Just been to the local Kwik Fit to get my front tyres changed at they are about 1.7mm.
Kwik Fit are my lease company's preferred supplier.
They agreed the tyres were close and called the lease company who refused and advised that they only change them on 1.6mm, the legal minimum!
I think it is shocking and the first time in 20 years of company car driving that the limit has been this low and has the potential of being dangerous!
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I'd be really surprised if the tyre depth gauge is accurate to 0.1mm!
Personally I'd be emailing the lease company c.c. your HR dept. clarifiying with them that in the event of an accident on your part where borderline tyre depth was a contributing factor they would indemnify you against any 3rd party claims and pay any damages incurred by yourself.
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To be fair to Kwik Fit they were shocked too!
Email already sent to boss and cc'd director.
Refusing to drive it until resolved as potential for six points or worse.
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A few months ago I had noticed the grip on my car wasn't as good as it should be. The front tyres were down to 2mm, I changed them and it made a big difference. I would personally refuse to drive any car close to the legal limit too. They will surely need changing in a couple of weeks anyway. I just don't get why they are arguing. I could understand them refusing to change them at 3mm but they are shot.
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I did take them in at 2mm and was told no chance!
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When your tyres - usually the front ones - start 'going off', you naturally notice immediately and modify your driving accordingly, in a largely unconscious process.
Don't you?
Anyway on dry roads, the less tread the better. Those racers don't use slicks just because they look cool.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 23 Sep 14 at 13:25
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>>Anyway on dry roads, the less tread the better. Those racers don't use slicks just because they look cool
Autumn is here. It's going to get wetter!
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>> It's going to get wetter!
Perhaps. When it does, of course, we will be monitoring our slip angles and perhaps slowing down a bit here and there. It's a bit more difficult than rocket science, but not that difficult really.
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>>
>> Perhaps. When it does, of course, we will be monitoring our slip angles and perhaps
>> slowing down a bit here and there. It's a bit more difficult than rocket science,
>> but not that difficult really.
>>
Don't forget many people have no experience of driving in slippery conditions with crossply tyres, no ABS, electronic skid control, traction control, or an instinctive awareness of the physics of car control. It is only easier than rocket science for us old duffers who have had antiques as daily drivers. :)
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>> easier than rocket science for us old duffers who have had antiques as daily drivers. :)
Do you feel privileged ON? I do.
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Off subject, did some work today for a ex submariner.Looking forward to some of the stories he has to tell me O.N.
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You have my sympathy but the problem may be that they are "legal" so no amount of complaining is likely to help. I speak as someone who had company cars for over 20 years and was always unhappy at having to wait until right down to the wear bars. Now with my own car I change when I like and can even maintain a consistent brand rather than end up with a mixture or brands that the latest fleet offer dictated. In your own case maybe a bit of rubber will scrub off if you have to do some scrabbled starts in the next few days?
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>> In your own case maybe a bit of rubber
>> will scrub off if you have to do some scrabbled starts in the next few
>> days?
Exactly, then tell the lease company they are now at 1.6mm, you are going to get them changed and you are going to bill them for your time as you had a wasted journey last time.
TBH tho I don't know why the KF guys did not say they were 1.5mm
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>>TBH tho I don't know why the KF guys did not say they were 1.5mm
Apparently they have to keep them and they get inspected! If they are not worn then they don't get paid. Never been told that before though.
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Point is the legal limit is 1.6mm. If I do a over a thousand miles next week they may become illegal halfway up a motorway.
Now I know I can take them to Kwik Fit and get them changed then, but as a moot point, I feel aggrieved at this and may stop the car half way along some remote road and complain that I cannot drive it any further because it is illegal.
I still maintain the ex's car and I change the tyres when I feel it is needed - usually at 2mm but sometimes before if the tyre looks "cracked".
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I'm really surprised you've ended up in this position.
Why? I'm surprised that KF reported them as 1.7mm. When I ran a company car, if the tyre was that far gone they knew how to play the game and they made sure they found a section of tyre at 1.6, and reported that.
I regularly travelled 1000 miles a week in my company car, and there would sometimes be no good day to be available for a mobile fitter for a couple of weeks ahead. I can remember having a big argument because I was just legal, but by the time I was next available to have tyres fitted I would certainly have been illegal. I won.
Edited to add: sometimes there is a clause in the contract to allow them to charge a little extra for the tyre life which has been 'lost'. If so, that might be a way to go?
Now that I run my own cars, the tyres are changed at 3mm, possibly even a bit more.
Last edited by: Tigger on Tue 23 Sep 14 at 14:09
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'Er... hard to explain, but while I was getting a bit of wheelspin to take 0.1mm of tread off the front tyres I unfortunately broke a driveshaft and hit three parked cars... '
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If it is a marginally decent lease car the traction control won't let the wheels spin.
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>> If it is a marginally decent lease car the traction control won't let the wheels
>> spin.
It can be switched off.
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>> It can be switched off.
>>
Even in my impoverished pensioners self funded week old car.:)
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Not defending the lease co, but I guess if you look at the bigger picture then each change they push out could save them a set of tyres over the life of a car.
XX thousand cars on lease and that's a lot of £££££'s
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>> Not defending the lease co, but I guess if you look at the bigger picture
>> then each change they push out could save them a set of tyres over the
>> life of a car.
>>
>> XX thousand cars on lease and that's a lot of £££££'s
Which is exactly the problem. Trading off the OP's safety for the shareholder's profit.
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>> Which is exactly the problem. Trading off the OP's safety for the shareholder's profit.
>>
Where do you draw the line though? Easy option for the lease co is to draw the line at 1.6mm. OTOH our VW dealer rang to ask how the tyres were doing on our Golf having noted them at 5mm on a recent service. I was told they must be changed at 3mm as that’s the “EU legal limitâ€. Everyone I’ve told about that assumes the VW dealer is trying rip us off.
It’s a few years since I opted out of company cars and a considerable plus point was that I would no longer have to go to KF or be dictated to on the time and choice of tyre. Downside now is I have to pay for them myself.
They do have to retain the tyre so daren’t replace too early, but I’ve never been pushed to 1.6mm. 2mm was the standard, but I’ve had KF measure tyres flush to the wear bars and say they were 3mm. Once they’ve said that to the lease company you then get a massive fight. I’ve had situations where they’ll change one tyre but not the other.
I did kick up a fuss with our fleet manager when the lease co started to fit Firestone tyres that were noticeably harder than the OEM fit Pirelli/Continental. Made the cars much quieter but wet grip was noticeably poorer. We put a rule put in place that tyres must be replaces like for like.
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Sorted.
My fleet manager got involved as it was previously 2mm.
He pointed out the legal implications of a crash where KF may be in error by 1/10th of a mm and the police undertaking precise measurements. Advises my employer would be jointly liable by forcing the driver to drive an un-roadworthy vehicle. Lease co to allow 2mm ongoing.
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I'm not proud of it, but some years ago when the legal limit was 1mm, I looked at my tyres - which were legal and decided I could get another 1000 miles out of them. After a couple hundred, the heavens opened and the car under-steered like its patriotic duty. The tyres were pretty well bald so I bought some new ones.
Apparently, rapid wear in the last bit of tread is quite normal.
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First off - I have not read all posts.
I have had a company car since 1996. Various lease companies (we switched a few times). But I've always had them swapped without problem at 2mm if not sooner.
I once got a puncture when the fronts were near renewal. I asked for the other front to be changed. No was the answer. But they had previously fitted asymmetrical tyres (well the supplier had). So I asked if there was an accident and I had a new tyre on one side with standard tread, and a 2mm tread tyre as an asymmetrical on the other.... they would be partly responsible. End result - two new tyres.
I also pointed out had they not allowed asymmetrical tyres to be fitted, the spare could have been used (full alloy) as one of the new fronts.
Current lease car will go back with decent tread on front tyres and rear. Only had one set of tyres (front) in three years. They must have made a profit. Also only 22000 miles so far.
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Similarly mine will change at 2mm, have had them changed at 3 just before I go abroad.
Last one was changed in France and the interesting discussion (Between them and the dealer) was that they would ONLY fit a matching tyres so ended up with two new continentals (one was the new spare) and the second Lease Co part worn Dunlop as spare. If they hadn't had a continental it would have been two new tyres.
One car I had went back with two asymetric tyres, one unidirectional tyre and one normal - Wouldn't accept it now.
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I had almost exactly the same scenario with a company leased car years ago. When The tyre garage told me the lease co wouldn't authorise new tyres despite mine being at 2mm I simply told them to fit them anyway and that I would pay the bill myself.
I put the bill on my next expenses claim with a short but to the point covering note and it was reimbursed without further comment.
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The tyre fitters have always put down anything of 2mm or less as 1.6mm. Original fronts on the 320d just changed at 46k. They still had 2.2mm in the centre, but the outer edges were bald as a coot.
Personally, I would involve HR in any refusal to change a borderline tyre. I would want a signed letter stating it is safe, or I would want the tyres replaced. No company is ever going to give you the former for the sake of a couple of tenths of a mm measured on an unknown tyre gauge.
Last edited by: DP on Wed 24 Sep 14 at 10:03
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Tyre tread gauge is just a rather small bit of a vernier calliper and rather unlikely to be wrong. But the human operating it is another matter!
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Sorry, I missed perhaps the most critical bit off the end ....'operated by an unknown person.'
I find using mobile fitters helps with the authorisation thing as well.
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>> Personally, I would involve HR in any refusal to change a borderline tyre. I would
>> want a signed letter stating it is safe, or I would want the tyres replaced.
HR and whoever has oversight of H&S.
In a govt dept driving on duty was, for office staff, our biggest H&S risk by a country mile. An nobody was driving rep type distances. We're talking staff going to other offices on relief, trainers and others attending meetings and such like with more kit than they could take by train.
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>> I would want a signed letter stating it is safe, ...
I love it when people say stuff like this.
So the fast-fit place, the lease company and your employer say "no". What do you do then - refuse to drive the car? Next thing you're suspended for refusing to do your job.
Had a similar impasse with VAG on daughter's SEAT Ibiza, which for £19/mth came with a service & maint contract, which seemed like a good deal.
Needed new front tyres so the fast-fit place rang the maintenance controller to get authorisation. They were told to fit 2 Continental eco-contact tyres, leaving the Dunlop tyres on the rear. I objected to this as 1) new tyres should go on the rear, 2) even Continental say you shouldn't mix eco and non-eco tyres.
I asked them to confirm in writing that what they proposed would be safe and they said no, and if I didn't like it I could buy my own tyres.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Wed 24 Sep 14 at 14:41
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I think new ones should go on the front axle BP, but not of course if they are hard-compound ditchfinders. Actually you don't want those on your car at all.
The answer, for drivers, is of course that you have to buy your own tyres if the lease company or your employer won't change them until they are dangerous in the wet. Either that, or mimse. The most grippy tyres tend to be the most expensive but also the quietest. If you care and have the bread, just use those and replace them in pairs when necessary. It's either that, or mimse.
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>> I think new ones should go on the front axle BP, but not of course
>> if they are hard-compound ditchfinders. Actually you don't want those on your car at all.
>>
The correct default position is to put new tyres on the rear, as the worst gripping tyres should be on the front.
So as it happens putting the new eco tyres on the front and leaving the grippy Dunlops on the back is probably the right thing to do.
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>> >> I would want a signed letter stating it is safe, ...
>>
>> I love it when people say stuff like this.
>>
>> So the fast-fit place, the lease company and your employer say "no". What do you
>> do then - refuse to drive the car? Next thing you're suspended for refusing to
>> do your job.
>>
Luckily I work for reasonable people who wouldn't expect me to drive a car with even questionable legality, so this situation has never arisen, but in principle yes, I would kick up a massive fuss. Anyone who gets in a car and drives it when its legality is open to question is a fool. And I'm sorry, a tyre with 1.7mm tyre tread depth could easily become illegal in a few hundred miles. Then what? 3 points a tyre if pulled? A nasty accident in the wet?
If the powers that be can't even fire me a quick email to explain why what I consider to be a perfectly reasonable request was refused, and reassuring me that the car is safe to drive without this being granted, why the hell should I bet mine and my family's life, or my driving license on it?
I am also expressly forbidden in the terms and conditions of our company car policy from doing any more to the car than keeping vital fluids topped up, and keeping it clean. Everything needs to go through, and be authorised by, the lease company. So the decision is completely out of my hands.
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I really don't get this thread. There has to be a line drawn somewhere and it's drawn at 1.6 mm.
Below that is illegal and above it is legal.
Both 2mm and 1.7mm tyres have a lot of miles left in them before they cross the line to being illegal, and all they need is careful monitoring and sympathetic driving. Something any professional car driver (=one who does enough miles to warrant a company car) should be happy to do.
Kwikfit has been mentioned and they have depots all over the country.
Surely if you put you financial head on and look at it from a company point of view, 4 tyres per car, times however many company cars they run, it makes perfect sense to maximise the mileage whie the tyres are legal?
Safety above the limit, is in the hands of the (aware) driver.
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Wed 24 Sep 14 at 15:20
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>>Kwikfit has been mentioned and they have depots all over the country.
Which is fine if you're doing a couple of hundred miles a week; or if you've nothing better to do than to wait until the tyres are on the limit and need changing.
But not fine if you're driving a thousand or more miles a week, on a tight schedule between meetings.
The lease company saves sixpence in order for the finance department to save sixpence in order for the salesman to miss a multi-thousand pounds sale. That's what this thread is all about.
So if a new tyre is 8 mm and a dead one, 20,000 miles later is 1.6 mm, each 0.1 mm will get you 312 miles.
And if you have to leave home with tyres that are on 1.7mm at 4am for a 10am meeting 400 miles away, you will (on the basis of the above calculation) arrive with illegal tyres, and so when should you get them changed?
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>>And if you have to leave home with tyres that are on 1.7mm at 4am for a 10am meeting 400 miles away, you will (on the basis of the above calculation) arrive with illegal tyres, and so when should you get them changed?
Exactly!
And the potential for 3 points per bald tyre.
Once I notice the tyres are illegal I would have refused to drive it. The car could be anywhere and either a mobile fitter or tow would be required and forcing a cancellation of a meeting. With a full diary and knowing what my company charges me out for, they could buy about 5 sets of new tyres for my car vs a lost day.
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>>
Once I notice the tyres are illegal I would have refused to drive it<<
...and that would be the correct course of action but 1.7mm isn't illegal.
Pat
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>> Both 2mm and 1.7mm tyres have a lot of miles left in them before they
>> cross the line to being illegal,
If a front tyre last 20k miles, they come with 8mm tread new, the difference between 1.7mm and 1.6mm is about 400 miles.
and all they need is careful monitoring and sympathetic
>> driving. Something any professional car driver (=one who does enough miles to warrant a company
>> car) should be happy to do.
Thats about a days use then.
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>> Both 2mm and 1.7mm tyres have a lot of miles left in them before they cross the line to >> being illegal, and all they need is careful monitoring and sympathetic driving.
>> Something any professional car driver (=one who does enough miles to warrant a company
>> car) should be happy to do.
2mm, yes absolutely. Maybe 1,500 miles or more.
I disagree that a 1.7mm has lots of miles left in it though. Life is too short to be measuring tyre tread every few hundred miles which is what you would need to do with a 1.7mm tyre to be confident you are remaining legal. Just replace the stupid tyre which is what any sensible person would do.
Slightly O/T, but company cars are awarded on grade rather than mileage at our place, so it doesn't follow that our company cars all do big mileages. Some do 40k a year, some struggle to do that over the 3 yr term.
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I note that Mapmaker has failed to do the maths over a big company with a lot of vehicles...creative accounting!
>> Life is too short to be measuring tyre tread every few hundred miles which is what you would need to do with a 1.7mm tyre to be confident you are remaining legal. Just replace the stupid tyre which is what any sensible person would do.<<
I agree, but then again I run my own car and pay for the tyres so get to choose how much tread to throw away.
>> but company cars are awarded on grade rather than mileage at our place, so it doesn't follow that our company cars all do big mileages. Some do 40k a year, some struggle to do that over the 3 yr term.<<
So, quite possibly running from 2mm down to 1.6mm could easily run into another accounting period then?
As I said, with a financial hat on, it makes sense.
Pat
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>>I note that Mapmaker has failed to do the maths over a big company with a lot of vehicles...creative accounting!
Not at all. I gave an example of one, where it is pointless pennypinching. Multiplied up by thousands of vehicles, then the pennypinching by the accountants is having a (negative) multi-million pound impact on your sales!
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>> is having a (negative) multi-million pound impact on your sales!<<
That theory may hold good if ALL company car drivers were salesmen Mapmaker, but as you an I know, they are not:)
Pat
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>> >> is having a (negative) multi-million pound impact on your sales!<<
>>
>> That theory may hold good if ALL company car drivers were salesmen Mapmaker, but as
>> you an I know, they are not:)
>> Pat
Most company cars are used to drive to customers.
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>> So, quite possibly running from 2mm down to 1.6mm could easily run into another accounting
>> period then?
>>
>> As I said, with a financial hat on, it makes sense.
>>
>> Pat
Company car drivers are CUSTOMERS of the leasing company. Company car drivers PAY for the company car. Companies are customers of the leasing company - No company car drivers, no leasing company. As a company car driver my worth to my company was at £1k day in billings, no time to not be billing faffing around visiting KF twice in two or three days.
No way would my old leasing company get away with touring down a tyre change away at .1mm over the legal limit.
They would however send you away with a flea in your ear at 2mm.
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>>Company car drivers are CUSTOMERS of the leasing company.
Um. Of course, only up to a point - or indeed not really. The leasing company has been driven down to the last penny by the company car driver's employer's finance department. So the leasing company has said 'Yes, we'll knock £1,000 per annum off if your tyres are worn to 1.6mm not 2mm.'
It's like the endless efficiencies that can be made... until they make the place inefficient as fee earners are spending ages doing pointless administrative tasks.
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>> >>Company car drivers are CUSTOMERS of the leasing company.
>>
>> Um. Of course, only up to a point - or indeed not really.
Yes really. Lease companies have been given the elbow from contracts because the drivers didn't like them, or the employer didn't like them because they caused company car driver inefficiency.
>>The leasing
>> company has been driven down to the last penny by the company car driver's employer's
>> finance department.
Absolutely Always, screw them down till they squeak is the idea. AND then go for value add services. For free. Dicking your drivers about tho is NOT value add.
>> So the leasing company has said 'Yes, we'll knock £1,000 per annum off
>> if your tyres are worn to 1.6mm not 2mm.'
They wouldn't dare say "we will turn away and inconvenience your drivers if they rock up with 1.7mm" tho would they
>> It's like the endless efficiencies that can be made... until they make the place inefficient
>> as fee earners are spending ages doing pointless administrative tasks.
Exactly what happened in the original post.
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>>Just replace the stupid tyre which is what any sensible person would do.
Which is what I wanted but not out of my pocket at £200+ per wheel out of taxed pay.
I already pay company car tax and lose my car allowance so to my mind I am paying enough already.
Last edited by: zippy on Wed 24 Sep 14 at 20:36
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>> I already pay company car tax and lose my car allowance so to my mind
>> I am paying enough already.
>>
Get over yourself, you pay tax on BIK, ie a freebe, you don't loose car allowance, you are provided with one. You are a net winner, no depreciation, no servicing or repair costs. Give us a break from your whining.
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>>Get over yourself, you pay tax on BIK, ie a freebe, you don't loose car allowance, you are provided with one. You are a net winner, no depreciation, no servicing or repair costs. Give us a break from your whining.
The allowance comes with the grade, if a car is needed or not, so if I did no driving for work I would get the cash.
50k miles per year in the car. I expect about 6k is private. There are no options for pool cars. I pay about £2k in BIK and lose the allowance. For 6k miles I would have got a small runabout.
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>> The allowance comes with the grade, if a car is needed or not, so if
>> I did no driving for work I would get the cash.
>>
If you are getting a poor deal tell your boss to stick his car and fund one from your car allowance, it comes with the grade.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 24 Sep 14 at 22:54
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I apologise for my error, you also have none of your personal cash tied up in the car and no insurance costs.
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>> >>Just replace the stupid tyre which is what any sensible person would do...
Exactly what I did when faced with the same nonsense as I previously mentioned upthread. I passed the cost back to my then employers to sort out and just claimed it on my expenses. I put a covering note in with the receipt to the effect of suggesting that if they thought it was a good use of my time and their money for me to keep taking time out to go back to have a couple of poxing tyres fitted that I had significantly misinterpreted my brief.
The expenses claim was honoured without a murmur and a much later subsequent conversation with the fleet manager confirmed my suspicion that he'd read the riot act to the leasing company and been fully reimbursed.
He was a good bloke that fleet manager. Various car companies would leave him cars to trial whenever a new model came out and if you were in his good books he'd call you up and ask you if you fancied a shot of a new whatever it was for a week or two.
Kind worked for them too though I guess because when I got a loan of a Sierra Cosworth I just had to have one as my next co car, same with a later 5 series in similar circs.
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>> Exactly what I did when faced with the same nonsense as I previously mentioned upthread. I passed the cost back to my then employers to sort out and just claimed it on my expenses. I put a covering note in with the receipt to the effect of suggesting that if they thought it was a good use of my time and their money for me to keep taking time out to go back to have a couple of poxing tyres fitted that I had significantly misinterpreted my brief.
The voice of effin reason Humph. I kept wondering how long it was going to take for someone to suggest the bleeding obvious, instead of faffing about tread depth and trying to get a few quid back from wriggling, snivelling, mean-spirited, jobsworth commercial companies.
Chapeau comrade! You cool dey.
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>>Just been to the local Kwik Fit to get my front tyres changed at they are about 1.7mm
>>1.7mm tyres have a lot of miles left in them before they cross the line to being illegal, and
There are several points.
1. It's autumn. The weather will turn with rain, making roads wet and slippery after being soaked in diesel all summer.
2. Next week I know I will be driving well over 1800 miles with meetings starting at 8 AM and not likely to finish before 6PM, in towns that I am not familiar with and a long way from home. I don’t want to have to hunt out the local Kwik Fit, hoping they have my tyres in stock (when I had a puncture had to be ordered in). I can’t use a mobile fitter because I won’t be able to get back to my car from the meeting. It is likely to be on a different office campus.
3. Some of the businesses are on unmade roads, these are likely to take a toll.
4. I will not be in a frame of mind to worry about tread depth, I suppose I could stop every few hundred miles to check the tyres. Stopping on the hard shoulder of the M1 isn't practical though and why should I risk my licence and wellbeing for the sake of 1/10th of a mm.
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>> Stopping on the hard shoulder of the M1 isn't practical though and why should I risk my licence and wellbeing for the sake of 1/10th of a mm.<<
Come on Zippy, that's the type of argument I'd expect from a lorry driver....there are motorway service station, you know!
Pat
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>> I really don't get this thread. There has to be a line drawn somewhere and
>> it's drawn at 1.6 mm.
>>
>> Below that is illegal and above it is legal.
>>
>> Both 2mm and 1.7mm tyres have a lot of miles left in them before they
>> cross the line to being illegal, and all they need is careful monitoring and sympathetic
>> driving. Something any professional car driver (=one who does enough miles to warrant a company
>> car) should be happy to do.
Don't agree with this one Pat.
The difference between a tyre on say 5mm and 3mm isn't a great deal in the big scheme of things... however, the difference between a tyre on 3mm and 1.6 mm is significant.
You create your own luck in life...so if you have a say in what tyres are on the vehicle, you create it in that fashion.
It's all very well being a careful and prudent driver etc..but that doesn't cater for the other t****s out there.. or.. an unexpected emergency manoeuvre/emergency stop in the wet.
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I absolutely agree with you WP.....if you OWN the car.
However if you decide to take a company car then you have to accept the deal includes a fine line between staying legal and making the cost of the deal as little as possible.
It's what eventually makes a profit for your company when all the small things are added up.
I always get this argument from lorry drivers, they never seem to be able to relate a small cost, by just one of them, to the cost to a company per year. Then to relate that cost to the lack of a wage increase is impossible for them to see.
I honestly never expected to see the same reaction on here where you all have good business heads and obviously know how profit and loss works!
It's made me realise that once the 'personal' factor is engaged the view is skewed, however far up that ladder we get:)
Maybe I'll be a bit less hard on them next time.....
Pat
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>>I always get this argument from lorry drivers, they never seem to be able to relate a small
>>cost, by just one of them, to the cost to a company per year. Then to relate that cost to the
>>lack of a wage increase is impossible for them to see.
Pat, I'm afraid you're completely missing the point. When it comes to lorry drivers, you are absolutely correct. Spend an extra £1 on rubber on each tyre, by the time you've multiplied that up by 20,000 wheels you can employ an extra driver.
But when it comes to fee earners, you're saving £1, but it's costing you possibly thousands in lost sales. So the net result is a loss.
I honestly thought you'd have managed to see the difference, but you're thinking like an accountant rather than from a business perspective!
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.....and most companies are run by accountants now!
Your comparison is completely wrong Mapmaker.
The scenario is exactly the same regarding tyres whether it's a lorry or car.
A penalty for late deliveries, a call out fee for replacement, and loss of faith with the customer that you can handle their deliveries on time and efficiently, not to mention damage trailers, surrounding vehicles when a tyre blows on the road as they almost always do.
I'm not advocating this as the best course of action, just surprised company car drivers don't expect this to happen and can't seem to understand why it does.
I shall probably put this very badly but here goes:)
Accountants only see numbers not situations.
They only work in the here and now, and project spending on facts not probables.
They don't evaluate consequences and see risks, unless they can see it as a number.
They never seem to put a price on service, loyalty, goodwill or anyone's well being.
I'm not a fan!
Pat
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You'd argue with me even if I said that the sun rises in the morning.
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No, I certainly wouldn't Mapmaker, you don't realise I have a lot of respect for you.
What irks me is when I voice my opinion and am struggling to understand others, they so often come up with a dismissive comment like that, for no reason at all.
Carry on lads, sorry to interrupt with an 'alternative' opinion on this matter.
Pat
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Well in which case, if the consequences of not changing a lorry tyre *now* are so severe, why do you put your bean-counter's hat on and tell them 'no' in order to save £1? Either you're missing the consequences of the knock-on effect (despite the many thousands of similar transactions) or it doesn't exist.
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I think I know what I've done wrong here....you're not an accountant by any chance are you?
Bean-counter?
I've yet to see you be so disparaging to any other person you speak to on here.
Unless you want to discuss this on a level, then there's nothing more to say.
....and that means coming UP to my level of general respect and politeness to other forum members.
Pat
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eh?
Is my point clear to anybody else, or is Pat now telling me that black is white?
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>> is Pat now telling me that black is white?
Do stop winding each other up and squabbling, darlings. There can't possibly be a serious material disagreement.
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>> Anyone who gets in a car and drives it when its legality is open to question is a fool.
I must be a total idiot then, because I've done it a number of times. I wonder how many here over the age of 40 can say hand on heart that they've never done it.
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Many things we do in live is foolish the way of the world.
2mm minimum for a inexperience driver.Not allowed to change a tyre at 1.7 mm is odd in my opinion.
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Our fleet is checked every couple of weeks. Under 3mm and it's a trip to National who keep a stock in for us.
We never know who is booking the cars......safe or loony. Best to be sure for the small price involved. The cars go back to the lease company at 3 years so only one change required usually.
After all, they're your only contact with the mother ship !
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Been out of the interweb loop for a while so probably adding nothing by saying that my 'home country' (UK) company car scheme leasing provider(s) all allow tyre change at 2mm and in fact that's 2mm anywhere across the whole tread width so no messing really. I admit that on my own cars I change at 3mm but then I am a spendthrift when it comes to safety.
In my 'host country' (Australia) the company car scheme is a little different (insofar as it's a personal lease) but the 2mm tyre change point is the same (so is the leasing company I would add).
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I defy anybody to measure to 0.1.mm anyway. About 0.5 is as near as I can get, when I check them to even out the wear.
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>> I defy anybody to measure to 0.1.mm anyway. About 0.5 is as near as I
>> can get, when I check them to even out the wear.
My digital depth guage measures in 0.1mm increments.
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>> My digital depth guage measures in 0.1mm increments.
I guess most do as there's a need to provide some deliniation between each 5mm mark.
Whether you an get 0.5mm precision on a consistent basis is another question.
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Whether you an get 0.5mm precision on a consistent basis is another question.
And just about any kid doing O level (or whatever they call it this week) physics with an expectation of passing, can think of a good few reasons why you are are rather unlikely to have that kind of precision doing that measurement.
One of my tools in the shed can measure depressions to, I think, 0.2 mm or perhaps even better, 0.1, but the weak point is establishing an accurate datum of the flat surface and that is going to be a problem however fancy your measuring device.
Of course, the problem is made worse by the modern tendency to use superwide tyres and thus be more dependant on their water clearing abilities.
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>> >> I defy anybody to measure to 0.1.mm anyway. About 0.5 is as near as
>> I
>> >> can get, when I check them to even out the wear.
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>> My digital depth guage measures in 0.1mm increments.
>>
There's a big difference between precision and accuracy though!
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There's a big difference between precision and accuracy though!
Oh yes (in the voice of that annoying insurance selling dog). Give an oik a digital meter and they think it is that accurate even if they only paid £2.99
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>> Oh yes (in the voice of that annoying insurance selling dog). Give an oik a
>> digital meter and they think it is that accurate even if they only paid £2.99
>>
I mentioned earlier about one of the fast-fit places measuring my tyres at 3mm when they were worn flush with the tread-wear indicators.
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Aren't the tread wear indicators moulded at 3mm to give you advanced warning?
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>> Aren't the tread wear indicators moulded at 3mm to give you advanced warning?
Mine TWIs are at the legal min requirement of 1.6 mm.
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>> Aren't the tread wear indicators moulded at 3mm to give you advanced warning?
I've tyres that have two lots of TWIs. The deeper ones are an indication that the tyres should be replaced at 3mm for optimum rain performance (they've a little raindrop on the side-wall).
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>> My digital depth guage measures in 0.1mm increments.
For Kwikfit to suggest they can measure tread depth with enough accuracy to say the tyres are legal by 4/1000 of an inch is bull. And for the fleet co to believe it is moronic.
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>> Many things we do in live is foolish the way of the world.
>>
Taking a calculated risk is not necessarily foolish.
Most of the everyday risks we run are not even calculated at all.
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Wonderful....Nearly 80 posts about .1 of a millimetre ! It's legal at 1.7 but not at 1.5. In practice, you're going to skid the same distance whether one or the other ! The wall you hit will be the same strength whatever.
By the time someone checks them with an accurate enough gauge...and at the same spot on the tyre, they're going to be 1.0 mm and someone will be facing a fine or worse.
Driver and public safety doesn't seem to come into this....just money.
They need changing !
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>> Wonderful....Nearly 80 posts about .1 of a millimetre !
Thats 0.00125mm each post.
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So you're a mathematician already....oy vay ! :-)
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How much would this cost the leasing company if you were involved in an accident? It is a long story but about 300 miles after I had changed my 2mm tyres to brand new ones with good grip (better than the originals) I had to do one of the biggest emergency stops I have ever had to do (I was cut up by some maniac escaping something) I was just CM from being involved in a crash.
I wonder if I would have been able to stop in time if my worn eco tyres were still fitted at the time. Slightly OT but on my last rail trip to Spain (a couple of weeks ago) I spent quite a bit of time in Perpignan in southern France, I was quite shocked to see the state of the tyres on some of the vehicles there. Some of the tyres were not less than 1.6mm (not sure what the limit it is in France) there was no tread on them at all.
My dad used to always buy the cheapest tyres for the Lada (usually part worn) and we had quite a few incidents involving tyres . While I understanding the point that accounts are the bottom line sometimes the people doing the number crunching need to understand the bigger picture.
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Welcome to the world of spreadsheet management. Everything has a cost but nothing has a value !
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Rattle: How much would this cost the leasing company if you were involved in an accident?
Nothing, so long as the tyre were found to be above the legal minimum of 1.6 mm on inspection after the accident and the manufacturer hasn't stated tyres should be changed sooner.
Now whether it's a sensible use of their time and the OP's to argue the toss over 0.1mm that can't actually be measured reliably is another matter.
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> >Now whether it's a sensible use of their time and the OP's to argue the
>> toss over 0.1mm that can't actually be measured reliably is another matter.
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Probably nothing even its under. They would claim its the drivers duty to ensure they are legal, and if they were illegal you would have to prove they knew and refused to change them. Even if you could prove this the blame would still be laid at the drivers door for knowingly driving with poor tyres
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 27 Sep 14 at 21:19
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Lease company wont change tyres - spamcan61
