hi gang, finally decided to drive to rome and back with SWMBO end of july beginning august (shes the italian interest)
bought an x wales council berlingo 1.9 d van 177k on the clock
any help with the route ,ferry, and all things wrong side of the road welcome
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Fab !
It will be hot though at that time of year. If the van has AC make sure it's working. If not at least make sure the blower fan is working properly. Also, if no AC, try to source some wooden beaded seat cover thingies. Makes a heck of a difference.
Lots of toll roads so make sure you keep a Euro cash stash to hand although some will take cards.
Ferry often quite a bit cheaper than the tunnel during holiday season and anyway it's sometimes a welcome leg stretch / fresh air opportunity.
Have a great time!
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Don't forget legal stuff and wise essentials! V5, insurance certificate, breathalyzer kit (France) Red triangle, reflective jackets, spare bulbs, breakdown insurance, paper map(s), beam deflectors. France forbids the display of speed cameras on satnavs and I am there is more!
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Cheapest way over the water is Dover-Dunkirk.
In a van I'd be looking for the most scenic route, the thought of hammering down an autoroute in a 1.9d would not appeal.
Throw a matress in the back and you can control when to drive, when to rest.
Enjoy the trip!
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can one doss on a blow up mattress in the back whilst tuther drives...in eurozone?
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Dunno. Update us when you get back...
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Can one? - Of course.
Should one? - Probably not.
Will anyone know*. - Probably not.
I would.
*unless an unspeakably bad accident occurs.
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>> can one doss on a blow up mattress in the back whilst tuther drives...in eurozone?
>>
Probably not, unless wearing a seat belt. I just always seem to drift off to sleep whem SWMBO is driving on our long continental jaunts between Austria and the UK, I just recline the passenger seat and use a suitable neck support cushion. Probably frightens the life out of the locals, as it's a RHD car but with Austrian plates ;-)
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How much time have you got for the round trip and how much of that do you want to spend in Rome?
Our 05 Berlingo is a 1.9D and it's absolutely fine on the autoroute. Although capable of 130kph it does get raucous above 3000rpm but will cruise at around 110kph with that limitation.
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We got as far as Geneva without paying a toll last month, partly scenic route. Could easily have made the Mont Blanc Tunnel without paying any.
Calais - Brugge - Luxembourg - Metz - Nancy - Besancon - Pontarlier - Les Rousses - Segny.
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I've posted this route before:
Tunnel to Calais, (as above, Dover to Dunkirk may be cheaper, and less driving in France) then E40 into Belgium towards Bruges, then Brussels.
Free motorways in Belgium, but the worst drivers in Europe!
Taking care around Brussels (We got lost after taking the wrong exit) follow the E411/E25 to Luxemburg. Fill up here - Lux was the cheapest fuel in Europe then.
E21 to Metz and Nancy, (Free Mway) then N59 to Colmar - very pleasant, but slower route.
After Colmar, take the E25 towards Mulhouse, but to avoid Basle, turn off at the Mulhouse junction on A36 across the Rhine to Germany. Turn South on E35.
Take the turn off just before Basel to Lorrach (route 98) and continue into Switzerland that way. Its a good road all the way - mainly dual carriageway - and it only took 10 minutes to 'do the checks' to enter Switzerland and 15 to leave. You end up on the Swiss motorway about 1km East of the turn to Lucerne.
Go towards Basle, but quickly take the E25 to Lucerne.
At Lucerne follow E35 for Lugano which takes you over the St Gotthard Pass – or the tunnel if its foggy – Pass is a superb route.
Carry on to Lugano, Bellinzona and Como.
Route is toll free until Italy, but you need a Swiss Motorway vignette, which you can get online from:
rail.stc.co.uk/vignette.html
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Or if you want to avoid Switzerland and all that vinaigrette stuff you could head from Luxembourg to Stuttgart, Munich and nip across the thin bit of Austria down to Trento, Bologna and on to Rome.
It'll be fun whichever / whatever.
Quite hard to get bad food in Italy but go for a Trattoria rather than a Ristorante if you want to keep your wallet healthy.
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Ferry prices today when finding cost of taking car and caravan over in July/August were much of a muchness DFDS/P&O/MyFerrylink. The tunnel was MUCH more.
Like me OP is three hours plus from Dover so probably ready for a break which the ferry amply provides.
Google suggests Calais to Rome is about 15-17 hours driving. Personally I wouldn't even think about doing that in one hit. Obviously too much for one driver and even if you split it, swapping every couple of hours, allowing for food and toilet stops it's going to be nigh on 24hrs block time.
Neither would I consider sleeping in the back of a moving van, reclined seat and neck pillow both safer and more comfortable. Whoever is driving though will really want a 'co-pilot' to act as navigator and second pair of eyes on road as well as operating radio/CD and taking any phone calls! If you're off Autoroute or '2*2 voies' passenger seat observer is needed for overtakes.
My suggestion would be to get a crossing mid afternoon UK time arriving in France c17:00 local. Stop overnight near Calais - we used B&B Hotel at Coquelles on numerous occasions - or maybe get 200k under belt then stop. Get up refreshed and early and after hotel's excellent breakfast be on road again by 07:00. Plan one further overnight, probably in Northern Italy, and hit Rome following day.
Never gone quite as far as Rome but we've got to Carcassone and various Alpine/Provencal destinations using that principle arriving with time in hand to set up tent and sort out. Auvergne or Alsace/Jura about limit for one day's travel based on a Calais first night.
Obviously there's cost/time involved in overnight stops but it makes a much more pleasant journey.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 3 Jun 14 at 15:21
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3 hours from Northampton to Dover?
Blimey! I knew those Berlingos were slow but...
;-)
Under 4 hours from Cheshire to Dover with the bikes upstairs ( not tugging a shed though admittedly )
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RdH, I've just ordered some roof racks for our bikes. What sort of adjustment downwards form the legal maximum do you make on motorways, if any? I've never driven with such contraptions before, any advice welcome.
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Be careful of height limits on some Autoroute tolls - if using a Telepeage 30km lanes? - there is something in the back of my mind that some routes are also limited. Pretty sure the duplex tunnel SW of Paris has a (very low) height restriction.
Best I can find at the moment is:- "There are height restriction barriers in the Class 1 vehicle lanes, normally 2 metres high, although cars with roof luggage can normally get under the barrier."
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>> Be careful of height limits on some Autoroute tolls - if using a Telepeage 30km
>> lanes? - there is something in the back of my mind that some routes are
>> also limited. Pretty sure the duplex tunnel SW of Paris has a (very low) height
>> restriction.
>>
>> Best I can find at the moment is:- "There are height restriction barriers in the
>> Class 1 vehicle lanes, normally 2 metres high, although cars with roof luggage can normally
>> get under the barrier."
I think the limit on Class 1 lanes is 2m. We could creep under in a Xantia with roof box but no chance in a similarly loaded Berlingo - 2.3m. The A86 'super peripherique' is as low as 2m in places.
We didn't realise that and planned to use it last year returning from Pyrenees, in Berlingo with roof box. The restriction is well signed in as you approach but wasn't apparent on the Michelin map I'd used for planning.
A quick re-route saw us onto the Francillienne outer ring and eventually to our intended route, the A16 to Amiens where we were nightstopping. Miss B was driving at time and I was Nav whilee Mrs B snoozed in the rear seat - an example of why a conscious and alert front seat passenger is near essential.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 5 Jun 14 at 10:52
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I can do it in less than that in a fully freighted artic limited to 56MPH:)
Pat
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@ AV - if they are properly secured, no reason to worry if you are at or near the legal limit. I add a few strategically placed cable ties for longer faster runs.
Rips your mpg though if you clog on too much. My car drops from +/- 50 mpg to around 32 mpg with the bikes on top at motorway speeds.
@ Pat - sounds right, Bromp must have a weak bladder or something!
;-)
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>> 3 hours from Northampton to Dover?
Google says 2:50 via M1/M25/M20 though my preference is for A2/M2 rather than M20. We usually stop for a wee and driver change at South Mimms. Unless Cheshire extend to Birmingham I can't Dover being much less than 4:30 even with zero traffic and a lax attitude to 70 limit ;-P
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 3 Jun 14 at 15:45
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See, weeing and driver changing, that's your problem!
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>> See, weeing and driver changing, that's your problem!
Knew a desert warrior who had driven a Land Rover during a daring and successful long-distance raid by taking a curved route through some hundreds of miles of very unfrequented desert across a couple of national frontiers. One reason for the absence of traffic or roads was the existence of huge areas of soft dry sand. It's a mistake to stop on that because the car will sink a bit and dig itself in by spinning some wheels when you try to restart. You don't have to go terrifically fast but if you keep moving steadily you don't get stuck so easily. The driving skills displayed are quite difficult and very different from the ones we know.
I said, you must have to stop for a pee sometimes. Giggling, he told me that you just had to pee while driving, and crap too when necessary, especially when having done the raid you are fleeing from aviation and superior, not-best-pleased land forces. You could just hose it out later, when you got to a place with some water pressure.
:o}
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 3 Jun 14 at 16:14
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Quite tough to do that on the M25 though. Especially as he's new to towing and all.
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>> reclined seat and neck pillow both safer and more comfortable
More comfortable? Perhaps, but it being a van I don't know how much the seats will recline.
Safer? Really? In that position its all going to go wrong - stomach, knees and neck for a start.
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>> Safer? Really? In that position its all going to go wrong - stomach, knees and
>> neck for a start.
Lack of clarity on my part, I meant reclined to a comfortable rake - not fully flat. Never reclined ours beyond that point so don't know how far they'll go. Submarining might still be a risk but surely less so than being loose in the loadbay.
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>> Like me OP is three hours plus from Dover so probably ready for a break
>> which the ferry amply provides.
>>
As has been covered the breaks and driver swaps are what's killing you on time but if 2 hour stints are your limits then you just work around them.
>> Neither would I consider sleeping in the back of a moving van, reclined seat and
>> neck pillow both safer and more comfortable. Whoever is driving though will really want a
>> 'co-pilot' to act as navigator and second pair of eyes on road as well as
>> operating radio/CD and taking any phone calls! If you're off Autoroute or '2*2 voies' passenger
>> seat observer is needed for overtakes.
>>
I don't buy in to this passenger as a spotter. The person doing the driving should be doing just that not relying on someone else's say so. Hang back and you can see as well as the locals. Look for the curves, on a right hand curve, you have the advantage of seeing up the road on the inside of the vehicle in front which the left hooker does not.
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Better for kerb crawling too. They say.
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>> As has been covered the breaks and driver swaps are what's killing you on time
>> but if 2 hour stints are your limits then you just work around them.
I can do it in a around 2:45 without a stop but realistically that's about the minimum bearing in mind Dartford Crossing and roadworks. Last time we did it there was a very long 50 section on NE quadrant of the M25.
Until we got the new Berlingo in September we had same 1.9D as OP. It'll do 70-80 but as I said upthread it's much more relaxed kept under 3k/rpm - equal to a tad under 70. The stop at SM is under 10mins.
>> I don't buy in to this passenger as a spotter. The person doing the driving
>> should be doing just that not relying on someone else's say so. Hang back and
>> you can see as well as the locals. Look for the curves, on a right
>> hand curve, you have the advantage of seeing up the road on the inside of
>> the vehicle in front which the left hooker does not.
You can do it without a spotter on basis you describe and no doubt that's the right thing for you expats.
As somebody doing it for three weeks in a year having somebody seeing stuff from LHD perspective to respond to 'how am I for overtake?' and give a narrative on approaching oppo direction traffic until driver can move out far enough to see works for us.
Ultimately it's still the drivers call.
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I would never rely on a "spotter". I overtake, for example, when I think it is safe. Not when the passenger thinks it is, whoever or whatever. If *I* can't see that its safe, then *I* don't overtake.
However, on the rest of it I'm kind of with Bromp. Who wants to do it in a hurry?
Its a holiday, you drive at whatever speed makes you comfortable and stop however often you enjoy, and whatever works for your holiday.
I don't like to drive till my bum is numb. I do like sitting in a cafe watching the world go by. difficult to resist alcohol with a meal (I expect, I've never tried) so lodgings en-route normally get involved.
I enjoy the journey as part of the experience.
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I don't overtake until I can see it's safe either.
I do find it useful to have some help from another driver who will narrate what's approaching and advise opportunities I cannot see without weaving. Only after she's said maybe will I edge to a point I can see the opposite lane and take a final call.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 4 Jun 14 at 14:25
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Bit ostentatious trying to overtake in a diesel Berlingo towing a caravan.
You'd have thought. Maybe it's the effect of rockin' out to the sound of 'The carnival is over' of course !
;-)
Cyclists maybe...
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 4 Jun 14 at 14:32
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>> >>
>> As somebody doing it for three weeks in a year having somebody seeing stuff from
>> LHD perspective to respond to 'how am I for overtake?' and give a narrative on
>> approaching oppo direction traffic until driver can move out far enough to see works for
>> us.
>>
>> Ultimately it's still the drivers call.
>>
We work the same way and as I do the driving and as SWMBO is a little more cautious than me I have never had to abort one.
If you want to get there quickly you don't really want to be on single carriageway (90kph) roads so it should not really be a problem.
Last edited by: IJWS14 on Thu 5 Jun 14 at 08:15
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If driving a rhd vehicle in a country which drives on the right, all you have to do to safely overtake is hang back a bit more from the vehicle in front to extend your sight line.
Many people drive too close to the vehicle they are following anyway ( even if their steering wheel is on the most appropriate side for the country ) especially if they are gearing up for a pass, far safer and indeed more effective to position your car further back so you have more acceleration room when it's safe to overtake.
How often do you see someone right up the chuff of the slower moving vehicle, weaving in and out to 'have a look' and then eventually pulling out on to the opposite side of the road before even beginning to accelerate.
Unless they have a powerful vehicle they then spend far too much time in a potentially head on scenario.
Far better to hang back, wait for your opportunity and accelerate past spending as little time as possible on the wrong side of the road.
In my humble of course.
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It explains why lorry drivers can always spot a company car driver who does mega miles a mile off....and never worry about him either.
Pat
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"Many people drive too close to the vehicle they are following"
We are talking France, Italy etc here - should read
"ALL people drive too close to the vehicle they are following"
French seem to love tailgating - it's perfectly normal for them to follow you with about 1 metre between your boot and their bonnet even at 80 mph (130kph)on the motorway. Heaven forbid you are doing 20 kph above speed limit on an ordinary road, they'll be even closer.
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>>>> it only took 10 minutes to 'do the checks' to enter Switzerland and 15 to
>> leave.
What checks . . . . Obviously you look suspicious.
Did France - Switzerland - France - Switzerland - France in the space of about 2 hours on the run from Pontarlier to Verchaix and no checks at any crossing.
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nice replies thanks guys
heres the history
2001 berlingo van 1.9d 177k
ex council van (north wales)
runs fine but had a coolant low warning light flicker.. topped it up with about half a pint of water for now at 1k if it drops again will put anti freeze to see if it hunts
coolant not oily at inspection
windscreen washer not working( suspect blocked pipes) will give it a dose of bi-carb and blow back the pipes
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It'll be good to hear how you get on Zookeeper. Long road trips can be fun especially when you keep a fairly open ended agenda.
I would though strongly advise you to make sure the cooling system really is functioning properly before you go. Like I mentioned earlier it will be hot at the time of year you're planning to travel and any weaknesses there could give problems.
Also well worth getting some form of European breakdown cover just in case of unforeseen problems.
Are you going to modify the inside of the van in any way? As in create a sleeping / camping option in it?
Depending on what you want from your trip, one option might be to use camp sites (which rent static caravans and tents or lodges etc ) to break the journey. Some will let you stay for just one night if you want. Probably best to book in advance at that busy time of year though rather than just turn up on spec. Like I say, it depends what you're looking for but it can sometimes make more of an 'adventure' of it than just staying in anonymous motorway hotels.
If you wanted to check that sort of thing out, you'd do worse than go on a Eurocamp type website, not necessarily to book one of their accomodations, but more to get a feel of the sites they are on. Usually the sites themselves have their own accomodations options which are often much cheaper than booking through one of the main travel companies.
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>> I would though strongly advise you to make sure the cooling system really is functioning
>> properly before you go.
Yeah. Remember what happened to AC in the Bois de Boulogne when he drove to Paris with a suspect cooling system?
i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa332/alanovich/Volvo%20360/2012-08-29-094.jpg
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If you just got a flicker on the warning light it could be low coolant sensor at fault. As you're already doing it's simplest to go 'back to basics' monitoring level in reservoir and then using smell, sight and feel to identify any leak. As an aside mine has a faulty brake fluid level sensor. I just check it regularly and ignore the occasional warning which soon self cancels.
The washer pump is a pig to access as it's in the offside wheel arch between body skin and arch liner. Proper access needs wheel off and liner out but it's possible to get fingers to it enough to check wiring plug is fully home etc. Working properly it produces a strong jet and consumes fluid pretty quickly - I keep 5 litres pre-mixed in a jerry in the boot.
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so far so good on the coolant front, not dropped an iota...but i cant work out the washer bottle dilemma, when i filled it the water seems to be just hanging in the neck of the resevoir and when i give it a shake it almost feels empty below?
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Pipe come off maybe? Perhaps you are just filling a 'U' bend type arrangement?
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Citroen Berlingo Multispace - hinckley to rome and back - Runfer D'Hills
