Motoring Discussion > Modern Q cars	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: legacylad	Replies: 77

Tue 13 May 14 23:46   Modern Q cars - legacylad

Does such a thing exist these days ? Virtually all modern cars can cruise comfortably at motorways speeds and a bit, and discussing this with friends most high performance cars have flared arches and quad exhausts which give the game away. I think most Golfs look pretty similar so a top of the range Gti could be a decent Q car, as could a Benz E class 350 blue tech estate and an Audi S4 estate. Anything else inconspicuous looking which could really pick up its skirts and go when the situation demands? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 00:03   Modern Q cars - Armel Coussine

A suitably slightly-shabby Skoda Superb VRS with part-time 4wd and a chipped V6 might be all right don't you think? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 05:50   Modern Q cars - Fenlander

Well the police seem to think so. I mentioned the other day a boring looking unmarked maroon police one one that pulls folks on the A1(M) in Cambs. Yesterday saw a guy pulled on the M11 south by a plain white one and last night same (or similar) white one with blues on passed us as fast as we've been passed on the M11 north... I'm guessing he was doing 130+. The whoosh of air and tyres was quite startling. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 06:53   Modern Q cars - WillDeBeest

Last time I looked, which wasn't long ago, MB would still sell you an E500 that doesn't look very different from the airport taxi-edition E220. Should be quick enough for most purposes. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 09:07   Modern Q cars - legacylad

I never knew that such a Skoda Superb, with a 3.6 V6 engine and 4x4 existed. Very heavy depreciation I would imagine, and I'm sure the handling could be sorted! Someone I know has just taken delivery of a BM 328. Just a 4 pot 2 litre despite the badging but a fair turn of speed and decent mpg. Looks like a cooking 2.0d. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 09:56   Modern Q cars - Alanovich

>> I never knew that such a Skoda Superb, with a 3.6 V6 engine and 4x4 >> existed. Me neither. Gots to add that to the fantasy list. Probably more sensible than a Phaeton. Probably..... Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 10:43   Modern Q cars - ToMoCo

Lexus GS 450h is still top of my list for next car. Near supercar performance in a bland 4 door saloon Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 10:50   Modern Q cars - R.P.

My 325 looked like a bog standard 320 - When selling it I described it as an iron fist in a velvet glove. My FiL has a new shape 328 - twin turbo is a very brisk and economical motor (he did manage to get it down to 17mpg on a test drive but returns over 40 in the real world). My V40 is a beast. All the V40s have a twin exhaust (cooking ones have round ones mine a pair of oval ones) - it isn't on steroids....stunningly fast car and that five pot sounds proper...... Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 10:57   Modern Q cars - ToMoCo

Legacylad - >> Someone I know has just taken delivery of a BM 328. Just a 4 pot >> 2 litre despite the badging but a fair turn of speed and decent mpg. Looks >> like a cooking 2.0d. >> R.P. - >> My FiL has a new shape 328 >> - twin turbo is a very brisk and economical motor Just looked this up. I think we have a winner! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 11:17   Modern Q cars - Gromit

Didn't Skoda set a new speed record for forced induction engines with a (heavily?) tweaked 2 litre TFSi in an Octavia hatch? Yes, got it, from www.honestjohn.co.uk/10-years-of-skoda-vrs/10-years-of-skoda-vrs-models/: "...a modified production Octavia vRS hatch, prepared by Skoda UK, recently smashed the previous record for a 2.0-litre forced induction production car when it registered an official record speed of 227.080mph at the 2011 Bonneville Speed Week." Surely that's the Q car to beat all Q cars - especially if you had it in a 'normal' Skoda colour. Say, silver with a black interior, and the badges removed. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 11:27   Modern Q cars - ToMoCo

Isn't taking the performance model from a range (modified at that) cheating slightly in terms of a Q car? Although I agree, the vRS can be quite subtle looking. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 11:40   Modern Q cars - Lygonos

Was sitting behind a 54-plate Audi A3 this monring in a queue of traffic and was quite surprised how much it looked like a regular cooking model despite wearing the tag "3.2 Quattro" on its rump. Q-car indeed. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 11:41   Modern Q cars - Gromit

Maybe it is...if we're to disallow performance variants (though when, for example, do the various power outputs and SE/M-sport/M variants of BMWs become 'performance'?) I'd nominate the Subaru diesel boxer. Pretty much any Subaru with the diesel boxer, in fact. It produces the same torque as the old H6 petrol engine, and the 4WD seems to allow you hold onto much of that output through bends. I tried a diesel Forester 6 speed manual that could reach 70 in 3rd and still wasn't running out of huff - only I wasn't foolish enough to try carrying that through an s-bend in someone else's car. It was great fun though, in a holymotherofgodthisisfast way :-) EDIT: As the quattro gets a mention above, the 3 litre TDI as used in the Allroad A6s has to be in with a shout too... Last edited by: Gromit on Wed 14 May 14 at 11:42 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 13:29   Modern Q cars - Lygonos

Of course the current 2 litre turbo petrol Forester has the same torque output as the turbo diesel... ...but carries it through to 6,000rpm rather than needing a shift at 4,000rpm. And the 3.6 petrol that was briefly available in the Outback looks identical to the lesser models but chugs out 260PS. It's a pity the Kizashi was a sales disaster - the chassis can handle way more than the 170hp 2.4 - apparently it was engineered so that a 250+hp V6 would be in a Halo model. More of a q-car than a Q-car, but for 12-13 grand for a fully loaded 4wd mini-exec can't really grumble (except that headroom is tight due to the sunroof I virtually never use) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 13:35   Modern Q cars - Alanovich

I likes the sound of it, Lygs. Really do. Pleased you're happy with it. When they hit the 5k (price) mark they might be in with a chance of replacing the wife's Golf (the TC auto gearbox of which is starting to feel like it might let go in the none too distant...........). Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 15:30   Modern Q cars - Armel Coussine

>> I never knew that such a Skoda Superb, with a 3.6 V6 engine and 4x4 >> existed. >> Me neither. Nor me really, but one could easily have one put together. All it takes is money and the right people. I notice that the new Skoda Superb body is ugly and garish looking. So my Superb dream q car would have to be based on the original Superb which is good-looking. I've said before that a friend has an Octavia 1.8T with the trick 4wd. I've driven it a few times and it's a terrific motor. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 15:50   Modern Q cars - Focusless

Our N reg Mondeo V6, with plastic wheel trims and (IIRC) just a discreet '24v' decal behind the front wheels to indicate its extra cylinders, was faster (and thirstier!) than it looked, in a refined sort of way. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 16:16   Modern Q cars - Boxsterboy

I had a Citroen Xantia Activa a few years back. 'Only' a 2 litre light pressure turbo petrol, so not outstanding quick in a straight line ... but round the bends ... with the anti roll suspension ... Ooh la la! I had great fun chasing a Lancia Delta Integrale once around some twisty roads that I know well, and he actually gave up trying to shake me off. I bet he was wondering how a 1.9D could keep up because, subtleties aside, that's what it looked like. Nothing else like it, suspension-wise, and definitely a car for an enthusiasts bucket list! Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 07:48   Modern Q cars - MD

The manual seemed quick. The Auto was/is a sluggard. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 17:43   Modern Q cars - Avant

The Superb (hatch or estate) can be had with a 3.6 litre V6 petrol engine although it isn't badged vRS. At a bit over £30,000 it's quite a lot of car for the money, but depreciation must be horrendous. And I wonder how much faster it is in practice than my Octavia vRS (petrol), which costa a lot iless. The vRS badges are quite small and discreet so I think we can claim the Octavia as a Q-car, especially as an estate. The other advantage over the Superb V6 is that on a brisk trip back from west Wales on Monday the Octavia's trip computer (which is accurate) showed 40 mpg. Last edited by: Avant on Wed 14 May 14 at 17:45 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 17:55   Modern Q cars - Armel Coussine

Focusless reminds us of the V6 Mondeo which can look very cooking but be made to go well. There's a Vauxhall equivalent or equivalents well short of Holden snorting-monster territory. I saw a very nice plain pre-Vectra (I think) two-door coupé just once, with a discreet V6 badge on the tail. The only Subaru I've driven was my brother-in-law's non-turbo petrol Forester in New Zealand. It was very smooth and went well, far too well for NZ's wimpish speed limits. But I've always liked flat fours and sixes and some of the modern Subaru saloon/estate things are very tasty, the more sporting ones revving to 7,000 rpm and going as you would expect. Son-in-law's mother drives a flat-six estate which is exceptionally refined. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 18:37   Modern Q cars - ....

Calibra V6. Two door Cavalier, looked OK when considered against other cars of the time thinking Ford Probe. Modern Q car S60 T6, looks like 1.6 diesel, has 306PS and part time 4wd hidden away. Last edited by: gmac on Wed 14 May 14 at 18:39 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 18:44   Modern Q cars - Runfer D'Hills

Ah the Calibra ! Pub landlord special, spiritual successor to the Granada coupe. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 18:47   Modern Q cars - ....

I knew a pub landlord who had a Ford Probe. I always wished his name was Alan so I could make an anagram of his name on the bootlid. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 18:53   Modern Q cars - Runfer D'Hills

Yeah, what is it with pub landlords and dodgy coupes? Sovereign rings too come to that. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 19:07   Modern Q cars - ....

That was the 90s, more likely to see a Nissan Pathfinder in the Leadburn car park these days. Last edited by: gmac on Wed 14 May 14 at 19:08 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 19:09   Modern Q cars - Runfer D'Hills

Yeah that would ring true actually. Or any of those 4x4 pick up thingies. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 19:32   Modern Q cars - Lygonos

>>That was the 90s, more likely to see a Nissan Pathfinder in the Leadburn car park these days. Cavaliers are banned since 2005 news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4431524.stm Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 16 May 14 16:30   Modern Q cars - Alanovich

>> Pub landlord special, spiritual successor to the Granada coupe. >> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201403172585699/ *WANT* Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 16 May 14 16:37   Modern Q cars - Armel Coussine

>> *WANT* Yes, a bargain. But the saloon was better proportioned and just as good. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 16 May 14 16:44   Modern Q cars - spamcan61

Funnily enough I saw a Vauxhall Royale Coupe - effectively the same car IIRC - in Fleet the other day, haven't seen one for years. My Carlton estate with the same engine was lovely to drive, loads of low end torque. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 18:44   Modern Q cars - TheManWithNoName

Not sure about a Q car but there is a Z car on Autotrader tinyurl.com/kxm6l6n Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 19:52   Modern Q cars - mikeyb

Phaeton W12 must rate as a Q car given it looks like a passat Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 May 14 20:23   Modern Q cars - spamcan61

Speaking of which Passat W8 4-motion Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 May 14 13:20   Modern Q cars - DP

Mazda 3 MPS www.smartcarsguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/mazda-3-mps-2015.jpg Really doesn't look like 256 bhp and 0-62 in 6.1. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 16 May 14 20:22   Modern Q cars - IJWS14

Seen a couple of this candidate in the last couple of days, never new it existed, Volvo S80 4WD 4.4 V8 . . . . . . . Not seen one in the UK, seen 2 in France since Tuesday, sure the V8 badge would come off. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 16 May 14 20:28   Modern Q cars - R.P.

I toyed with the idea of removing the "T5" badge from mine - replacing it with some skinny-latte "blue" or "green" eco badge nonsense. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 16 May 14 21:50   Modern Q cars - Runfer D'Hills

I suspect that badges mean more to the owner than the observer. I'd be pretty familiar with what the badges indicate on makes of cars I've either had or coveted but don't ask me what the ones on most other cars mean. I remember someone on the 'other' forum moaning bitterly that their Mazda or Toyota or something Japanese anyway had been delivered without a particular boot badge which apparently suggested somethingorother about it. I recall thinking at the time that was more than a bit anal. My pal has an AMG badged Mercedes. His wife insists it's an MG Mercedes... Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 16 May 14 22:40   Modern Q cars - rtj70

>> I remember someone on the 'other' forum moaning bitterly that their Mazda or Toyota or something Japanese anyway had been delivered without a particular boot badge When I got a Golf GTI in 1999 it came with the wrong badge at the rear. It should have had a red I I seem to recall - not all silver letters. Garage swapped them when it was in for some remedial work (new gearbox).... it was stolen. Off to test drive a few more cars tomorrow.... :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 16 May 14 23:31   Modern Q cars - Runfer D'Hills

I got the Gti badge taken off my Golf. Had the speak softly but carry a big stick view of life at the time. As opposed to now when I really try very hard and mostly succeed not to give a toss what anyone thinks about my car. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 May 14 15:28   Modern Q cars - Armel Coussine

Can we have a bit less of this stereotyping of people who might want to drive discreet workmanlike V6 coupés? I don't mind being called a lounge lizard and dodgy pub landlord - the reality is far worse than either - but there may be sensitive souls who are upset and wounded by it. Think of all the shy new members with Ford Probes and Cougars and things who may have been sent scuttling away with their tails between their legs before they have dared post anything. This is a harsh and brutal website. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 May 14 16:33   Modern Q cars - ....

Don't be selective, you're forgetting the wannabe undertakers in estate cars, the other lounge lizards in saloons and the deaf as a post hatchback drivers. Right who have we missed out? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 May 14 18:06   Modern Q cars - Dave_

Often the second from top-of-the-range model can be a proper Q-car. BMW 130i Merc C350 various V6 Audis Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 May 14 22:20   Modern Q cars - legacylad

Talking of which I was stuck behind a nondescript 1 series BM for several miles today. Pootling along the A65 twist Skipton & Settle at a steady 35/40 in a NSL with a long queue behind. Finally when it was my turn to get past it was badged a 135! Jeez , what a waste. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 May 14 22:23   Modern Q cars - Runfer D'Hills

Give you odds on the driver has more points than prizes then. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 May 14 22:49   Modern Q cars - legacylad

'Twas a not so yummy mummy with her face pressed inches from the steering wheel. Almost as bad as the similar persona going in the opposite direction 8 hours earlier crawling along in her Ford MPV thingy. Do these people not look in their mirrors and think of either pulling over or increasing their speed? Fortunately I don't get road rage but like to howl past, when the opportunity arises, giving it seven bells in second. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 16 May 14 22:14   Modern Q cars - Mike H

I like to think my Saab 9-5 Aero estate is a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing. With 265bhp and 420Nm of torque, which is more than most diesels have, it can pick up its skirts pretty well, and lift the nose at 90mph+ (in Germany of course). But it looks pretty much a bog standard family estate unless you know what you're looking at.....provides hours of amusement! Last edited by: Mike H on Fri 16 May 14 at 22:14 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 07:53   Modern Q cars - MD

Vectra 2.8 estate. Ex-plod example for sale in Cambridgeshire right now. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 10:58   Modern Q cars - ToMoCo

Vectra? Modern? 404 Error Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 13:03   Modern Q cars - VxFan

>> Vectra? Modern? Made up until 2008, so not exactly that old, and newer than some of the cars mentioned in this thread. Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 20 May 14 at 13:03 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 14:49   Modern Q cars - WillDeBeest

But isn't a Q-car one that you can drive rapidly when it suits you, without its very appearance the rest of the time making people think you're a bit of a knob? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 14:59   Modern Q cars - Alanovich

Thistle doo. www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201404283750680/ Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 20 May 14 15:02   Modern Q cars - WillDeBeest

That looks like it was designed by someone who'd heard a V70 described over the phone. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 20 May 14 15:12   Modern Q cars - Alanovich

Maybe so, but the epitome of a Q Car to me. No-one would ever know it's a beast, it'd slip right under the radar. Lovely. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 20 May 14 15:14   Modern Q cars - Focusless

Not many details in the ad, but wiki suggests 276hp? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 15:25   Modern Q cars - Alanovich

Indeed. It's a Skyline Estate essentially. Woof woof. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 16:47   Modern Q cars - Armel Coussine

I have to say Alanović that this jalopy ticks most of my boxes too. There's a lot to be said for it. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 09:21   Modern Q cars - Alanovich

>> I have to say Alanović that this jalopy ticks most of my boxes too. There's >> a lot to be said for it. >> And there's me thinking I never know what the hell I'm talking about. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 19:47   Modern Q cars - ToMoCo

>> Not many details in the ad, but wiki suggests 276hp? >> A result of the 'gentleman's agreement' for JDM cars not to top 280hp. It can easily be made more than that. Yes, a real Q car and bland in a way only the Japanese can do. I love it. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 09:27   Modern Q cars - J Bonington Jagworth

"JDM" ? The 280hp limit is presumably for embarrassment limitation... Love the Stagea, despite the daft name - few people would have a clue what it was! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 09:35   Modern Q cars - ToMoCo

>> "JDM" ? >> >> The 280hp limit is presumably for embarrassment limitation... >> >> Love the Stagea, despite the daft name - few people would have a clue what >> it was! >> Japanese Domestic Market. "embarrassment limitation"? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 12:30   Modern Q cars - J Bonington Jagworth

JDM - obvious when it's pointed out! :-) Why put a limit on horsepower except to protect our manufacturers? When the Nissan Skyline started to be imported, I seem to remember reading a track test where it outperformed several European GT cars, including a 911. Re-reading your original, I'm not sure now who's protecting whom, though. Who is the 'gentlemen's agreement' with? Last edited by: J Bonington Jagworth on Wed 21 May 14 at 12:32 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 13:03   Modern Q cars - ToMoCo

>> Re-reading your original, I'm not sure now who's protecting whom, though. Who is the 'gentlemen's >> agreement' with? >> A 'gentlemen's agreement' between the Japanese manufacturers to protect the Japanese people from themselves, I suppose. Limits of 280 hp (may have in fact been 276hp) and speed limiters set at around 118mph. The power agreement was in force from late 80's untill around 2004. Although the limitations on power have been scrapped, I believe if you import even a new car today - eg. GTR it will still be limited to 118mph. The limits were set by the Japanese Car Manufacturers Association, but only for domestic market, they exported some cars exceeding that, it's just we didn't officially get all the crazy (and there were loads) turbo Toyota's and Nissan's due to import/export quotas. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 17:35   Modern Q cars - J Bonington Jagworth

"we didn't officially get all the crazy (and there were loads) turbo Toyota's and Nissan's due to import/export quotas" Spoilsports. I imagine the 350Z is pretty tweakable. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 23:15   Modern Q cars - ToMoCo

> Spoilsports. I imagine the 350Z is pretty tweakable. >> Being naturally aspirated, for any real gains you'd be looking at super charging! Not cheap! But the 3.5 v6 is pretty sweet as standard anyway. There can be merit in importing a Z (better spec) but there is a decent choice of UK cars, so not sure I'd bother. The real gems are the ones like the Stagea and any number of forced induction Toyota's - Soarer, Chaser, Mark II, Blit, Mark X, Aristo, etc, etc. All fantastic value for money, the Supras and Skylines command a bit of a premium. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 23:42   Modern Q cars - Lygonos

>>A 'gentlemen's agreement' .. Limits of 280 hp The 280 PS limit was almost certainly being breached by Nissan. Thr R32, R33 and R34 Skylines were all rated at 276hp, despite each subsequent model having a higher torque output and able to run to higher rpm (which = more power). R34 reputedly has been tested at 320-330bhp in stock form even in the Japanese home market. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 21:54   Modern Q cars - Mike H

>> That looks like it was designed by someone who'd heard a V70 described over the >> phone. >> Spot on, made me chuckle that did! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 04:05   Modern Q cars - Falkirk Bairn

FAO Alanovic! Your link to the Stagea showed a Postcode that rang a bell! Ashgrove Ave - Wimpey flats - my son bought one new there in 1999? nice flat! - small world!! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 09:20   Modern Q cars - Alanovich

I didn't include my postcode in the link, so the one you're seeing will be coming from some cached place on your computer I reckon. Never heard of Ashgrove Ave. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 17:00   Modern Q cars - Stuartli

>>...that you can drive rapidly when it suits you...>> That's the case with my VW Jetta Sports TSi 170. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 21:31   Modern Q cars - VxFan

>> its very appearance the rest of the time making people think you're a bit of a knob. Remind me what piece of crap you drive so I can be equally insulting about its driver when it gets a mention in a thread. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 20 May 14 22:24   Modern Q cars - WillDeBeest

Tee hee. Now show me what in what I wrote is insulting to you. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 20 May 14 23:06   Modern Q cars - retgwte

The Suzuki Swift Sport is an amazing car. Most people take it for an ordinary hatchback, which it sort of is. But on twisty roads it will show very much more expensive machines how its done. Could easily be debadged, and stick steel wheels on it, and then it would be an ideal Q car. Last edited by: retgwte on Tue 20 May 14 at 23:07 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 21 May 14 12:35   Modern Q cars - Stuartli

Bit like the three-pot 999ccc 100bhp Daihatsu Charade gtti of the mid-1990s - 0-60 in 7.7 seconds...:-) Loved it. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 22 May 14 05:44   Modern Q cars - Auntie Lockbrakes

How about the Ford Kuga - sold over here with the 2.5 litre 5-cylinder petrol motor that was used for the Focus RS wasn't it?! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 22 May 14 07:40   Modern Q cars - Clk Sec

>> Ford Kuga - sold over here with the 2.5 litre 5-cylinder petrol motor Pity it's not available over here. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 22 May 14 10:20   Modern Q cars - Lygonos

>>Pity it's not available over here It used to be but fell foul of the 225g/km CO2 trap. The Freelander 3.2 straight six was in the same boat and didn't last long either (along with Volvos with the same engine) The Forester 2.5 Turbo was dynamically way better in my humble opinion (having owned one) but ultimately suffered the same fate. www.topgear.com/uk/ford/kuga/road-test/2.5-titanium Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 22 May 14 at 10:23 Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 22 May 14 13:16   Modern Q cars - Clk Sec

Interesting, Lygonos. Reply to this message | Report message