| Motoring Discussion > Replacement...where to next? | Green Issues |
| Thread Author: .... | Replies: 38 |
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New Sat 6 Sep 14 13:42
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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For the last near enough 6 years my wife has been driving a Citroën C4 Grand Picasso both of which have been leased. She loved the first and kind of defaulted to a second because she enjoyed the first one so much. The second she hates and I don't use that lightly. The eHDi just does not have the same pick up or throttle response or part throttle entering a flowing roundabout for example giving you that will it, won't it feeling. Replacement is due next springtime. I'm thinking we just go for it and buy the next car and run it until it dies however, looking at the EU targets for 2015 and 2020 average CO2 emissions are set for 130g/km and 95g/km respectively, the EU might kill whatever we opt for with emission based taxation long before the body and mechanical components are ready for the scrapper. Does it make sense to buy or do I stick with leasing? Requirements: Meet or exceed the above emissions for 2020 otherwise by the time the car is 6 years old the tax could be unreasonably stiff. We need a reasonably tall car for ease of entry/exit. Good size boot for school age children paraphernalia. Nothing too outlandishly big, Golf/Focus size footprint would be big enough. I thought I'd found the answer with the Subaru XV, the emissions have got me thinking is this a good move? Ford is a no go, Nissan Qashqai or anything Renault is out. Suggestions ? Last edited by: gmac on Sat 6 Sep 14 at 13:44
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New Sat 6 Sep 14 22:38
Replacement...where to next? - rtj70
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EU targets will be for new cars. Existing cars all be fine surely. I can't see retrospective taxation being too bad. Quite easy to get a car emitting 95g/km of CO2 now though. My heavy Passat CC GT 170PS diesel was/is 129g/km and that goes back next month. Replacement emits 109g/km. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 09:13
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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For me it would be easy. V60 D6 48g/km done. The problem I'm having is finding a higher car with low emissions. In 2013 there were 20 cars with fewer than 85g/km, 11 were electric only, which is not really an option with 7-800 mile drives on occasion unless we hire for those trips, 6 PHEV, 1 HEV and two diesel small hatchbacks. If you take your Passat which is going back, the average CO2 in the UK for 2013 new cars sold was 128g/km anyone buying your slightly used Passat will think 129g/km I am buying a clean car. It's now above average in 2014. The problem with the tax is it is not retrospective, no account is taken of the age of the vehicle only what the exhaust emissions were when it was new. All cars registered new since 23 March 2006 are all classed the same. The cost of the annual road tax is a minor part of the cost of motoring these days but it is nevertheless quite galling to find you are being forced to pay an increasing penalty on what was a clean car when you bought it. I recently looked at swapping my S60 for a last of line P2 V70 D5. The car was immaculate could not see any fault but the emissions were 209g/km. That car had only covered 27000 miles, by 2020 it would have 77,000 miles if I had gone ahead and as much of the car is aluminium will last for a long time to come. Can you imagine how welcome you will be to a city or town centre in 2020 with those kinds of emissions? That car will be an ornament. The alternative could be I buy whatever I like and write it off in my head over 4 years, anything beyond that is a bonus. The car will only have covered around 40,000 miles after 4 years which, to my mind, is a shockingly short lifespan. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 10:51
Replacement...where to next? - mikeyb
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May be a silly question, but have you taken the new C4 GP out for a decent test drive? Citroen claim its 140kg lighter so I wonder if that reduced weight might make it feel a bit more sprightly? Is 7 seats a must? |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 11:00
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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It's one of those I've had two of the same I don't want a third conundrum. My wife really does not like the current car and yet thought the first one was fantastic and did everythign she wanted a car to do. She thinks the new one looks challenging - fugly is another word which could be used. I was going to suggest a C4 Cactus but I don't think I could afford the divorce :-) 7 seats are a nice to have but no longer necessary which is why I thought I was on to a winner with the Subaru but then I started thinking emissions. I'm starting to come round to something small, cheap and can be thrown away and replaced. Hardly good for the environment but it keeps the tax revenues rolling in and with a lease at a predictable interval. Must be horrible in government trying to predict when Joe Bloggs is going to replace his private car, get everyone into a company car or lease scheme and it all suddenly becomes much more predictable. Last edited by: gmac on Sun 7 Sep 14 at 11:04
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 11:45
Replacement...where to next? - PeteW
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>>I was going to suggest a C4 Cactus but I don't think I could afford the divorce :-) Don't be so cowardly! Give it a look - especially as it offers exactly what you highlight as necessary in your next car. It also drives well, and if you are careful with the colour combinations - darker colours work better with the standard black airbumps, particularly Deep Purple - it can even look quite classy in an admittedly slightly goofy way. But hey, who wants to drive around in a boring euro-box anyway? |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 11:50
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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I agree, I thought it looked good in the dark metallic grey with the black air cushions. The fact they can be replaced for peanuts is also a good thing. What I'm trying to get out of this thread is what are other peoples thoughts when having to replace a family, private run car? I kind of want my cake and eat it by trying to future proof and limit my exposure as much as possible. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 18:22
Replacement...where to next? - Boxsterboy
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>> For me it would be easy. V60 D6 48g/km done. >> >> The problem I'm having is finding a higher car with low emissions. >> Don't they do that engine in the XC60? (Now or planned) |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 18:35
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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>> Don't they do that engine in the XC60? (Now or planned) >> Yes, it is available. I could lease another car while I wait for it though. Having an S60 myself I would not want another Volvo. They don't make 'em like they used to. I'll take a look at the new ones as and when they appear but the 2010-2015 cars I'll leave well alone. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 18:43
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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Missed the Edit: Sorry, no I don't think the D6 is available in anything other than the V60, I read that as D4 for some reason. There were some teething problems and now that engine and architecture are not part of the new Volvo so it may be a dead project. Last edited by: gmac on Sun 7 Sep 14 at 18:43
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 13:42
Replacement...where to next? - PeterS
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Well for the past 10 or 12 weeks I've spent a few days each week working in Scotland - Dundee to be precise. So I've become very familiar with the Avis desk at Edinburgh airport, and usually book a mid size car. Nominally that's a Kia C'eed, though I've never actually had one. However I have been through a reasonable selection of mid size hatchbacks in that time - my thoughts on the ones I've had Peugeot 308 HDi: Nice looking car, spacious, well equipped an comfortable. Very well put together, but non intuitve controls. Anything audio/climate related accessed via a touch screen, along with the navigation. Impossible to just get in and drive. It was only after driving for about 20 miles that I realised the fog lights were on:-). Economical though Citroen C4 Picasso HDi: Similar to the Peugeot, more space, worse handling. Again comfortable. VW Golf TSi: Surprising engine - torquey and economical. Car felt solid, but no Bluetooth or USB input. Felt larger than the Peugeot, though the boot was a similar size. Very relaxing on the motorway. VW Golf TDi: as above, but with a worse engine. I'd take the petrol every time. 40ish mpg vs 50ish not enough to compensate for the noise and vibration of the diesel. Vauxhall Astra 1.6 Petrol: only disappointing thing about this was the non turbo charged petrol engine. The A90 has a few hills and more torque would help. Comfortable, crisp handing and a good ide though. All very intuitive to use. Vauxhall Mokka CDTi 4x4: a bit bling - black, privacy glass and grey chrome alloys. Nice smooth diesel engine, and quiet. Very solid and felt pretty premium inside. But shocking fuel consumption. Driven like a normal car it averaged 32 mpg over 180miles. Lovely heated leather seats :-) MB A180 Petrol: fantastic performance / economy for a smallish petrol engine. Very smooth, swift and averaged 42 mpg. Incredibly relaxed on the motorway, but very well sorted handling. Would go round a certain roundabout faster than any of the other cars on this list ;-) Well equipped and good driving position. Rear visibility not great, but parking sensors good! MB A180 Diesel: As above, but the engine clearly is noiser. If anything the diesel is slightly quicker in the mid range, and mid 50s mpg is pretty good to. The stop/start is more intrusive on the diesel than the petrol. If I was buying one my money would go on a petrol MB A180 (though bear in mind I have no idea how much some of those cars actually cost - hire cars seem very well equipped nowadays!) It was by far the most sorted from a ride/handling perspective, well built, well equipped and, I think, good looking. The boot was a fair size, and no one complained about sitting in the back. It also has the best stereo :-) The most surprising were the vauxhalls - nice to drive, pretty well equipped and also well put together. Though if I'm honest there's not a bad car among them, but the French cars touch screen user interface is not what you want when you get in a strange car at 10 at night... Just my thoughts Last edited by: PeterS on Sun 7 Sep 14 at 13:46
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 15:18
Replacement...where to next? - Bromptonaut
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What's the problem with the eHdi? Is it the engine itself or does the C4, like Berlingo, include a semi auto 'flappy paddles' set up so as to lower emissions below 130g? FWIW our 1.6/115 HDI manual Berlingo is pretty rapid and while having the occasional hiccup when pulling away is certainly no problem to drive in free flowing traffic or in stop start. It's also plenty fast enough for overtakes and pulls a 1000kg caravan without difficulty. After a year and 20k miles its been pretty well faultless. I'd not hesitate to buy another were it to need replacing. How much are you assuming the tax will be by 2020 on vehicle with current emissions of say a new C4 piccasso? Have you allowed anything for possibility that by 2020 the lunatics will have taken the asylum and we'll be out of the EU? Though OTOH we'll probably still be bound by their directives as a condition of free trade while having no say at all in how they're made. To put it bluntly are you sure you're not putting too much weight on the tax thing and thus limiting your choice. Even an extra £300/pa in tax would be pretty small beer in overall scheme unless you're very low mileage. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 15:41
Replacement...where to next? - sooty123
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I'd agree with Bromptonaut. I can't understand the tax issue with people buying new cars, these new cars often cost 10,000s of pounds, a few quid extra a month in tax in a drop in the ocean in terms of all the costs of buying and running a new car. I've a car that costs £285 a year in tax, some people shudder at the cost, yet buy a new car every 3 years, at god knows what cost. Go figure, as the say. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 15:59
Replacement...where to next? - sherlock47
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>>1.6/115 HDI manual Berlingo is pretty rapid and while having the occasional hiccup when pulling away is certainly no problem to drive in free flowing traffic or in stop start. << >>>The eHDi just does not have the same pick up or throttle response or part throttle entering a flowing roundabout for example giving you that will it, won't it feeling.<<< My eHDi Berlingo 90 bhp is perfectly ok on the open road and when working in stop/start slow moving traffic. However it does benefit a certain mechanical empathy when 'rolling up' to a roundabout. Having failed to kill me in the first few days of ownership, I soon worked out how to drive into a moving roundabout. What happens is that because it is moving it holds 2nd gear, which would normally be ok for a pull into spaced traffic, but when you then floor it, to pull into the rapidly disappearing gap, it decides that you really did want 1st gear. The slight hesitation in pulling in front of a 40 tonner can focus the mind and potentially relax some muscles. The secret is if it looks like heavy/fast traffic situation, ensure that you have selected 1st gear manually before executing the manouvre. Basic driving skill that you loose when driving an auto. In all other aspects the auto is brilliant and I do not hesitate to say it changes gear better than I could. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 16:29
Replacement...where to next? - Zero
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Laddo currently has a 2013 VW Sharran on the drive, huge old bus we just used to take my mums old fridge freezer, double bed (broken up) and double mattress to the dump. Swallowed them all. Its the 2.0 tdi executive model with leather and sat nav, and it has hands off park assist - an unnerving but very effective and accurate system. He reset the MPG when he got it (three days ago) and its showing 46mpg, really good for this huge beast. Its very noisy however, road and engine, all the leather captains chairs squeak and rattle and I hate it with a passion. Its a van trying not to be, and fails. Oh and fifi2 wont get in the back of that either despite looking like a concert hall from her eye level. Last edited by: Zero on Sun 7 Sep 14 at 16:30
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 16:41
Replacement...where to next? - Zero
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>> Oh and fifi2 wont get in the back of that either despite looking like a >> concert hall from her eye level. Oh and bang goes my cast iron excuse for buying a new car, |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 20:34
Replacement...where to next? - PeteW
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>>>The eHDi just does not have the same pick up or throttle response or part throttle entering a flowing roundabout for example giving you that will it, won't it feeling.<<< This can to a great extent be helped if you brake slowing into a junction rather than just take your foot off the accelerator which is what many seem to naturally do. By braking the computer in the transmission assumes you are coming to a junction/halt and that its next action will be to facilitate acceleration. If you just de-accelerate the computer does not understand what the next action might be - hence the hesitancy so many experience. the new models have a ETG version of the semi-auto which IS an improvement but will never be as smooth as a true auto. |
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New Mon 8 Sep 14 12:42
Replacement...where to next? - Dutchie
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Brother in law has the same set up.Semi automatic. You either get used to the way it works or you don't.He is happy with it had the car for six years. I like the C4 Grand Picasso mine is he six gear.About 50mpg and comfy to drive.I am in two minds buying the car after the lease. I've had the spare tyre rack fitted and the boot is a good size.I have used the seven seats a few times. Don't worry to much about emission controls for the future. Buy or lease what you like and enjoy it. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 17:49
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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Thanks all for your various replies. TBH I had not even considered a Mercedes B Class having driven the previous abomination. For some reason I have always liked the A, C and E but not the B. What's wrong with the eHDi? It is an EGS equipped car but then so was the first car. In the refining process they have changed the gear change pattern from going into 6th at 80kph to 70kph which just feels like when the car is waking up. I've used the paddles to set the gear on approach to the junction/roundabout or whatever and still it does not respond in the way other clutch based drivetrains do. I rarely drive the car, I do agree with my wife though this one just feels "sluggish". Once moving it's fine with just the initial takeup that does not feel right. It's been back to Citroën a couple of times for resetting (I can pull the battery and shut everything down) it makes no difference. It's a shame really because everything else about the car she loves though note taken from PeterS above about these new touchscreens to control everything. I don't think that will go down well. The looks are also challenging, not quite Nissan Juke but heading in that direction. In terms of tax, you're right, it's small beer in the overall picture of running a car I just don't want to be hamstrung from the off. As has often been quoted, the cheapest car to run is the one you're in. Therefore, I want to buy this time and keep as long as possible. That almost certainly means no 200+g/km fire breathing monsters. Zero - you're latest addition, is it possible as a pup was bounced around in the back of a car before ? There was someone on here who used to make dog cages. Would one of those in the back of a Jaguar XF wagon work ? Bit of man maths to justify the cage and a Oh! that ? when questioned by Nicole, that was just in there/part of the deal. ;-) Last edited by: gmac on Sun 7 Sep 14 at 17:50
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 18:00
Replacement...where to next? - Zero
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>> Zero - you're latest addition, is it possible as a pup was bounced around in >> the back of a car before ? Its been everywhere in a purpose made dog cage in a VW LWB caddy >> There was someone on here who used to >> make dog cages. Would one of those in the back of a Jaguar XF wagon >> work ? I could make it work, |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 18:32
Replacement...where to next? - sherlock47
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>>> I've used the paddles to set the gear on approach to the junction/roundabout or whatever and still it does not respond in the way other clutch based drivetrains do. I rarely drive the car, I do agree with my wife though this one just feels "sluggish". <<< have you tried other cars from the same range? Is it a one off (ie that car) problem, or consistent with others. From mine I have the impression that the change up point varies withe degree of throttle opening. Certainly 70k would seem a very low speed to select 6th under acceleration conditions. I might go and try it this evening:) |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 18:40
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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In our experience it affects the eHDi EGS models. Other cars i.e. not eHDi EGS cars we've had while this one has been in for service and reprogramming have been fine. The car has never failed or let us down so no reason to say French cars load of rubbish etc... just not happy with it which could be a bargaining tool when negotiating a new lease kind of I can take it or leave it what have you got. The long build lead times means I need to start the process now if we are going to buy and get the exact spec we want next time. You're right, the change up pattern is determined by the load. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 18:50
Replacement...where to next? - Bromptonaut
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Do you need the EGS setup or is it a preference thing? Doesn't seem to be much point if your constantly needing to keep a step ahead of it. Our plain vanilla manual Berlingo has a 'feature' whereby just occasionally it doesn't pick up as quickly first/stationary as it should. Not enough to cause more than an incipient sphincter pucker and it makes up for it by going rapidly to scalded cat mode but I'd prefer it was consistent. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 19:18
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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The EGS was a nice to have while my wife got used to driving LHD and all the local differences from what she was used to in the UK, she could do a manual now. While this car will not be registered in the UK we are still subject to the musings of the EU so while the local road tax system differs from the UK in how it is implemented it's all much of a muchness. The tax system does not encourage diesel for low mileage drivers. What we pay for the 1.6eHDi I could have taxed a V6 Alfa petrol. The difference is diesel is around the low 130s a litre where petrol is in the mid to high 150s. Given we have only been getting around 37/38mpg out of the C4 GP with 7-10% Bio-diesel, a decent petrol is looking good. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 20:29
Replacement...where to next? - Bromptonaut
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>> The EGS was a nice to have while my wife got used to driving LHD >> and all the local differences from what she was used to in the UK, she >> could do a manual now. Ahh right. I'd forgotten you were an expat. Ignore my musings about a UK outwith the EU. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 20:41
Replacement...where to next? - Armel Coussine
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The more I read about these trick modern autos the more I am put off. I tried one once - a Golf diesel - and in auto mode it behaved oddly, although I didn't have long enough in the car to come to terms with it. It seemed to favour pedal-to-the-metal driving. It's true the thing had another sequential mode and flappy paddles too I think. But a manual would be better. The autos that work best are torque convertor three-speeds with big V8 engines. You know where you are with those if they are working properly. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 20:44
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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>> The autos that work best are torque convertor three-speeds with big V8 engines. You know >> where you are with those if they are working properly. >> The number of gears in the boxes now I think they are made in Switzerland by watch makers rather than auto engineers. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 20:51
Replacement...where to next? - Armel Coussine
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>> The number of gears in the boxes now I think they are made in Switzerland by watch makers rather than auto engineers. Yeah, and a properly sorted Mustang or Camaro will go faster and last four times as long. The quest for efficiency crosses the reliability curve. At that point problems arise. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 21:03
Replacement...where to next? - Zero
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>> >> The autos that work best are torque convertor three-speeds with big V8 engines. You >> know >> >> where you are with those if they are working properly. >> >> >> The number of gears in the boxes now I think they are made in Switzerland >> by watch makers rather than auto engineers. The auto box in Nicoles Fezza is pretty well sorted. Only 4 gears (and a backwards) mean in auto mode its not constantly in the wrong gear and happy to change down with some heavy right foot. In manual mode its a delight, happy to swop cogs quickly up or down the box at a nudge of the +/- stick as long as it means you will be within the rev limiter. Not economical tho and of course it needs more horsepower, but yeah Autoboxes have far too many gears these days. |
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New Sun 7 Sep 14 23:48
Replacement...where to next? - Avant
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| Looking at your wishlist, I'd suggest the new Golf SV. Not sure if it's been officially launched yet, but it will be soon. The 1.4 petrol will probably be the one to go for. |
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New Mon 8 Sep 14 06:44
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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We looked at one of these a few weeks ago. They certainly look good value when compared with the rest of the Golf range downside is the plastics are the hard and scratchy sort. Still one to bare in mind. |
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New Mon 8 Sep 14 08:10
Replacement...where to next? - Old Navy
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| On my car hard and scratchy means durable. I don't scratch my nether regions on the cars dashboard anyway. |
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New Mon 8 Sep 14 08:48
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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| Neither do I. I do however rest my arm on top of the door at window level. After twenty minutes of a 10 hour drive hard and scratchy becomes annoying and unwanted. |
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New Mon 8 Sep 14 08:52
Replacement...where to next? - Zero
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>> Neither do I. I do however rest my arm on top of the door at >> window level. After twenty minutes of a 10 hour drive hard and scratchy becomes annoying >> and unwanted. You need leather patches on the elbows of your cardigan. ON is still wearing his navy pullovers and hasn't noticed. |
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New Mon 8 Sep 14 09:23
Replacement...where to next? - Old Navy
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:) My car armrests are leather. :-p |
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New Mon 8 Sep 14 09:40
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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>> You need leather patches on the elbows of your cardigan. ON is still wearing his >> navy pullovers and hasn't noticed. >> That's it ! What we need is a camper van. I can recline in the back, have a snooze, and not worry about what's going on at the pointy end. |
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New Thu 11 Sep 14 10:05
Replacement...where to next? - Gromit
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Thinking differently gmac, do you need (or want) to buy a new car? The thinknig on what's "green" changes so often these days that I'm not sure spending more to buy a "future proof" car is even possible. Here in Ireland, there was a big push to move buyers towards diesels with lower CO2 emissions from 2008 onwards, with lower registration and road taxes. But now that the bulk of cars meet the requirements for lower-rate taxes, lo and behold the rules have been revised and the tax rates increased! The upshot was we were pleasantly surprised at the range of decent pre-2008 cars available for our €5500 buy-for-cash budget when we changed cars last year. We picked up a tidy 2006 petrol Honda FRV with 85000 miles on, but you could get just about any similar age & mileage Focus or larger you like for similar money so long as its petrol and not a BMW/Merc/Audi. We can buy a lot of fuel and tax for what you'd save on the cost of buying (or financing) a new tax-rule-friendly car, and we won't be badly out of pocket if/when the powers that be decide to promote hybrids/small petrols/buses/God-knows-what instead... |
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New Thu 11 Sep 14 10:14
Replacement...where to next? - ....
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I have no real preference and my purpose of this thread was to sound out what others are thinking with regard to future motoring. Company cars are different, you go for what is available to you at a rate you are happy to pay with a nod to the environment if you want to go for a Prius or suchlike. For the private motorist who needs a car to cover c.10k miles per year, the car has a reasonable 10+ year life ahead of it. If I buy then that is what I am looking for. If I lease then it is almost similar to the company car driver as it will be gone in three years. Taking local tax rates into consideration I have found a two year old Skoda Yeti that's done 13k miles for half of list. 1.8 turbo with 4x4, could be a bit of fun in a boxy wagon. |
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New Thu 11 Sep 14 13:30
Replacement...where to next? - Gromit
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FWIW, I've concluded there are two ways make sense for the (Irish, at least) private motorist: Where you can expect to keep the car a long time, buy young, but as cheap as as possible, so someone else took the worst of the depreciation. Then sell it on just before you would consider scrapping it. Our Legacy estate was bought at 3 years/15000 miles to be the main family car for as long as it lasts. It was a petrol when everyone else was switching to diesel - but I'd have had to do 15000 miles a year for 8 years to break even on buying an equivalent diesel! Otherwise, buy middle-aged for cash where you cover lower mileage or might need to change the car. We got our FRV to fit child seats and inlaws, so we'll probably outgrow it in a few years. Bangernomics doesn't work here, even 10 year old cars can still make 000s, especially small ones. My impression is its similar in France and Holland too, for example. That Yeti sounds promising. A bit like my old Forester. I still miss that one, but a looming €2200 bill on an 11 year old 182,000 miler about to be insured for a 24 year old just didn't add up... |
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