The Peugeot thread got me to thinking, if someone wanted to buy a current car, as in one on sale new or new-ish now, with a view to keeping it indefinitely, what does the panel think would be the clever long term choice?
I'm going to start the bidding with a car like my wife's, an entry level ( so no fancy fandangles to go wrong ) Nissian Qashqai 1.6 ( chain cam ) petrol manual.
And you?
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It was with misgivings that I sold our 12 year old Civic 1.6 auto. Mechanically perfect and the mechanic I sold it to reckons there's years of life in it.
Your Squashy is probably a good suggestion.
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Everlasting cars... Hmmmm...
Something Meccano-like, renewable top to toe like the proverbial axe. Lotus 7 or Caterham.
There was an ugly but strong and aerodynamically efficient fibreglass shell, 2 door coupé of course, that used BL Mini running gear (still made in small expensive quantities by specialist makers). One of those would be everlasting in the right hands. Always fancied one - I love ugly ducklings - but can't remember its name and can't be bothered to go googling around... someone here may have it on the tip of their tongue of course, but I'm not optimistic.
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Are you thinking of a mini Marcos AC?
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>> Are you thinking of a mini Marcos AC?
Yup, thanks Humph. One of those, with soft old suspension units and expensive dampers, and a revvy zippy 1071cc engine not the more powerful 1275cc which was all very well for racers, and the very highest final drive ratio, 2.9 to 1 I think. No need for a noisy straight-cut 5 speed gearbox either (all very well for racers)... a semi-comfortable fairly rapid very economical road runner, capacious for two, ugly but fairly unobtrusive.
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There is a local Mini Marcos in BRG registered in the 1960s used as a daily driver less than 2 miles from us..
Last edited by: madf on Wed 22 Oct 14 at 18:48
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>> Mini Marcos in BRG registered in the 1960s used as a daily driver less than 2 miles from us..
The right sort of neighbour madf.
An everlasting car is a tremendous labour of love though, a lifetime of commitment. A couple of generations quite often, understanding wives/husbands, decent amounts of credit if not actual money. It isn't every dad who has a driveable vintage Bugatti, and it isn't every son who can cope with a heritage of that sort.
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I already did that exercise when I chose the lancer. Japanese built, fairly low tech, simple. It will go on till the tin worm starts to eat it. The little money I have spent on its servicing in my tenure is astonishing.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 22 Oct 14 at 18:16
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A really difficult question to answer these days. I reckon Zero has it right in simple Japanese tech if asked 10 years ago, now? Not so sure. What was the last car fitted with Toyota's UZFE 4.0l V8? :-)
The small petrol turbo route worries me somewhat. How about a nice normally aspirated 330i?
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>> The small petrol turbo route worries me somewhat.
>>
I am glad that I am not alone in thinking that the turbo petrol lawnmower sized engines are not the best automotive innovation since go faster stripes.
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>> Lexus LS and GS 430.
Very reliable yes, but hideously complex. When something does eventually go wrong, it is likely to be very expensive n no small part due to the need for professional labour and equipment. Heavy cars also munch suspension and brake components.
In terms of the OP's question, I am not convinced any car on sale today will be a good proposition to keep for years, mostly because you simply can't diagnose faults without prohibitively expensive kit and years of training. This means professional labour, the costs of which on a 20 year old car, makes no sense whatsoever.
For a "forever" car, you need rust resistance, easy DIY labour, and cheap, readily available parts. Almost everything built in the last 10 years cannot be fixed by anyone other than professional technicians with expensive kit.
Most 15-20+ year old cars I see running around are Peugeots (106, 306, 405, 406) and Citroens (AX, BX, ZX), which seem almost as mechanically reliable as Japanese cars, but with much better quality bodywork. That said, you'd be mad to pick anything French in terms of a current production car.
I can't get past the idea of an XUD engined Peugeot 306 for this task. An engine proven for 500,000 miles, and a mechanical setup in so many vehicles you can get parts (or even a good secondhand replacement) anywhere, a body that doesn't rot, and general ease of maintenance. Either that or a petrol engined sixth-gen Civic.
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>> I already did that exercise when I chose the lancer. Japanese built, fairly low tech,
>> simple. It will go on till the tin worm starts to eat it.
Or a bus?
;>)
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I think I'd go with some sort of Japanese pick up truck, a Nissan Navara or some such.
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I think you'd have to go back to the 1960's or 1970's to find something that is completely future-proof.
It would need to be simple, infinitely rebuildable by a competent home mechanic, by which I mean bodywork as well, and relatively free of electronics. Made in such quantities as to ensure that second-hand spares are freely available and preferably fashionable enough to allow a comprehensive cottage industry in after-market parts should the original manufacturer come to grief.
I like sooty's suggestion but if allowed my own choice based on the first paragraph of my reply I'd probably go for a series Land-Rover.
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to ensure that second-hand spares are freely available and preferably fashionable enough to allow a
You'd probably need a it if you were to go for ;-)
a series Land-Rover.
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In fairness you've right plenty of spares even for ones decades old. My experience tells me you'd need them and they are god awful to drive.
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I don't believe such a car exists anymore.
My own experience with petrol turbo engines is they start smoking at around the 80 or 90 thousand mark and with NOx emissions being the same as diesel for Euro VI the same filter issues as diesel will no doubt rear their ugly head at some point.
I've broken the EGS in the bosses car tonight. Been waiting over two hours now for Citroën service activated roadside assist.
The car was serviced on 7th October this year. Flagged up a warning message two days later,my wife took it straight back, then tonight in rush hour traffic pulled over to let oncoming traffic through, everything working fine, no noises, smells or anything to suggest anything was wrong, no drive. No forward gears, no reverse and a engine failure message, do not dive.
With no gears to go at there's not much chance of that.
It's getting a bit nippy here at night.
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 22 Oct 14 at 19:11
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Like others here I think the days of choosing a bomb proof car which will last for years and give good reliability are long gone.
During my eleventeenth MLC I bought a 6?yo Mazda 626 for £995. Two litre petrol, about 120 horses, 35mpg & low 40s on a run, practical 5 door hatch with leather and large sunroof. Ran it for a number of years and sold with confidence to a friend.
I certainly don't miss it, but doubtless it is still running around somewhere.
What to buy now? No idea at all.
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That's the thing though isn't it? There were indeed vehicles which could be kept going with a combination of enthusiasm and a hammer but they probably don't exist as available to buy new now.
However, I rather suspect even now there are some which are still more durable than others. You'd think anyway, that such cars would be favoured in markets where transport considerations are viewed in a more utilitarian way. Toyota Hilux maybe?
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You'd think anyway, that such cars would be favoured in markets where transport considerations
>> are viewed in a more utilitarian way. Toyota Hilux maybe?
>>
Absolutly, I travel quite often in such 'markets' japanese pickups trucks rule
tinyurl.com/o2hyqpr
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>> You'd think anyway, that such cars would be favoured in markets where transport considerations
>> >> are viewed in a more utilitarian way. Toyota Hilux maybe?
>> >>
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>> Absolutly, I travel quite often in such 'markets' japanese pickups trucks rule
>>
>>
>> tinyurl.com/o2hyqpr
The ISIS troup carrier.
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>> The ISIS troup carrier.
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Well it's wasn't quite the picture I wanted and I couldn't load mine, but they aren't a circus you know ;-)
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>> The ISIS troup carrier.
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Have you noticed how Toyota and Nissan no longer have their names in big letters across the rear of these utility vehicles?
Maybe some press can be bad press after all.
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>> That's the thing though isn't it? There were indeed vehicles which could be kept going
>> with a combination of enthusiasm and a hammer but they probably don't exist as available
>> to buy new now.
>>
Those with longer memories than mine will hark back to the days when a cylinder head decoke was essential every 20 thousand miles, and cars which had gone "round the clock" without having at least the head off were very rare indeed. Nowadays it's by no means unusual to find engines with twice that mileage running perfectly well with only routine servicing needed, and with heavy commercial vehicles you can double that.
Downside to that of course is that manufacturers need to sell new vehicles in order to survive, therefore the well-known principle of planned obsolescence comes into play. There needs to come a time after which it is not financially worthwhile for the average car owner to keep a vehicle on the road, and the only way to do that is to make major component repair and replacement prohibitively expensive, usually by turning key spare parts into unobtanium.
Worth noting that you rarely see cars nowadays with substantial underbody welding repairs, such as was common on the likes of Ford Escorts and Cortinas after only a few years. Usual reason is the prohibitive cost of replacement body panels, and the complexity of same in modern, more crashproof cars.
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>> Toyota Hilux maybe?
Why not? But many, many others as various shrewd posters have pointed out with reference to their own jalopies.
I have a range of dream cars but really I'm better at cars than money so they remain dreams. Like many I have to make do with what I can get, especially if it's free or nearly so. The one I've got seems a durable old nail in the modern domestic-appliance manner. No tuning needed but oil and filter changes, transmission oil too! And keep an eye on fluid levels, tyre pressures and so on.
I often fancy an efficient 40mpg Oriental projectile, but I can't afford it.
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>> It's getting a bit nippy here at night.
Set fire to it.
;-)
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>> >> It's getting a bit nippy here at night.
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>> Set fire to it.
If he bough Kevins Tesla he wont have to wait long.
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>If he bough Kevins Tesla he wont have to wait long.
When petrol is £50 a litre you lot will be on shanks pony. I'll cruise past in my Tesla, charged from my compost-powered generator, without a care in the world.
Don't worry, I'll smile and wave.
tinyurl.com/o5f2lpu
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>> When petrol is £50 a litre you lot will be on shanks pony.
>>
Your batteries will be knackered before then.
Toyota warranty their hybrid batteries for eleven years and unlimited miles though.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 22 Oct 14 at 20:26
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>Your batteries will be knackered before then.
I'll use recycled i-Thing batteries and you'll still be on shanks pony.
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>> I'll use recycled i-Thing batteries and you'll still be on shanks pony.
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If petrol is £50 a litre you won't be able to afford the electricity to charge them.
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>If petrol is £50 a litre you won't be able to afford the electricity to charge them.
"Wed 22 Oct 14 20:13
.. I'll cruise past in my Tesla, charged from my compost-powered generator, without a care in the world."
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>> Don't worry, I'll smile and wave.
Dont wave what ever you do, it will fan the flames.
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>Dont wave what ever you do, it will fan the flames.
Dont wave what ever you do, it will fan the flames inflame the fans.
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It's French and diesel. Cold day in Hell before it would do anything useful.
See, this is what main dealer servicing gets you...
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This should be OK for Zero, his mutt might have trouble getting in the back though.
tinyurl.com/yh7wwms
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>> This should be OK for Zero, his mutt might have trouble getting in the back
>> though.
>>
>> tinyurl.com/yh7wwms
No problem, I have to train her to climb a 6 foot wall for Field trials. That tailgate can't be more than 5 foot off the ground.
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Electric parking brakes scare me.
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My modus operandi these days is up to a grand, hope to get three years from it, be content with two and smiling with four or more.
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A 2 litre petrol auto Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord or Subaru Legacy
Unstressed well proven motor, regular fluid changes on the box to minimise wear, popular enough in large markets that sourcing parts shouldn't be a problem.
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>> My modus operandi these days is up to a grand, hope to get three years
>> from it, be content with two and smiling with four or more.
>>
Same here, although I'm a bit flexible on the grand these days; current Astra cost 1400 and has covered 40K in the last two and a bit years. I've just treated it to cambelt kit/water pump/ oil change / new ARB drop links / brake pads and disks; up to that point my total maintenance expenditure was under 50 quid over the first 2 years.
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This doesn't quite answer Runfer's original question - but rather than a current car, I think we need to look at a 'sweet spot' in time when components in general had become more durable and reliable, but before ECUs took over engine management. To replace one of these costs more than an old car is worth.
A Volvo from the late 1980s maybe, or a Toyota that was rustproofed from new?
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>> This doesn't quite answer Runfer's original question - but rather than a current car, I
>> think we need to look at a 'sweet spot' in time when components in general
>> had become more durable and reliable, but before ECUs took over engine management. To replace
>> one of these costs more than an old car is worth.
>>
>> A Volvo from the late 1980s maybe, or a Toyota that was rustproofed from new?
>>
I'd still use a late eighties Cavalier mk3 with the 2 litre 8V engine as a daily driver, a fairly simple car by modern standards.
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It's not always picking the right engine which makes a durable car, simple suspension and brake design would come in to the equation for me. Leaf springs, live axle and rear wheel drive.
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I had one of those Cavaliers, loved it. More oomph than the 16v ones that followed.
The saloon had a brace behind the rear seat back rest. One of the spot welds failed on mine, not sure how indicative that was of build quality.
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>> This doesn't quite answer Runfer's original question - but rather than a current car, I
>> think we need to look at a 'sweet spot' in time when components in general
>> had become more durable and reliable, but before ECUs took over engine management. To replace
>> one of these costs more than an old car is worth.
>>
>> A Volvo from the late 1980s maybe, or a Toyota that was rustproofed from new?
>>
My point exactly. I might be tempted by a Volvo myself from slightly earlier; had a 1986 Volvo 340 for a couple of years, not everyone's choice but it was solid, comfortable and reliable.
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Ok try this, the Lord High Dictator of The World has passed a new law, everyone who wants one can have a brand new car of their choice tomorrow free of charge. All other cars will be crushed.
However, there's a catch, you have to keep it for the rest of your life, you can't have any other car or the use of one, you will have to insure and fuel it and keep it maintained at your cost. It's a one off offer and you won't ever be able to swop it, sell it or replace it. It is your only and last car.
What's it going to be?
It must be available to buy new now.
;-)
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That's a tough one Humpy............There might still be some of these, new, in showrooms somewhere.
Hindustan Ambassador, Isuzu diesel, black with better tyres. Satisfies my classic car wants as well as being practical and mendable at the roadside...almost !
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Till death us do part...?
Much as the title says, it is probably a toss up which lasts longest, me or the Yaris.
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Hmnnnn... Good question.
Will need to think hard but something like a Civic Type R maybe? Fun enough not to get bored but not ruinously expensive to run and the Honda k20 unit is well proven.
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Toyota Pick up...4x4 with the optional .50 calibre machine gun mount
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Can I order a C63 AMG estate please? Deliveries start in April, but I think it's available to order now. I'm happy to fuel, insure and maintain it indefinitely.
And after all, there'll be another special offer once in a lifetime never to be missed opportunity along at some point... ;-)
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Would have to be something fully or partly electric. I'd like to live another 50 years and be driving for most of that time, and a piston engine of any kind will look (at best) like a bakelite wireless well before then. Trouble is, I don't think any of today's full electrics is a complete enough package. So, sorry to duck, Humph, but I don't see an answer just yet.
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Think the latest Tesla Model S with 4WD, 0-60 3.2s and around 270 mile range would do just fine. Even drives itself when you've had a few jars and want to nap in the back on the way home.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0vdNNzwxk
Interviewer is annoying as hell tho.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJXvgEJgTzk
This Swedish chap has done a few videos - apparently his 50,000km Tesla batteries lost around 1% of their capacity over that time.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 22 Oct 14 at 23:45
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>> So, sorry to duck, Humph, but I don't see an answer just yet.
The Lord High Dictator does not permit "ducking"
To answer my own question, I'd most likely have another E Class estate. If you wanted something which might with care do a million miles and could be used for most purposes a car might be needed for and in which you'd be unlikely to feel hard done by in...
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Volvo S60 Polestar. You only live once.
Last of the 3 litre sixes. One of the prototypes would have been nice with 500+bhp but the standard 350 will do.
I'm not planning on driving more, the older I get the less I want to drive in every day traffic.
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For the price of a new car you could buy virtually any old car you liked and get it professionally restored to new condition.
Or you could just buy an old Volvo 240 and use it anyway.
The point is though that most people don't buy cars for their useability and longevity, they buy them as fashion statements to demonstrate their status and aspirations.
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See Rats's Panda thread.
};---)
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Easy
M4 convertible. Just so long as it is homologated to fit a tow bar .
Wind in the hair. Enough horses. HUD.
Should last me 16 years if the current 10yo 330 is anything to go by.
Can I have decent all weather tyres please?
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Till death us do part...? - Manatee
