I've had my Panda for well over four years now. It has done me well, and been extremely reliable but that fault which EML light and nothing been stored has returned, it might be a simple fix, but it could cost me a fortune to find out.
Although it has only done less than 19,000 miles it has been very tough city mileage, today for example I have been driving for four and a half hours, and covered less than 50 miles in that time.
I am also a bit bored of it, it is getting a little bit too basic and I am getting sick of the constant gear changes required because of my 54bhp engine. I am a lot more confident at driving than I was five years ago which means there are times when I want to 'make progress' and it is hard with such a small engine.
The sensible side of me is telling me to stick with the car and take the risk that the problem can be fixed cheaply, but the car fan in me wants a new car. Is it really so wrong to change cars for the sake of it?
I have narrowed my next car down to a new shape Panda but a mid spec one, an i10 or one of the VW Up variants I am almost tempted by a Dacia but that might be taking the uncool to an extreme :p.
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>>I am also a bit bored of it
New car time
>>almost tempted by a Dacia
No
>>VW Up
Better.
drivethedeal.com are doing 3dr Move Ups for £8400 with free insurance for 1 year - PCP required but also means you can get 3 yrs servicing for £199
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 23 Oct 14 at 00:28
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The only thing that puts me of the Up, is the bare metal on the doors, I know it sounds stupid, but they always remind of the Ford Popular trim! The only luxury on those cars was the wheel trims and I think even then they were aftermarket.
Ideally I could do with a slightly bigger boot than I have now, and something with more torque so I am not constantly changing gear every time I have to slow down by 3mph or approach a railway bridge.
I am tempted by the new Panda as the boot is a big bigger, it it safer and more powerful, but 0-60 time is hardly any better than mine, but 0-60 time isn't really the same thing as torque. It is the constant gear changing that is making me fed up of the car.
I will be sad to get rid of it, if I do because apart from this fault it has been extremely reliable. I've had a lot of enjoyment out of it, but coming into its 5th year I just can't help assuming I can get one of the extremely low APR credit offers with fuel savings and everything else a new car will actually cost me little more in the long term.
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Hyundai i20 1.2 Classic - £7635 (£2500 discount)
1.2 Active only £8129 (3 grand off)
Both need a PCP deal to get full discount
Gets under the 120g/km tax bracket and I bet less box-stirring.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 23 Oct 14 at 00:38
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I did think about an i20, I do need a 5 door car though. Would be an ideal size. Could do with a better warranty. Is the only thing that puts me off another FIAT, the car has been great, but the dealers have frankly been a joke. My dads had a very different experience with the Hyundai dealer although the i10 needs its first MOT in January so it will be interesting to see what happens.
Where did you find that i20 offer?
The 1.2 Kappa engine is great, my dad had a 1.4 16v Corsa on hire when his i10 was rear ended, and he just kept commenting how slow and unresponsive it was compared the Hyundai. Where the i10 does feel crap is in the controls, they feel cheap compared to the Panda, but things have improved at Hyundai since then.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 23 Oct 14 at 00:45
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www.drivethedeal.com
Just stick in false email address etc to get the search results - are all brand new UK models direct from UK dealers.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 23 Oct 14 at 00:49
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Thanks, I probably won't be in the market until early near year if I do decide to change anyway, been mad busy atm and hence driving a lot more than usual but if things go quiet I it is not so much of an issue.
I am still very tempted by a mid spec Panda, as the finance deals look very attractive, and they have remote central locking, which is something I miss as mine only has basic central locking.
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Something keeps drawing me to the new Panda, probably because I love mine so much but just seen a £115 down, £115 month deal on a Panda easy. Remote central locking, curtain airbags, air conditioning, roof bars, boot light etc - all stuff my Panda doesn't have. Yet it still has things I like like proper thick tyres, proper suspension, and steal wheels.
The packaging is essential the same, but completely redesigned interior, has 69bhp and is a 1248cc as opposed to my 1108cc. On paper the bigger engine has a lot more torque, so hopefully that will solve the gear changing problem. The finance deal above is a lot better than the one I got lost time and have good credit history (apart from accidentally going over my credit card limit by £20 which I use when I need to spend £100s on customer parts) but soon sorted that.
I think I will wait and time it to make sure I get a 15 plate if I do decide on a new car.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 23 Oct 14 at 01:19
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>> 69bhp and is a 1248cc as opposed to my 1108cc. On paper the bigger engine has a lot more torque, so hopefully that will solve the gear changing problem.
No offence Sheikha, but if you drive a car with a manual gearchange you do it so often that it becomes an unconscious process, up and down playing tunes. If it doesn't even after several years there's something wrong somewhere. Have you tried an auto?
The other thing is that even low-powered cars like Pandas can go at illegal speeds. The only thing holding them back is the driver. So I doubt if you need a faster small low-powered car.
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...just seen a £115 down, £115 month deal on a Panda easy.
Have you done the maths on that? Assuming that's over three years, it adds up to £4,255. What happens then? You are almost £6,000 short of the full price of the car - plus three years' interest. Assuming you won't have that, you're banking now on finding another deal then that keeps your outgoings similarly low - but that partly depends on interest rates staying as low as they are today, and no one really expects that.
And all for what? A car that's essentially the same as the one you have, and that might leave you without a car at all if you can't work out the finances. Think carefully.
...steal wheels...
A special for the Manchester market?
};---)
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>> Something keeps drawing me to the new Panda, probably because I love mine so much
You can't love yours so much if you're thinking of getting shot of it because of one small technical glitch. If you love it so much, then money spent on getting it repaired shouldn't be a concern.
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>> Although it has only done less than 19,000 miles
New car after 19,000 miles in 4 years ? I buy cars that have done 200,000 miles plus and then do 20,000 miles a year for the next 10 years :)
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Here is the best advice, its the best advice for you, but you wont like it or follow it tho.
Save your money so you can buy some property.
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Is a garage for the Panda a compromise?
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For the second time in 10 minutes I find my self agreeing with Z :-) That Panda will go on for years, with the bare minimum of servicing too I reckon!! I'm pretty sure the traffic and road conditions in Rome are somewhat tougher than those of Manchester. Have you seen the way Italians treat their cars ;-)
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Rattle - forgive me for being ignorant on this matter but I have to ask why didn't you take this back to the dealer when in warranty to sort this out?
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Find a good FIAT indie and get them to look at the EML light fault. Alternatively, if it's surious, live with it and run the thing into the ground.
By end of year I'll be writing a 150k mile report on my 05/1.9D 'lingo.
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Missed edit:
>> Find a good FIAT indie and get them to look at the EML light fault.
>> Alternatively, if it's spurious, live with it and run the thing into the ground.
>>
>
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 23 Oct 14 at 10:22
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I think you should rethink the Dacia Sandero.
Firstly it is so uncool that it has come back round the block as very cool!
Secondly you get your 5 doors and much more boot space than the Panda can offer.
The 1.2 petrol engine won't suit you if you are fed up with changing gear. Try the 0.9TCe petrol turbo instead but turn off the eco mode if trying the car out in the city.
My experience of the Sandero and the Logan MCV is that you will need much less warranty work than on a Panda.
Dacias don't seem to attract the sort of mindless hate-vandalism that you have experienced there in Manchester. And you will earn total respect from any Romanians living nearby.
So, test drive a Dacia Sandero Ambiance. Order in white, no point paying an extra £500 for colour and don't forget to specify the spare wheel (comes with full size wheel and tyre) on the order form.
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Is the Panda owned outright? If you just fancy a change sell it privately, borrow some money from the bank and buy an A3 1.6 Tdi Sportback. The one I have is 4yo and despite my early doubts is proving to be very economical to run, comfortable (in SE spec) and practical.93k miles and still tight as a drum. I have no idea about potential future DPF problems though.
Or save your money and put in a future ' house deposit' account.
Is there an echo around here?
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Nothing wrong with buying a new car for the fun of it if you want to you and can afford to, Rats!
I suspect the novelty of a new i10, Up or Dacia for a car enthusiast will wear off before the first repayment on the car loan falls due. If you're changing for fun, change for something that will make you smile every time you walk out your front door and see it.
To be honest, there's absolutely no good reason to change what you already have. You've done the same mileage in four years many of us would do inside 12 months, and the EML light is most likely a minor glitch easily sorted out. On our old Panda it used to come on - and go out again - if I went over a sharp bump in the road. Once sorted, we sold it on at 10 years and 70,000 miles because we needed a 6 seater, but it was still going strong.
I only changed my first Punto (bought for cash) for the 3 series because I was offered it at decent money, and the 3 for the Legacy on a whim. I didn't enjoy the feeling of wasted money paying back for either of them. And having since had three good 'second' cars all bought for what cash I could afford to spend at the time - a Forester, Panda and FRV, by the way, personally I'd be loathe to borrow to buy a car again. For me, there are better things I could spend my money on...
But, you seem to worry a lot about rather minor niggles on your cars, so I'd wonder even if spending (say) £5000 on something second-hand and fun is the way to go for you (if you do, think Japanese!). If that leads you back to buying new (or how about ex-demo?) I can't think of anything more appealing than a 500 Twin Air or new Panda at sensible money.
Edit: BUT Z is right - property makes infinitely more sense long term. As does a pension, especially as you're self employed. Whereas a car is really just an expense when it comes to it!
Last edited by: Gromit on Thu 23 Oct 14 at 11:18
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If you came on and said you were thoroughly bored of your car and wanted to change to something really different, or something with power, then yes, I would say go for it if you can afford it. BUT.... 3 or 4 times in this thread alone you have stated you like the car and would miss it. One of the reasons to change was you enjoy driving more now so want something to 'make progress' Don't then buy another small engine car with little power?
Seems the car you have is perfect for for your use. Save your money.
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I will see how it goes, I am just aware that although very low mileage, it is car killing mileage. People have an idea what could be wrong, but as nothing is been stored there is little go on. However the most likely explanation at the moment is the connection to the lambda sensor might be a bit iffy and the people on the FIAT forum say this is one of the few conditions that will bring up an EML without storing a code.
It is very odd though, as it has behaved itself perfectly for over 2500 miles, then the problem has just come back, seems to happen about every 100 miles or so and the engine feels very funny when it happens.
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Treat it as a challenge.... you must be able to get a diag computer that will read live data (eg Lexia for PSA which is widely available - don't know what the Fiat equiavalent is). Then you can get some base data on lambda, air flow, temp etc (what ever else it measures), then you need to catch it doing it, and have the computer plugged in, and cross check the live data to see which ones looks out of kilter. Surprised it will put the EML on without setting a fault code, but again, it might just not be an OBD code - with the proper reader you may find an internal fault code.
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>> I will see how it goes, I am just aware that although very low mileage,
>> it is car killing mileage.
Just give it an occasional Italian tune up instead of treating it like a district nurses car and it'll be fine.
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I actually have proper FIAT software written for FIATs which does give all the live data. Two machanics have also looked at it, the problem is 99.9% it is fine and nothing wrong with any of the data, that is why I suspect it is a connector or wiring loom issue.
I do give it an Italian tune up every so often, and initially it did seem to cure the problem for about 2000 miles.
I don't want to cause a thread drift, but here is the a thread about I made about the issue.
www.fiatforum.com/panda/357311-panda-misbehaving-again-eml-light-loss-power.html
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If you can reconcile yourself to it, you'll avoid making yourself poorer by hanging on to it. Boy's is 9 years old, about 55,000 miles I think, well neglected and no problems (it's a 'Dynamic' so slighter more powerful than yours).
If you must change, does it have to be new? Motorpoint has a rake of Hyundais, i10 & i20, and Fiestas - a 5 door Fiesta should feel like a step up.
Incidentally - if I had to use borrowing, and I had a car that worked, I'd definitely be hanging on to it. Set up a NISA and drip that spare £100 a month into something like this for the long term, assuming you already have some cash savings -
uk.standardlifeinvestments.com/O_M_Gars/getLatest.pdf
If you have no savings, don't even consider borrowing for a newer car.
Just my opinion based on minimal knowledge of your circs. I am not qualified to give financial (or motoring) advice.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 23 Oct 14 at 13:47
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Knowing that your type of driving is mostly much like mine....the same streets and urban areas, consider an automatic....a slushbox if possible. They are a complete revelation to former city manual drivers.
Our 1.6 Note would do you fine.......with 110 bhp, it doesn't hang about when you need it to pick it's skirt up a bit. 5 doors, big boot with false floor to hide things. Space saver spare and the back seats roll forwards a bit if you need more boot space.
We got an ex-motability one at 3 years old. Now 8 yrs old with only 33 K on the clock. Chain cam as well.
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Some good advice just posted on that other thread.... I wonder in fact if it is not the EML light coming on for a fault, but rather that the engine has stalled? Next time it does it, dip the clutch quick and see if the engine is in fact running, and hasn't just stalled.
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If that was the case wouldn't the battery and oil pressure lights also be on? The problem is it only happens for a couple of seconds so by the time I react it is all back to normal again.
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>> If that was the case wouldn't the battery and oil pressure lights also be on?
No, because as the car is still in gear, the engine will still be spinning over, keeping the oil pressure up and the alternator turning.
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>>Although it has only done less than 19,000 miles it has been very tough city mileage, today for example I have been driving for four and a half hours, and covered less than 50 miles in that time.
Rattle are there no other options available to you for that mileage and use? I know you carry PC bits and pieces but could this be done on a scooter or electric bike? Car Club? G Whiz or something like that?
You are doing 5000 miles a year, 100 miles a week, maybe 20 miles a day. A panda would be ideal for that but I don't think you will find any car that is perfectly suited to do 50 miles in four and a half hours. That's below bike pedaling average speed?
As a self employed do you have entry to a cycle to work scheme or a self employed equivalent so that you are not facing up front bills?
And whatever you do, try and get your own car's problem fixed first!
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>>I am just aware that although very low mileage, it is car killing mileage.
Yes. The sort of mileage that will kill a car in 150,000 miles rather than 300,000 miles. You might need a clutch at 50,000.
Not a reason for a new car that is eating into your house deposit money. How many more years do you want to live with your parents????? Now, of course, if you want to change your car for the hell of it, then do so. But don't *ever* complain on here again about living with your parents/being skint!
The most 'fun' I've ever had in a car I've owned was a Formule E Polo, c. 1984 vintage at 20 years old. Rev the nuts off your car and you'll be surprised what it can do.
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>> Rev the nuts off your car and you'll be surprised what it can do.
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I wondered if it was being driven like a diesel and changing up to early (or changing down too late.)
Give it some wellie !!
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Since everyone is carping at the Sheikh, I have to say I have been wondering just how Italian his alleged Italian tuneups really are.
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Well, he has cast his bread upon the waters and we have all said our piece, so let's see what happens:)
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So... I am 40 years old and passed my test age 17. I have a list of cars I have owned to 24 years old and then "we" (the Mrs and I) have owned since and it totals 28 cars.
We bought our first house in 1998 and then a run down in 2000 that we made a lot of money from. Our timing on the property market and the REALLY hard work we did to do up the run down has set us up nicely in life.
To get the deposit for our first place we sold the Mrs nearly new Clio and instead bought a £500 mini. it could be argued that the £4,500 released from that car sale is worth £225,000 now (if we kept the car and rented what would an L reg clio be worth now?).
That said if I could go back in time and give myself some advice it would be that 11 of those cars were completely unnecessary and with a more prudent (less emotional/egotistic) choice of cars then I would be far better off now and able to afford to enjoy some of the choices I couldn't (really) back then.
£1 spent on a new car now will be worth 40 pence in 3 years time. If that doesn't impact as an opportunity cost then buy away.
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>>Since everyone is carping at the Sheikh
Really? I certainly hope you don't think I am, as I am not at all I certainly meant mine as a spot of friendly advice, and I think everybody else comes across that way too.
It might be a smidgen less friendly to point out that Rattle doesn't much like driving and doesn't do much of it. This makes his idea of changing his car for a 'better car' seem quite barmy! Moreover it will be brand new and scratch free and the only thing that attracts scratches more than a car parked in the street is a brand new car parked in the street. New cars are for people with garages...
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>> It might be a smidgen less friendly to point out that Rattle doesn't much like driving and doesn't do much of it. This makes his idea of changing his car for a 'better car' seem quite barmy!
Tsk! Carp, carp... Even friendly and benevolent carping like ours is still, well, carping.
:o}
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 24 Oct 14 at 14:31
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I was just trying to pause the thread a bit before the carping turns to harping, pending some thoughts from the Sheikh. Some hope!
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Time to buy a new car? - Lygonos
