Well it's our turn to step into the murky world of popular low insurance/VED £1000ish cars for eldest daughter (19 this summer).
Needs one for a 3mth summer job then 2nd year at uni ideally needs car flexibility. Sadly my idea of me having a fun car and her using Mrs F's has hit a brick wall!
Insurance for popular 1.0-1.2 models on confused.com seems OK around £700 with me as a named driver. £105 VED band would be nice but not essential. No diesels. 3dr OK.
Nothing unusual that will be an issue for online service/repair info or parts availability.
Target cost up to £1200 so looking up to £1500 asking. No more as this car will spend the next 2yrs ferrying other students about and live on the street.
In truth we've never really had many small cars and they are a bit outside my experience. Any thoughts?
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Panda, Aygo, 107, C1 would be my starting point.
Or overrule the objection to your fun car !
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Start with the insurance quotes for the small-engined models that are plentiful on the second-hand market near you and work backwards - then eliminate the ones that cost too much to insure, or too much to buy.
It also wants to be cheap enough that you can afford to write it off if its badly damaged and plentiful enough that you can get panels and trim easily from breakers yards in the case of minor bumps. You only want to claim on a comprehensive policy for a complete write-off, if at all possible.
Back when I bought my first car, Polos were making silly money, Coras and Saxos were loaded and so a 1.2 Punto worked out cheapest overall to buy and run until I established a useful NCB. Oh, and given the choice, square bodies are good - they fit more stuff for moving home at the end of term, so you stand less chance of getting called in for a ferry run or three!
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When faced with a similar dilemma my brother in law bought himself a Fireblade and instructed the rest of his family to sort themselves out!
Bit unreconstructed my brother in law...
;-)
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The little old Nissan Micra just keeps going on, and on and on ............
Take a look at the number of old ones still on the road.
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That's true. I know somebody who bought a £500 Micra and ran it for 5 years.
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The Micra has a reputation as an old folks car (my neighbours have a his and hers). If you daughter can get over that, there are some real bargains to be had as it genuinely seems to keep on and going and there are low mileage examples with a service history.
I've never driven one, but the late lamented Car and Car Conversions magazine always rated their handling as pretty good.
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My wife had a loan of a new model 3 cylinder Micra last time her Qashqai was in for service.
Fairly disturbingly she quite liked driving it. Even more concerning was that I didn't mind it either and found myself thinking it wasn't a bad little car.
We are both over that now of course but for a short while there...
Maybe it's something inevitable as the years advance that you start being attracted to small Japanese cars?
Bit like arthritis.
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You're not helping Runfer... I was read the riot act last night about enjoying myself any more.
You see I managed to "retire" at 55 but Mrs F needs to go to 60-62 (we're same age) to make the best of her pension. For some reason this is perceived as unfair and forms a starting position for opposition during any attempt at man maths.
Oddly with daughter's details honestly input and me as a named driver as long as we keep to a 1.2 engine small hatch the insurance quotes are all in the range £650-£850 fully comp so that doesn't seem too much of an issue in car choice.
Must admit the Punto attracts me for some reason. Nissan Micra... they're a car I've had nothing to do with but by chance I was offered one last night by a contact at a good price. But I looked around the net... on HJ in particular... and there seemed to be more potential issues than my old Alfa. This one was a 2003 1.2 petrol.
Yes agree it has to be looked on as disposable and £1200 is about as much as we could bear to chuck away. We will buy/tax/service car and she will pay insurance/fuel.
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Last of line previous generation Suzuki Swift?
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I could look into the Swift but there are a bit of a niche car in the UK regarding spares supply and repair info... well compared with a Clio or Corsa.
Re Micras this is the sort of thing I'm finding on the net...
The 2003 on Micra (k12 engine) is a pain. If you have had a trouble free one you are very lucky. Google timing chain nissan micra and see. They cost £1600 to replace at Nissan and upwards of £900 at local garages. If you buy one from a dealer make sure you have engine warranty. Try to part ex a 2003 Micra and see what you get. To replace a chain and sprockets the engine and box have to come out and the sides taken off to get at the chain. Its 2 days work hence the price in garages. I am fed up of taking mine back since it was purchased.. The 'intelligent' key is u/s. The lock barrel breaks regularly, the key is £120 on its own...need I go on? The Nissan mech told me in confidence they are a very unreliable car and cost a bomb to put right. As I write this the micra is outside again with another stretched chain despite being regulary serviced etc.
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Both my granddaughters passed their tests on the same day 3 months ago and have both bought original model Ford Kas with which they seem to be pleased. Paid around £1000 for each of the cars, privately, and around £700 a year for insurance
Last edited by: Meldrew on Thu 29 May 14 at 11:24
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Based on absolutely no experience at all, how about a Toyota Yaris. Surely they'll be reliable?
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Yes Yaris might be OK... about £500 up on price for a given age/spec over other makes though.
Anyway forget the spares/service of a Swift... this is close enough for us to view... bet she'd jump at the colour/look. High miles for a small engine though.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201405174289783
No disrespect to those that like the old Ka but I looked after one for a friend a few years back and drove it loads... not going to be on our list.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 29 May 14 at 11:31
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That's got to be worth a look, lovely little thing. Just so its coped with the miles. It wouldn't be the engine that would worry me so much as the wear and tear on the rest of it.
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I think as long as engine/transmission drove smoothly now her use over a couple of years would see it remain about the same as I will do the servicing.
Elecs all need to work Ok then beyond that suspension bushes, brake bit and wheel bearings etc are all bread and butter stuff.... as long as you don't run up against unique to dealer Mercedes priced bits which I have with an old Suzuki Alto I looked after for a high mileage vicar's wife!!
Yaris... I was a bit out on values.. they are available within £200 or so of a similar car.... and sometimes very cheap ones turn up so I guess some get doggy at 12yrs old.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 29 May 14 at 11:41
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FWIW, the Punto (mine was last of the Mk 1s) served me very well as a first car. It was as cheap as possible to insure, road tax was marginally more than a (more expensive to buy) 1 litre and it did about 40-42 mpg.
It was cheaply fixed with parts from the scrappy when it was broken into, and still sold on after almost 5 years of use for decent money. A key factor was the Punto was the best selling car of its age on the scrappage scheme of the era, so parts were plentiful and small garages were well used to their foibles.
Room enough inside the batch loaf-shaped body to carry all my stuff during house moves with the back seats down. Or an outboard engine. Or the dogs. Or three mates and their lugguage (including a twin lens reflex camera kit!), fun to drive without being fast enough to - ahem! - get me into trouble. Only sold it, in fact, because I got a good offer of FiL's 3 series just as the old-car bills started looming on the Punto, and remembered it fondly enough that we bought a Panda as our last runabout.
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And annoyingly advertised at £990 when they really want £1,990!!
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Yes it's a bit over budget at the real price but it looks so nice. Agree re pricing "scam" to keep their advertising fees down. I press the report button on every one of those.
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Punto.... Interesting Gromit. I actually really like the look of the Punto. It seems a bit more substantial than some £1000-ish cars, roomy as you say, I like the style and exterior/interior colours often bright.
I've messaged daughter to search Autotrader herself with the essential boxes ticked to get an idea of what she fancies. She knows it has to be the right car put before ultimate colour choice but I don't want to force something on her she hates.
One of her first friends to pass her test immediately bought a bright yellow 2003 1.2 Punto and that always looked great.
>>>an outboard engine. Or the dogs
Good man... we're doing a bit of that tomorrow & Sat as the weather looks better and tides are right.
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>> to keep their advertising fees down
Is that why they do it? I assumed it was to get their car further up the list and surrounded by tattier examples.
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>>>to keep their advertising fees down... Is that why they do it?
Yep taking Mrs F's old C3 worth about £2600 as an example a two week Autotrader listing is £36 but if you "scam" the price to £999 it is only £9.99 for the same two week ad.
nbd for some reason that older Swift doesn't appeal... compared to the more upright modern model or a Punto etc it looks a bit low if that makes sense.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 29 May 14 at 12:14
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>> Based on absolutely no experience at all, how about a Toyota Yaris. Surely they'll be reliable?
>>
10 years ago I sourced a S/H Yaris 1.3 CDX for my daughter. V reg 60K and now at about 120K miles.
In that time ....
Needs a second set of front anti roll bar links.
O2 sensor replaced a couple of years ago.
It has had a replacement battery.
Changed a number plate bulb for the MoT.
Pads and disks changed
Original exhaust has just started to blow.
It is just white goods to her and I am the only person to wash it ( about once a year)
Rarely serviced.
Unsorted faults.
lights on indication and radio stops working when lights are switched on.
I chose the 1.3 for ease of M/Way driving and a little more Ooomph.
Highest spec for sun roof/ CD player etc as it was to last a long time.
So to me a Yaris seems a good choice.
IIRC someone said investigate insurance on higher engined cars as some seem LOWER cost re insurance due to not being popular with youngsters
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>>>IIRC someone said investigate insurance on higher engined cars as some seem LOWER cost re insurance due to not being popular with youngsters
You're right Henry. I've been on screenshare Skype to her again for an hour tonight with quote after quote from confused.com. Seems you must never assume as the slightest change in spec or model name can make a huge difference.... and not always the way you'd think. To me biggest surprise was that a 1.4 Golf can be on the list.... even a 1.6 16V for just £100 more a year on insurance.
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>>. To me biggest surprise was that a 1.4 Golf can be on the list.... even a 1.6 16V for just £100 more a year on insurance.
>>
IIRC the example was a 1.6 Focus was cheaper than a 1.4
Happy hunting.
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"the slightest change in spec or model name can make a huge difference.... "
Back when I was buying the Punto, 5 doors were (IIRC) a bit cheaper to insure than 3, and Quinn Direct (as was) prohibited having a towbar fitted to the car.
Brother's Punto came with one already fitted, and their concession was they wouldn't put him to the cost of removing it BUT they added a clause to the policy excluding him from using it.
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Mk1 Mazda2.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201405244472322
Most of them pensioner owned, unabused, well looked after.
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That Mazda *really* looks the business. Only £100 up on insurance for the larger engine which I like the thought of... particularly as it isn't that fast for a 1400 which is probably best for her.
But it's too cheap by at least £500... wonder why?
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Well it's only an example. I'm sure you could find a good 'un for a grand, if this particular one isn't up to snuff.
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Well yes... except I know I said best car choice first and colour secondary... and the Scots van tug is silver... but she has a dread of the best car being a silver one. Mrs F didn't want silver 4yrs ago with her C3 but the best one was silver and that's what she ended up with, then with the 525 the best one was silver so we already have 2 silver cars. Daughter said last night anything but silver please.... so probably... silver it is.
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First world problems, eh? Couldn't give a stuff what colour a car is these days. It's pretty hard to dodge monochrome/silver however, sadly. Our two are black and silver. Haven't had an interesting colour in ages, probably not since my lovely met red FIAT Marea.
Here's yer answer then:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201405244469061
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 29 May 14 at 12:45
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>>>Well it's only an example...
I know and it's appreciated as they weren't on my radar but look so good. Nice useful shape, 5dr, CD player, aircon, nice Costa sized cupholders, smart modern look... in fact almost too good for her.
One of the cheapest is this but it looks to be in Scotland, it's a diesel... and has it really been towing that van!
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201404093186878
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Just an aside.
Daughter is looking forward to driving a car which isn't Mrs F's C3 diesel. We don't notice these things but compared to the driving school cars she's been in she finds.... The elec power steering over light with over strong self centering, the gearchange too floppy, the power delivery too sluggish (not the actual power but she just prefers the revvy nature of even a small cc petrol), the clutch bite point too high (well I guess it's 75% worn) and the handling a bit roly poly.
In truth she's right.
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Ask Stu or Rattle - they've both got good experience of buying qwaliteeee cheap cars.... :-)
You know yourself it will come down to what's available locally at a palatable price and insurance wise. But my recent experience says avoid anything at a dealer - it will be a shed at around £1k. If Miss F has been on your insurance, worth contacting some of the insurers by phone to see if they will offer NCD against it - I know Direct Line used to, as we blagged full NCD on my wife's first policy on the grounds she's been on mine for a few years.
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I've been trying to work out how to punctuate
"Small student life friendly 1st car for daughter".
Small student - meaning legroom not a problem?
Student life - must be capable of carrying at least 8 drunken students
Friendly 1st car - affectionate and understanding of inexperienced mistakes?
Or is this a swap offer - a small car in exchange for your daughter?
:)
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Of course you're right Richard... well I'll ignore the first line :-)
At that price point the dealer margin/uplift over private is just taking out cash I'd rather spend on MOT/Service/tyres.
Insurance really doesn't seem to be an issue. I'd been grumbling for months that it might be £1500-£2000 given she was involved in a bump while learning which ended up settled 25% to us and 75% to the other party.... I've declared that. Keeping to 1.4 engines nothing is over £900 and all the stuff I've put in over the morning has been within a £150 range. Also that is all on confused.com and when it comes to the car being here on the drive we'll try our insurer LV who seem so cheap for self and Mrs F her being civil like (my Alfa under £200 fully comp with full business for self and Mrs F). They might do a deal for daughter of...
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 29 May 14 at 13:07
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Seem to think 'classic' cars are cheap to insure for young drivers. May not suit Ms F of course but my son, who in fairness has a way to go until he's 17, is starting to mutter about MGs and old Landrovers etc...he is a bloke though and wouldn't be afraid to open a Haynes manual !
Might be a different prospect for a young lady ( if that's not too 'ist' )
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>> Seem to think 'classic' cars are cheap to insure for young drivers.
Wouldn't mind my nippers in one of these:
www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C497629
This one's even better:
www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C469054#
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 29 May 14 at 14:04
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We bought both of our sons a Punto each. They both learnt in our old Mk1 and I like the simplicity of them. They're a known quantity for me as I do all the maintainance/repairs myself.
No 1 son got a 2002 model bought for him last summer. 85k miles and needing a head gasket, it cost £321. After repairs and the usual service items, it came in around £550. He has put around 10k on it since with only petrol to buy.
No2 son got a 2004 model with 112k miles bought two months ago for £400. This one needed a clutch and again with service items has been around £550.
The overall condition of both can't be described as showroom, but they are tidy and drive very nicely. My advice, if you decide on a Punto, is to start the search early. There are a lot of really c**p ones about as they seem to attract owners who don't care much for routine servicing and repairs. Plus points are they are easy to repair (and I know you are handy with the spanners)and spares are plentiful at the breakers should you need body or trim items.
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See you're doing it again... dangling the thought of a classic motor or old LR in front of a car enthusiast dad!
But as you say it's got to be a boy... or unusual girl (think before you reply to that Pat!)... who will want to be involved with rust, filler, oil on the road, no brakes, poor winter starting and all the other delights associated with an old classic left on the street.
Just had 30mins on Skype with her and screen shared both ways as we trawled Autotrader. She isn't saying no but thinks the Mazda2 looks a bit bulky both visually and to park. Likes the look of a Punto... yellow sport model in particular but despite insurance being OK I'm not keen as previous owners might have been more inclined to cane them.
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Nothing can be as important as a car that will not let her down in the middle of the night or somewhere remote.
However attractive the idea of a classic might be.
On which subject, are you close to her Uni? (Sorry, I forget). Because if not perhaps a breakdown/recovery service should also be factored in to the budget.
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My wife wants an old Land Rover ( we did used to have one back in the dark ages ) but I think she has more of a Lara Croft version in mind now than the Flintstones one we had.
Actually, come to think of it, I might have a bit of a Lara Croft fantasy too...
;-)
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If you;re gonna aim, Fenlander, aim high...
www.adrianstomcat.co.uk/LaraCroft.htm
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If I showed that Nene one to my wife she would wee herself, and she's not Danish either.
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Most of them pensioner owned, unabused...
How is a twice-weekly cold start for a half-mile trip to Asda, or an entire life without a full warm-up or even passing 3000rpm not a form of abuse?
[Slept badly last night, feeling argumentative today. Can you tell?]
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Does she wannabe the coolest kitten on campus?
Ship this from Malta:
www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C499778
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Hmm I think her cool-o-meter might not register that.
I used to service an orange saloon like that for a friend back around 1980, they had the dealer do the first service from new then I serviced every 6mths for another couple of years. Very easy to work on and it has to be said nice quality after the many British cars I was used to back then... I remember the elecs being so well laid out.
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For student coolness wouldn't it have to be a Beetle, 2CV or original Mini?
We had a '73 VW bus when I was starting college. I'd have given my eye teeth to have it, but the insurance was ruinous. Too many of them had been filled to the gunwales with drunken student mates and stuck in the ditch on the way home...
Student bus pass for Gromit instead :-(
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I had a Beetle as a student, an N reg 1303. It was terribly unreliable and left me stranded a few times. I flogged it and got a near 100% reliable FIAT Regata instead, which got me to Gibraltar and back a few times from Nottingham. I've more affection for the Regata still than the Beetle. Had more success with the ladies in the FIAT too.
The only thing which ever went on it was the cambelt (sorry, Runfer). Happily the only negative consequence of that failure was one slightly bent valve. The car soldiered on for years, an uncle of mine taking it over from me and running the poor thing in to the ground.
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Classic cars are incredibly cheap to insure for middle-aged dads (I've just renewed my two for £80 the pair) but not so cheap for young people, and many won't insure under 25s.
But in the same position a year ago we found the cheapest car for an 18-year old on an ordinary policy was a large ancient Volvo estate. No street cred so no-one drives them so no accident statistics so low premiums. Engine size didn't seem to have anything to do with it. 2.3 litres were half the price of a Peugeot with 1.1.
So she went with the Peugeot.
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Spend a grand on a clean, late, low mileage 106 1.1. Lovely to drive, good looking (IMHO), the TU engines go forever and are mechanically and electronically simple enough to look after yourself, they don't rot, cheap parts, cheap tyres, great on fuel etc.
There's a 54,000 mile one owner 52 plater on the Trader for a grand.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 29 May 14 at 14:32
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Fenlander - you said "The 2003 on Micra (k12 engine) is a pain."
You don't want that one. You want the old K2 that finished production in around 2002 / 2003 if I recall the dates correctly.
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>> Fenlander - you said "The 2003 on Micra (k12 engine) is a pain."
>>
>> You don't want that one. You want the old K2 that finished production in around
>> 2002 / 2003 if I recall the dates correctly.
>>
Spamette Minor has a 2002 1.0L K11 Micra, no service history, around a grand IIRC, in 15 months it's had about 50 quid spent on it, sailed through MOT.
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Is a Skoda an option ?
A million mini-cab drivers can't be wrong with the Octavia being a popular choice, a Fabia would be a decent size runabout.
Plenty available in silver ;-)
Last edited by: gmac on Thu 29 May 14 at 14:49
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And it wouldn't get nicked.
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DE I think it would be hard to get an old shape Micra past her... and I remember from experience a decade ago they are also prone to timing chain/tensioner issues if used for short runs (common) with infrequent oil changes.
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Missed the edit:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201404103208278
Has a years MOT and 6 months tax on it. Coolant looks in good shape. Few scuffs in it but it's almost ten years old.
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Don't know why but thought a neat Fabia would be too expensive to buy and too much to insure... but loads about just under/above £1000 and insurance for a 1.4 is equal cheapest of all cars I've checked out (with a 1.2 Micra, 2003 model).
Interesting.
I'd be OK with it but she might have the same phobia as Runfer... as in you don't work hard over all those years to reach a certain posn in life then have to give THAT answer to the "what is your car" question :-)
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 29 May 14 at 15:05
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Yeah, it's the school reunions that lash it up. Unless you go on the train of course.
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>>> Unless you go on the train of course
But they'll still get round to asking... it's essential judgemental info at a school reunion.
That's why I maintain a low profile when the old boys lot get after me... I could kill the person who gave them my contact details.
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Never felt embarrassed by our Fabia, even though it was one of the first and was still doing its bit to shift Skoda from joke to serious car maker. Not a truly small car - about the size of the mid-90s Astra - but that meant there was room in the back for me, or for a baby bucket and a Group 1 seat. That may be useful to Miss F if she goes to the same parties as Miss NoFM.
};---)
Just avoid the Skoda 1.4 engine (badged 1.4 MPI) that we had. Noisy, slow and still heavy on fuel - it never cracked 40mpg in its seven years with us - and had persistent coolant problems. But even the VW-engined models will be pretty cheap now.
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I think you should go back to a Yaris. My elder daughter had four in a row- never a problem although admittedly they were new. The 1.3 is worth it over the 1.0 unless it's much more to insure.
Her first two cars were Ford Kas which she loved: I'm not sure how reliable an old one would be. When she was looking for her next car, she though all possibilities looked awful except the Yaris and the Smart Forfour. The Smart didn't have much (and still doesn't ) to recommend it, so there was never any regret about going for the Yaris.
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Don't women worry about looking big in them? Or have I got that wrong?
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Give her an incentive to stick in for those last two years, get a good job and she can go out and get whatever she wants leaving Dad a handy runabout/tip car.
Dad can then lose the BMW wagon and get a toy while Mum still has not retired hahahaha!!!
Last edited by: gmac on Thu 29 May 14 at 15:10
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Yep I'm going to find an attractive colour mint Fabia on Autotrader and run it past her on Skype in a bit... it's all about the marketing even to your daughter.
So far my favourites are Fabia, Mazda2 and Punto.
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I suspect a 19 year old will have zero worries regarding image when it comes to Skoda, today's teens weren't here in the era of Skodas being "embarrassing". She may be sensitive to a Punto being a bit chav, though, and a Mazda2 being a bit pensioner.
But what do I know. I'm in my 40s and won't have a teenager of my own (I don't mean in the Rolf Harris sense) for another 4 years.
Good luck. And remind her she'll be lucky to have whatever she ends up with. But you know that already.
;-)
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 29 May 14 at 15:22
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What I now realize was a Punto followed me on to the M4 the other evening. In my mirror I saw no grille badge, and could barely make out the driver's baseball cap above the steering wheel. But I could see the patio-sized wing on the tailgate - and that the whole thing was painted a shade of orange too vivid even for me.
To my surprise, rather than forcing its way into lane 3 and screaming away to the west, it tucked into lane 1 and trundled along a fair way behind me, until I lost sight of it near Slough. Should I have got the owner's phone number?
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>>>a Mazda2 being a bit pensioner.
Yep that part of their look wasn't lost on her.. not quite a no though.
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>> I suspect a 19 year old will have zero worries
I dunno about that but I have zero worries. Will he be mean to me, will he think I'm wrong, etc. etc.
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>>>get a toy while Mum still has not retired hahahaha!!!
Oh it's no joke... it really isn't. I've spent all day on a leisurely virtual car hunt (plus some income generating stuff as well to be fair) but she won't leave work until 7pm... a 12hr day.
You have to tread carefully for the first half hour she's back.
BTW NoFM you asked about distances... daughter's a very easy 85ml run away... 1hr 30 min or less for me outside peak times and £25 in diesel there and back for the 525. We also pass within 5mls of her a few times a year on a different trip we make. Plus she would probably return home about 5 times a year so plenty of chances to see her car to look it over or do an oil change... but yes breakdown cover a given. I see some insurance deals discount it for an add on as low as £40 inc recovery with a £700 fully comp policy.
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Fair enough, the least you can do is make her up a plate of sandwiches for when she comes in, set up her ironing board for her and make sure you're ready to come home when she comes to fetch you from the pub later.
Only fair really.
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When my girls were at that stage, I did spend a lot more and buy them both 2 year old cars (Peugeot 106 & Fiesta). I did get a bit of 'Daddies Princesses' stick for spending that much, but my considerations were - at that time safety features in newer cars were sooo much better and concerns about them having a problem with the car when a five hour round trip away from home.
Both girls went on to keep them for nearly 10 years and have only recently moved on to other cars, so I think there's scope for a bit of man math's to show it was a cost effective thing to do!
Good luck...
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Paul it's another route and the money isn't the issue but having a car street parked in a uni town for 2yrs is. I know those who've had their cars vandal scratched (2 or 3 panels at a time) suspected by local residents or their kids who object to student parking in their side streets. Daughter is going to a house for next year and poss year after which has no drive and its own street is double yellows.
Agree about the safety features and that's why something like a Mazda2 appeals over an older more basic car.
Somewhat annoyingly her plus the 3 sharing friends had a chance of a nice semi in next village to uni with drive and garage in quiet street but turned it down as at the time of booking their next year accom none of them was sure to have access to a car.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 29 May 14 at 17:09
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Sounds increasingly like a case for an auld LR! Or an old Vitara convertible...shabby chic sort of thing.
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What... for crashing into others with impunity??
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Aye well maybe, but I was thinking more along the lines of that which could be parked where it might encounter some amount of enemy action.
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>>> enemy action
Yep an old LR ideal for that. That's why we ran them as a 3rd vehicle while doing the horse thing. I remember one day an old mare (horse you understand) getting her teeth locked on an old 90's wing... then closing her jaw leaving a series of 3" marks down to the alloy... but it didn't matter one bit.
Mind you I also remember in deepest winter getting older series types that had stood for a week warm (relative term) and defrosted ready for a next village trip.... would have been quicker to get the bus.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 29 May 14 at 17:45
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Oh yes, the Peugeot in particular hardly had an undamaged panel by graduation, we used to joke that it looked like a proper French car! Didn't seem to bother the girls who have an 'easy jet' type attitude to cars and are just interesting in arriving at their destination cheaply and efficiently!
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We still have a 1.9D Peugeot 306 which has been used as a student car amongst other things. Its student days finished about 4 years ago but we've hung on to it for a total of 8 years. Here comes the advert: It's done about 115,000 miles and still works (mainly) although various non-essential parts don't anymore. We'll be selling it in the autumn when another runabout becomes available.
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate on Thu 29 May 14 at 18:03
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I genuinely did have an old Land Rover as a student, but there was a hidden agenda as it it was in Scotland and weekends were spent teaching sixth formers from a local girl's school to ski.
Someone had to do it. Tough as it was. We haven't all had an easy start in life you know.
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>>were spent teaching sixth formers from a local girl's school to ski.
Operation Yewtree is listening.
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I was 20, they were 18. It was often hard you know.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 29 May 14 at 18:35
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But at least it didn't last long.
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Indeed.
Rarely took longer than three sessions and in some cases they were at their best after just one weekend. The more athletic ones anyway.
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>> When my girls were at that stage, I did spend a lot more and buy
>> them both 2 year old cars (Peugeot 106 & Fiesta). I did get a bit
>> of 'Daddies Princesses' stick for spending that much, but my considerations were - at that
>> time safety features in newer cars were sooo much better and concerns about them having
>> a problem with the car when a five hour round trip away from home.
>>
Did they make good use of the extra safety features? Are the roads really more dangerous today than the 70's with all those ageing drug addled hippies from the 60's and drink drivers?
Of course rust gets into the structure but I sometimes wonder if the NCAP ratings aren't slightly rigged towards new cars in the same way fuel consumption figures has us all driving from one Christmas to the next on a single tank of fuel only to be sadly disappointed when we bother to check the numbers in the real world.
>> Both girls went on to keep them for nearly 10 years and have only recently
>> moved on to other cars, so I think there's scope for a bit of man
>> math's to show it was a cost effective thing to do!
>>
Less scope for a bit of Dad man maths into his toy if more cash is tied up in metal work for the young ones.
If it is Sheffield that Fenlander is talking about leaving the car parked on the street then I'd spend the least amount of money. I lived in Sheffield went into town one weekend using the car to pick something up. I left my car in broad daylight parked on street, came back to find someone had relieved me of the back box.
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>> Fair enough, the least you can do is make her up a plate of sandwiches
>> for when she comes in...
>>
Woooah! Woooah! Woooah! Sandwiches ?
You'll be getting the rest of us a bad name showing off your fancy culinary skills.
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Yeah sorry, my speciality though is cheese and raw onion. Usually results in them not eating it and the sandwiches being available when you get back from the pub. Result all round in the end.
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You should have tried kippers.
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They give her wind.
Edit - I quite like Sheffield. I was once told that if you get lost in Sheffield just walk downhill and you will eventually find the city centre.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 29 May 14 at 19:02
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I lived there for ten years, loved the close proximity of the centre and national park.
The £200 parking bill was a bit unreasonable but I learnt/learned my lesson and either ordered online or went to Meadowhall after that.
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The points about the risk of vandalism make the argument stronger for the Skoda.
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"I was once told that if you get lost in Sheffield just walk downhill and you will eventually find the city centre. "
Are you sure they didn't say " I was once told that if you get lost in Sheffield just walk UPHILL and you will eventually find the city centre." ??
;-)
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No not Sheffield but I guess there can be a simmering anti-uni feeling in any uni town and in streets where parking is already an issue for house owners I bet a student car competing for space would not go down well.
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>> Yeah sorry, my speciality though is cheese and raw onion.
>>
Good grief man! give us a chance, you'll be sautéing onions before we can get the grater on the chopping thingymajig.
Does your missus wrap them in clingfilm for your return from the pub if she doesn't fancy them, keep them fresh like ? ;-)
Or, did I read that wrong and it's a cheese sandwich with a peeled onion like an apple on the side of the plate ?
Last edited by: gmac on Thu 29 May 14 at 21:48
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>>>Yeah sorry, my speciality though is cheese and raw onion
Hmm Mrs F isn't going to fall for that as she has cast iron guts... she'd wolf those down and ask for more when you'd walked back from the pub.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 29 May 14 at 21:49
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Just thinking a bit 'left field' small cars hold their value a lot better because that is what a lot of people want, especially those looking for cheap insurance.
I get every part of that, but young new drivers are more likely to have some sort of prang, and irrespective of how good EuroNCAP ratings are, smaller cars will of course be a less safe place to be than a bigger car with a similar rating.
It is one of the world's less exciting cars, but a good reliable one could be an Almera? One of the last 05's or '06's could be in budget? (Have not checked). Very good EuroNCAP, and of course a lot more metal / crumple zones arround you than a C1, etc
My wife had a 1.5s for a few years and whilst a little bland, it was spacious, reliable, easy to fix, well kitted (the S was basic spec, but aircon, power windows and lots of airbags as standard) and was amazingly cheap to insure. Fast enough with a 1.5 petrol, but not too fast, and not exactly a style icon.
You might be surprised at whether this could be as cheap to insure, and when my daughter is old enough to drive I would be considering something just a bit bigger than one of the very small cars, purely from this safety aspect.
Just a thought...
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Whilst we're considering insurance, one thing Spamette Minor found when getting quotes was that the price dropped significantly (over 100 quid/15%) for a policy starting a month from the quote date, rather than just a few days.
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>>>Would you consider one of these, F?
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201404163375566
The old model no as she is not keen on that body style... the new one looks nice. Some might say anything is better than walking but car plus tyres/MOT/service/VED and insurance will take us up to perhaps £2250 to get her on the road so no point in getting something she (or me) isn't keen on.... within reason... I've already knocked on the head an elec roof, leather seated 2lit Pug convertible!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 30 May 14 at 16:42
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Funnily enough I've been speaking to a friend in Edinburgh today who's son is at Dundee university. They bought him an old Ka in September 2012 to use there. £600 worth apparently. Bit tatty here and there but still plugging on now some 20 months later. Just got through its latest MOT last week it seems.
Cheap enough motoring by all accounts.
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Many thanks all for responses... they genuinely helped the initial online looking process.
Agreed shortlist between self and daughter is Punto, Corsa, Fabia, Fiesta (but only if 2005-on shape) with a Panda as an outside consideration. No silver, gold, purple or very pale yellow.
Fabia or Punto my leaning... probably Fabia actually if a decent one turns up within 40mls or so.
Busy few days now but the hunt starts properly at the end of the week.
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Come in a bit late on this one.
I'm going through the same nightmare with twin girls. One passed her test first time week last Wednesday and the other is taking her test this week.
I found Money Supermarket good in that you could crunch the numbers with a variety of cars without knowing a reg number.
Then its the hunt for the ideal car that THEY want not what Dad advises as he knows who's going to be spannering. I'd found a few very low mileage Fiestas, Micras with good provenance, but not Corsas - boy racers you see. 1.25cc types with at least a bit of grunt and marginally dearer to insure than the 3 cylinder 1Ltr jobies.
So after trawling the lots on Saturday we have ANOTHER Kia on the drive. 1Ltr 3 cylinder Picanto. Because "I like that." :(
The insurance seems to be the lowest of a variety of cars and comes in at £1036 fully comp with me and Mrs FC. Black box to be fitted and that's FOC.
One down one to go.
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Interesting Fullchat. Daughter and I agreed either could veto something they really didn't want then we'd work on the middle ground remaining. We seem to have been luckier with insurance quotes £200-£400 cheaper.
Our younger daughter turns 17 in a month and I expect her to be a better driver and quick to pass so at least we will be well researched for her turn. Thankfully she has already saved enough to buy a car and for a good down payment on the insurance. Of course when the time comes to be fair we will buy her car too... but she could add funds to upgrade I guess.
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"We seem to have been luckier with insurance quotes £200-£400 cheaper."
Is that perhaps due to her being a tad older and perhaps having passed her test a bit longer?
Postcode as well? And there are very few bends in the Fens :)
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Ha well we're off the fen now (just) but kept the username.
She is 19 in 3wks and has 10mths driving as a named driver which I guess is a positive.. but does have a 25/75% blame accident (she was the 25%) as a learner too..... our postcode does help I know.
Our quotes for something like the Picanto were around £660 through Confused... with no black box which I don't want.
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Well it's taken a month to find a decent car for her.
The looking process has been so difficult with the majority of suitable size £1000ish cars on Autotrader being unloved near end of life disasters.
We looked mostly at Punto & Fabia plus Fiesta & Clio too. There were so few (percentage wise) private sales we looked at loads in dealers and there wasn't one car under £1500 I'd have considered... seats worn to holes, missing trim, scored alloys, unsightly rust, full history = no history, underbonnet area with gaffer tape substituting for broken clips/fixings, missing wheel trims, missing wheel change tools, oil level under min mark, boiling up stains evident around header tank, misfires on starting, blown exhausts, stodgy end of life clutches, not one with an acceptable set of tyres etc etc... total disasters.
Private sales mostly didn't fare very well either with 90% failing on the first question... "If I were to look at the car would I find the V5 is registered to you and the address you are selling from"... rather too many answers were a no but then smoothly explained away with excuses involving the wife's uncle or ex-girlfriend. Also quite a few at £995 turned out to want several hundred pounds more when you phoned as they tried to keep their Autotrader fees down in the £9.99 rate for under £1000 ads.
It seemed that elusive "nice little car" being honestly sold by a decent person/family was never going to appear.... until last night.
So we have bought privately a 2004 Polo 1.4 petrol 3dr, one professional lady owner for past 10yrs and genuinely almost unmarked inside and out. Full history including all invoices from new, 12mths MOT, 4 matching Michelins, met paint, original alloys, air-con (a bonus we didn't expect to find in our price range). Maintenance had been kept up to date by an obsessive husband (always Castrol fully-syn, main dealer for recent cambelt and water pump). Even has a recently fitted Sony stereo with IPod control and connectivity facility.
To be honest Polos had been a little off our radar as nice ones were very hard to find and they command a fair premium over Puntos etc so we are very lucky to have found this one.
Collect tonight, fingers crossed tomorrow's post-purchase inspection and service (if needed) goes well.
Insurance OK at £880 from General Accident for fully comp with legal protection and no black box.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 4 Jul 14 at 10:00
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Sounds an excellent buy, F. I love little cars like that.
Can't help feeling that if you'd considered Jap/Korean marques though you'd have found more well looked after, private owned vehicles - you know, pensioner stuff.
Congrats, hope it turns out as good as it sounds. You seem to have an eye (and the patience I lack) for these things!
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Yes, well done.
Just sold our 52,000 mile 12 year old Civic 1.6 VTEC auto as it has been replaced by the Roomster. £1000 to a friend. Cosmetically challenged with minor dings and bumper scrapes, but mechanically perfect. At the MoT it only scored 1 of whatever they measure HC in, "better than a BMW!".
Arguably should have kept it, but we'd need to replace it eventually and the boss may as well have the pleasure of a newer car now, though I'm hoping she can be luckier (or more careful) with this one...most of the damage on the Civic was supermarket car park stuff.
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Good result, Fen.
Searching for cars at the cheap end of the market is an absolute nightmare and I can fully relate to all the excuses you heard about why the V5 didn't tie up with the seller's name and address. If I had a quid for every tall tale I heard I'd have a big smile on my face.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Fri 4 Jul 14 at 11:29
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On the other hand I sold a car on behalf of my sister last year. My name and address were not on the V5 of course, I was helping out as my sister is disabled and her husband is in the forces and away a lot. The buyer was satisfied with a phone call to my sister to confirm everything was in order. The dialling code matched her address. Perhaps he wouldn't have proceeded if the number provided were a mobile.
It was an ebay sale and it's obvious form my history that I'm not a car dealer, and it's obvious also from a cursory glance at my home.
Not all these situations are dealers/scams, but I would be wary myself of course. When I was 18 I bought a FIAT 127 Sport off a bloke who arranged to meet me in a public car park. The car turned out to be a lemon. Lesson learned.
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>> Good result, Fen.
>>
>> Searching for cars at the cheap end of the market is an absolute nightmare and
>> I can fully relate to all the excuses you heard about why the V5 didn't
>> tie up with the seller's name and address. If I had a quid for every
>> tall tale I heard I'd have a big smile on my face.
>>
Oh yes, as a long term bangernomics driver I've seen plenty of sheds :-(...plus looking for cars for the rest of the family. Having said that I've bought cars from pub car park and kerbside "dealers" without issue.
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>> Oh yes, as a long term bangernomics driver I've seen plenty of sheds :-(...plus looking
>> for cars for the rest of the family.
I just can't do it anymore - it's so disheartening as it seems there's something dodgy about everything you look at, and there's some kind of law which dictates that the further you drive to look, the bigger the whoppers you'll have been told!
You seem to often hear about cracking little cars a few days after the owner had given them away in p/x. :(
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>>
>> I just can't do it anymore - it's so disheartening as it seems there's something
>> dodgy about everything you look at, and there's some kind of law which dictates that
>> the further you drive to look, the bigger the whoppers you'll have been told!
>>
Yep, ain't that the truth. :-/
When I was Zafira hunting for SWMBO last year I saw one on the Trader a 2 hour drive from home, but it sounded really good from the advert; full main dealer service history and so on. Turned up to look at it: engine management light permanently on, traction control light ditto, scruffy interior and the plastic cover missing form the top of the engine. Plus it was an Opel so the toy level was way below what I'd get from a Vauxhall.
Next one was a mere half an hour from home, again FMDSH, looked very tidy inside and out, head gasket had gone though :-(
On the other hand my current Astra was bought within 4 hours of starting to look and has cost me about 40 quid to run for 2 years (apart from tyres)- that one was from a small time dealer selling a couple of cars a week form his drive.
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>>>Can't help feeling that if you'd considered Jap/Korean marques though you'd have found more well looked after, private owned vehicles - you know, pensioner stuff.
Just noticed this.
Well yes I'm sure you're right Alanovic... pensioner stuff... hmm... she's 19... which is why we largely avoided such things!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 7 Jul 14 at 13:56
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My son is a long way off getting a car yet but as mentioned elsewhere he's already researching it. He'll either go down the well trodden small hatchback route or might go for something old and interesting.
However, given the good service she's had from her Qashqai, my wife innocently mentioned that a Micra or a Note might be just the thing.
He nearly choked.
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>> might go for something old and interesting.
Which his wise old sire might also prefer, hmmmm?
This new rear-engined three-cylinder Twingo looks a real little fun rocket. Any red-blooded boy would love the thing, and it won't be dear either... not quite out yet though so he'll have to be patient if he isn't going to spend half a million quid on a chain drive Frazer-Nash...
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My 13 year old has his eye on a DS3, reckoning an early high mileage one might just be affordable in 4 years time ...
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Good work FL!
Sounds very similar to my recent experience when looking for a Xantia replacement. Eventually came across a 307 SW that I had dismissed as a bit too dear and not really waht I was looking for, however, when I went to see it, it was virtually unmarked inside and out, and there were a sheaf of main dealer bills - the lady owner worked at the dealer, and had all the work done there! It had had a fair few of the bits that occur around this age (springs, discs / pads etc etc). Was very pleased to bag it for £3100 - would have been £4.5 - 5k at a dealer at a guess. So far have put nearly 5k on it - AC was U/S which I didn't realiseon test, but that was fixed for £100 with a new condenser and re-gas, and it needs a wheel bearing now, but I am very pleased with it.
Sometimes gems do just appear, but you have got to be looking!
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Never be desperate to find a car; never works.
Alanovic'>>It was an ebay sale and it's obvious form my history that I'm not a car dealer, and
>>it's obvious also from a cursory glance at my home.
I'm just wondering what it is about your home that makes it so clear that you're not a car dealer. And I've had a couple of really good cars from doorstep dealers. And a lemon, oh the lemon. Shouldn't have bought it, but I needed it so made a silly decision. Would have been - a bit - cheaper to hire a car.
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Thanks for positive comments.
I agree there is no reason why a small trader working from home shouldn't have the odd decent car but it just adds a layer of mistrust when they pose as private and that's why I always ask about the reg keeper and then never view such cars.
Anyway collected last night with the near 50ml drive home a good assessment opportunity. So pleased for me as the spanner man and daughter as the very excited owner. There is no doubt your first car is a special moment in life.
Accepting these comments are made in respect of a small 1.4 engine car it's smooth with a very quiet engine, nice firm suspension but still comfortable with nice seats. Direct steering and nice short travel gears with light clutch (compared to Punto, C3 and others). Even at 109,000mls it feels tight.
The seller was *very* particular and every old part (obviously excluding routine discs/pads/filters) that had been changed was in the box of the new part with the date/mileage and reason for change marked on the box... all VW bits too. He'd given us the remainder of the last 4l Castrol Edge oil he'd put in it.
And the paperwork... never seen anything like it... every single invoice and bit of info from new inc all the old tax discs *and* even the counterfoil bits you tear the disc out of.
Fingers crossed the next few days don't throw up anything unexpected but it looks hopeful.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sat 5 Jul 14 at 10:03
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>>
>>
>> And the paperwork... never seen anything like it... every single invoice and bit of info
>> from new inc all the old tax discs *and* even the counterfoil bits you tear
>> the disc out of.
>>
>> Fingers crossed the next few days don't throw up anything unexpected but it looks hopeful.
>>
>>
>>
That's what swung it for me when I bought the Astra last November, I've got a bulging folder with every receipt, service bill and MoT certificate ever issued. So far so good, a back box and coil pack have been needed but they're fairly routine replacements in the life of the motorist. As you say, the unexpected can happen with the best maintained car but at least you know you've been given the best sort of fighting chance.
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Looks like your persistence has paid off Fen. Nice one!
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>> Even at 109,000mls it feels tight.
>>
It's only miles, they've got to count something...
>> The seller was *very* particular and every old part (obviously excluding routine discs/pads/filters) that had
>> been changed was in the box of the new part with the date/mileage and reason
>> for change marked on the box... all VW bits too. He'd given us the remainder
>> of the last 4l Castrol Edge oil he'd put in it.
>>
>> And the paperwork... never seen anything like it... every single invoice and bit of info
>> from new inc all the old tax discs *and* even the counterfoil bits you tear
>> the disc out of.
>>
Sounds like you have well and truly landed on your feet. Made me realise I let my "old" S60 go way too cheaply as it only had 95k on the clock ! All the paperwork was though too...
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>> Sounds like you have well and truly landed on your feet. Made me realise I
>> let my "old" S60 go way too cheaply as it only had 95k on the
>> clock ! All the paperwork was though too...
>>
UK is weird with mileage - colleague in Holland got a new Volvo S80. Turned out "new" was 160000Kms - 100K miles. Paid about 3x what it would have cost in the UK.
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>> UK is weird with mileage - colleague in Holland got a new Volvo S80. Turned
>> out "new" was 160000Kms - 100K miles. Paid about 3x what it would have cost
>> in the UK.
>>
I don't think we've ever let ourselves evolve from the era where an engine that had 60k on it was falling to bits.
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I've mentioned my friend before who makes a point of buying relatively 'young' in years cars but which have at least 100,000 miles on them. He seeks out one owner, main dealer serviced examples. Usually ex-fleet cars of course, often 3 years old or so.
He then proceeds to put roughly another 100,000 on them over the next 3 years. So far, it seems to work for him, he gets a relatively contemporary car very cheaply and by and large with normal maintenance they work very well.
His last but one car was a Mondeo TDCi estate which he took up to 228,000 before selling it and the only non-service item other than tyres etc was a new exhaust back box at about 200,000.
He sold that car to some friends of his son who wanted it to transport themselves as an aspiring rock band to gigs around Europe for a summer. It did that without problems and they in turn sold it on later that year still fully functional.
I've mentioned before that I've taken several cars to nigh on 200,000 before now without major drama. They last a lot longer than the general public perception would imagine if treated with respect, as in making sure services are done on time, not ragging clutches, avoiding unnecessary short journeys where the engine doesn't get warm, batteries don't recover and exhausts don't get hot/dry.
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Having been in the trade, I can tell you that a car dealer's home may be described as a house with driveway parking for at least half a dozen cars.
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If you have paid in (unknowingly) a wad of forgeries to the bank surely they should be rejected (seized) at the point of paying in. Any time after that is it not the banks responsibility? Don't they just shove them in the drawer with all the other cash?
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Small student life friendly 1st car for daughter. - Runfer D'Hills
