The sort of headline this forum needs
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10417040.stm
I liked the statement
"According to her website, Mistress Lucrezia offers clients "bondage, humiliation, torture, education and cross-dressing".
|
|
and not even a mention of an apple
|
|
That is exactly why I keep away from those places!
|
Perhaps not the victim we'd thought it would be?
Gotta be careful with litigation!
|
Yes, I had a certain expectation too. Shame for his family. Bet they never knew until today :-(
JH
|
|
at least he cant plead not guilty like lord brownshirt.
|
|
Guilty of what? I don't think there's any suggestion of guilt is there? Just a sadly premature death of a man in circumstances which will embarrass his family, for whom I feel very sorry.
|
I was refering, in a jocular manner, to Max Mosely.
But back to the guy in question.
Its not up to us to feel sorry for his family. Its entirely his fault and he is responsible. He should have thought of, and be prepared for, the consequences of getting found out and what it would do to his family, albeit in this case a rather extreme outcome of his action.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 25 Jun 10 at 22:09
|
|
i will feel sorry for them if i like thanks very much. we all have our moments and we should not limit our sympathy for others
|
|
Dont be so pious, you dont even know them.
|
|
i dont know them but i dont think you need to know people in order to feel sorry for them. I dont think i'm pious either, so lets just disagree on this one.
|
|
What grubby, sordid, worthless lives some people lead.
|
IIRC Max M effectively did plead guilty - he just wanted a trial in camera!!
So far as this guy's concerned I also feel sorry for the family but 'died of natural causes in his sleep!!!! WTF.
Actually, I suppose if he had a heart attack while doped out on entronox that may not actually be untrue!!
|
Mosley's case was about privacy, and one alleged inaccuracy in the News of the World's story.
He won a civil case in the High Court against the newspaper:
"Mr Justice Eady said he could expect privacy for consensual "sexual activities (albeit unconventional)".
"Mr Mosley admitted a sado-masochistic sex session with five prostitutes, but denied that it had a Nazi theme."
Extracted from: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7523034.stm
|
Oh yes, thats right. Recreating a concentration camp scene had no Nazi overtones, I forgot that. Glad he admitted he was a pervert tho.
|
>> What grubby, sordid, worthless lives some people lead.
>>
Well, I won't comment on the grubbiness etc of the hobby, but if anything it seems to be a pastime of high achievers - Lord Brownshirt being an example, and in the general area the Profumo scandal, an MP whose name I don't recall who sadly died during auto-eroticism, and another one who was indiscreet on Clapham Common.
Quite possibly an unscientific sample, as the well-known and vicars are of course more newsworthy.
|
...What grubby, sordid, worthless lives some people lead...
The comment was aimed equally at the service providers and the end users.
|
|
Hey, its free market. It's the ultimate expression of capitalism.
|
|
At first glance she looked the part, but killing your clients is a USP you could kinda do without. Its a poor business plan.
|
I think the business plan OK . The franchise is tried and trusted throughout the world. Poor local management though. Need to go easy on the cling film in future.
|
"In a statement released on their behalf, Mr Mortimer's family said it was "understood that Robin died of natural causes in his sleep at a hotel"."
Maybe he was a Sunderland fan and was found wearing the team's shirt so they came up with this sadomasochistic story to save the family embarrassment.
|
...Mr Mortimer's family said it was "understood that Robin died of natural causes in his sleep at a hotel"."...
I don't know what they are supposed to say, but that seems plain dishonest, which is never a good course to follow.
Probably best to say nothing at all, unless they are genuinely trying to make us believe he had nothing more than a steak and a glass of riesling on room service.
|
Is it possible they issued that statement before they learned the (likely) facts?
Or perhaps they were just too upset to be thinking logically.
|
Why should this man's poor family display 'honesty' in remarks for the consumption of the heartless, prurient hordes? 'No comment' would have been worse. They did what they could to save face, and it's moronic to criticise them for it.
|
...and it's moronic to criticise them for it...
No, it's moronic to attempt to deny the obvious.
No comment would have been better, it would have been taken as maintaining a dignified silence.
And by the way, if you want to call people names, kindly find somewhere else to do it.
|
>> And by the way, if you want to call people names, kindly find somewhere else
>> to do it.
Oh I dont know, I feel quite proud to have been accepted into the heartless, prurient horde.
|
...I feel quite proud to have been accepted into the heartless, prurient horde...
Valid point.
How was the play?
|
>> How was the play?
Very good indeed thank you, the lighting against the setting sun and darkening skies played against the backdrop of Ludlow castle was hugely atmospheric. Excelent production, and Iago is a real nasty sneaky git, superbly well played in this case.
A good morning mooching around Ludlow, coffee in the courtyard of the Feathers, then a nice pootle x country back home.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 27 Jun 10 at 18:11
|
...Excelent production...
Good - a professional cast can usually be relied on to give a top-notch performance.
I mention this on a 'football day' because I remember a Spurs chairman years ago justifying the latest price increase at White Hart Lane by comparing it to a night at a West End theatre.
The difference to me is that a football team will often give a poor performance, whereas you are virtually guaranteed top quality entertainment in the West End.
|
...A good morning mooching around Ludlow, coffee in the courtyard of the Feathers...
Ludlow acquired the reputation of being something of a 'gastro town' a few years ago.
Not sure if one or two of the top restaurants are now shut, as is the way of these things.
|
A family that could think rationally in the aftermath of their loved ones untimely demise would be a cold hearted clan indeed.
The public's addictive consumption of tittle tattle especially should it involve a bit of hanky panky probably missing from their own lives never ceases to amaze.
|
...a bit of hanky panky probably missing from their own lives...
There are some forms of hanky panky which I'm glad are missing from my life.
To me, oranges are for eating and clingfilm is for wrapping your sandwiches.
|
>> They did what they could to save face, and it's moronic to criticise them for it.
>>
Ballcocks ! It's moronic to defend the indefensible. If you do something wrong you hold your hand up and admit it (unless you are an MP).
|
Yeah, but gmac, and ifithelps come to that, the man's unfortunate relations have nothing to admit. Were they even aware of his private amusements? How do you know that some policeman or hotelier, kinder than you, didn't give them the sanitised version to save their feelings?
This sort of thing is not really a matter of public interest, and adults on the whole don't especially like wallowing in the details. Max Mosley isn't, from what I know of him, one of my favourite human beings. But he was right about this issue. So is gordonbennet, and so am I.
Sexual perversion seems a bit smelly to most people. But the heartless prurient hordes seem even smellier to me. So you can stick that up your England shirts.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 27 Jun 10 at 21:31
|
|
Of course its a matter of public interest, and anyone who indulges in such matters knows it is. It is absolutely nudge nudge, wink wink, snigger snigger, public domain material. Even more so when its a public figure in a position of power.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 27 Jun 10 at 21:32
|
Nudge nudge, wink wink, snigger snigger is indeed about the size of it. Public figure in a position of power? Do me a favour. He's the boss of a small racing team, not the Viceroy of India.
Tchah!
|
|
He died in an unusual and perverse manner. Its news, end of.
|
|
It's a small inside page story. Only a comic for post-adolescent half-wits would splash it.
|
|
Oh wow, I am doing well today. Thats two clubs I have been accepted into.
|
|
Heh heh... I'm sure you're a founder member of both zeddo...
|
...Only a comic for post-adolescent half-wits would splash it....
Funny how the two most successful daily newspapers get so much stick from all the armchair editors on here.
|
>> Yeah, but gmac, and ifithelps come to that, the man's unfortunate relations have nothing to
>> admit. Were they even aware of his private amusements? How do you know that some
>> policeman or hotelier, kinder than you, didn't give them the sanitised version to save their
>> feelings?
>>
But why would you want to sanitise things. What happened to the Truth ?
If he died in a sex club why not report it as such, why try to deceive with some other story ?
|
>>
But why would you want to sanitise things. What happened to the Truth ?
If he died in a sex club why not report it as such, why try to deceive with some other story ?
If you were responsible for breaking the news to the guy's widow, or if you were the widow, you might easily want to sanitise the story.
The Truth with a capital T isn't especially important here. If a journalist with some sense of decency was reporting this story, he/she would do it in the appropriate manner. You can tell the truth, the truth newspaper readers are entitled to, without dwelling on the orange and clingfilm or indeed mentioning them at all. You can give the outlines of the story without giving people like you and Zero details to slobber over, and ifithelps to sound supercilious about.
ifithelps thinks it curious that the two most successful tabloids are comics for prurient halfwits. It doesn't surprise me in the least. There are more of them than us.
|
I'm not slobbering over anything.
All I ask is the facts get reported. Is that too much to expect ? Maybe it is. If the facts have to be distorted the perhaps it should not be in the public domain but then you are in the censorship domain.
|
I don't really think you and Zero slobber gmac. But some 'facts' are more important than others. Club frequented by sadomasochists, found dead in shower. What more do people need to know, or want to if they are grown up? It's only censorship when it concerns a matter of genuine important public interest. This is just reeking gutter trivia. But there are people still living, and perhaps in some distress, who can be smeared by it all and further distressed.
Even the broadsheets including my own addiction the terrorflag are getting more and more inclined to publish these excremental details.
|
>> I don't really think you and Zero slobber gmac. But some 'facts' are more important
>> than others. Club frequented by sadomasochists, found dead in shower. What more do people need
>> to know, or want to if they are grown up?
That is clearly insufficient detail. Found dead in shower could be natural causes, or an accident (slipped on soap for example). Us of the slobbering classes instantly want to know
a: if this is the case, and b:if not - need all the gory detail. The more lurid the better,
>>It's only censorship when it
>> concerns a matter of genuine important public interest. This is just reeking gutter trivia.
This is of interest to me and other members of the slobbering classes.
>>But
>> there are people still living, and perhaps in some distress, who can be smeared by
>> it all and further distressed.
A smear is usually an attempt to besmirch someones name or reputation for gain or other reason. The family have to suffer the consequences of his rather strange prediliction, why should we cover up something like this just to protect their rather false image of him. They need to know the truth.
|
>> The family have to suffer the consequences of his rather strange prediliction,
The whole point Zero is that they are already suffering those consequences. And it's quite likely that they will know everything, if not already then sooner rather than later. They may be tough cookies who don't give much of a damn, but most families aren't really like that.
You may be able to see why the curiosity, to give it a polite name, of the drooling, cross-eyed, nothing-better-to-think-about classes should be satisfied immediately, but you must forgive me if I think that really doesn't matter at all. Let the damn carphounds watch big brother, it's just as meaningless and distasteful but all the victims are up for it.
In fact I think it's important to veil this sort of thing by using coded terms (at one time the press used to describe the Kray twins as 'well-known in sporting circles'. You could see something was meant by it but you had to think a bit to work out what) to give the slobbering droolers a bit of mental exercise. If, that is, it is considered worth reporting at all.
|
>>I'm not slobbering over anything.
>>All I ask is the facts get reported. Is that too much to expect ?
Yes. I don't need the facts of your sex life reported whether you died at the scene or not, and it's already been shown, correctly in my opinion, that even in the case of a much more public figure like Max, it is not justified on the grounds of public interest.
Of course, the dead can't sue.
The immoral parties here are those who print these stories of what should be private lives, and worse, deaths. They are despicable.
|
>> ifithelps thinks it curious that the two most successful tabloids are comics for prurient halfwits.
>> It doesn't surprise me in the least. There are more of them than us.
No your just a closet PH. You need to come out AC!
|
>> a closet PH. You need to come out
Heh heh... In conversation once I remarked to a Trinidadian friend that well-brought-up British men before the zip era used to murmur, when a friend came back from the pub loo with a gaping fly or even attributes on display, 'Er... you've got a medal showing.'
He chortled a bit and replied, We say: 'The rum-shop open!'
|
|
You've got egg on your cheek!!
|
Sadomasochistic sex clubs aren't my cup of tea but what a way to go.
Could have been worse - he could have croaked while watching Othello
|
Thats a classy way to go.
Talking of class, what guady tasteless cowboy boots you wearing today?
|
It's baking
I'm wearing flipflops and a banana hammock
|
...could have gone watching Othello...
Or sitting at a computer dreaming of being a cowboy.
Last edited by: ifithelps on Mon 28 Jun 10 at 11:01
|
"Or sitting at a computer dreaming of being a cowboy"
That's how I'll be exiting...
|
"assault and battery leading to death"
Electrocution as well - blimey!
|
No no, he died in bed - natural causes. We musnt speculate, nor dare we make jokes.
Its a shocking state of affairs.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 28 Jun 10 at 14:52
|
>> We musnt speculate, nor dare we make jokes.
You can do it as much as you like Zero, but not, at this stage anyway, in the public prints.
Satirical comment that deflates pomposity or smugness, or high-level gross public hypocrisy, in places where these things matter - government, the law, international relations - is a good thing usually. Intrusive speculation about people's private lives, or unkind comment on the appearance of women in public life, are distasteful unless one is very insensitive and harsh.
Satire to be any good has to push the boundaries. Peter Cook could be pretty nasty sometimes, but on the whole he got away with it because he was on the side of the angels.
But I can't help taking against modern vulgarians like Jo Brand, Jonathan Ross and his medallion-wearing catamite friend, that ginger Scotch git and a host of others who think it's perfectly all right to indulge in very public cruelty against all sorts of people some of whom really cannot answer back.
It's difficult on the edge. Sometimes one can get away with stuff one shouldn't get away with. But just throwing decency to the winds isn't usually that funny or that interesting. Of course such people always have picked audiences of braying idiots to encourage them though.
|
"Of course such people always have picked audiences of braying idiots to encourage them though"
Or, to put it another way, nobody ever lost money underestimating public taste.
|
and I thought I was in a minority of one in disliking Jo Brand. In may case it's because I feel that she is vicious, not funny, but yes, she is vulgar too. And rapidly becoming the face of the BBC. She's popping up everywhere :-(
JH
|
|
she is exceeding ugly. Thats good enough reason not to like her.
|
I was being tactful :-)
JH
|
|
She looks like what my mother-in-law looked like when she was younger, thinner and prettier.
|
You're doomed. You know what they say about daughters and mothers in law.
Still, your eyesight may have gone by then, if you're lucky.
JH
|
>> she is exceeding ugly. Thats good enough reason not to like her.
The best reason is that she is just not funny, and no new material in 20 years. How long is she going to going on about:
1) Being fat and ugly
2) Periods
3) Husbands
At least in the 80s she had the uniqueness factor, now I switch off QI whenever she is on, because it is like I am watching a re-run of some show from 1987.
For some reason I have cut down my TV viewing substantially over the past couple of years, so at least I haven't seen what seems to be a renewed rise to prominence on other shows.
|
liked joe bland till she used her non existant power to have maggies daughter sacked from the one show
i now cant stand adrian chivers of the jelly mould
joe bland the ex nurse
and what happened to thet other decent guy who was sacked from the one show? the one who wore a turbo,great funny guy he was too
|
You're quite right about JB and the invisible-man-fellating Brummie-cum-Croatian bewildered goldfish (now apparently a football pundit, but too sulky-looking to be listened to) bb. Damn snivelling sneaks. Who did they think they were sucking up to?
Carol Thatcher seems a quite reasonable person with liberal attitudes, careless remarks in private notwithstanding. I often make those myself and sometimes get into trouble for them too.
|
>> Carol Thatcher seems a quite reasonable person with liberal attitudes, careless remarks in private notwithstanding.
She is the female version of a bufoon.
|
|
Nothing wrong with buffoons Zero. They are often good fun. Surely you of all people must realise that.
|
|
ooh i soo would love to give that post a thumbs up AC ;-)
|
|
What's a 'qualified user' then?
|
>> exceeding ugly. Thats good enough reason not to like her.
Heh heh... I think you can get away with that Zero. But she uses it herself so she's shot your fox.
|
>> Heh heh... I think you can get away with that Zero. But she uses it
>> herself so she's shot your fox.
she has no other talent, so she has to use it.
|
I'm trying to work up a ballad of Zero and BBD in country and western style. But my brain keeps filling with plangent steel and Hawaiian guitar riffs and mere phrases...
'Thase boots are made for talkin not for walkin...' etc... no progress alas. But inspiration may strike later. So be afraid.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 28 Jun 10 at 17:07
|
"But inspiration may strike later"
Lee Hazlewood and Nancy Sinatra - listen to Summer Wine. She gets him drunk and steals his silver spurs.
|
Funny, isn't it, how people have such major hang ups about sex? Rub A and stick B in C and you're fine, Slap A and stick B in D and you are lower than any beast.
No need for the papers to report any details, there is no public service here, no attempt to uphold journalist integrity, just the need to make money.
It's a shame for the family, and regardless of what the guy did and what he knew might happen, the papers are to blame for splashing it about.
They can use the "rapist excuse" if they like (i.e. it's her fault because she was, wearing a short skirt, walking home on her own, drunk blah blah - she should have known she'd get raped). Also used by Bentley thieves - "he should have known I'd hold a knife to his throat if he drove around in a Bentley"
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Mon 28 Jun 10 at 14:56
|
First and foremost this was a private individual, engaging in consensual activities with another adult, and as such is no-one's business but those involved.
Presumambly he died with a smile on his face which is something we all aspire to.
It's sad for his family to have lost him like that and I feel so sorry for them, but it's even sadder to find it trawled through the papers the way it has been.
Is the cause of the over reaction, the inabilty of the majority to understand the differing tastes of a minority?
Shouldn't he be applauded for managing to pursue his preferences in privacy, and until his untimely death, without hurting his family?
Let's face it, if it wasn't for the fact that he died in handcuffs, without the presence of a Policeman, we wouldn't be having this discussion now.
Pat
|
|
Quite. Our resident wind up merchant has had a good outing ;-)
|
>> Quite. Our resident wind up merchant has had a good outing ;-)
Excuse me! I am not the only one!
|
...Mistress Lucrezia offers clients "bondage, humiliation, torture"...
This is a long way from seaside postcard-style rumpy pumpy.
If this guy was tortured to death, it is unlikely he died with a smile on his face.
Two people have been arrested.
A crime may - or may not - have been carried out.
Suicide is no longer an offence in this country, but some laws do exist to protect the individual from himself.
Belgian law will apply, but I doubt torture is any more legal over there than it is here.
|
>> ...Mistress Lucrezia offers clients "bondage, humiliation, torture"...
and education, don't forget the education.
|
|
Probably his heart just gave out when he got the bill.
|
|
i wonder how big the bill actually was and whether they posted it to him through the letterbox
|
I guess his executor will have to deal with it, though they may waive it as a goodwill gesture.
Did you hear about the sado masochist who enjoyed a cold shower each morning so he had a hot one instead?
JH
|
>> enjoyed a cold shower each morning so he had a hot one instead?
Masochist (pleadingly): Hit me! Hit me!
Sadist (after a long pause): No.
|
Most people find activities of this type inherently ludicrous and funny as exemplified by the jokes above and that is why it is such a good story. Its got little to do with prurience or criticism of others private lives, at the end of the day its just plain funny.
|
...at the end of the day its just plain funny...
Even I struggle to find the humour in someone being tortured to death.
But hey, don't think about this too deeply and it's all: 'Nudge-nudge, wink-wink. Does she? I bet she does, I bet she does.'
Can you still get Breakaway bars?
|
The scenario isn't in the least funny, but witnessing the schoolboy outraged sniggering and finger pointing is hilarious.
The chap enjoyed something different to the norm, i daresay many of us do that have got past the Victorian influence, for goodness sake get a life people.
|
A middle wealthy aged man into masochism decides that he can now afford the best. He seeks out a club in a small Belgian village noted for such activities seeking out a woman who offers clients "bondage, humiliation, torture, education and cross-dressing". She is noted as a leading exponent in these arts. Unfortunately it all goes horribly wrong and the man dies in rather embarrassing manner. The owners of the club panic and do their best to make it look like natural causes.
If that's not a plot for a black farce I don't know what is.
|
|
theres a shakespear play in there somewhere.
|
>> theres a shakespear play in there somewhere.
>>
The taming of the screw ?
|
|
well its not Romeo and Juliet that for sure......
|
|
and its not "alls well that ends well"
|
|
Much Ado About Nothing according to some... :-)
|
Racing boss found dead at sadomasochistic sex club - Bellboy
