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I have developed a new type of fuel saver and you can see a short video by entering ' G ZERO FUEL SAVER' into google or youtube. I would be very grateful for any observations or comments. Many Thanks
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 12 Oct 14 at 23:06
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N.B. Permission has been given for this post. No spam reports or otherwise please.
In the words of the OP - "I am a private individual (retired) who has spent 3 years working on fuel saving and just need to get feedback from other motorists in order to further improve my device. I built the prototype and made a patent application myself as I really believe this gadget could be of use in helping motorists save fuel and reduce emissions."
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Seems the OP's looking for more critique after the discussion ground to a halt on HJ: www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=106784
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Its quite cool, and it obviously works. But I think the question is really would I pay for it? - good ideas are not always good business.
And I regret I would not.
If someone gave me one, then I'd probably stick it in the windscreen until it annoyed me or fell off. But I wouldn't pay for it as I wouldn't find it valuable enough.
Tell me not to brake hard or accelerate hard and I've got it. A gizmo might be fun but is hardly needed.
Other people may very well differ, but whilst I think it is clever I do not think it is a business opportunity in and of itself.
Perhaps you could approach people who do things like "Christmas Drivers' Kits" and get it included along with the air freshener, triangle and sticky on curvy mirror thingy.
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What's a 'fuel saver'?
It's either good advice, thanks but we know that already, or a magic device (go forth and multiply you damn conman).
In fact, go forth and multiply. Yibble yibble... STFU.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 13 Oct 14 at 00:22
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Once the vehicle has reached the desired speed, just ease back on the throttle until the required momentum is maintained and Bob's Your Uncle.
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>> just ease back on the throttle until the required momentum is maintained and Bob's Your Uncle.
Well exactly. Easy as rocket science. You don't even have to think about it, hardly anyway.
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My theory is accelerate hard, drive fast (ish). It keeps the DPF happy. Flooring it up a long uphill motorway slip road blows all the crap out of the engine and exhaust. As you may have realised I ignore the eco gear change indicators integrated into the instruments and the last thing I need is a spirit level reflecting in my line of sight.
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My philosophy is get a car which suits your needs and just use it. Fannying about trying to squeeze an extra mpg or two out of it would tend to indicate you've bought a car which is intrinsically too thirsty.
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I know how to drive economically, don't need a device.
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Mr Laud has been punting this around all the motoring forums that he can find.
I don't think it's going to be a commercial proposition. I can remember vacuum gauges from the 60s? which relied in the driver keeping the smallest possible throttle opening. That idea didn't last long.
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Oh the joys of vacuum driven wipers. :)
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>> I can remember vacuum gauges from the 60s?
>> That idea didn't last long.
Oh, I don't know. A vacuum gauge was fitted to a 1983 Audi 80 that I once had as a courtesy car.
I think the OP's device would get on my wick after a while and be nothing but a distraction to my vision.
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>> Mr Laud has been punting this around all the motoring forums that he can find.
Good for him. He's doing research as well as garnering publicity. Doesn't mean the device is any use but that applies to a lot of successful products
>>
>> I don't think it's going to be a commercial proposition.
It needs development. I'm sure the inventor knows it needs a better interface/appearance.
I'd also be looking to add more utility to provide more perceived benefit . At the very least a head up speed display, and maybe some optional engine gauges. Stuff that could run off the OBD port, either via a cable or bluetooth.
As a commercial idea though it's going to be a challenge. Stuff like this can be made for pennies in the far east by people who aren't going to respect patents - you need them to make it for you to get it to market at a low enough price but unless you have an established, protected brand to market it with you'll have a hundred head on competitors if there are any sales to be had.
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>> I'd also be looking to add more utility to provide more perceived benefit . At
>> the very least a head up speed display, and maybe some optional engine gauges. Stuff
>> that could run off the OBD port, either via a cable or bluetooth.
Having had this fairly obvious brainwave, on the basis that there's nothing new under the sun, here's the result of a search on alibaba -
goo.gl/9SUAE3
Speak to manufacturer, get them to add a g-sensor, and hope you can hang on to it!
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>>>> Mr Laud has been punting this around all the motoring forums that he can find.
>>Good for him.
Ditto. Better than ignoring the world.
However, I've had a thought; I am sure that my 1998ish Landcruiser had a G Force meter in a little console along with pitch and roll gauges and a compass.
I am sure I remember doing the braking/accelerating and cornering thing with it.
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"I know how to drive economically, don't need a device."
Absolutely, it's preaching the converted. Maybe he should approach those mumsy toddler forums. Or those 'how to save money' financial type of website.
I wouldn't have any aftermarket Halford tat cluttering the dash, and the graphics need a professional touch. And I saved thousands, not pennies, by switching to LPG.
I remember back in the 80s when the old man's Peugeot had a 'green, amber, red' economy light on the dash, I used to get obsessive trying to keep it in the green so perhaps I did save (him) a few quid. Anyway, my LS shows instant MPG, in fact, the last 6 cars I've owned have had that feature and I use it as a game to keep the MPG as high as possible. It's my obsessive nature. Although to be honest, I used in the Jag to try and get it to read 1 MPG. Much more fun... secretaries loved it.
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>> My theory is accelerate hard, drive fast (ish). It keeps the DPF happy. Flooring it
>> up a long uphill motorway slip road blows all the crap out of the engine
>> and exhaust. As you may have realised I ignore the eco gear change indicators integrated
>> into the instruments and the last thing I need is a spirit level reflecting in
>> my line of sight.
>>
I notice the elderly matelot has copied my driving style. Before my LEC goes in for its MOT, I floor it from a low speed two or three times up to about 85 - 90 mph. That blows all the crud out of wherever it accumulates. It doesn't have a DPF thing.
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Copied indeed!!! I am a geriatric boy racer (ish). :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 13 Oct 14 at 09:00
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>>Before my LEC goes in for its MOT, I floor it from a low speed two or three times up to about 85 - 90 mph...
Blimey, you mean you don't drive it like that all the time?
Sheesh.
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>> >>Before my LEC goes in for its MOT, I floor it from a low speed
>> two or three times up to about 85 - 90 mph...
>>
>> Blimey, you mean you don't drive it like that all the time?
>>
>> Sheesh.
>>
SNAP!
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My car has this as one of its displays. A bit more comprehensive than a spirit level.
tinyurl.com/l6erm2u
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The Jazz has a green ECO light - which shows you saving fuel - surprisingly good at 65mph - and a digital MPG readout on various trips..
Modern ECUs and electronics means these cost makers pennies to add,,,
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On my car, if you select the right display you see - '2 cylinder mode' if you're driving in such a way to need only a small effort from the engine, e.g. cruising on a motorway. MPG obviously goes up when it does this. Likewise lift off and coast in economy mode and the engine drops to idle.
Now I'll have to see how many MPG I can manage if I really try :-)
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>>My car has this as one of its displays. A bit more comprehensive than a spirit level.
>>tinyurl.com/l6erm2u
It's also got a handbook for it the size of a small bible. ;>)
I'm trying to understand it now.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Mon 13 Oct 14 at 12:47
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>> It's also got a handbook for it the size of a small bible. ;>)
>>
>> I'm trying to understand it now.
>>
Still working on mine too, its handy being able to leave a USB stick full of music plugged into the socket in the glove box.
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>> > That blows all the crud out of wherever it
>> accumulates.
Do modern cars really produce crud?
I thought that was only in the days of redex trickled down open carburettors to put off having to do a proper de-coke.
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>> >> > That blows all the crud out of wherever it
>> >> accumulates.
>>
>>
>> Do modern cars really produce crud?
>>
Modern diesels did pre DPFs, potter around town for a week and then give it a full bore acceleration and you will see the clear out in your mirror. I assume that the DPF catches it these days and then burns it off slowly, ( if you get it hot enough).
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 13 Oct 14 at 13:35
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My old Mondeo TDCi could produce a fabulous rooster tail of black smoke when accelerating uphill on the southbound on ramp onto the M6 at J16. Felt like it was clearing its throat ready for the day ahead. Always seemed to run better for the benefit of a cough and a spit of a morning.
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"My theory is accelerate hard, drive fast (ish). It keeps the DPF happy. Flooring it up a long uphill motorway slip road blows all the crap out of the engine and exhaust. "
I suspect your theory is wrong. The DPF in your diesel will work fine as long as it has a reasonable time running at a operating temperature. As for blowing the crap out of the engine and exhaust that might have had some merit years ago in the days of carburettors when cylinders "coked up" but these days with fuel injection that is a thing of the past. Modern petrol cars will run all their lives at under 3000 rpm and be none the worse for it. When did you last hear of anyone needing to take their car in for a de-coke? Hard acceleration might be satisfying but ultimately it's costing you money.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Mon 13 Oct 14 at 11:35
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>> I suspect your theory is wrong. The DPF in your diesel will work fine as
>> long as it has a reasonable time running at a operating temperature.
>>
I have driven diesels exclusively for nearly 30 years what is this petrol you speak of? I agree with your DPF statement, I have only used a DPF for a year but treated them well enough for them not to feel the need for a regeneration. Using the full rev range regularly does an engine good, keeps the piston rings free etc. Mimsed engines do not run at their best. If I was worried about fuel consumption I would use my bus pass. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 13 Oct 14 at 11:55
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My VW Jetta has a similar feature which I sometimes keep an eye on, the instrumentation panel computer's current MPG use readout...:-)
Updated about every five seconds. Accurate enough for the purpose.
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A polystyrene cup of hot coffee balanced on the dashboard is quite effective too. Unfortunately it doesn't give a readout.
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That actually works better than winter tyres !
( evil cackle )
;-)
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>> A polystyrene cup of hot coffee balanced on the dashboard is quite effective too. Unfortunately
>> it doesn't give a readout.
>>
If it did it would be unprintable
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Mind you I didn't buy a 168bhp TSI powered sports saloon for pottering around the countryside...:-)
Enjoy is my motto.
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>> Mind you I didn't buy a 168bhp TSI powered sports saloon
I thought you had a Jetta? The model might say Sport but it's not a sports saloon :-)
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I would have thought it would take someone no time at all to create an app for Android or iOS that does the same as this head up display. Might already exist with an HUD function. It will exist as an app using the phone display.
Seeing the video and how slow you need to accelerate to think you're making a difference. Another solution to save petrol would to all have a car with too small an engine and have to accelerate slowly.
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This might cover some of the features - acceleration G force and the ability to reverse display for HUD functionality.
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>>I would have thought it would take someone no time at all to create an app for Android or iOS ....
Oh.
drivegain.com/learn_more/upgrades
Particularly "Instantaneous Meter".
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>> >>I would have thought it would take someone no time at all to create an
>> app for Android or iOS ....
>>
>> Oh.
>>
>> drivegain.com/learn_more/upgrades
Downloaded it, (the free one anyway) see how it goes.
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>> Another solution to save petrol would to all have a car with too small
>> an engine and have to accelerate slowly.
>>
With your foot on the floor, saving nothing. Lawnmower engine syndrome. :)
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That wouldn't be allowed :-) Slow (very slow) acceleration only.
From the video I looked at for this 'device', acceleration was very slow. Dangerously slow even.
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and have to accelerate slowly.
Like in a diesel Yaris? ;-)
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>> and have to accelerate slowly.
>>
>> Like in a diesel Yaris? ;-)
>>
Yup, 10.8 seconds to 62, but who uses that. It has enough mid range torque, 205nm, to keep up with the traffic and hold its own on the motorway. The light weight helps. :)
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Another solution to save petrol would to all have a car with too small an engine and have to accelerate slowly.
Didn't have much option when the vintage car decided to jettison one spark plug nut and the lead fell off. The surprising thing, although the acceleration was rubbish, it got me home on half the engine. But I still think I prefer 1089cc of throbbing V twin to 545cc of single.
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>> I thought you had a Jetta? The model might say Sport but it's not a sports saloon :-)>>
Best check facts before making such comments. My Jetta Sports has lowered, firmer suspension and 17in Classic alloy wheels over the S and SE variants...:-)
tinyurl.com/2vscslr
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and the "go faster" stripe? ;-0
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>>My Jetta Sports has lowered, firmer suspension and
>> 17in Classic alloy wheels over the S and SE variants...:-)
>>
Ah the stiff suspension big wheel uncomfortable version. :)
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>>Ah the stiff suspension big wheel uncomfortable version. :)>>
You've clearly been in a different example.....
No one's ever complained about the ride quality. It's also a natty Q car as few other drivers realise just how quick it can prove when pushed...:-)
www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/67063/volkswagen_golf_gt.html (Golf equivalent).
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>> It's also a natty Q car
With 170PS and similar Nm of torque :-) If you say so.
Now if it had the engine of the Golf GTi I'd say you had a Q car. But they didn't offer that in the Jetta. Shame really.
I'm not having a go. I think the Jetta size/packaging is spot on. Briefly considered one in 2011 and got a Passat CC.
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My youngest has the Golf GTi - he was impressed by the Jetta when I bought it nearly four years ago.
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I'm very grateful for the opportunity to air my gadget on the forum and thanks to all for some very thoughtful comments.
Driving efficiently by minimising G force can be an important direction for the future. It not only saves fuel and reduces emissions it can extend tyre and brake life. My prototype is a mechanical one because that's all I can make myself and I spent a lot of time to achieve a simple display which a driver could absorb rapidly. However an analogue scale like this , I feel, is superior to the usual type of digital display - but perhaps a clever app designer could reproduce what I have done and improve on it.
Having driven a lot with my saver I would say a low G instrument like this provides the driver with a completely new dimension. The discipline required may not appeal to all drivers but the rewards are there for the taking.
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>> I'm very grateful for the opportunity to air my gadget on the forum and thanks
No problem. It provoked some discussion which I trust you find helpful.
In my own opinion I think you are too late with this kind of device because as you mention, phones with accelerometers etc will do the job probably better and more cheaply. For example I have used the Aviva app on the iPhone just to see what it is like.
Then as others say, who wants to drive constantly looking at the thing, which is probably very dangerous, when one can develop a feel for economic driving?
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.. one more thing. To get best fuel economy actually I find I have to drive in a burn and coast style. i.e. accelerate around 80% power up through the gears as fast as possible and then coast in top gear to maintain speed. The low gears use the most mpg so you get out of them as fast as possible for the engine. In my diesel that is not exceeding around 2k revs.
On coasting mode, remember that the new engines cut fuel completely when in gear but no throttle.
Not sure this fits with your concept though.
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Surely over the years someone has done proper scientific tests to establish the most economical way of getting from A to B?
I would have thought reasonably firm acceleration to get up to cruising speed, then steady throttle openings to maintain a speed at just above the minimum required to stay in top gear - in a manual gearbox car. In an automatic, sufficient speed so that the car doesn't come out of Drive (or top).
I am excluding any 'economy run' type of antics! It would be quite boring enough anyway.
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Runfer [I think] makes a valid point; if you're obsessing about fuel consumption to that extent, then you probably bought the wrong car.
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...or you were stuck in one of the M4's little meltdowns last week wishing you hadn't thought the fuel in the tank would be enough to get you to work.
}:---€
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I spent a number of years living in house nearly 20 miles away from the nearest petrol station and 35 miles away from one I would regularly conveniently pass. To this day I still fill my cars up before they fall below a quarter full. Paid off more than once when snow stopped play for a few hours.
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Driving a hybrid I move in an internet world of obsession about mpg of course.
The received wisdom from Toyota, who after all have a vested interest in maximising their advantage here over non-hybrids is indeed that to get the best economy you do NOT faff about accelerating as gently as possible - you get yourself up to speed "reasonably briskly" and then maintain speed as best as you can with minimal throttle input (and you may or may not gain some extra hybrid like advantage at that point).
Having tried both methods, for my cars, they're right.
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I just use my cars and concentrate my efforts on getting to where I want to go without hitting any other road users or getting the attention of a camera. Best surely to buy a car you can afford to run and not worry about it.
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>>>I just use my cars and concentrate my efforts on getting to where I want to go without hitting any other road users or getting the attention of a camera.
Yes spot on. When I had the new C5 back in 2009 it was the first large car I'd run that would easily exceed 50mpg so there was a certain fascination in creeping as near the (for me) magic 56mpg as possible. With the Alfa it was very economical at 50mpg or so even driven very quickly so never the need to "readout watch".
I did start taking notice with the 5-series for the first few weeks as I'd wondered if I could get that near 50mpg but soon relaxed to it being a 45mpg car so just get on with driving and almost never tab the menu to the mpg figure.
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I'd certainly rather my fellow drivers were using the observe-and-anticipate method of economical driving than peering at an instrument, however well engineered. I'd like to think they had their eyes and minds on the road and the traffic rather then stuck inside the car.
In fact, I'd take a lot of convincing that we ought to be sticking anything new in a driver's line of view that hasn't been designed and approved for the purpose in that car. The cause is probably lost but I'd include phones and stick-on satnavs in the same category. This fuel thing, however well intentioned, is just another distraction.
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I've always accelerated to reach desired speed as fast as comfortably possible (not max acceleration) and then maintain it.
With my new car, if you coast in economy mode it will disengage the DSG gearbox and let the engine fall to idle. And when you're maintaining a cruising speed it will switch to 2-cylinder mode. It's surprising how far it will travel when coasting without losing speed.
I'm pretty confident my driving style on a longer journey will get 40+mpg out of this. Probably a fair bit more. Not far off what my driving style got with the diesel Passat CC.
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My method is get to the speed you want ASAP and engage the cruise control. Job done!
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>> My method is get to the speed you want ASAP and engage the cruise control.
Not sure ON... I think I can drive more economically than the cruise control, although I could be flattering myself. The problem is that CC maintains a set speed through thick and thin. It's sure to be frugal going downhill, but it makes up for it on upgrades by opening the throttle, sometimes all the way if the gradient is a steep one. I know this because the accelerator pedal in the car is moved by the CC, sometimes down to the floor.
Perhaps I can't do much better than the CC, but I know I can do just as well. And the speed variation makes the driving more interesting, keeps the driver awake. There's something a bit deadly about rock-steady speed (fatal HGV/bus shunt described on line today for example).
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I would agree. CC takes the interest out of driving with no discernible benefit concerned. How hard is it to keep your foot on the accelerator and maintain a steady speed anyway? Just don't see the point. Have had it it on my past 3 cars but only switched it on once in the current car to see if it worked. The OP's invention and Cruise Control are in the same category of pointless inventions as far as I am concerend.
I shan't be investing
I'm out.!
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For my car, with standard cruise control it won't do any of the coasting you can achieve when driving yourself. So it might not be so economical. I'll have to do some testing.
If I'd opted for the radar enabled adaptive cruise control, then the car would accelerate/decelerate from 0mph to the speed specified, i.e. slow down for traffic and even stop and then start going again. I didn't think I'd make use of it so did not specify it.
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>> >> My method is get to the speed you want ASAP and engage the cruise
>> control.
>>
>> Not sure ON... I think I can drive more economically than the cruise control,
>>
If I was that desperate for economy I would use my bus pass, if I am paying I will do it my way. I doubt if I could get the Yaris below 40 mpg no matter how hard I tried, it is doing 55 mpg with my "don't give a stuff about economy" style of driving. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 14 Oct 14 at 15:11
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>> If I was that desperate for economy I would use my bus pass
I'm not desperate for it either. My point really was that varying the speed of a car to suit the terrain makes the driving more bearable, and I would say safer, without losing anything significant in economy terms.
You probably get more opportunities to use CC, living up there in the Empty Quarter not far from the Arctic Circle. Only works properly on motorways down here in the world.
:o}
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>> You probably get more opportunities to use CC, living up there in the Empty Quarter
>> not far from the Arctic Circle. Only works properly on motorways down here in the
>> world.
>>
>> :o}
>>
You have got it sussed. We have many miles of usually almost empty motorways and A roads.
I am soon going really North, actually within the Arctic Circle. Only wimps think that Scotland is cold. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 14 Oct 14 at 15:32
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No Scotland is not really cold. Just grey, wet and a tad depressing especially in winter . That's why the roads are mostly empty. They don't go anywhere you want to go. Properly cold places like Austria and Switzerland have snow and winter sports to look forward to.
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>> No Scotland is not really cold. Just grey, wet and a tad depressing especially in
>> winter .
Yeah, yeah, and it never rains South of Carlisle.
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No it rains quite a lot South of Carlisle. It is true however that the further north you go the more dismal and longer the winter becomes. I suppose you get used to it but the year I had in Perth was enough for me. It' s not the cold, it's the gloom that I hate about winters in the UK generally.
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>> No Scotland is not really cold. Just grey, wet and a tad depressing especially in
>> winter . That's why the roads are mostly empty. They don't go anywhere you want to go.
Not been to North or West of Scotland then CG? 's alright though, one less person to share it with.
EDIT - Perth is just a waypoint for navigating to the best bits - though Dumfries and Galloway is brill too.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 14 Oct 14 at 18:42
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>> >> No Scotland is not really cold. Just grey, wet and a tad depressing especially
>> in
>> >> winter . That's why the roads are mostly empty. They don't go anywhere you
>> want to go.
>>
>> Not been to North or West of Scotland then CG? 's alright though, one less
>> person to share it with.
>>
>> EDIT - Perth is just a waypoint for navigating to the best bits - though
>> Dumfries and Galloway is brill too.
Nothing wrong with the rain in scotland. It stops the midges flying.
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I am in Perth for lunch tomorrow, I will let you have a personal weather report. :)
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>> I am in Perth for lunch tomorrow, I will let you have a personal weather report. :)
TYPHOON WHASSERNAME HITS SCOTLAND
'Perfect weather for submariners,' jokes evil old matelot, uncorking nearly-empty bottle of 100-proof dark rum.
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Sounds like a plan, which one of you is brave enough to tell Mrs ON that she is driving the drunk home?
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I have indeed been to the north and West. Have spent a number of holidays up there. Quite like the remoteness of places like the Isle of Harris and I enjoyed Orkney But there's no getting away from th fact that in winter it's mostly wet gloomy and it doesn't get light until ten minutes before it gets dark. Sunshine is what I want most in the winter and I'd prefer to head for the Canaries rather than Aberdeen.
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We have electric lights, even LED ones, and central heating. :)
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No such thing as the wrong weather, just the wrong clothes.
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Absolutely. Goretex is so wrong on the beach.
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>> Absolutely. Goretex is so wrong on the beach.
>>
As you mention beaches, another good thing is we can fly direct to Europe, Dubai for the Maldives, Australia etc. or the USA from Glasgow or Edinburgh without using the nightmare airports of Manchester, Heathrow, or Gatwick.
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>> >> Absolutely. Goretex is so wrong on the beach.
>> >>
>>
>> As you mention beaches, another good thing is we can fly direct to Europe, Dubai
>> for the Maldives, Australia etc. or the USA from Glasgow or Edinburgh without using the
>> nightmare airports of Manchester, Heathrow, or Gatwick.
So the best thing about the place is you can get away from it quickly?
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Not quite, close I'll grant, but no, the best thing is you don't actually have to actually go through England to get somewhere nice.
;-)
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Absolutely. Goretex is so wrong on the beach.
I remember a day on Bamburgh beach when Goretex was very right. That was in 2007. The 14th. Of August.
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>> No Scotland is not really cold. Just grey, wet and a tad depressing especially in
>> winter
>>
Well you got today wrong. OK it only autumn but today is a calm with clear a blue sky (10% cloud) and the already comfortable temperature climing. Definitely need the sunglasses for the drive to Perth. :)
There are plenty of webcams around Edinburgh, Perth, and their airports.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 15 Oct 14 at 10:36
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www.holiday-weather.com/glasgow/averages/
www.holiday-weather.com/london/averages/
Everything in London's favour EXCEPT sunshine hours per day.
Of course, its only one source, but I wonder why.
Edinburgh not so great though.
www.holiday-weather.com/edinburgh/averages/
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 15 Oct 14 at 10:41
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>> Everything in London's favour EXCEPT sunshine hours per day.
>>
>> Of course, its only one source, but I wonder why.
Because summer days are longer?
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CGN is right about the general weather up there. The east coast was ok, but in the far north it was grim. Infact grim is putting it mildly. I used to be sent there every year late oct/nov, always happy to be leaving. Edinburgh was nice, but the far north, wet, grim and dark.
Although, god knows why, some used to volunteer to go there and even go permantly, which was always a good thing, less chance of me having to go.
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But it's still four degrees colder than a slightly chilly Norfolk, is going to get dark 15 minutes earlier and is going to rain all day tomorrow. Scotland may well have its advantages but the climate and weather is not one of them.
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>>Definitely need the sunglasses for the drive to Perth. :)>>
Just point out to those who don't seem to know Scotland that they will find palm trees on the West Coast and that for much of the year the weather can be glorious.
I've fished in the Trossachs in mid-November in my shirt sleeves, yet at night the temperature fell to zero (no, not that Zero!)
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The West coast of Scotland is famous of its gardens. The Gulf Stream keeps the immediate coastal area virtually frost free and enables the growth of a lot of plants that would normally be found a lot further south. The high rainfall also helps of course. Inverewe gardens in particular is well worth a visit if you are in the North West.
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New Fuel Saver with head up display - VxFan
