Does anyone on here have any experience of hybrids?
Our experience with the diesel Accord has been uninvolving after the dear old Prelude VTEC and it's too big really for what we need these days.
I am tempted to try a Jazz hybrid, or maybe a 4-door Civic hybrid because it's different but I really don't know what to expect. I couldn't bear to be seen in a Pious. At least with the Honda there's a chance people wouldn't realise what it was.
A couple of years ago my friend turned in his XJ8 daily driver for a new Civic hybrid and, for some time, seemed really pleased with it. He did return trips from France to Finland and Gibraltar and reckoned it was the bees knees. Then, not long ago, he suddenly turned it in against one of those Mercs that looks the same from both ends and he's never wanted to talk about why.
I don't want to turn up at the Honda dealer without knowing a bit about the hybrid experience so any help would be welcome.
I'm not hyper bothered about green issues by the way. I will still be pottering about with the XJS...
|
No experience personally, but haven't you missed the Honda Insight off your list?
I've got one in mind to try when Mrs A's Golf dies.
|
Double take there. Missed the " 's Golf ".
What I can't get over is that as often as not, when I see a Pious on the move, it's either breaking the speed limit or tailgating somebody.
I think they must resent it somehow when the initial flush of social responsibility wears off!
|
>> What I can't get over is that as often as not, when I see a
>> Pious on the move, it's either breaking the speed limit or tailgating somebody.
>>
>> I think they must resent it somehow when the initial flush of social responsibility wears
>> off!
>>
>>
Yep - rarely seen under about 90mph on the motorway (under which circumstances they are probably doing about 35 mpg if that).
Most are company cars due to the stupidly cheap BIK. I seem to recall when they were on our list, they worked out at under £90 a month even at 40%. Take up here was non-existent. There isn't one of them on a fleet of over 200 cars.
|
Yep - rarely seen under about 90mph on the motorway...
Rarely seen, or just rarely noticed? I suspect a spot of confirmation bias.
|
If you're buying new, or only a few years old, there's also the Yaris and Auris hybrids to consider, and the Prius 7-seater.
I've only ever been a short distance passenger in Priuses. They've felt comfortable to travel in around town. Moving off silently is disconcerting (I guess you get used to it). They struck me as the very definition of 'magic carpet' ride - but I can't imagine one would ever be engaging.
Seems you really liked your old Prelude, but haven't warmed to the new Accord (which I've read is much more disengaging to drive than the old Accords were). If you're looking for a smaller car, would you consider a Subaru Imprezza hatch or XV crossover?
I'm completely satisfied with my Legacy - I honestly can't think of anything I'd change it for - and the boxer diesel pulls remarkably well but is otherwise petrol-like to drive. The only snag is that the diesel is is only offered with CVT auto on the latest Legacy and Outback diesel. For all other models, its petrol engines with CVT only.
|
Gromit, you're a virtuoso on that one-stringed fiddle. The man asked about hybrids and you want him to have a Subaru. I suspect he could have asked about helicopters and you'd have suggested the same thing.
};---)
|
It was just a thought, WdB.
If I've understood Mike's recent posts correctly, he feels the build quality of his current Accord isn't as good as Hondas of old, and he's not enamoured with how it drives either.
So thinking laterally, he may want a combination of economy, ride comfort, good handling and good build quality. What's left to suggest? Whatever it is should stand comparison with his XJS and Prelude.
Other posts here suggest MB or BMW - which should tick the first three boxes - may not be up to scratch on quality for the premium he'll pay for them. My brother's 2007 3 series has had its share of faults, whereas the same age Legacy, with almost twice the mileage run, has had none.
A Mondeo or Focus maybe, but Ford aren't as commonplace in France as the UK, so finding a good one could be harder than, say, an Opel/Renault/PSA car. Other Toyotas aren't likely to be any more inspiring than the Accord.
Actually....there are Peugeot diesel hybrids. I've only seen the grossly overpriced 508 here in Ireland, but there might be keener deals to be had in their homeland.
I wonder how much a good used Lexus hybrid would cost? For ride and build quality, at least, surely there's nothing to beat one?
Or maybe the "driv-e" range of Volvo diesels. OK, not hybrid, but fuel efficient and, FiL's XC60 still seems as new after 4 years. There are automatics to be had, and well-sorted variants such as that tasty V40 Rob got recently. Even a Polestar version if that's Mike's thing.
And by the way, the right Subaru is cheaper to run and probably just as quick across country as a helicopter :-)
|
I knew if we looked hard enough we'd find something less fuel-efficient than a Subaru.
}:---)
|
Hmm. Lexus CT. They've depreciated hugely in the UK.
And the Peugeot 508 RXH estate can already be had at 50% of the new price. I'd be tempted to look at one if I were in the 15k budget bracket. But I expect it's got a cambelt. And Mike wants something smaller than an Accord.
|
There's a 3008 hybrid being advertised here too. I've not seen one in the metal, even thoughthe dealership that services my brand-that-dare-not-be-named sells Pugs too :-)
Cars don't depreciate nearly as fast in France as here, but weighed against that the French makers seem to have quite an amount of nearly-new ex-rental/ex-lease stock to sell at a discount which might take the sting out of a 508 or 3008. I've no idea what the local market is like for Lexus.
|
Reviews of the CT have been damning. Not just poor, but truly awful, especially in comfort and refinement. Part of me feels it can't possibly be that bad and wants to try one, but then I remember that the rest of me considers the Mercedes C agricultural and unworthy, so it probably wouldn't be a good idea.
It is quite fun, though, to drive a car with an intolerable flaw - provided I can give it back afterwards. I remember the Grandis with its rough-as-a-badger's VW diesel engine, the S60 with its uncontrollable parking brake, the Hyundai Accent with its - well, everything. You can't dress life's salad without a little vinegar.
}:---)
|
>>Hyundai Accent
Good heavens, man. I hope you didn't drive that around any WDHs. The locals would either be chasing you with pitchforks or asking you for decorating quotes.
|
>> Does Coventry count?
>>
Ah. Well, the H still applies.
;-)
|
>> Gromit, you're a virtuoso on that one-stringed fiddle. The man asked about hybrids and you
>> want him to have a Subaru. I suspect he could have asked about helicopters and
>> you'd have suggested the same thing.
>> };---)
Well said. What the man needs is a Skoda Roomster:)
|
"What the man needs is a Skoda Roomster:)"
Funny enough, I recently considered one - or a Berlingo - as a replacment for the Panda we'd outgrown as a second car. But the Roomster can't take three child seats across the back and all the Berlingos we found were converted for wheelchair use.
We ended up with a Honda FRV. So in fact I have two strings to my fiddle*, but I'm guessing Mike doesn't want to hear the Honda one right now ;-)
* There's also the accompanying beat of "must not buy another Renault, must not buy another Renault", but that's another story...
|
Strangely enough I had a chat with my Melbourne taxi driver today, admiring his brand new Toyota Camry Hybrid. He told me that Fords and Toyotas are the way to go for reliability, that Holdens don't last as taxis and are generally troublesome (I have heard this from other cab firms too).
I asked how the Camry (no Avensis over here) drove and he said it was nice, refined and very economical using less than 1/3rd the fuel of his previous Ford Falcon which he described as out-dated now.
I found that typically they run their cars up to a licence imposed maximum of 6 years old which is about 700,000Km. I asked how the battery pack might last and he said that he knows of Camry Hybrids already well into the 300,000Kms range with no battery problems. He added that he saves so much in fuel that he is unconcerned if the batteries need replacing at some point.
So, in answer to the OP, hybrids appear to be nice to drive, economical and reliable - at least the Toyota models.
|
I have driven both a Prius and a Yaris hybrid when I was looking to buy one.
Good things:
very quiet around town, low down acceleration from stopped or dawdling is very good, seamless changes on gearbox, very easy to drive especially in traffic/stop/start driving. Relaxing.
Bad:
If you have a hard and insensitive right foot, acceleration at speed can be noisy, getting real good fuel consumption requires different driving styles , driving in car parks requires care as pedestrians hear nothing so get in way, in hilly country you will get poor fuel consumption whatever you do.
I decided that where we live - lots of hills - meant I would never see the benefits in fuel consumption..but would incur the extra purchase costs..
|
DiL has a lexus hybrid - in her old petrol car she got 28/30mpg. Hybrid gives 50 mpg.
She would get more but she has a heavy right foot and that gives less - in any car whether diesel/petrol or hybrid. £300 petrol per month is now £180 ish
|
I suspect a hybrid would make a good drive-to-work car for me. Not because I'm a town driver - I'm not - but because my journey combines medium-speed motorway traffic (some mornings I'm pleased if I see 60) and queues. I fret about the wasted fuel as the LEC uselessly stirs its porridge and wish it had stop-start - which, of course, a hybrid does.
What I really want to replace the S60 is a Golf GTI, but then I think about the depressing 40mph reality of driving in the Southeast and wonder if there's any point. But too many of the septuagenarian bedroom hoggers in my road have Priuses, so it would have to be something more discreet - or more outlandish. Anyone tried a BMW i3?
|
All very well WDB, all very well, but you've been and gone and done it now haven't you?
I needed to use "her" car the other day and it was fine. Just fine.
Then I got back in the Merc, settled into the leather armchair, snicked it into D, put on ( Four Seasons if interested ) some relaxing music, lightly clasped the just so good soft leather AMG steering wheel and wafted off for a 30 mile or so country lane round trip.
While doing so I asked myself if I would be as happy doing the same journey in the other car for example, and my answer to myself was "almost".
Life is sometimes too short for "almost" if a better choice is available. "Almost" is of course more than fine if expedient.
|
|
Seamless changes? It never changes "gear". There is only one gear:)
|
Friends have a Lexus CT200. It is uncomfortable and the boot is tiny (blame the batteries). But cheap as a company car.
So far as hybrids are concerned, they work best in urban driving. On the open road you rarely get the benefit of the hybrid. Same friends drove their Lexus to Switzerland alongside our fully laden diesel S-Max. They had to refuel twice as often - maybe the tank is half the size - but you get my drift.
|
>> Anyone tried a BMW i3?
It's only really any good for short journeys isn't it? Claimed range is up to 80 miles but we all know that's an upper limit.
Even the model with the bike engine for a range extender has limits to it's uses as a main car, e.g. small fuel tank and reduced performance when the engine is having to charge it. It's only really for use when you get caught out and the battery has run down and it's aimed at getting you to a charging point.
How about the upcoming Golf GTE?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 24 Jun 14 at 15:57
|
True, but if I had one it would be used for my regular rush-hour trundle and some local journeys - like the 12 miles to Wokingham in which the speed limit only once (and briefly) rises above 40.
For longer and four-Beest trips, the LEC is in its element.
What's an open road?
}:---(
|
One of the two Priusesssses I mentioned earlier belonged to a friend who used it for a mix of daily commuting (approx 20 miles each way at 40mph, then 5 miles city driving) and occasional 2-3 hour runs fully loaded on national roads at a steady 60mph.
As others have mentioned , she also reckoned on the longer runs, the Prius was doing no better MPG than any 1.6 petrol Corolla or Avensis would. It was in its element in stop/start work though.
PS: An open road, WDB, has little traffic, good surfaces and sensible speed limits. Mike is surrounded by them in the centre of France. They're ideally suited to a spirited run in a S ... oh, well, never mind ;-)
Last edited by: Gromit on Tue 24 Jun 14 at 16:26
|
But having a second car for the commute isn't cost effective for many surely? The extra insurance and the cost of purchase (and depreciation) means it would be cheaper to run the larger inefficient car all the time.
I can see how a hybrid might make financial sense if you need a bigger car for the family but a commute into London congestion zone is factored in. And you get free electric at work :-) But many hybrids don't plug in to the mains.
As a company car, the plugin Prius is much cheaper for BIK than the normal Prius despite being a lot more expensive for P11d values. But I wouldn't want a Prius. You don't have to plug it in to get the savings.
Now a Golf GTE might have been a more likeable proposition. Again plugin hybrid. I'm not referring to the e-Golf which is electric only.
|
If you're thinking about us, RTJ, we would run two cars anyway, only one of which needs to be capable of long, four-up journeys. But given that, and that roughly 8,000 of our combined 15,000 miles a year are accounted for by my commute, an economical but comfortable short-range (50 miles a day) car seems to make sense. The Volvo can fill that role for now, but it's old and has to go eventually.
Golf GTE sounds interesting. Will investigate.
|
|
Looked it up. Now very interested!
|
As a company car, the Golf GTE would be very interesting too. Some performance but low running costs. And low BIK costs. Not out until August so never an option for me.
I'll have essentially the same engine in the Audi A3. With S-tronic gearbox it has a coasting mode which means engine drops to idle at times. And presumably with only two cylinders as well? I wonder how my real world MPG will compare between Passat CC 170PS manual and A3 1.4TFSI 150PS with a DSG box.
|
Surely it should be: "What the man needs is a Ford Mondeo."
Which made me think; do they even still make a Mondeo? Not read of one on here in probably years.
|
I was chauffeured around in an electric Focus last week.
Real tyre shredder and needs the traction control to keep it on the black stuff.
I was surprised by the noise inside the cabin, no noticeable lack of engine noise due to tyre rumble. Had a range of around 80 miles.
I was informed it would accelerate quite uniformly and briskly up to 90mph where it peaked.
It would be ideal for Mrs gmac as a runabout, we could swap if she needs more range.
Last edited by: gmac on Tue 24 Jun 14 at 18:34
|
Mike, as others have implied, it depends on the type of driving you do. The more you drive in town or on country lanes, the more a hybrid will suit you (and the Auris hybrid looks just like any other Auris). I've seen road tests saying that Toyota hybrids are better to drive than Hondas.
If you do a lot of motorway /autoroute miles, you'll soon tire of the high revs an lack of economy of the petrol engine.
I like the sound of the Audi A3 e-tron: although I'm nowhere near a new car (mine is only 9 months old), it's always fun to think about the next one. It may be too expensive, but a range of 31 miles on electric power (as opposed to the Toyotas' 12 or so) would suit local trips in the Dorset lanes where we're moving to, coupled with the same petrol engine that RTJ is getting in his A3. Hopefully the DSG on this won't be as frenetic as the Toyota CVT.
I've been invited to a test drive event of the e-tron by Audi next week, so I'll report on my impressions. I think there's going to be an equivalent hybrid Golf - is that the GTE?
|
Posted my Toyota Prius thoughts before and often. So to summarise, excellent mpg (just today done 100 mile run from Louth to Cambridge, country roads and A1, filled up in Louth, computer is reading 72mpg now on drive).
Comfy, quiet, toys everywhere in my T-Spirit.
Bad points for some perhaps; take it over 75 mph and fuel consumption will plummet to a "disastrous" 45 to 50mpg, it will be noisy, and it will roar at you if you floor it. If you are that kind of driver regularly, not for you. The occasional use in those conditions is fine.
Not hugely involving as a drive, but pretty relaxing. You won't be taking it on track days, that's for sure.
Of course, unlike other cars, look at your mpg as you come into town, crawl through the traffic and watch your mpg rise, not fall.
So as always, it depends.
Lots of hooey about them (battery life and so on, all mostly nonsense).
Lexus CT is just a smaller more expensive worse economy Prius and to me, utterly pointless. A proper Lexus, though (GS, LS) is however streets ahead of a Prius in comfort and involvement, and the hybrid GS450 an interesting compromise, although of course you get half the fuel economy of Prius or Auris. Torn at the minute between replacing the Prius with one, or keeping the Prius and picking up a to me lovely Lexus SC as a weekend car.
|
I quite fancy the CT200h. The reviews by the motoring press all whine about the ride quality being to firm, but then they want everything to feel sporty, and I would assume the drive-train wont match those expectations. The actual owners reviews are all a lot morepositive
The facelift came out a couple of months back and I gather ride quality has been addressed, but not seen any recent reviews
|
We have a dozen or so Yaris hybrids on the local fleet and I drive them quite regularly. They seem quite nice....although a bit of a pensioner's motor........which suits me. Reliable and bland.
I liked the Priuses we had, apart from the silly spoiler on the tailgate glass which restricts vision. I loved the heads up speedo reflected onto the bottom of the windscreen.....just in the right place and very bright, even in the Sun. They have gone now, replaced by 2 Aurises...one a shooting-brake. Ugly, IMO. I thought the Prius a nice looker.
As a slight drift, one of our Yarises shares an on-street bay with our only Zafira..61 reg. I had to move both cars on Saturday morning in connection with a parade and duly put them in p&d bays next to each other a couple of hundred yards away.
Come to move them back on Monday morning and the Zafira had gone. The office checked the records and no-one had hired it over the weekend. I was the last user. Satellite records showed it still parked up at 2247 hrs on Sunday where I'd left it and nothing since. The tracker has been disabled.
Someone out there knows the system and has the expertise....I'm not sure we'll see that one again. Shame really, had £5K spent on it last year when Man United fans jumped alll over it on their victory parade !
|
"The tracker has been disabled."
Do you mean by the thief? If so, does that mean that trackers are a waste on money?
|
Presumably there is a clue to these being vehicles in a car share - otherwise how would one know which it was in a car park when collecting.
Back to the OP which I forgot to properly answer: I had a short test drive of an IS300h. Quite nice and no droning. I'm sure if I floored it, it would accelerate and use fuel ... but accompanied. Put off because:
- SE cheaper but no folding rear seat
- BIK higher for the next model up
- Foot operated parking brake
- A free sat nav upgrade was available until April but I wouldn't get it
In the end I didn't explore further because of the cost to me. But a nice enough car. Very nice I suppose.
|
Thanks for all the input folks, much appreciated. We live at the moment in a very rural and quite hilly area, but maybe not for too much longer. The future probably lies in a more urban environment so the hybrid idea really does look to be a possibility.
These days I just quail at the thought of going through all the car-buying process yet again, which isn't a help. I used to change about once a year!
I suppose we'll have to decide whether to stay here or go back to Blighty before we make the car choice. It's like picking between two foreign countries now. The Front Nationale won the election here recently and I've noticed a change in attitude to foreigners in general as well. The FN is very different from UKIP I fear.
|
>> The
>> Front Nationale won the election here recently and I've noticed a change in attitude to
>> foreigners in general as well. The FN is very different from UKIP I fear.
>>
How depressing. After all that post-war progress.
Sigh.
|
|
I had a Prius as a hire car last year. No issue with the car itself but you need to prepare yourself for pedestrians randomly stepping out in front of you due to the lack of engine noise. I've done exactly the same thing myself and fortunately it was only the sharp reactions of the driver that stopped me being squished.
|
|
Tyre makers have been trying for years to convince us theirs are the quietest (Michelins are, in my limited experience) but perhaps the electric revolution will change this and some motion noise will be a necessary safety feature. Just as Amsterdam is safer when it rains because you can hear the bikes coming - although I can't be sure because it always rains in Amsterdam.
|
I think the Japanese have just legislated that at low speeds electric vehicles now have to have some sort of warning sound.
I have to say that in 40k miles I've never yet had a pedestrian step out or anything similar. Sometimes in car parks walking people are slower to notice you are behind them, but when you get within a few yards they hear the tyres, it seems. Never been a problem yet.
|
|
Surely if you drive an electric vehicle pedestrians hear the milk bottles clanking. :-)
|
>> No issue with the car
>> itself but you need to prepare yourself for pedestrians randomly stepping out in front of
>> you due to the lack of engine noise.
Seconded. One neighbour has a Prius and a hybrid Yaris, another a big Lexus hybris SUV. All three roll almost silently either entering or leaving the road. I've stepped out at least twice.
|
Fell off your bike in the garden too as I recall? Want to put more tonic in it maybe?
;-)
|
I had the silent car syndrome problem in the Vauxhall Ampera I borrowed for a few days. Very worrying to drive in an urban street where pedestrians use their ears to see if the road is clear! (The car itself was very impressive - just too expensive).
I think the EU is/has legislated for 'leccy cars to drone all the time as a warning for lazy or blind pedestrians.
|
|
We have an electric van at work. Nearly ran my mate over when he stepped out in front of it. Driver was not phased, and I got the impression he was used to it
|
"I think the EU is/has legislated for 'leccy cars to drone all the time"
The EU has legislated for accountants to drone all the time too. My brother-in-law does it.
|
>> "I think the EU is/has legislated for 'leccy cars to drone all the time
Droning and whining are boring. At the risk of droning on boringly, I've said before that there should be a sensor on the car that unleashes a warning sound at high volume when it detects a pedestrian or cyclist threatening to cross its path. Perhaps the sound of a Porsche 917 making a bad gearchange and getting violent wheelspin, or a 24-cylinder rotary aero engine starting up. Even a couple of bars from the Sex Pistols or the opening line of the great song Plaistow Patricia by that lame bloke who was such a good poet... That should make them jump.
|
|
My pal's C63 sounds thunderous when provoked. I can't help wondering if that is a deliberate thing. It's a bit like the sound you would imagine coming from Brian Blessed trapped in a sack full of several lions while being whipped. Well, it does to me.
|
>> Fell off your bike in the garden too as I recall? Want to put more
>> tonic in it maybe?
>>
>> ;-)
HA HA. Fell off bike two years ago next week on station car park - riding back to car. Stupid to do so over wet metal decking though.
Stepping in road? Once while mowing grass and another while putting bins out.
|
Have driven a Prius and don't see the point. The fun of watching the screen would soon wear off.
My Passat is more economical (hence less damage to the environment without considering battery manufacture and disposal)
If you do mainly short runs it may work out, if you do predominantly long runs you are hauling the dead weigh of the battery around.
Don't you live in France, do what everyone else does - get a diesel.
|
|
I've got one thanks - after several years of ignoring the inevitable. But I don't like it much although the economics (if you live in France) are indisputable.
|
>> My Passat is more economical (hence less damage to the environment without considering battery manufacture
>> and disposal)
>>
Depends what you consider to be environmental damage. PM10's ?
|
Careful on PM10s or we'll all be back on bikes.
Weren't DPFs introduced for this very reason?
Now with direct injection petrol engines they are seeing increases in NOx and particulate matter from petrol engines. The solution ? EGR. You know, those valves that gunk up on diesels well new GDi engines are getting them too. Hurrah !
|
What is a hybrid like to drive? Or own? - Alanovich
