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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
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Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 28 Oct 14 at 01:21
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Did anyone else notice what an excellent race that was? Terrific in lots of ways.
The slow bendy circuit and softish tyres seemed to bring out the best in these hybrid jalopies too, aurally at least. Apart from their quite emotional V6 drone the cars were emitting a subtle range of quiet whoops, whines and whistles interspersed with the odd chirp of tyre squeal. I loved it, result and all. No one disgraced himself, even the Mexican loonies putting it in the wall.
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>> Did anyone else notice what an excellent race that was? Terrific in lots of ways.
I enjoyed it too.
Shame McLaren mucked up the tyre choice for Jenson though.
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Sensational.
Not at all surprised Hamilton didn't move out of the way for Rosberg.
Absolutely no need for that instruction - Mercedes will win the constructors, and one of its drivers will win the championship. Expecting a driver who has come from the pit lane and got past the man who started pole to let him back in front was unrealistic to put it mildly.
Pretty obvious what Hamilton thinks - German team, and they really won't be happy if he beats Rosberg this year.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28656050
and has a smile on his face .
£60M to get things back to normal :-)
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So he gets out of one bribery charge by, effectively, bribing the German state. Money, the answer to all problems...
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Yes, it's hilarious in a way. Though both he and the government will be better off with £60m than locking him up for 10 years - likely to be a death sentence at 83.
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So in a nutshell.....
"It would mean that Mr Ecclestone would not be pronounced either guilty or innocent.
Germany's former justice minister, Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger of the Liberal FDP party, criticised use of the loophole, saying it was "not just bad taste - it's really insolent".
She said it allowed rich people to go free, whereas the less well-heeled could face prison."
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>> Money,
>> the answer to all problems...
Didn't that great philosopher of our times, Homer Simpson, say that was alcohol?
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>> Didn't that great philosopher of our times, Homer Simpson, say that was alcohol?
Yes and no: www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVwR0rw5fk
:)
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Well maybe not?
Ecclestone has offer to German bank rejected
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28711162
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Am I right in thinking that an expanded offer of $100 million has been accepted? Asked if he had the bread, Mr E told the judge with admirable brevity: 'Yes'.
'What, cash round the corner right now in a carrier bag, no questions asked, you mean (or words to that effect)?,' the judge persisted.
'That's doable,' Mr E's brief interjected perkily. Almost makes a chap want to be rich.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 8 Aug 14 at 19:21
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Says he was found innocent and only has to pay £60million!
Remind me, what does the Scottish 'not proven' verdict mean?
Better be careful, in case of litigation.
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The crowd could not hide its disappointment at Hamilton's crippling puncture, inflicted by Rosberg who was trying to pass him on the second lap, and they took it out on Rosberg by booing him on the podium.
Rosberg, who damaged his own car and consequently came second, should of course have known better and will be held responsible, nominally anyway, by Mercedes for the loss of a win and a 1-2.
Dan Ricciardo won in style and for him to have won three GPs this year out of 12? starts surpasses the achievements of both the Mercedes boys IMO.
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It was a racing incident, nothing more, nothing less ! Anyway anything that wipes that smug grin off off that jumped up spoiled arrogant little brats face is ok by me. Hamilton is vastly over rated and over hyped and never ever takes responsibility for his mistakes.
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>> It was a racing incident, nothing more, nothing less !
Hamilton claims that Rosberg admits to doing it deliberately:
www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/9438547/Gobsmacked-Lewis-Nico-did-it-on-purpose
www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1/9438493/lauda's-view-unchanged-after-meeting
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 24 Aug 14 at 17:57
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>> >> It was a racing incident, nothing more, nothing less !
>>
>> Hamilton claims that Rosberg admits to doing it deliberately:
"Hamilton claims" oh well that's gospel then !
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>> >> >> It was a racing incident, nothing more, nothing less !
>> >>
>> >> Hamilton claims that Rosberg admits to doing it deliberately:
>>
>> "Hamilton claims" oh well that's gospel then !
So it would appear.
Mercedes say that Hamilton's account of the meeting is "broadly accurate".
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28921431
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>> Anyway anything that wipes that smug grin off off that jumped up spoiled arrogant little brats face is ok by me. Hamilton is vastly over rated and over hyped and never ever takes responsibility for his mistakes.
That's a strong opinion, but very clearly not that of a motor racing enthusiast. Looks like unpleasant cobblers to me.
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>> Anyway anything that wipes that
>> smug grin off off that jumped up spoiled arrogant little brats face is ok by
>> me. Hamilton is vastly over rated and over hyped and never ever takes responsibility for
>> his mistakes.
>>
You left out 'over paid'.
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I'm told that Rosberg is now saying he nicked Hamilton's tyre on purpose. Looking at the clip, it does seem possible, assuming racing drivers really do operate on a much faster plane than most of us.
The Mercedes team and company management, heavy cats to put it mildly, don't seem best pleased. Will Rosberg be docked the price of a supercar out of his next quarter's wages?
A lot of entertaining dicing for points at the end of the race.
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In fairness to Rosberg.. he has in the past complied with team orders.
Hamilton recently chose not to, albeit afterwards the team confirmed they thought he was right.
I do though think that Rosberg was suspect at Monaco.
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Mercedes can at least spend a little less time worrying about how they are going to make sure Rosberg wins the championship.
The 'team orders' that Hamilton questioned were unnecessary and revealed the team's agenda - Mercedes is bound to win the constructors, and one of its drivers will be world champion regardless.
This could get interesting. If I were Hamilton I'd get my retaliation in first, next time.
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Well - I was really pleased to see Bottas on the podium for Williams.
Williams F1 have been in a purple patch for so long now - is this a resurgence - I hope so.
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>> I'm told that Rosberg is now saying he nicked Hamilton's tyre on purpose.
>>
>> The Mercedes team and company management, heavy cats to put it mildly, don't seem best pleased.
>> Will Rosberg be docked the price of a supercar out of his next quarter's wages?
>>
It is now suggested that IF Rosberg has admitted that he deliberated hit Hamilton's tyre then the stewards will be interested in applying a punishment. Could up a range of up to a race ban.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28921431
>> A lot of entertaining dicing for points at the end of the race.
There may be a lot of dicing for points at the last last race is it is for double points.
Maybe an incentive for punting some one off ( a familiar happening ? )
Last edited by: henry k on Sun 24 Aug 14 at 22:03
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Who was Rosberg's former team-mate?
Oh yes...
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Aug 14 at 14:53
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What Rosberg said was that he couldn't back down (from the move) as it would have shown a psychological weakness. So Hamilton didn't either. So they collided. Wolff said saying it was deliberate was not true.
Also if you look at Alonso / Vettel collision on the last lap, the exact same thing happened. Alonso tagged Vettels rear wheel with his front wing. The outcome couldn't have been more different. Alonso's wing was badly damaged and Vettels tyre was ok.
Rosberg could not have known the outcome had he deliberately whacked into Hamilton.
If Rosberg had clipped a Red Bull or Ferrari do you think Mercedes would be ranting about it? I don't.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Aug 14 at 14:53
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>> What Rosberg said was that he couldn't back down (from the move) as it would
>> have shown a psychological weakness. So Hamilton didn't either. So they collided. Wolff said saying
>> it was deliberate was not true.
>>
>> Also if you look at Alonso / Vettel collision on the last lap, the exact
>> same thing happened. Alonso tagged Vettels rear wheel with his front wing. The outcome couldn't
>> have been more different. Alonso's wing was badly damaged and Vettels tyre was ok.
>> Rosberg could not have known the outcome had he deliberately whacked into Hamilton.
>> If Rosberg had clipped a Red Bull or Ferrari do you think Mercedes would be
>> ranting about it? I don't.
It was a racing accident, nothing more nothing less. The fact that Hamilton builds it into a conspiracy and evil intent says more about him than the accident.
Hamilton spent his entire racing career mollycoddled by Mclaren. Outside that family he is feeling very lonely indeed, paranoia almost.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Aug 14 at 14:53
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Funny thing is, the German F1 fans don't seem to get behind Rosberg either and there were some comments about that yesterday, as well as the fact that the Austrian and/or German GPs crowds were disappointing given that a German was leading the championship.
But they never really took to Vettel either, despite his being a 'proper' German, in the same way that they did to Schumacher.
Speaking of Vettel, his credentials are not in doubt but Ricciardo seems to be the one with 'wings'.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Aug 14 at 14:53
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>> Funny thing is, the German F1 fans don't seem to get behind Rosberg either and
>> there were some comments about that yesterday, as well as the fact that the Austrian
>> and/or German GPs crowds were disappointing given that a German was leading the championship.
I understood Austria to be a packed to the rafters sell out.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Aug 14 at 14:53
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Must have been Hockenheim then. I'm not checking the recording.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Aug 14 at 14:53
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Caught the bug again
Took the lad to Knockhill at the weekend (just the Sunday) for the BTCC. What a great day out and at 28 quid (kids go free) fantastic value for money by today’s standards.
I used to follow the Touring Cars back in the late 80’s early 90’s (never actually saw it live though), so was a bit of a shock when they rolled out and started up. The noise is incredible. The pops/bangs (I assume from the now turbo engines and anti lag) gave me and the lad a massive grin.
The racing was as competitive / tight as I remember from years ago and some real Driving skills on show.
Surprised that there are only 2 manufacturer backed teams now (Honda & MG).
Other races included Ginetta GT4 (was OK), Ginetta Junior Cup (the youngsters are very competitive), Porsche Carrera Cup (a bit boring to be honest), Clio Cup (missed most of this) & The highlight of the day after the Touring Cars was the Formula Ford Open Wheel. One of the drivers had what appeared to be a very nasty accident and I feared the worst for him, but (to almost everyone’s surprise, I think), he came back out for the second race.
*I know there is the F1 & General Motorsport thread, but anything not F1 just gets lost in there*
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Always seem to be busy on Knockhill Sunday so missed it again this year.
Its a great day out and from the spectator point of view, I think it is excellent value for money with so much racing over the course of the day.
And of course with the Knockhill layout, as a spectator you can basically walk all round the perimeter of the track, taking in different angles and view points.
How was the traffic getting back out? That is usually the weak point of the operation.
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You're right, traffic getting out was a nightmare and always going to be the case with only one way in/out. We stayed till the very end of the last race and it took us a good hour and three quarters to get out the car park, but atmosphere was relaxed, plus I had the Soarer, always a talking point amongst fellow petrol heads.
Last edited by: ToMoCo on Mon 25 Aug 14 at 14:12
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IMHO, the British Touring Car Championship has always far outscored Formula 1 for excitement and really brave and impressive overtaking driving skills.
Had the opportunity to drive on the Knock Hill course once - a superbly compact and tricky circuit.
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>> IMHO, the British Touring Car Championship has always far outscored Formula 1 for excitement and
>> really brave and impressive overtaking driving skills.
+1
I cannot sit and watch an F1 race from start to finish.. boring.. and I'm no techie.
A sign of dementia I assume? :-)
Last edited by: madf on Mon 25 Aug 14 at 15:15
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I used enjoy BTCC around the time that:
- Alfa 156's with the extended wing were racing (homologated because the bits were in the boot of the equivalent road cars sold)
- Volvo T5 estates were racing - because they could use an estate and get more attention.
- BMW 3 series were seen to have an advantage being RWD so had a sack of sand or something in the boot.... wouldn't that help traction at times?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 25 Aug 14 at 17:20
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>> - Alfa 156's with the extended wing were racing (homologated because the bits were in
>> the boot of the equivalent road cars sold)
No Alfas currently running,
>> - Volvo T5 estates were racing - because they could use an estate and get
>> more attention.
Honda are currently racing Civic Tourers
>> - BMW 3 series were seen to have an advantage being RWD so had a
>> sack of sand or something in the boot.... wouldn't that help traction at times?
The weight penalty was bolted in the centre of the car.
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>> The weight penalty was bolted in the centre of the car.
I didn't think it was literally a bag of sand in the boot - it would move a lot :-) But I did think it was in the boot. I stand corrected.
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I saw someone on Twitter yesterday referring to Formula 1 as "watching Scalextric"
Could see where he was coming from
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Anyone watch the season finale at Brands Hatch?
Cracking first race to see Turkington win the championship. Fantastic driver in what also looked like an unstoppable car, the BMW.
Races 2 & 3 were also very good, Morgan getting his podium in the Mercedes A class race 2 and Clarke (Focus) likewise in race 3.
Really looking forward to next season now.
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>>Anyone watch the season finale at Brands Hatch?
My PVR failed (again - damned Humax)
Surprised Plato didn't get it, I'll have to find out what happened (and get a new PVR).
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>> Surprised Plato didn't get it, I'll have to find out what happened (and get a
>> new PVR).
>>
Plato cheated again, first corner, race 2...punted Turkington off....then eventually got penalised for it...not before time.
He's a damned good quick driver and deserves wins.. yet cannot resist cheating at times. It's a flaw in his personality.
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snipquote again!!
>> He's a damned good quick driver and deserves wins.. yet cannot resist cheating at times.
>> It's a flaw in his personality.
Its because he has spent too much time being barged off by Mat Neil. That man could write a library on cheating.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 22 Oct 14 at 10:14
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>> referring to Formula 1 as "watching Scalextric"
Only for the blind and ignorant. Perhaps Nascar or banger racing would be more their thing. Tchah!
Monza was an absolutely terrific race won by the fastest driver in the fastest car, who recovered from a poor start. He will have to watch his mirrors for Daniel Ricciardo though. Big talent there. Nice to see Massa smiling on the podium too. A lot of close exciting dicing down there in the midfield.
Good old war-horses Alonso and Button kept the rest of the field honest. When is my man Kobayashi going to get a car worthy of him?
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Not sure why but it is really nice to see the Martini racing colours back this season. Perhaps it harks back to those schoolboy posters on the bedroom wall in the 70s :-)
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>> Not sure why but it is really nice to see the Martini racing colours back
>> this season. Perhaps it harks back to those schoolboy posters on the bedroom wall in
>> the 70s :-)
Yeah burt they should be on a Lancia rally car.
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I remember the late Henri Toivonen driving a Lancia Delta in Martini colours on an RAC rally in the mid 80s? One of the last rallies I followed with my chums as work & family commitments began to take over. Probably have slides in a box some where, on my 'to do & sort' list when I retire!
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Good race, and Hamilton worked for that 'mistake' by Rosberg. I said as much when his team told him "just stay 2-3 seconds behind and save it for the end of the race" - which would have put no pressure on Rosberg at all.
Instead, Hamilton got on his tail and got a result.
I still think they are fairly evenly matched, though Hamilton is a better racer. But reliability will decide the championship, along with the stupidly random factor of double points on the last race.
Eddie says he would have Ricciardo and Bottas in his fantasy team. I agree.
Good to see Massa up there.
Button in interview was kind to Perez, who seems to have matured somewhat. He was unwilling to be as complimentary about Magnussen.
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Mercedes boss believes F1 radio ban as 'unclear'
...but they would be forbidden to give them any advice about how to gain time by altering their approach to certain corners, warn them about fuel consumption or brake wear, or give instructions about car or engine settings.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/29172370
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Former F1 driver Heidfeld was attempting to take the lead when he clipped the son of Formula 1 legend Alain Prost, Nicolas, and smashed heavily into the barrier before walking away unharmed to confront the French driver.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/motorsport/29171184
The Formula E cars sound like Scalextric cars. I've just about got used to the 2014 F1 car engine sounds, but I don't think I could get used to these.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 13 Sep 14 at 20:38
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>> Former F1 driver Heidfeld was attempting to take the lead when he clipped the son
>> of Formula 1 legend Alain Prost, Nicolas, and smashed heavily into the barrier before walking
>> away unharmed to confront the French driver.
Shocking.
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>> >> Former F1 driver Heidfeld was attempting to take the lead when he clipped the son of Formula 1 legend Alain Prost, Nicolas,
>>
Not what I was on the replay.
Post appeared not to see Heildfeld and drove into him.
The stewards have given Prost a ten place grid penalty.
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Question is will the Sun resist:
Heidfeld tasered at inaugral E Prix
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>> The Formula E cars sound like Scalextric cars.
Yes, they do. I don't mind that so much. What seems a bit crap is changing cars. Top driver in the fifties would sometimes take over another driver's car if his own car broke, but he was taking over a car that had run the race. Having a car that can't complete a race seems naff somehow. It would be better if they trolleyed in a new battery pack, like refuelling. But the cars aren't designed for that. Batteries are probably all over the thing, in the frame.
The other thing I noticed, in that crash, was that the front suspension of these cars seems very fragile compared to that of last year's mumbling monsters or the screamers of a couple of years ago. They can bump wheels and get away with it.
Hope they get it together. So far so not perfect by any means.
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Truthfully, no one is going to take the series seriously until a car can do a race. All the current Formula does is underline the fact that battery life is the limiting factor, as it was in the dawn of motoring. (There are a few Brighton eligible electric cars, ie pre 1905).
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Sun 14 Sep 14 at 09:21
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>> Truthfully, no one is going to take the series seriously until a car can do a race.
>>
From what I read cars seemed to go slower near to the end for fear of running out of juice.
I guess this might improve as they learn about use of available power in race conditions.
I have an image of several cars creeping over the line and the reception that will get.
Victory laps should be a thing of the past " No juice left to do it"
A " safe crash" followed by a " what were you doing ?" crash hats at dawn meeting did wonders for the PR machine. Oh and Papa Prost voicing re my lad was robbed of a win.
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I was quite interested in learning about this formula, until I found out it was as much about the hype - it's more like a pop concert and fans can tweet so their favourite drivers receive a power boost.
Pah! as Lud would say.
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>> fans can tweet so their favourite drivers receive a power boost.
Is that really true?
I may lose my soft spot for Bernie Ecclestone if it is. Not everyone shares my taste for cynicism. But even I think there are limits.
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>> fans can tweet so their favourite drivers receive a power boost.
>>
>> Is that really true?
>>
Indeed.
voltmagonline.com/formula-e-to-allow-viewers-to-vote-which-drivers-get-50bhp-advantage-through-twitter/
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Never heard of Formula E until I read it here. Do drivers progress to Formula Bah Gum?
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>> Is that really true?
>> I may lose my soft spot for Bernie Ecclestone if it is
Guh... nothing to do with Bernie. Some other chancer. F1 is still with us! That's a relief.
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>> A " safe crash" followed by a " what were you doing ?" crash hats
>> at dawn meeting did wonders for the PR machine.
Indeed - got the last item slot on the main ITV evening news. Might have suspected it had been staged if it wasn't for the way the car tumbled through the air so spectacularly; didn't look very 'safe'!
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>> Might have suspected it had been staged if it wasn't for the way the car tumbled through
>> the air so spectacularly; didn't look very 'safe'!
>>
Much relief that the vast heavy battery did not ignite or the driver got tazered by the electrics.
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BTW season finale is in London, 27 June next year.
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I wish Bianchi well, it looks as though he went under the rear of the crane, not good.
I think some of the photos of the JCB type device removing the wreckage of Sutil's car show that it has a flat offside rear tyre, the side away from the track. Could this be the reason for the delay in removing the initial wreckage? These photos were before the second incident.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 5 Oct 14 at 15:32
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I'm surprised it doesn't seem to have been caught on camera as all sections of the circuit have permanent coverage at most venues.
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I saw it on the TV coverage, with marshals looking at it and pointing to it. The stills (Daily Mail) show the other rear wheel tilted in at the top as if the axle has dropped on the off side.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 5 Oct 14 at 15:54
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It seems that Bianchi crashed the next lap after Sutil, so thats very shortly after the crane rocked up. Bianchi then ended up wedged under part of the crane, so they couldn't move it without causing him more damage.
Seen pictures of the wreckage of his car, looks nasty. The tub is in tact, the wheels are off but the tub seems depressed around the drivers shoulders.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 5 Oct 14 at 15:55
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The yellow flags were out.
Does that not serve as a warning to drivers of problems ahead?
I just wonder if the unfortunate Bianchi could have gone a little more slowly into that corner?
Perhaps he was distracted by the recovery operation?
Anyway, the outcome was catastrophic for him, poor chap.
Let's hope he recovers OK.
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Of course I hope he recovers.
Conditions were deteriorating, track was getting wetter, light was going, and it quite possible he was going slower than the last time he went through that corner; just that it wasn't slow enough. To be fast in the wet without incident is not easy, even the best will have incidents.
There is a huge discussion on this on Pistonheads, with some saying there should be crash protection on recovery vehicles and other things. Although I don't like many uses of safety cars, the first car off there should have triggered an immediate safety car, but whether that would have been enough to prevent the subsequent accident I don't know.
The decision to stop racing is a tricky one, I don't envy them one bit.
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Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
We have to accept that motor racing is potentially very dangerous and nobody can make the perfect decision every time. I hope this doesn't turn into a blame-game ballyhoo whatever the outcome regarding Bianchi.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Sun 5 Oct 14 at 20:59
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The commercial pressure to proceed with the race seems to have carried the day. At the start, one of the commentators mentioned the 'loss of face' problem that would also have arisen if the race had been cancelled, but that must seem rather trivial now.
Fingers crossed for Bianchi.
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I thought there was a rule that if the medical helicopter coudn't fly they would not race, i understand Bianchi was transferred to hospital in an ambulance, taking 40 minutes.
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>> I thought there was a rule that if the medical helicopter coudn't fly they would
>> not race, i understand Bianchi was transferred to hospital in an ambulance, taking 40 minutes.
>>
Press saying that there was no landing place for the helicopter at that specific hospital.
If so it seems like lazy preparation / planning etc.
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SQ
>> Press saying that there was no landing place for the helicopter at that specific hospital.
>> If so it seems like lazy preparation / planning etc.
>>
Press also saying that chopper couldn't fly because of weather. I can't recall any race being stopped, delayed, or cancelled because there was no medevac chopper, so I don't know if that rule applies.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 6 Oct 14 at 10:09
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>> Press also saying that chopper couldn't fly because of weather.
>>
I also read that that chopper took off shortly afterwards for another destination.
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>> >> Press also saying that chopper couldn't fly because of weather.
>> >>
>> I also read that that chopper took off shortly afterwards for another destination.
Not necessarily a contradiction between those situations. Differences of visibility, cloud base and terrain can make one destination attainable while that in opposite direction is not
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>> Press saying that there was no landing place for the helicopter at that specific hospital.
If that was the case, then the race shouldn't have gone ahead according to the F1 website.
www.formula1.com/inside_f1/safety/medical_and_track_safety/7439.html
If conditions are such that a helicopter could not take off from the circuit or land at the hospital, due to fog for example, then the race cannot go ahead.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 6 Oct 14 at 10:19
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>> If conditions are such that a helicopter could not take off from the circuit or
>> land at the hospital, due to fog for example, then the race cannot go ahead.
>>
It might be that 'a' hospital was attainable, but the hospital they specifically wanted was not.
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>> I wish Bianchi well, it looks as though he went under the rear of the
>> crane, not good.
>>
>> I think some of the photos of the JCB type device removing the wreckage of
>> Sutil's car show that it has a flat offside rear tyre, the side away from
>> the track. Could this be the reason for the delay in removing the initial wreckage?
>> These photos were before the second incident.
>>
It seems that I was mistaken, I have just seen a video of the crash and it shows the crane moving with Sutils car suspended and all four tyres intact immediately before the impact. It also shows green flags being waved. The video is in the Daily Express.
I think the original video I commented on was after Bianchis impact.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 7 Oct 14 at 19:56
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>> It seems that I was mistaken, I have just seen a video of the crash
>> and it shows the crane moving with Sutils car suspended and all four tyres intact
>> immediately before the impact. It also shows green flags being waved. The video is in
>> the Daily Express.
I have seen that clip too, he looks to be traveling very fast indeed, and the force of his car going under lifts the tractor in the air.
The green flag is from the marshals post beyond the crash site, indicating the track after the incident is clear, the section leading up to the crash has waved yellows.
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Reports are of a diffuse axonal injury:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_axonal_injury
Saw a few of these in my time dealing with Court of Protection cases; not good for his future prospects.
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>> A poignant photo.
>>
>> tinyurl.com/kme8wwq
>>
You are not wrong Henry
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Blimey. The speed is far more apparent there than in the broadcast long-lens shots we're so used to.
Fingers still crossed, although the prognosis does not sound good. I wonder how visible the flags were to the drivers in those conditions?
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>> I wonder how visible the flags were to the drivers in those conditions
I would expect them to be extremely visible to *those* drivers. To us more normal mortals, perhaps not, but a racing drive in a race is phenomenally attentive to pretty much everything which might impact him.
I expect that knowing exactly when you can stick your foot down after a hazard is key to winning many a race.
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>> Fingers still crossed, although the prognosis does not sound good. I wonder how visible the
>> flags were to the drivers in those conditions?
and of course the brightly lit, flashing trackside signals.
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OK! I was just trying to discover why he was travelling so quickly. Full-face helmets are not the easiest things to see out of in heavy rain, even before they mist up.
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As I understand it, the gravel trap etc does virtually nothing in the wet, so any car that comes off the track just skates over it. In the dry, gravel does slow a car down.
I don't think a car recovery is necessarily a safety car issue, but in the wet - probably. I'd not be surprised if Charlie Whiting or his folk were even considering doing so, but the two incidents were pretty close in time.
Although the Suzuka circuit is not equipped with big run off areas, to say F1 races should no longer be held there leads to saying the same thing about Monaco, and the Singapore Grands Prix. Except probably it won't until some has a big accident there.
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>> Although the Suzuka circuit is not equipped with big run off areas, to say F1
>> races should no longer be held there leads to saying the same thing about Monaco,
>> and the Singapore Grands Prix. Except probably it won't until some has a big accident
>> there.
Run off areas and walls are not the issue, the cars are built to withstand impacts into the same. The issue here was an unprotected tractor crane that the car ran under. This type of accident has no protection or mitigation for the drivers head.
Now you could have specially devised recovery equipment that prevents "run unders" - the same as some lorry tailgates.
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>> Now you could have specially devised recovery equipment that prevents "run unders"
>>- the same as some lorry tailgates.
>>
I suspect this will be adopted in some form.
At present it seems like they source the recovery equipment from any building site or farmer Giles.
In the case of this freak accident, if the car had not hit the recovery vehicle then where would it have finished up etc.
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>> In the case of this freak accident, if the car had not hit the recovery
>> vehicle then where would it have finished up etc.
>>
I think it would have gone into the surrounding tyre walls, the track access was offset so that from the direction of travel on the track there was no gap in the tyre wall.
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>> I suspect this will be adopted in some form.
But they would still have to leave room for ground clearance. Otherwise it would be useless as a rescue vehicle. Whatever they implement would have to be deformable rather than solid so as to slow down whatever hits it instead of making it come to an abrupt stop.
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F1 cars are by nature wedge shaped with a very low nose virtually touching the road.
If they crash at high speed into a thing like that crane they are going to plunge under it jerking it into the air heavy though it is. One could see that in one of the video clips.
Any big heavy thing with wheels in that sort of place is a hazard. The best safety arrangement would be deflectors to send the car at an angle into the tyre wall, but they couldn't be moved into place in time.
Was there gravel or sand on the bend where both cars lost it in fairly rapid succession?
I'd favour lower speeds, less aerodynamics and more suspension. At least I think I would, until I remember those incredible slingshot turbo thingies Mansell used to drive, before they were banned as too dangerous.
moved to correct place to keep it within the accident discussion
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 9 Oct 14 at 01:41
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Hungary - Armel Coussine
