.
2. I wish I hadn't raised the toxic subject.
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Oh for gods sake Pat, spare us this ruddy shrinking violet act will you. If its anyone dissing lorry drivers you quickly find the the balls to say it come what may.
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Of course, simply because after 30 years of it, I know what I'm talking about.
Asking questions on something I don't understand is a big no though, if it means I get branded as racist.
Pat
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If its a genuine, "I don't know" you are seeking answers to, thats not racist and no-one will brand you as such.
If its "why do only p akis groom young white kids" then you will. Especially when the biggest abuser of white kids in history turned out to be a very white home grown Jimmy saville.
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Too late, it already has happened some weeks ago and no, I haven't got time to go and look for it.
Pat
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>> If its "why do only p akis groom young white kids" then you will. Especially
>> when the biggest abuser of white kids in history turned out to be a very
>> white home grown Jimmy saville.
>>
For me...the bigger angle is the ignoring of it or being unwilling to discuss/challenge it.
Loads of people thought Jimmy Savile was a wrong 'un and up to no good... but did sod all about it because he was famous and wealthy... that is wrong.
Loads of people knew about the men of Pakistani origin grooming and assaulting young white girls.. but did sod all about it, because they were afraid of being labelled racist by raising the issue... and that is wrong.
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>> Loads of people knew about the men of Pakistani origin grooming and assaulting young white
>> girls.. but did sod all about it, because they were afraid of being labelled racist
>> by raising the issue... and that is wrong.
The latest case in Bristol did not involve men of Pakistani (or any other Asian) origin. They were Somalis and have been roundly condemned by their own community.
If laying any sort of charge likely to be countered with an allegation of racism then of course you're going to make doubly sure you're on safe ground and the lily livered might even see it as an excuse to do nothing. Quite wrong however to suggest that such a fear was main/only reason why Rochdale/Rotherham etc were not exposed sooner.
Far bigger problem was attitude of police and social workers who regarded the girls/women making the allegations in much same light as their abusers - as sluts who were willing participants. Sexism and ignorance plaid a much bigger part than fear of racism.
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>> If laying any sort of charge likely to be countered with an allegation of racism
>> then of course you're going to make doubly sure you're on safe ground and the
>> lily livered might even see it as an excuse to do nothing. Quite wrong however
>> to suggest that such a fear was main/only reason why Rochdale/Rotherham etc were not exposed
>> sooner.
I do not agree. I think there is an institutionalised fear of 'doing anything' if it involves 'race'. In fact I don't just think it, I know it.
>>
>> Far bigger problem was attitude of police and social workers who regarded the girls/women making
>> the allegations in much same light as their abusers - as sluts who were willing
>> participants. Sexism and ignorance plaid a much bigger part than fear of racism.
Cobblers.
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>> Cobblers.
Alexis Jay's report into Rotherham only gets as far as the exec summary before concluding:
At an operational level, the Police gave no priority to CSE, regarding many child victims with
contempt and failing to act on their abuse as a crime.
Pretty much exactly the same in Rochdale.
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Who or what is CSE?
Google has the answer
Child Sexual Exploitation
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Nov 14 at 17:44
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Caterham F1 manufacturer goes into administration - henry k
