>> In a totally irrational way I shall miss them.
www.velology.com
Something to do on those rainy days in your Caravan?
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I might put the 1976 one from my Wolseley Hornet on the Merc. Although it'll most probably upset or perhaps even delight someone in a hi-vis jacket.
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Thinking of buying the year I was born to stick in mine. (no pre 1921 jokes please)
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 26 Aug 14 at 20:15
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I've only just recently mastered the tearing out of the disc technique without ripping the edges. Now you see there's a skill future generations will regrettably lose. Like starting a fire with dry twigs and a flint I suppose.
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>> I've only just recently mastered the tearing out of the disc technique without ripping the
>> edges. Now you see there's a skill future generations will regrettably lose. Like starting a
>> fire with dry twigs and a flint I suppose.
Well being a smoker, you always had your lighter with you I guess.
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>> I've only just recently mastered the tearing out of the disc technique without ripping the edges.
I never did master it. The holes are unnecessarily big and much too far apart. I doubt if the design has changed since before 1921 when Zero got his first steam tricycle.
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I've got a box full of oldish discs...don't know why but I sort of saved them and stuck em on the workshop wall with spray glue. I took them off when the walls were due a re-paint.
One of them is for a Jowett, issued in 1958 so I'll probably put that on the old car. Can't see any offence there.
Well, I need something to put in my original Bakelite, main agent tax disc holder.
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It was always a strange custom, providing perforations in the hope that that would make it easier to tear something straight. Obviously it doesn't, because drilling a hole in advance of a tear or crack is a standard method of stopping it advancing further.
I long ago resorted to scissors for tax discs, partly because the fury edges left after tearing the perforations sometimes interfered with the kind of disc sticker that required the disc to be absolutely flat and as thin as possible.
Why do stamps still have perforations, even though they are pre-separated and stuck removeably on shiny sheets?
The most irritating use of the practice? "Tear along dotted line" when the dotted line is not in fact perforated. Cue for ragged ripped edge along your precious application form.
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I never understood why they used a die cutting process to stamp the perforations into the sheet post printing, but didn't go all the way and cut the disc out completely. They could have used the same kit, just a different die set.
Last edited by: DP on Wed 27 Aug 14 at 09:35
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>> I never understood why they used a die cutting process to stamp the perforations into
>> the sheet post printing, but didn't go all the way and cut the disc out
>> completely. They could have used the same kit, just a different die set.
Maybe the blank sheet is supplied pre-stamped? And machine envelope stuffing would be almost impossible with a small round sheet.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 27 Aug 14 at 09:38
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>> >> I never understood why they used a die cutting process to stamp the perforations
>> into
>> >> the sheet post printing, but didn't go all the way and cut the disc
>> out
>> >> completely. They could have used the same kit, just a different die set.
>>
>> Maybe the blank sheet is supplied pre-stamped? And machine envelope stuffing would be almost impossible
>> with a small round sheet.
>>
They will almost certainly be printed multiple times -up on a flat sheet and then perforated, and guillotined down to the finished size after printing. Most high speed printers would struggle with coarse perforations like that. For one thing, if you have a stack of paper with perforations, the top most sheet won't sit square as the perforation adds a minute 'bump' to the paper surface. Multiplied by a few hundred or even a few thousand sheets, thats enough to cause an inch or more variation in the height of the stack across the top sheet, almost guaranteeign feeding issues. Also perforations have a nasty habit of sticking to other perforations when stacked, which also causes multiple feeds.
In volume production printing, the printing is almost always done on virgin sheet, many times up for maximum cost efficiency. It is then cut down, and perfs or other finishing is appled after the print process.
Very good point on the envelope stuffing though. :-)
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So how do I now know how to grass up folk that don't pay road tax??
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you could switch to benefit cheats?
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>> So how do I now know how to grass up folk that don't pay road tax??
You don't have to - they will already be caught out now. Not having a tax disc makes little difference. The computers at the DVLA already know which cars are on the road without road tax being paid. Of course someone could still SORN a car and drive it on the road.
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Great piece in the DM:
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2735267/Why-worried-secretive-death-car-tax-disc-writes-GUY-WALTERS.html
There can be little doubt that hundreds, if not thousands, of people will be getting letters informing them they haven’t paid their road tax, simply because the ANPR has confused their number plates for those of the real dodgers.
So the ANPR gets the wrong number (ie. a tax dodger's) from your car, but somehow gets the correct owner details (including your address) from some other attribute of the vehicle. Is this some new technology only the DM knows about? :)
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Blimey, Hans Christian Anderson would be proud of that article.
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Why do they need to use ANPR? If your car hasn't been declared SORN and it hasn't been taxed, then they will fine you. They don't need to catch you driving it anywhere.
Of course catching a SORN car being driven on the road requires ANPR.
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>> Why do stamps still have perforations, even though they are pre-separated and stuck removeably on shiny sheets?
Do they? I can't recall the self adhesive stamps having perforations.
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>>
>> Do they? I can't recall the self adhesive stamps having perforations.
>>
Yes - I've just checked.
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Having just googled, some of the self adhesive ones have perforations, some don't.
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Are they really perforations if they have been cut during manufacturing? Is the pattern not there just for decoration because that is how stamps looked when we did have perforations to enable us to tear them apart?
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Do we tear round or take it more slowly to make it last?
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>> Are they really perforations if they have been cut during manufacturing? Is the pattern not
>> there just for decoration because that is how stamps looked when we did have perforations
>> to enable us to tear them apart?
>>
That's like the question, does a hole have an existence before it is surrounded by matter?
(Polo. the hole with the mint round, as my grandfather used to say)
Proper perforations are also cut during manufacture. After they have been torn, are they still perforations? Is half a perforation still a perforation?
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"That's like the question, does a hole have an existence before it is surrounded by matter?"
But does matter exist since it's basically empty space?
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>> "That's like the question, does a hole have an existence before it is surrounded by
>> matter?"
>> But does matter exist since it's basically empty space?
>>
Reminds me of a problem we had many years ago with New Zealand customs.
One of our team had a box of IMB punched cards to be delivered to Wellington NZ.
Customs tried to charge for importing ( used) punched cards.
The argument was that there was no real value in the punched cards. The cards were just the means of carrying the holes which were the valuable part !!
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I really do think there are one or two on this thread in need of a good woman with a long 'to do' list;)
Pat
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Fact of the day:
Matter is mostly empty space 99.9999999999999% empty space to be a little more exact.
If you could take away the empty space then all the subatomic particles in all the six billion people on planet earth would pack into a volume only a little larger than a grain of rice.
Amazing heh?
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I've always tried to hang onto the original car dealer's tax disc holder (and number plates) where possible as I think it shows originality and a car that has been cared for. What to do now with the redundant tax disc holder?
Discard it? Keep it as a parking ticket holder? Any other suggestions?
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Hang on....!! All these engineers and professionals on here !!! Simples. New tax disc arrives, tear along the "holding square" at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock intervals, then use the perforations from 12 to 3 then 3 to 6 then 6-9 and finally 9-12 the outer holding falls away in segments....what's so hard about that ?? The design was a classic - very hard to forge a circular perforated disc - even now that's prohibitively difficult to create a perforated circular disc - that's before they put any other security features on...!
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Half a perforation, would be a serration I guess.
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The holder on the vintage car will remain, but the 'tax disc' will be a replica of the first one in 1930. All ready and sitting by my computer. Not expensive either, see here:
www.poplargreg.com/
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The perforation problem has been solved, between now and the abolition of the paper disc DVLA will be printing discs on plain paper as they have run out of perforated paper and will not be restocking for the last few weeks of the disc issue.
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>> The perforation problem has been solved, between now and the abolition of the paper disc
>> DVLA will be printing discs on plain paper as they have run out of perforated
>> paper and will not be restocking for the last few weeks of the disc issue.
If they were really bright, they would sent it to you by email and tell you to print the sodding thing yourself.
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Maybe they are bright enough to realise that not everyone has a printer.
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>> Maybe they are bright enough to realise that not everyone has a printer.
Don't matter, the disk aint needed.
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>>
>> Don't matter, the disk aint needed.
>>
Would you trust a jobsworth on commision of some type not to give you a ticket for "Failure to display" between now and October 1st?
The authorities have been informed about the "new format" discs.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 28 Aug 14 at 13:16
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I don't think anyone has been charged with "failure to display" for years.
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OK, why don't you, and Zero, bin your tax discs now and let us know how you got on in early October?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 28 Aug 14 at 18:21
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Ok I have just taken mine out.
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Mine expires the end of August. I won't display the new one. How about a small donation to charity if we don't get booked ON?
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No problem, it will go to Macmillan Cancer Support.
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>> No problem, it will go to Macmillan Cancer Support.
>>
Nice one. Diary noted!
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I paid for one back in May. It has never arrived. I don't think they sent it. I haven't been pulled. If Plod ever asks if he can pull me for it, computer say no evidently.
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>> I don't think anyone has been charged with "failure to display" for years.
>>
We got a failure to display fine last year on one of our work vans. IIRC it was £60.
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>> Was it taxed?
>>
Yes it was. I was stunned as like others on here I didn't think that they would bother as they could check it on the computer to confirm that it was taxed.
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They might become collector's items.
A rare imperf specimen of the September 2014 vehicle licence disc, uncut, in mint condition.
or
A last day cover of the September 2014 vehicle licence disc, nicely trimmed with good margins, stamped "11.59 pm 30 September 2014".
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Whilst we're on the subject of the tax disc, is it quite legit for me to remove mine from my windscreen on October 1st and bin it? My tax for 12 months was renewed in July.
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I will not rush to remove mine. I will wait until I am sure the "Display" offence has been officially withdrawn and all the jobsworths have had time for it to sink in. No point in provoking possible hassle.
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>> Whilst we're on the subject of the tax disc, is it quite legit for me
>> to remove mine from my windscreen on October 1st and bin it? My tax for
>> 12 months was renewed in July.
>>
Yes. As of 1 October the requirement to display the VED licence is removed. This applies to existing licences as well as new ones (not) issued after that date.
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>> Yes. As of 1 October the requirement to display the VED licence is removed. This
>> applies to existing licences as well as new ones (not) issued after that date.
>>
DVLA may know the new rules but will the street level enforcers be up to date? I will give them time to get the message.
www.gov.uk/government/news/vehicle-tax-changes
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 2 Sep 14 at 17:41
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I'm leaving my disc on until it expires as a reminder I will need to do something about renewing it in the month before. Might go for monthly dd payments.
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Given that mine is zero, I'm not sure what the point of a penalty for not "paying" it is. I suppose it would be a penalty for not telling them I still have the car and it's still on the road, in effect.
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>> I'm leaving my disc on until it expires as a reminder I will need to
>> do something about renewing it in the month before. Might go for monthly dd payments.
>>
In the link above it says that DVLA will send out a renewal reminder, I assume it will include a renewal code for online renewal as the current one does.
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>> I'm leaving my disc on until it expires as a reminder I will need to do something about
>> renewing it in the month before.
They send reminders... They have for years.
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>> They send reminders... They have for years.
>>
This year I got the normal one and then a second one with, in red letters at the top "Expired" and a bigger bold number 30 and very big bolder number 06
Under the Dear MR K....
In larger type "Last" and even bigger bold type " chance!"
This prompted me to SORN my Mondeo until it is fit for its MoT.
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I do know they send reminders! For warned is for armed though.
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So my car tax (company car) is up at the end of Sept. I assume I'll not get anything. Fine by me.
So in the new car (might get mid October now) it legally has to show a non-smoking sign (company car) which is currently on the inside of the tax disc... so I might not get a nice clear windscreen come early October :-)
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I have just received the tax for the LEC. To my regret it is a sheet of paper which has a disc surrounded by perforations.
Blast! I was quite looking forward to a plain sheet of paper. Small pleasures.
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>> I have just received the tax for the LEC. To my regret it is a
>> sheet of paper which has a disc surrounded by perforations.
Mrs B's has just landed on doormat, disc in 'new' format.
Frankly it looks like it's been printed on laser or inkjet. If I'd seen it on a car I was intending to buy I'd think it was a forgery.
The covering letter explains, in admirably clear jargon free English, why it's as it is and how the rules change next month.
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However, motorists shouldn’t rip up their old disc when the new system is introduced. Modern discs are set to increase in value, collectors predicted, with new emergency-issue non‑perforated disks likely to fetch the most.
'Keep those discs about to expire' "
You can't parody anything these days. I thought I was making it up, but apparently it's likely to be really true.
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>> However, motorists shouldn’t rip up their old disc when the new system is introduced. Modern
>> discs are set to increase in value, collectors predicted, with new emergency-issue non‑perforated disks likely
>> to fetch the most.
>>
>> 'Keep those discs about to expire' "
I reckon the tax disc holders will become quite valuable in the future.
If you speak to me nicely, I could put you in touch with someone who bought 20 of them a few months back and still has 19 left.
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>> If you speak to me nicely, I could put you in touch with someone who
>> bought 20 of them a few months back and still has 19 left.
Good forward planning that man.
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This guy has a complete set. All 270,000 of them.seems relieve he can stop collecting now.
www.theguardian.com/money/2014/aug/29/end-of-car-tax-disc
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>> So in the new car (might get mid October now) it legally has to show
>> a non-smoking sign (company car) which is currently on the inside of the tax disc...
So how long has that been? Which piece of legislation?
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>> So how long has that been? Which piece of legislation?
>>
Its been law for a few years now. Not that any of our company vehicles have got them in now that I can recall.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 3 Sep 14 at 10:23
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>> Its been law for a few years now. Not that any of our company vehicles
>> have got them in now that I can recall.
>>
What are you charged with if you fail to comply?
By the same logic, shouldn't there be no-smoking signs in company vans?
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Yes, and they should also display a sign.
It became law when the smoking ban started and all lorries and company vehicles should display a sign.
We do get checked for the sign but only when pulled in for another reason. (...and if the driver has attitude!)
Pat
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The law on smoking in company vehicles seems to be ignored.
As I understand it, smoking in company vehicles is prohibited - even if all the people in the vehicle are smokers and are happy for smoking to take place. Is that correct?
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Yes that's correct.
I know a husband and wife team who run a small business employing no-one other than themselves.
They both smoke and have a car and a small van for delivering their own goods in.
They are not allowed to smoke in the van despite no-one else ever driving it.
Pat
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It entirely depends on the definition "company vehicle". That can change depending on what it is being used for.
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What are the exemptions then?
Pat
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I don't think there are any. It's a commercial vehicle and is can be used by two or more people so the regulations apply.
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www.gov.uk/smoking-at-work-the-law
Smoking in work vehicles
Smoking isn’t allowed in any work vehicle that more than 1 person uses, eg:
taxis
buses
vans
goods vehicles used by more than 1 driver
company cars used by more than 1 employee
A worker can smoke in a company car that only they use if their employer agrees.
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>> What are the exemptions then?
>>
>> Pat
Company cars. They can be work places or they can not be workplaces at any part of the day and various circumstances.
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That doesn't apply, otherwise it would apply to lorries and vans as well.
Pat
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>> That doesn't apply, otherwise it would apply to lorries and vans as well.
>>
>> Pat
Lorries have no other purpose than commercial. Company cars have both.
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Tell that to the thousands of owners of show vehicles and vintage lorries.
The fact that a lorry driver can have a lorry from new for three years until it's sold, be the only driver, live in it for up to 6 days at a time counts for nothing.
The argument is that when it is serviced fitters have to get in the vehicle.....likewise with company cars.
Pat
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>> The fact that a lorry driver can have a lorry from new for three years
>> until it's sold, be the only driver, live in it for up to 6 days
>> at a time counts for nothing.
I've not had time to look at the legislation (which I suspect will be detailed in regulations separate from the act but the govt. page on the ban states ban applies only to goods vehicles used by more than one driver.
www.gov.uk/smoking-at-work-the-law
If more than one it would be a perverse EHO who prosecuted where two or three in small firm where all three agreed.
Show/vintage are surely private rather than places of work and outwith ban altogether, unless legislation is further tightened.
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EHO???
Environmental Health Officer?
They are the worst. I even had a traffic warden who I asked to move a car on double yellows so I could stop blocking a back street of Bath, tell me he was going to report me for smoking in a company vehicle.
Clipboard and uniform, say no more.
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Thu 4 Sep 14 at 16:16
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>> Tell that to the thousands of owners of show vehicles and vintage lorries.
>>
>> The fact that a lorry driver can have a lorry from new for three years
>> until it's sold, be the only driver, live in it for up to 6 days
>> at a time counts for nothing.
>>
>> The argument is that when it is serviced fitters have to get in the vehicle.....likewise
>> with company cars.
>>
>> Pat
Thats not at all the argument, The lorries and vans you mention have COMMERCIAL tax. Kinda makes them COMMERCIAL don't you think? I was talking about company cars that are sometimes used for commercial reasons but hey I am not going to bandy words with you when you are entrenched in "lorry world"
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All I know is for my employer a company car is always a no smoking zone. At all times. Regardless of who is in the car etc. Doesn't impact this non-smoker.
If you drive your own car on company business it is a little different - but when used for business purposes they are a non-smoking environment.
The key phrase is: "A worker can smoke in a company car that only they use if their employer agrees.".... My employer does not agree so a company car is non smoking. And you can't even smoke in your own car in the car park... smoking is only allowed in designated areas.
Anyway come October I assume I will have a no smoking sticker in my new car - just not sure if it will be where the tax disc holder is now.
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>>And you can't even smoke in your own car in the car park... smoking is only allowed in designated areas.>>
That is a serious step too far. None of anyone else's business.
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You can tax a lorry as a PLG and free if it's historic and not used for goods. Likewise, I can drive it on my car licence.
Shoots off to have a whiz about in a tank transporter.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Thu 4 Sep 14 at 21:08
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Have often wanted to use this rule to have a go in a bus. Slipping down the bus lane, terrorising cyclists...
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>> In the link above it says that DVLA will send out a renewal reminder, I
>> assume it will include a renewal code for online renewal as the current one does.
>>
You are in Scotland, ON?
There will be a new Scottish DVLA with all the fun of the change-over, cross-border recognition, different regulations?
Is Scotland going to have vehicle licensing and taxation? Might Scotland retain the tax disc?
I don't think Darling grilled Salmon on those points.
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>> You are in Scotland, ON?
>>
>> There will be a new Scottish DVLA with all the fun of the change-over, cross-border
>> recognition, different regulations?
>>
>> Is Scotland going to have vehicle licensing and taxation? Might Scotland retain the tax disc?
>> I don't think Darling grilled Salmon on those points.
>>
Like almost everything to do with independence, no one knows. It is a leap into the dark.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 3 Sep 14 at 11:14
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Of course setting up a Scottish DVLA and other new government organisations won't cost much and everyone living in Scotland will be much better off.
If you want to get a tax disc for October 1st and still have perforations, then a trip to the Post Office might be the best bet. Their stock hasn't been run down like at the DVLA.
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I received my last ever tax disc in the post yesterday and was quite excited to tear round the perforations for the very last time. BUT! The rotters have just printed the disc out as part of the letter, which has no perforations. The letter spouts some cost saving twoddle.
Disappointed was I....
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It will be a collector's item. Don't cut it out, just carefully fold the letter and display the disc intact until October, then preserve it.
An uncut disc complete with letter in mint condition - think of it's value in 50 years' time!
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I got my last one yesterday as well. It has perforations 'cos I got it at the local post office.
The perforations worked for once without any tearing of the important bit.
It's now sitting proudly in it's holder on the bike's front mudguard. I'll frame it in a month and put it on the garage wall.
I succumbed to temptation and contacted Slidey's replica disc man. I now have three 1952 discs with Make, reg and colour. Stamped 1st July 1952 by Blackpool issuing authority.
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Extract from Confused.com
"But isn't that just a way for the government to make more money?
Given that it's only possible to pay for unclaimed months, then if a car is sold mid-month both the buyer and the seller will pay car tax for that month, making it a double payment. However, the DVLA says that the change is intended to be cost neutral and that although they recognise that in some cases there may be a double tax, this is offset by paying automatic refunds rather than requiring the seller to fill in the necessary paperwork, and by reducing the surcharge for spreading the payments. "
So yes two lots of duty will be paid for the same period then.
Clearly an improvement in the system but not in favour of the wrung dry motorist.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Mon 15 Sep 14 at 16:47
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I renewed mine on line today and all I got for £205 was a email with a application reference number.
Also one line about the law change and the need not to display a disc.Used to look forward to receiving
the new disc and putting it on display.
Last edited by: mazda chris on Mon 15 Sep 14 at 19:12
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I expect most cars will 'change hands' on the last day of the month as far as DVLA can see....!
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Tear round dotted line. - Zero
