The evening paper today announced the application of 20mph speed restrictions over 111 miles of streets in the City of Manchester.
Most seem to be in areas where terraced housing is predominant. One large area not far from our mansion is bisected by a road I use to get into the city every day or so, This already has 2 sections of 20 plus speed pads. The limit is generally ignored but traffic seems happy bimbling along at around 30 anyway. In fact, for all the fuss about speeding, I rarely see any evidence of this around the city. There's always the odd idiot, of course, but on the whole most drivers seem happy to obey the posted limits.
The new 20 limits come into force next Monday and will be enforceable by law....although who's going to enforce them is a mystery. The council says it's to cut down on accidents but, really, are there enough in a city environment to bother about. I can appreciate outside schools and in back streets where kiddies play but a blanket limit seems a bit ott. Apparently, the signage is up and will be unveiled over the weekend.
This is just in the Manchester City Council area not Greater Manchester although some of the borough councils are also considering the measures.
I'll just have to slip into double mimse mode....ah well !
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It will be speedbumps next Ted. Seems to be the fashion in this borough anyway.
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>> I'll just have to slip into double mimse mode....ah well !
You don't really have to Horatio. 20mph limits are just there to please the silly residents and you can ignore them. I always do.
It's also possible to go over speed bumps at speed, indeed some are no problem at all, very wide ones whose on and off ramps aren't too brutal. The ones that are a problem are the short sharp ones. They too can be crossed at some speed, but the technique needed to avoid banging the car's chin on the road is a bit brutal, so you won't often do it in your own jalopy.
Speed cushions, even nasty ones, can always be straddled at any speed. Supposed to cause wear on the inside edges of tyres and strain various front suspension components. But I do it a lot and my jalopy doesn't seem affected so far. Of course if you're lucky in the road you can swerve about and avoid the damn things altogether.
None of this appeals to mimsers or even respectable motorists. But I hope you aren't one of those. Ex copper, sure to have a bit of larceny in your soul what?
Have you seen Ratto lately? I worry about him. Silly I know.
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The 20mph limits are coming from the EU's 30kph limit for this class of road. They are being implemented all over the UK and EU from Göttingen to Nottingham. They are enforced by the police on foot or in cars holding 'hairdryers' around here - and until recently I haven't seen them do that for >10 years.
TBH, in Trotskyite-run Nottingham, it doesn't make a big difference to me and there are worse things to worry about such as red-cascade traffic-light phasing, rip-off parking charges and workplace parking levy.
Last edited by: Shiny Tailpipes on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 18:56
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>> The 20mph limits are coming from the EU's 30kph limit for this class of road.
I confidently expect our prime minister to renegotiate that one before agreeing to allow the EU to proceed. There are a few other things too of course.
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>> >> The 20mph limits are coming from the EU's 30kph limit for this class of
>> road.
>>
>> I confidently expect our prime minister to renegotiate that one before agreeing to allow the
>> EU to proceed. There are a few other things too of course.
>>
In your dreams. :)
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Nothing to do with the EU, councils were imposing them before it was discussed in the EU parliament which then passed no rules on the matter. There will be no EU highway codes, no EU road traffic signs, no road numbering changes.
Sorry. find another scapegoat.
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See?
Zero knows that faffing, wimp-driven, quasi-fascist attempts to reduce all traffic to an expensive timewasting infuriating crawl are moronic and whatever people may think, anti-human.
It's a capital city for God's sake. The faster the better. Damn idiots people are.
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I blame the loony left car haters.
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I'm aware it dates back a bit, but the gist is still correct:
tinyurl.com/3828t2t
Round here these limits are generally causing more problems than they solve, especially on very wide main roads where overtaking is a given, but sometimes leading to more dangerous situations than intended to cure.
Most galling is being occasionally being overtaken by cyclists whilst observing the 20mph limit on what are roads perfectly capable of having been left at a 30mph limit. The Lycra two-wheelers perhaps rightly seem to think it's funny, yet they and pedestrians are supposed to be able to use the road in greater safety........
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>>The Lycra
>> two-wheelers perhaps rightly seem to think it's funny,
>>
It is. I remember overtaking those peculiar pale blue invalid carriages when cycling to school.
They don't seem to be around any more - like lawnmowers with an inverted fibreglass box on top, steered with a tiller.
Not as much fun as holding on to the back of a lorry, which of course were slower then.
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>> It is. I remember overtaking those peculiar pale blue invalid carriages when cycling to school.
The invacar
www.virtualgaz.com/invacarpage.htm
>> They don't seem to be around any more -
Banned!
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>> Most galling is being occasionally being overtaken by cyclists whilst observing the 20mph limit on
>> what are roads perfectly capable of having been left at a 30mph limit. The Lycra
>> two-wheelers perhaps rightly seem to think it's funny, yet they and pedestrians are supposed to
>> be able to use the road in greater safety........
20mph on a bike is like a Cheetah at 70 - only a short term proposition without assistance from wind/gradient.
And a 12kg bike at 20 paired with a 80kg rider has much less damage potential than a 1500kg+ motor vehicle.
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>> And a 12kg bike at 20 paired with a 80kg rider has much less damage
>> potential than a 1500kg+ motor vehicle.
>>
I expect the 100m sprint to be banned in the near future.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156387/Usain-Bolt-sets-crashes-flower-girl-end-100m-run.html
Remember: "The risk of death is approximately four times higher when a pedestrian is hit at 40mph than at 30mph" to quote think.direct.gov.uk/speed.html
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 22:39
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>>Remember: "The risk of death is approximately four times higher when a pedestrian is hit at 40mph than at 30mph" to quote think.direct.gov.uk/speed.html>>
But we are talking from 30mph to 20mph on some major A roads in most instances, and not from 40mph to 30mph.
Driving at 20mph on what was previously key 30mph major arterial routes is both unnecessary and incredibly frustrating as it's almost universally unwarranted.
In fact the constant need to check speed is a bigger danger than driving at the original speed limit.
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>> Have you seen Ratto lately? I worry about him. Silly I know.
>>
Don't worry about Ratto, Lud. He's a regular on Facebook. He's OK.
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>> He's a regular on Facebook. He's OK.
Oh good. Thanks Ted.
Can't bear Facebook myself but no doubt he is happy there. Like a fish in water.
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Surely the emissions are greater from 10 vehicles crawling at 20mph than at 30mph?
I know someone will be able to do the sums for me:)
Pat
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I half heard something on the radio this morning about the footfall of shoppers reducing on the high street and increasing in out of town shopping areas again. It almost seems like it is government traffic management policy to reduce the traffic in built up areas with speed limits and parking restrictions.
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>> It almost seems like it is government traffic management policy to reduce the traffic in built up areas with speed limits and parking restrictions.
>>
And by changing the phasing on traffic lights.
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>> Surely the emissions are greater from 10 vehicles crawling at 20mph than at 30mph?
>>
>> I know someone will be able to do the sums for me:)
The AA have. Hardly an unbiased source, but I don't have the time or expertise to pull it apart. It's a starting point for discussion anyway.
www.theaa.com/public_affairs/news/20mph-roads-emissions.html
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Thanks crankcase, I really thought someone on here would have worked it out by now.
Perhaps their brains have turned to mush:)
Pat
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>> Perhaps their brains have turned to mush:)
Perhaps they have Pat. But does one really need some tinpot set of scientific measurements to understand something so bleeding obvious?
Slow isn't economical. What's economical is smooth progress, as unimpeded as possible, at low throttle openings in the highest viable gear for the conditions (my jalopy will just pull 35 without discomfort in top gear, but there are many cars better and worse for that sort of thing). That keeps the traffic flowing and people reasonably relaxed.
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>> Like a fish in
>> water.
>>
A freshwater fish swimming in rather murky brackish water.
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>> A freshwater fish swimming in rather murky brackish water.
A bit muddy perhaps but hardly brackish, fast-flowing rather. Perhaps a chub or dace in a fastish deep river like the upper Thames.
But we mustn't get carried away by these fishy images. For all we know Rats may see himself as a lobster or conger eel waiting in an underwater cranny to bite your hand off and drown you.
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It all depends of course where the speed limits apply. 20 mph would be inappropriate for recognised through roads in urban areas but if we are talking housing estates, roads near schools and narrow streets with congested parking used as rat runs it seems highly appropriate.
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>> It all depends of course where the speed limits apply. 20 mph would be inappropriate
>> for recognised through roads in urban areas but if we are talking housing estates, roads
>> near schools and narrow streets with congested parking used as rat runs it seems highly
>> appropriate.
Indeed. And no less appropriate if there's a small increase in emissions.
It's probably also true that the streets subject to a 20 limit are not those where 30 could be maintained as the sort of smooth constant speed needed to achieve figures the AA mentions.
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>> It's probably also true that the streets subject to a 20 limit are not those where 30 could be maintained as the sort of smooth constant speed needed to achieve figures the AA mentions.
Never mind the AA or its figures. A lot of the 20 limited streets I know are fit for 40 or 50, let alone 30. 30 is a very low speed for a recent car with good tyres and functioning brakes. The driver simply has to be vigilant and not in a tearing hurry (which calls for a different approach). And surely they are for the most part. Doesn't pay not to be, you get eliminated.
Of course chicanes, bumps and tight bollards are all installed by idiot councils for reasons best known to themselves. Perhaps just to get rid of the millions clawed from taxpayers in various ways. They make everything worse and damage cars and bikes. They are dangerous.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 18 Aug 14 at 17:22
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"The driver simply has to be vigilant and not in a tearing hurry (which calls for a different approach). And surely they are for the most part."
That last sentence is the problem. Unfortunately a significant minority of people drive at currently legal but inappropriate speeds. If it's legal they think its OK.
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>> Unfortunately a significant minority of people drive at currently legal but inappropriate speeds. If it's legal they think its OK.
Can't say I understand that. Seems to me quite unusual for a speed limit to be too fast. Many more are absurdly slow.
Very obviously, temporary traffic conditions often make it necessary to drive at very low speeds or even stop. Even impatient drivers are constrained by traffic conditions. There's nothing to be gained by being demonstrative, chirping tyres, braking hard, having your headlights on full beam, all that, unless you are really in a tearing hurry, and it's a bad idea to be too noticeable even then.
But you can't have been talking about that CGN. You seem to be saying that 30 is too fast for a 30 limit. I don't get it.
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"But you can't have been talking about that CGN. You seem to be saying that 30 is too fast for a 30 limit. I don't get it."
That's my argument in a nutshell. You have proved my point. Thank you.
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>> That's my argument in a nutshell. You have proved my point. Thank you.
Always happy to be of use. But I still don't get it really.
Do you mean that it isn't always possible to maintain 30 all the way through a 30 limit, and by the way there are some pushy rude yobbish drivers about?
Any fool know dem ting man. Cha!
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>>Do you mean that it isn't always possible to maintain 30 all the way through a 30 limit.....? >>
I know roads in my area where that is a perfectly correct observation at least during normal everyday traffic volumes.
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>> A lot of the 20 limited streets I
>> know are fit for 40 or 50, let alone 30. 30 is a very low
>> speed for a recent car with good tyres and functioning brakes.
>>
AC, don't want to be rude, given that we have never met, and that you would almost certainly consider me a mimser if you ever drove with me, but.... you are one of the people who makes me doubt my normal view of speed limits.
I have always believed that speed limits are just that, a limit not a target, not saying that any road whatever the time, whatever the conditions is safe at the limit set on it, there for the guidance of the good guys.
I am known at times to exceed limits when I believe it is safe to do so and with all due care for the excess speed and the risks it brings, and if I get caught for doing it, I will accept it as an observation problem, my fault.
Your comments, including, not uniquely, the one quoted above, make me think that maybe we do need limit signs because the danger from speed, IMHO, is not about the car, it is about the driver and his or her levels of concentration, awareness and judgement.
I believe the cause of accidents is far more often driver error than it is vehicle faults.
Feel a bit guilty posting this now as I will not be on here until tomorrow
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There doesn't seem to me to be anything wrong with anything you say in that post commerdriver. If I understand you correctly we are in close agreement on the realities of the thing, but you think my attitude to speed limits has a frivolous side that some might misunderstand.
I'm sure you aren't a mimser judging by that. And I have a feeling that you might be surprised by my own restraint at the wheel.
Clearly the difference between us is cultural, a matter of habitual discourse, not in our understanding of vehicles, driving and the road.
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I think that this round of speed restrictions has been implemented because having removed acres of road space creating bus lanes, removing lanes for revenue creating parking, or just painting lanes out of existance the powers that be have run out of urban lanes to remove.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 18 Aug 14 at 19:39
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Be extra careful tomorrow:
"OFFICERS in Hampshire will take part in a Europe-wide crackdown on speeding motorists.
The speed enforcement crackdown will take place tomorrow with a particular focus on goods
vehicles of less than 7.5tonnes."
Europe-wide?
tinyurl.com/kv27ztv
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>> Europe-wide?
Well it is linked with Alençon.
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Not been around much lately been busy with jobs etc but I was going to make a thread on this a few days ago but forgot. I am currently not sure where these limits are, but in the past I have used my comment sense and ignored them. I once tried driving down Alaxandra Road South at 20mph which has a 20mph limit and by sticking to the speed limit I nearly caused an accident with inpatient drivers doing dangerous over takes.
I normally tend to do an indicated 25mph in 20 zones but it depends on the road and traffic conditions. Some parts should be 20mph and the most I will do is 20 as anything else is too much but a lot of these roads are wide roads and 30mph is perfectly safe. The problem is with these 20 zones is the idiots who speed down then at 40mph plus will continue to ignore the speed limit.
All the deaths in the Manchester area on the roads in the last few years have involved drivers blatantly speeding or going through red lights etc. No amount of speed limits would have prevented those.
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>> All the deaths in the Manchester area on the roads in the last few years
Apologies for the slight drift - BBC interactive map of all GB road deaths 1999-2010:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15975720
Last edited by: Focusless on Fri 22 Aug 14 at 14:17
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If you take a look at this you realise road death is nothing to worry about in the scheme of things. :-)
www.nhs.uk//Tools/Pages/NHSAtlasofrisk.aspx
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New speed limits. - Alastairw
