As regulars will know, I recently bought an Audi A5 Sportback. Well equipped with excellent leather sports seats amongst other things. Absolutely love the car, but recent economic events had made me think if it wise to spend so much on a car, when an 'ordinary' car would do the job just as well.
Got my answer today. I've had to travel over 400 miles for work commitments and was provided with a Ford Focus 1.6d 'Style'. My goodness, what a horrible car. I was absolutely knackered when I got back. The seats were horrendous. Narrow, hard and no support at all. The plastics were nasty and it was an awful place to spend time. On the motorway is droned and droned, the radio was rubbish and it had an awful resonance running through it. Hopless air-con.
The overall 'ambience' was just terrible. Felt like I'd done 4000 miles. On my return, dumped it back at work and climbed back into the Audi. What a difference. Drove home and really appreciated the comfy seats, solid build and the fantastic ability to just eat miles. It has left me in no doubt. There is no way I could live long term with a Focus, but I can happily live with the Audi and it was worth every penny.
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Funny that. Having driven my Outback for over three years and the XC90 for three months you would think that the S-Max would be a comedown; but its not. The ambience is as good if not better than the other two, everything works well its a great long distance cruiser.
You wonder if the Focus is built much more around a price than the S-Max and its Mondeo/Galaxy siblings.
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Ford have a horrible habit of equipping base spec Focuses with dreadful seats. They were doing it in 2002 when I ran an LX mk1 for a few years. Almost ruined what was otherwise a cracking car. After an hour I'd have lower back pain and a numb bum to rival that provided by the worst cinema seats. Yet the seats in the Zetec and Ghia models were a significant improvement.
I agree with Espada re the S-Max. My brother in law has just bought a 6 month old one in fully loaded Titanium X spec, and it is lovely inside. He chopped a 3yr old 320d in for it, and the Ford's interior is more comfortable, more refined, arguably more attractive in terms of design, has materials just as pleasing to the touch, and is every bit as well screwed together.
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I've never driven a Focus any distance so can't comment on those but it is odd how some cars just "fit" a person and others don't. We know that you must spend a lot of time behind the wheel with your job and I guess you must have developed a liking for some cars and a dread of others over the years ?
Different folks and different strokes and all that. Some swear by Volvo seats but the two 850s and the one 940 I had crippled me. A Citroen Xantia was very uncomfortable on long runs, an Audi A4 was just OK but nothing special. Comfortable cars for me have included a Rover 800 series, a Granada and a Sierra factory fitted with Recaros.
The Qashqai is OK but I know when I've done a journey and a Merc C-class estate was alright but not the best. A Galaxy was excellent but the Espace was preposterously uncomfortanble , like driving while sitting on a soft wobbly bar stool on a spring while holding a tea tray.
The three BMWs I've had ( two 3s and a 5 ) were very good but lacked lateral support and were a bit hard under the bum after a long run.
Best of all have been a string of Mondeos. I've driven several of them across Europe and back without so much as a twinge.
Must be to do with individual body shapes, weight, height, leg length etc. and one's prefered seating position I suppose.
Even a modest car can feel luxurious if it fits you properlly. Bit like shoes in that respect really.
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Tue 22 Jun 10 at 22:15
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I dont know that it is a premium thing at all, its just a combination of factors which make a car nice to own.
My Carina is a comfortable and for 1991, well screwed together. The seats make a huge difference. Mine have 4 different ways to adjust, there is good but not excessive side support and the material, velour, holds you in position far more than cloth does, so you physically need less effort to stay in the seat.
Add to that a soft ride and effortless steering, you end up with a car that is very relaxing to travel in.
Its actually just concentrating the design of the car on the basics first, which is the driver who surely to enjoy ownership, must be comfortable. Amazing that they often forget this. Its very car and model specific though.
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"Must be to do with individual body shapes, weight, height, leg length etc. and one's preferred seating position I suppose."
Absolutely, Humph. We're all different (thank goodness) but if one can generalise, I'd say that the Germans and Czechs (and Rover in their day) understand better than the French the need (well, my need, anyway) for adequate lumbar support.
The last 5 cars (VW, Audi, Geman taxi, VW and Skoda) have all been excellent, as is the old Z3. But of the seven otherwise very good reliable Renaults that I had before that, only the last two, whch had adjustable lumbar support, were really comfortable on a long journey. Two Peugeot 205s were very good, a 206 one of the worst ever.
I still remember fondly the combination of cosseting comfort and good support of the seats in my first car, the much-loved 1955 Austin A50, and also those in a 1968 Triumph 1300 that we had years ago. Both those cars were somehow more than the sum of their parts.
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>> a Merc C-class estate was alright but not the best.
Mine gives me lower back-pain and numb legs. Never had a problem in any other vehicle.
Talking of cars which just "fit", I find the seats in daughter's basic model SEAT Ibiza fit me perfectly and I'm instantly comfortable, on a par with the Recaro's in my Capri 30 years ago.
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Can you get Ibizas in Roman Bronze with Rostyles and and side stripes Bill ? Might be just the ticket !
:-)
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Horses for courses!
I maintain the two most comfortable vehicles I've ever driven over a long distance were:
1. Vauxhall Viva HA van, that had a solid seat with about 5mm of cushioning material and only adjusted fore-aft.
2. Austin Maxi, that felt like you were sitting on a bar-stool with an almost horizontal steering-wheel.
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>> Can you get Ibizas in Roman Bronze with Rostyles and and side stripes Bill ?
>>
I'll have you know I had the optional alloy wheels!
Funny how such things seem naff now - that car was a real head turner. My then girlfriend hated the way the car attracted so much attention.
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Count yourself lucky MLC. Last time I went to Ryton I got given a ...........................Proton :-(
Mind you I usually manage to tap the Driving school up for a 5 series :-)
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I agree with MLC. Although the last Focus I got was in 2001 I think. My Passat was in an accident and I got one within a few hours as a hire car. Horrendous IMO (original Focus).... swapped it because of hitting the mileage limit to an Astra. And within 24 hours I got an Alfa 156 Lusso 2.0 - that was nicer than both.
I was thinking my next car might be a Passat but I don't need such a big car. So the new for 2011 Jetta might be the one.
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You get what you pay for. In its price bracket the Focus is quite good.
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It has good driving dynamics on a twisty road and that's about it. Mine was noisy, poorly built, the finish was dire in hidden areas and the 1.6 petrol was gutless and thirsty. The seats were however excellent, for me at least. The boot was tiny for a so called family car. But the road noise on the motorway or over poor surfaces was awful!
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>> It has good driving dynamics on a twisty road and that's about it. Mine was
>> noisy, poorly built, the finish was dire in hidden areas and the 1.6 petrol was
>> gutless and thirsty. The seats were however excellent, for me at least. The boot was
>> tiny for a so called family car. But the road noise on the motorway or
>> over poor surfaces was awful!
>>
I've got no complaints about my 2003 2 litre Ghia. I'm not even complaining now that the rear springs have failed ~ commenting but not complaining.
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Pal of mine had a large, but basic spec, Audi as an inherited company car a few years ago.
He didn't like it much.
"It's like being in a country house with no furniture," he said.
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I agree with Humph about Volvo. I avoid our few remaining T5s like the plague. The seats cripple my back.
The Focus seats were the worst I've experienced. You could feel the frame through the seat material. It wasn't just the seats though. You felt like you were sat in a void, with just a steering wheel in front of you. The Audi dash and swithgear surround you. You don't have to reach for anything, it's just at your fingertips. The tinny feel to the Ford was also evident.
I don't consider myself a badge snob (my last car was a Peugeot), but I'm glad I paid the extra cash this time.
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Tell you what mlc, I'm prepared to swap my 2001 2.0 Ghia Focus estate with your A5 just for just a month to prove not all Foci are that bad.
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No thanks. After having my Audi for a month, you definitely won't want to swap back! :)
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I still cant forgive you for giving the stunningly pretty Pugeot the elbow. The focus was your punishment.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 23 Jun 10 at 10:18
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>> No thanks. After having my Audi for a month, you definitely won't want to swap
>> back! :)
That's a risk I'm prepared to take. Better make it 2 months though just in case :)
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>> I agree with Humph about Volvo. I avoid our few remaining T5s like the plague. The seats cripple my back.
Just goes to show that you can't cater for everyone. Volvo and Saab seats are supposed to be some of the best. My old Audi 80 Tdi had pig awful seats. They were entirely the wrong shape. The back of the seat pushed your shoulder blades forward, and left a hole at the bottom of the seat with no support for the small of your back, so I ended up with an aching back after half an hour of driving. Together with the incessant drone of the diesel at 70mph, I wasn't sad to see it go. Apparently the coupe of the same era was the same.
Car seat design is pretty woeful overall, I'd rather the manufacturers spent less money on automatic headlights, wipers, e.t.c and more on seats that are properly supportive, with more adjustment and standard lumber support.
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I've had 4 Foci (2 'old' style and 2 'new' style) and the newer generation's seats are terrible. One was an LX and the other a Zetec. The only difference I could tell was the Zetec seats were even harder and narrower. Gave me terrible backache.
Now I'm in a Golf - same price band as a Focus these days but the seats are much better. Shame as the Focus was definitely the better 'drive' of the two.
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>> Shame as the Focus was definitely the better 'drive' of the two.
I suppose the answer is to fit the recaro seats from the ST. Seems a lot of bother though. I doubt Cheddar has any problems with his. I havn't heard anyone complain about recaros yet, and if they do, well, better get on the running machine :-)
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>> I havn't heard
>> anyone complain about recaros yet, and if they do, well, better get on the running
>> machine :-)
Always reminds me of Martin Clunes' classic comment when he was on Top Gear. Something along the lines of:
"My car has Recaro seats . . . the problem is I don't have a Recaro a**e"
I have to say the Recaros in my mk4 Golf are absolutely superb. First car I've owned with them, and I'm converted.
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>> The Focus seats were the worst I've experienced. You could feel the frame through the
>> seat material. It wasn't just the seats though.
>> The tinny feel to the Ford was also evident.
What year and which variant?
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>> What year and which variant?
>>
2010 1.6d 'Style'
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Hi,
My wife has a 2003 zetec auto,which she loves,and I quite like except that the seats are AWFULL!...As has been said you can feel the frame/base throught it,for me very uncomfortable.
On the subject of "premium feel",I have an Avensis at the moment,while not being in the same class as an Audi A5,to me feels like a Limo compared to the Focus!...I think a classic case of "you get what you pay for".
I am seriously considering buying a small car,probably used,for economy reasons only,but I am very wary for the reasons above.Any suggestions for a comfortable,very economic,small car would be appreciated??
Cheers....Phil.
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My Focus was the low spec LX and I have a suspicion that cost-cutting extended to areas such as sound-proofing the cabin ( hardly any in the drivers footwell) and other such tricks less obvious than the single remote key and lack of fuel mpg computer etc. I researched the forums and many with the plusher versions seemed more than happy with noise levels. If I'd been slightly less stingy, I may have been a lot happier with a plusher model.
Remember Fords of yesteryear ranging from the incredibly basic Escort Popular through to the "luxury" Ghias. The Cortina 2000E was real luxury compared to the L version!
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Ford does indeed change the spec of soundproofing depending on your equipment level.
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I agree - I cant put my finger on it but premium cars do always feel that bit better to me. I have had 4 Audis over the years - an A4, A6, A4 cab and A3 - I have enjoyed all, but the mondeo I had inbetween was OK - just not nice.
Funny though, but the C5 I have now is a really nice place to be, and anyone I give a lift to agrees - think they are doing a really good job of changing their image / quality levels.
We have a C220 pool car at work - well specd with nav etc fitted, but didn't really like it much - didnt feel as expensive as it should have.
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I think this goes to show that those who insist that 'a Saab is just a Vauxhall', or whatever, are missing the point. A suitcase may do an admirable job of keeping your pants off the tarmac but if the handle digs into your fingers you won't look forward to travelling with it.
One thing the 'premium' makers do is devote more care to designing the interior, and give buyers more choice in how it looks and feels. (OK, that's two things.) This feels to the user like being taken care of, if not actually by the car but by the people who designed it, and most humans respond to that.
Point for point - climate control, CD audio etc. - our Toyota family bus has everything my Volvo has and more, but none of it is as well laid out, or as satisfying to use. It also has doors that close with a sound like putting the lid on a dustbin. None of this may matter in terms of providing safe, reliable transport; but most driving consists of journeys we have to, rather than want to do, and a pleasant interior makes that a lot more bearable.
It doesn't have to have a fancy badge. Citroën makes cars that are nice to sit in,although their ergonomics are unconvincing. Fords have good ergonomics but not always the nicest interiors. But it does matter.
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WDB - speaking as someone who moved from an Audi to a C5 it is a really nice place to be, however they have lost a few points on the ergonomics front. Few odd buttons either to small, or dont quite easily fall to hand. The fixed hub is good once you get used to it, and the C5 is a big improvement over previous Cits, but still a little furth to go to match some of the premium brands.
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>> our Toyota family bus has everything my Volvo has and more, but none of it is as well laid out, or as satisfying to use
When I test drove an Avensis in 2007, it just didn't feel well designed to me. The interior was nowhere near as good as an Audi. I could not get an Audi on the company scheme back then (or any VAG group cars) so opted for a Mazda6. A nicer car compared to the Avensis for me at least. And it costs me more per month to have this.
And on exterior looks alone my wife did not like the Avensis either. I'm not talking huge money but maybe £25/month difference.
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I think 25 quid a month extra for something you like rather than tollerate is money well spent given you will use it most days for the next 3 years
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... four years. So yes money well spent. If I could swap the car now I could get an Audi A4 for similar money though :-(
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MLC - I am green with envy! I really like the Audi A5 Sportback.
It ticks all the boxes for me!
May I ask which engine/gearbox/trim combo you have?
I think that they are all pretty much winners, the only concern being the Multitronic gearbox for me.
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I hope you factored in the 2 year pay freeze ;-)
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Londoner- 2.0 diesel, manual SE.
Had an A3 S-Line and the suspension was so hard it only lasted ten weeks and was changed for something that you could actually live with. The SE suspension is still firm enough to give good handling, but soft enough that it doesn't drive your spine through your mouth.
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mlc, many thanks for taking the trouble to reply to my question - I value the feedback from an actual owner. Your reply is very reassuring, I must say.
I think that the combo that you have chosen for your car represents the "sweet spot" in terms of performance vs economy, and ride vs handling. A cracking car with a huge feel-good factor.
Now, if I could only persuade higher management that we need to change cars again. . . . .
:-)
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I didn't tell my 'higher management'. My car is my castle...no female opinion allowed.
The car just appeared on the drive (although if I had bought one the same colour as the A3, then it's unlikely she would have noticed!)
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I have found the seats in my E-class extremely comfortable over a number of long European motorway drives.
Conversely before that I drove a C4 Grand Picasso Exclusive whose seats gave me instant back pain in the lower back, such that I could no longer drive it. This was really annoying because I had tested the car for a day but in a lower trim level (VTR+) and found the seats fine. I didn't realise the 'superior' trim level would have such inferior seats!
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>> I have found the seats in my E-class extremely comfortable over a number of long
>> European motorway drives.
>>
I don't know if they still do it, but I always thought it quite bizarre that many Mercedes had a "comfort seat" option, as if the standard ones are uncomfortable!
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are A5s still unreliable or have Audi got their act together on this yet?
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>> are A5s still unreliable or have Audi got their act together on this yet?
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According to the recent results of the JD Power Survey in "What Car?" the answer is no.
The report says:
"What's more of a shock is that Audi dealers rated as only average, while the A5's quality and reliability were worse still. The CD player, speakers and hands-free system were particular problems."
Still, the A5 has qualities to compensate for these problems, and is ranked a very good 20th overall out of 104 cars, and 3rd in its class behind Lexus and Mercedes. (And ahead of the BMW 3 series that "What Car" loves so much).
(I wonder if you know which car came last in the survey?)
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I think it was the Ford Ka - and I can't think why. SWMBO had two and elder daughter had one, and all were reliable, nippy and a hoot to drive - in other words they did exactly what they were designed to do.
Ours were bought new, and it may be that they don't wear well (I can rememeber reading about rusted-in plugs, and early Kas weren't galvanised). But you still see plenty of old Kas around.
Anyone here had a bad experience?
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My wife's was a gem until the Fire Service cut the roof off. Sort of spoiled it that did......
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>> I think it was the Ford Ka - and I can't think why. SWMBO had
>> two and elder daughter had one, and all were reliable, nippy and a hoot to
>> drive - in other words they did exactly what they were designed to do.
My sister bought an early (98) Ka as a first car about 2 yrs ago for £600. Spent maybe £200 in upkeep over two years, and got £500 back a couple of months ago when she bought herself a 6 month old Corsa. A few niggles, but cost buttons to run overall, and was fun to drive in a way that such a cheap, low powered car really shouldn't have been.
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That premium feel! - Netsur
