Motoring Discussion > Telematics Comming For All? Tax / Insurance / Warranties
Thread Author: zippy Replies: 23
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 Sun 18 May 14 11:29 
 Telematics Comming For All? - zippy
tinyurl.com/msdwb5j

(Links to the Telegraph)

I am not keen on the idea. I don't want an insurance company knowing where I am going and this is likely to be hackable, the newspapers tracking where celebrities go etc.

The govt may ask for a copy of the info a issue speeding tickets based on the data or use it to accuse you of being somewhere and therefore responsible for a crime because the telematics puts you in the locale at the appropriate time.
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 Sun 18 May 14 13:19 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Slidingpillar
Interesting. So I'd have paid lots for my now sold Morgan 4/4 (still got three wheeler - absolutely not for sale).

The 4/4 had done 117 quite legally (airfield runway), taken corners at 100% (competition), spun wheels (competition). Car was never used to it's capabilities on the road as other drivers would often see it, think old car, and pull out in front etc.
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 Sun 18 May 14 14:02 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Armel Coussine
With luck the proposed legislation will have such a dire effect on new car sales that it will have to be abandoned.

No sane person would buy a new car fitted with a tachograph. Perhaps one or two here would, but no one sane.
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 Sun 18 May 14 15:37 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Boxsterboy
I predicted that this would happen with the wider voluntary use of black boxes, and there's probably nothing we can do about it.
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 Sun 18 May 14 15:51 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Armel Coussine
Big Brother. Creepy. I predict people will devise ingenious ways of destroying black boxes. I predict more mimsing too.

'Cheer up Cully, you'll soon be dead,
It's a short life and a gay one!'
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 Sun 18 May 14 15:47 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Robin O'Reliant
>>
>> No sane person would buy a new car fitted with a tachograph. Perhaps one or
>> two here would, but no one sane.
>>

Unfortunately you eventually reach the tipping point beyond which you have no choice, rather like catalytic converters and DPFs. Stuff's invented, manufactured, fitted firstly to just a few makes but eventually made compulsory.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Sun 18 May 14 at 15:48
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 Sun 18 May 14 16:49 
 Telematics Comming For All? - zippy
>>>No sane person would buy a new car fitted with a tachograph. Perhaps one or two here would, but no one sane.

I guess most people would not even realise this was the case. ("Sheeple")
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 Sun 18 May 14 16:57 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Bromptonaut
>> I guess most people would not even realise this was the case. ("Sheeple")

If people don't care because they think it won't happen to them or they've "nothing to hide" and want the cut in premium then that's right.

As a group of people self selecting for an interest in motoring C4P membership is unlikely to be representative of wider society.
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 Sun 18 May 14 16:58 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Fenlander
The simple fact is a black box in my car would mean I'd not have a licence left now.

Yet I have a totally clean licence and low insurance premiums because I'm very safe.

I hate the thought this might be introduced.
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 Sun 18 May 14 18:57 
 Telematics Comming For All? - No FM2R
When the original speed camera threads started on HJ, I said at the time that all the protest was nonsense. There is *no* point in arguing about and trying to disrupt the enforcement, or make it less efficient.

Dumb limits are the issue.

As with speed cameras, enforcement will creep closer and closer to perfect. What you want to be worried about is the law which is being enforced.

For example, there is no point crying because there is a camera in a 20mph limit and the limit is being enforced. Aside from anything else its a very dubious moral point.

You should be up in arms that there *IS* a 20mph limit. Take the dumb ass law away and stop worrying about enforcement.

Ultimately tracking is entirely possible without access to equipment within your vehicle. Law enforcement will build and are building such capability for admirable reasons. Then, when faced with the running costs, they look to recoup those costs by renting out the facility, or the data. First to other agencies, and then commercially.

Its coming. Get over it. Ignore remote tracking, however it is done. You can't stop it.

Fight the dumb laws and protect the credibility of the not-dumb ones.

Insofar as your insurance is concerned, don't worry about it. Ultimately those who are the lowest risk will pay less. If 50yr olds with no box are a better risk that 20 yr olds with a box, then their insurance will be cheaper. Ultimately it will primarily make a difference when all other factors are equal.

Unless you are not actually a good driver, and you've just been lucky until now.

Perhaps you've always driven 10% over the speed limit and never had an accident and you quite genuinely believe you are a better driver based on this evidence. But if you're actually not any good, and you have just been lucky, and statistically people who drive 10% over the speed limit are a worse risk, then this system will probably cause you to pay more.

On the other hand, if you are basically a good driver and have been unlucky, this system will probably ultimately cause you to pay less.

Consequently I rather suspect that the primary danger from enforcing a sensible law is that the lucky will pay more and the genuinely good will pay less.

Again rather pushing towards the argument that the issue is not enforcement, its dumb ass laws.
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 Tue 20 May 14 22:23 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Harleyman
There's rather more to telematics than just speeding. Our company's had them fitted for a while, and they're just starting to get into the science of making us all "perfect drivers"; the kit not only measures speed, but also enthusiastic acceleration, harsh braking, length of time spent at tickover, etc. The official goal is optimum fuel consumption, laudable I suppose but likely to be a complete PITA in the future, once they've got us all dancing to their tune.

Ironically I'm starting to find that one of the biggest problems with keeping to the NSL on a single carriageway road is tiredness brought on by boredom.

I suspect that I belong to the last generation of HGV drivers for whom the job has been, to a certain extent, appealing because once out of the gate you are your own gaffer. You may recall our old friend GB complaining about "steering wheel attendants" and he was quite right.

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 Wed 21 May 14 04:21 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Pat
Likewise HM, my old firm is just in the process of having them fitted to 104 vehicles and have appointed a designated person to interpret the data gained from telematics.

My feelings on the last generation of HGV drivers are much like yours but strangely the younger drivers on the firm are looking forward to learning how their driving styles can be improved and how much more fuel bonus they can earn.

It's called progress I think, and us oldies need to keep an open mind!

Pat
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 Wed 21 May 14 18:15 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Harleyman
>> Likewise HM, my old firm...... have appointed a designated person to interpret the data gained from telematics.
>>

>> It's called progress I think, and us oldies need to keep an open mind!
>>


His opposite number on my fleet is coming out with me tomorrow. Former driver at our place, good at his job but well aware of the fact. My fellow drivers are running a book on which of the eleven farms I'm delivering to tomorrow will end up finding him in the slurry pit after I've left! ;-)

I don't mind progress; recent inventions like the i-shift gearbox and cruise control are a godsend when used properly, and for all that I loved my old ERF's I wouldn't want to go back to driving them every day. I do feel though that the requirement for vocational drivers to be able to think for themselves and solve problems (which is how they gain experience) is gradually being sapped away by an ever-increasing level of surveillance, rules and regulations.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Wed 21 May 14 at 18:19
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 Wed 21 May 14 18:20 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Pat
Must be the same system then, ours is Fleetboard and the old TM has been moved sideways to do the job.

We're taking bets on who asks him to demonstrate a blind side reverse without slipping the clutch or revving the engine:)

Pat
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 Wed 21 May 14 18:28 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Manatee

>> Ironically I'm starting to find that one of the biggest problems with keeping to the
>> NSL on a single carriageway road is tiredness brought on by boredom.

40mph on A roads? Not just the lorry driver who gets bored.

Used to be mainly the supermarket lorries, most of the rest seemed happy to do 50. I had noticed the 'compliance' spreading.
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 Wed 21 May 14 18:32 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Pat
Trackers and telematics to blame for that, Manatee, and not the driver.

Disciplinaries (is there such a word outside of work?) abound if the speed limit is exceeded and fuel bonuses (income) drop, so please don't blame us.

On the up side we are supposed to be saving the planet:)

Pat
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 Wed 21 May 14 18:37 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Manatee
Not blaming drivers at all Pat.

The limit is the problem, if there is one.
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 Wed 21 May 14 20:13 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Harleyman

>> 40mph on A roads? Not just the lorry driver who gets bored.
>>
>> Used to be mainly the supermarket lorries, most of the rest seemed happy to do
>> 50. I had noticed the 'compliance' spreading.
>>

Unofficially, the police are generally happy with 50 as well, so long as road conditions allow. My theory has long been that at 50 mph, sensible car drivers realise that they are making decent if not spectacular progress and will wait until a safe place occurs before they overtake. At 40mph, however, it is easy to become frustrated and attempt an overtake where it simply is not safe.
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 Wed 21 May 14 12:13 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Fursty Ferret
When I first passed my test these boxes were just being introduced. My observation at the time was that they really loaded the premium if you were driving during "dangerous" times, which in particular included 11pm - 5am.

I don't perceive these times as dangerous - the roads are empty - but since at least one half my commute generally takes place between these hours my insurance premium would be disproportionately and unfairly loaded.
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 Wed 21 May 14 12:25 
 Telematics Comming For All? - zippy
As a a company car driver. It is the potential intrusion on every day lives that concerns me.

If my employer subscribes to such a system to reduce costs and I am recorded travelling home from my girlfriends at 3 am (a likely high premium time) to get home ready for work the next day, will they review the data and moan at me for increasing their premiums - I don’t see why I should have to justify myself.

Alternatively they may ask me to avoid travelling at rush hour but that would mean leaving clients later and getting home later – not a good thing either.
Last edited by: zippy on Wed 21 May 14 at 12:25
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 Wed 21 May 14 17:22 
 Telematics Coming For All? - WillDeBeest
...If my employer subscribes to such a system to reduce costs and I am recorded travelling home from my girlfriends at 3 am...will they review the data and moan at me for increasing their premiums...

...or tell your wife?
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 Wed 21 May 14 17:40 
 Telematics Coming For All? - zippy
>>...or tell your wife?

:-)
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 Wed 21 May 14 13:01 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Bromptonaut
>> When I first passed my test these boxes were just being introduced. My observation at
>> the time was that they really loaded the premium if you were driving during "dangerous"
>> times, which in particular included 11pm - 5am.
>>
>> I don't perceive these times as dangerous - the roads are empty

If you passed your test at 17 then, statistically, they were times when as a young male student you were at risk at those times. Aside from risk of DUI there would be an elevated possibility of a car full of high spirited young men, competitive behaviour with others etc.

One would sincerely hope that now, X years on and given your current occupation, any weighting would be long gone.
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 Wed 21 May 14 17:11 
 Telematics Comming For All? - Alastairw
The after 11pm loading still exists, even for people in late middle age, or at least it does for one of the ladies in my choir. I think its because there is more chance of being hit by one of the aforesaid drink or drug driving teenagers later at night.
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