Sorry - a bit long!
In May my son was involved in a car accident.
He was on a main road executing a right turn into a side road, another car which was waiting at the Give Way line of that side road (to exit onto the main road) suddenly pulled out and hit the side of my son’s car damaging the driver’s door and rear OS door. No injuries to either party.
His insurers initially said it was a straightforward “non fault†claim and authorised repairs and said no need to pay the policy excess as it would all be claimed back from the 3rd party insurers. However his insurers quickly contacted him to say that the £650 excess should be paid as the other driver’s insurers was reporting that their client’s account of the incident was “vague†and that they would not accept liability at that stage and that they had sent an accident report form to their client be completed in order to confirm what had happened.
The other driver never responded, or completed the form, and despite several chases by my son’s insurers I understand this driver has never provided further information. Eventually after 4 months the 3rd party insurers did pay out – based on photographs we submitted showing the damage, and the information provided by a witness who confirmed the positioning of the 2 vehicles.
My son’s insurers have now closed the file and advised that it is registered as a non-fault claim and his NCB is unaffected. They have not reclaimed the £650 excess and now say we must use their solicitors (through our legal cover) to reclaim this.
We have received a letter from the solicitors stating that my son will be their client and that he has prime responsibilities for their fees (£250/hour)……………but that will be covered by his motor legal protection provided he adheres to the T & C’s.
My concern is that the other driver will act in a similar manner, and not respond and possibly this will end up in expensive court proceedings for what is a relatively small sum and that we might end up with hefty legal charges if they somehow can’t recover costs, or the other driver disputes or lies. The witness referred to earlier was actually a friend of the other driver and was similarly reticent but did at least confirm the other car pulled from a side road which seemed to be the concluding factor.
I’m wondering if the best way is to simply cancel the solicitor’s action (there’s a 14 day cooling off period) and approach the 3rd party insurers (Churchill) and attempt to claim the £650 from them – given that they have already accepted liability for repairs. All we have is the other’s drivers name (they didn’t give an address at the scene), and reg no. i.e. no policy number or reference.
Thanks for reading
J
|
I suggest he checks with his solicitors and the providers of his legal cover exactly what he position is in such a scenario.
The sum involved is in small claims territory so there is very limited scope for recovery of legla costs through the court. I don't think that's a problem as they'll be covered by the recovery element of the insurance but he needs to clarify that.
Likelihood is that the 3rd party is hoping it will go away. Solicitors letters and a formal summons will remove that illusion and he/his insurers will pay up - even if they only agree in the court waiting room.
|
If the TP Insurers have actually paid for the repairs then it is difficult to understand why recovering the excess is not simply a matter of a single letter.
You cannot be told which lawyers to use. You can only be told which lawyers your legal protection will cover, provided that your particular policy says that you must use nominated people (it probably does). Also you cannot be told that you must use your legal protection policy.
Read your Legal Expenses insurance policy and see under what, if any, circumstances you can be pursued for legal expenses if you simply are allowing them to deal with it. You probably cannot be unless you act outside their guidelines.
That being the case, seek written confirmation that they will never pursue you for reimbursement from the legal expenses company and then let them get on with it at no risk to you.
If they can seek reimbursement from you [unlikely], then consider whether or not you should bother pursuing it at all.
Personally at that point I would cancel the legal expenses company's actions, and invest in a quick phone call to the TP insurer and ask then if they will reimburse you for the excess if you provide proof that you have already paid it. If they say yes, get a name, send a letter, get a cheque.
If they say no, then I would either let it go [probably] or send a couple of letters threatening legal action myself just to see.
Finally, the next time read the Ts&Cs of a legal expenses policy BEFORE you take it.
|
p.s. Be aware that if you contact the TP Insurer while your Legal Expenses company is dealing with it and they refuse to pay and then anybody considers that you have harmed the proceedings, the legal expenses company may then be able to seek reimbursement from you.
So sort out the situation with the expenses company BEFORE talking with the TP Insurer.
|
>> If the TP Insurers have actually paid for the repairs then it is difficult to
>> understand why recovering the excess is not simply a matter of a single letter.
>>
Thanks for the advice.
I also don't understand why it's so difficult, The fact is that all the times we've had to chase our insurer (each time to be told "the 3rd party aren't responding to their insurer") we've mentioned the excess and we were told several times that the insurer would get it back for us.
Now they've referred to the solicitors and it's like a new claim, they want full details (locations, what happened, witnesses, damage extent etc etc, they even want a full description - height age hair colour - of the 3rd party!) ) and sent this form for my son to sign to say he accepts prime responsibility for the solicitors costs, which made me uneasy given the 3rd party's previous unwillingness to engage with the claim process.
The annoying thing is that I've mitigated all our costs (The insurer's repairer quoted over £3K to replace the 2 doors and repaint - an amount which resulted in the insurer wanting to write off the car (bought only 5 weeks before)................I went to a local guy and he did it for £1800 enabling us to keep the car, we also refused the offer of a hire car - via the dreaded accident management company and saved (someone) some more money.
I'll probably cancel it, and then approach Churchill myself, and if that doesn't yield anything just leave it. Just the annoyance that some one can hit your car, and basically be as unhelpful as possible and we have to jump through all the hoops to get reimbursed.
Thanks again though for clear advice and guidance.
J
|
>>sent this form for my son to sign to say he accepts prime responsibility for the solicitors costs,
Not with a bargepole.
If the solicitor knows that he can get his money back no matter what, from either the TP or your son, then absolutely nothing is going to hold back his expenses!
And not much is going to motivate him to care from which of you he gets his money from.
>>I'll probably cancel it, and then approach Churchill myself, and if that doesn't yield anything just leave it.
That would be my approach.
Mind you, a nasty letter to your insurer wouldn't go amiss, either.
|
This is why I never involve my own insurance when it is a third party's fault.
When this happened to me, I had to issue a county court summons to the third party, it is up to them if they pass it to their insurer, but in any case, they are ultimately responsible for your losses.
Before you do that, it may be worth writing to your insurer again and saying that they forgot to claim your excess from the defendant and so should waive it.
|
My interpretation is that your insurers are having you over. You say your insurers footed the repair bills and were reimbursed by the 3rd party insurers. Presumably that would be for the full amount of repair costs. They have had the excess off you because they initially footed the bill.
So they have had your £650, followed by £650 from the 3rd party insurers??????
As I understand it if you claim for damage to your own vehicle you pay an excess. If a 3rd party claims against your insurance they get paid all their costs by your insurance company, you do not pay an excess.
And as for taking out private legal action????? If you send a bill to the third party then the 3rd party should pass it to their insurers who pay the bill, which they have already paid.
|
|
Agree with Fullchat it is your insurance which should sort this out simples.
|
>> My interpretation is that your insurers are having you over. You say your insurers footed
>> the repair bills and were reimbursed by the 3rd party insurers. Presumably that would be
>> for the full amount of repair costs. They have had the excess off you because
>> they initially footed the bill.
>>
>> So they have had your £650, followed by £650 from the 3rd party insurers??????
No, that's not the situation.
The car went in for repair immediately following the accident. We paid the £650 directly
to the repairer and the repairer invoiced our Insurer for the balance. It took 4 months for the Insurer to get this amount back from the 3rd party insurer due to the lack of co operation by the other driver. They didn't reclaim the £650 despite initially saying they would.
However following the excellent advice given by No FM2R (Mark ?) I did call the solicitors yesterday and inform them that we were not willing to accept prime responsibility for their costs. To my surprise the person I spoke to was really helpful - he accepted my concern, and offered to call my insurer and get some more information about the incident/3rd party responses in order to reassure me that there would be no barriers to claiming the money back.
He called me back 30 minutes later to say my Insurer had now accepted they should have claimed the money for me, and further he advised that he had called the 3rd party Insurer Churchill who had agreed to issue payment to my insurer on receipt of a copy of a paid invoice - which he already had as I'd sent it in as part of the initial referral process. He's emailed the invoice over and assured me the calls were all recorded and the cheque would follow.
Job done!
FWIW - the reticent 3rd party who refused to cooperate was no spotty chav with a chip on their shoulder but a 60 year old lady who lives 2 streets away from me (I don't know her but recognised the reg no/car damaged on her drive the day after) in a nice property and I would guess comfortably off.
So you never know how people will react.
J
|
Well done Jacks, lets just hope it all now goes smoothly.
I am sure it will, but do keep on top of it and don't let time drift by. BTW, I assume that you noted the name of the guy you spoke to.
|
"I assume that you noted the name of the guy you spoke to"
Time for one of these, perhaps..
www.pmctelecom.co.uk/intelligent-recording-call-assist-sd-recorder
Extraordinary how someone just 'being vague' can put such a large spanner in the works!
|
I understand you are insured with Churchill? If so a direct approach to the CEO might be in order!
Despite the title, he is also responsible for Churchill.
Direct Line Group
Mr Paul Geddes Chief Executive
Email Paul.Geddes@directlinegroup.co.uk
Website www.directlinegroup.co.uk
Social Media T
Postal Address Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent, BR1 1DP, UKM
|
I don't think Churchill have done anything wrong and are, in any case, the third party insurers.
Actually, other than the reluctant insured person I'm not sure that anybody has done anything particularly wrong. A certain lack of efficiency perhaps, but not much more.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 8 Oct 14 at 16:48
|
|
If I understand the thread correctly (perhaps I don't!) Churchill are the insurers of the person who is being awkward?
|
Aah I see. Slightly different slant.Of course that's how it works. You pay the repairer the excess and your insurers pay the balance.
Nice to see they have accepted that they should have claimed all costs. Pity they needed a Solicitor to kick their bottoms.
|
The OP has named the 3rd part insurer, who appear blameless, but I wonder who the son's insurer is?
Certainly when someone ran into the back of my wife's car, I put the claim through our insurer (LV=) and they waived the excess. I guess as per the OP though, they may not have done that if there had been a dispute.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Wed 8 Oct 14 at 18:26
|
Advice sought re: non co operating 3rd party - Bromptonaut
