Deeply interesting subject ( to me anyway ) the forces which drive car choice. Once you set aside the pragmatism of need and ability to finance.
Any large, reliable, comfortable estate car which either I could afford, or an employer was prepared to provide would meet my commercial and private requirements.
And yet, like most people who when being honest with themselves, I have less tangible preferences.
I like, or prefer anyway certain colours on my cars despite that making no difference to their usefulness. I'd rather have some cars due to their appearance over other ones, again despite that having no impact on their ability to move me, mine and my stuff efficiently around the highways.
I have some, mainly irrational, brand preferences once more due probably mostly to social conditioning as opposed to any provable practical advantages.
Sitting in interminable Friday night traffic on the M6 last night watching everyone edging hopefully or frustratedly towards whatever their weekend held for them I found myself pondering on what led each of them to choose or find themselves in their given vehicles and how the traffic jam levelled all of us to the basics. No amount of paint, wheel size, engine power output or bonnet badges were able to advantage anyone over anyone else. We were all trapped in the same nightmare whether we were in the latest flashomobile or an old clunker, we were all reduced to the lowest common denominator of just people wanting to get somewhere but prevented from doing so by circumstances beyond their control.
I can't imagine anyone was sitting there reflecting on how well or badly their car was contributing to their appearance and self esteem and would just rather be where they wanted to be.
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I was thinking about this the other day as well. I suppose the full spectrum is there - people who search out the make and model and spec they want (like the ultimate buyer of my 3 series did) to people who buy what's immediately available for what they can afford, regardless of brand, image spec and colour. I may have mentioned it here but I see a lovely little MGRV8 from where I collect my van, as I saw the other day driven by quite an attractive professional lady (who I suspect may be one of the doctors who work at the site) I was wondering whether this was her choice of a very niche car or her partner's (assuming she has one). Beautiful engine sound on the car by the way. My niece, also a doctor, drove an 03 Ford Ka throughout her training and first year of work recently treated herself to a latest model Ka - her father had sourced the car for her. She likes it because it has Bluetooth. My pop-starlette neighbour had an a last model Tigra 2005 I think. She told me she was going to buy a Sportage but because she has to drive to TV studio in South Wales she drives a nearly new Insignia....some people see cars as appliances...My wife had a series of MX5s ditched her latest one in favour of the V50....she is now eyeing up an A1 or B series Merc...
Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 10 May 14 at 10:07
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I'd not really thought about it before, as in what drives other people to get the car they do. I suppose you might be right if you had some horrible misreable commute in stop start traffic it wouldn't matter. A nice commute will open up other choices and lead people to something a bit desirable/sporty. If my commute was a misreable stop start I'd only be bothered it was reliable, had a/c and some music.
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I suppose, once you get past the practicalities, all other purchase / acquisition preferences are a form of adornment.
I'm guessing of course, but I imagine even some cavemen wanted to have a 'better' spear or animal skin than the next bloke or maybe it was alternatively important to them to have a similar one to their peers in order to fit in with the group.
Fascinating stuff to me.
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Oh, and a colleague described my car as an old mans car last night. I'm 43 :-(
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I've had that.
Fortunately I am a bit old.
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@ R.P. I had a B class when my car was serviced this week. Don't would be my advice ;-). The A is a nice looking car, and assuming it drives like the CLA, is a car I'd happily own. The B looks all sad and down in the face front-on, and had a dull interior...
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My friend ( the one with the C63 estate ) had a loan of a new A class AMG nuttermobile the other day.
Phoar !!!!
'Fast' doesn't really cover it!
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>>>Sitting in interminable Friday night traffic on the M6 last night watching everyone edging hopefully or frustratedly towards whatever their weekend held for them..... can't imagine anyone was sitting there reflecting on how well or badly their car was contributing to their appearance and self esteem and would just rather be where they wanted to be
Heart and head have led us to taking career, location and now retirement decisions for the past 20yrs so we never have to face a commute.
So our cars always leave the drive free to fulfil their destiny.
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Funnily enough a friend of mine announced his new car on line last night. He's a family man into his mountain bikes. I immediately recognised the car as one that was in the showroom when I bought my V40. A lovely light blue V60 estate on black ploy wheels. He's into his mountain bikes as well. I asked him whether it was the Polestar (highly spec'd re-mapped diesel) and he didn't know !! It is a Polestar but he was well flummoxed by the question. So clearly he wanted a big car for family and hobby, wanted a diesel and he's ended up with this hairy chested beast not knowing what it really was....cost the best part of 28k as well.
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And if it rides anywhere nearly as badly as my V60 R-design did (which I expect it will) I hope all his routes are over perfectly smooth tarmac!
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The elastic band tyres put me off. Both the V40 and the V50 (R Design) - rides OK. Mrs RP gave the V40 a bit of a seeing to last night on the way home from the Indian on our lovely deserted bendy roads....it rides well enough !
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Another guy I know, who needs ( and indeed freely admits he really does need ) an estate car, always buys saloons because he prefers the appearance.
His latest purchase is a new Jag XF ( so it's not like it's a budget thing ) the inside is already scuffed and bashed about due to his work kit being slung in and out every day when an estate would have swallowed it in the loadbay.
Nowt so funny as folk as they say, somewhere I believe. Yorkshire maybe.
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When I had a young, growing family I was looking for something with a decent interior space and large boot, but had nothing specific in mind.
Went to see (and bought) an Austin Princess as it fitted the bill, sounded and looked in good condition at a reasonable price.
Wife and daughters were upset I couldn't tell them what colour it was - I honestly hadn't noticed and they had to wait a couple of days until I collected it (it was maroon).
I haven't bought with the heart since the days when we had no kids and surplus cash. I had a Vitesse and Cortina GT.
I'm in the same position now, but age means comfort's a major concern.
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BIL has always loved Mercedes: a love he could indulge once he stopped working for Ford:-)
He's just bought a Mercedes 320CDI Avantage estate 2008 with 28k miles sub £15k. Immaculate, Tyre smoking from take offs..
(His wife has just died so he's spending what she left him - he said he could afford a Ferrari but could not get into one:-)
Edit so now he has a W124 estate 3.0D, a 220CDI estate and a Suzuki Swift auto he uses to drive around in...
Last edited by: madf on Sat 10 May 14 at 15:58
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I like to smile when I walk up to my own car, and be full of convenience and comfort, and preferably space, inside.
Although bear in mind that I do think an E39 estate is good looking outside, so what do I know!
In a traffic jam, for example, much as the experience may be awful and I would rather be elsewhere, it will be improved if I am comfortable, can listen to what I want to listen to, at the temperature I want to be etc. etc. And part of that is space to store stuff that I might want.
I like space and sufficient inputs and outlets to be able to charge everything, listen and use everything and not have cables everywhere.
I prefer calmer colours - dark blue, black, silver, dark green etc.
Beyond that, then I do like getting a bargain. Buying a car with a fault I know how to fix, buying a car which is an excellent, yet older or higher mileage version, etc. etc.
I find being in a car flash enough that other people look at a bit embarrassing and so I don't do that anymore, although I certainly used to.
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I've only ever owned classic cars, or in younger days, old cars that were in my judgement about to be classics. I've never been interested in fashion or depreciation.
Heart wins every time.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Sun 11 May 14 at 17:18
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I know a Ford Transit would cover 99.9% of my motoring needs but I wouldn't want one.
Similarly, I view estate cars as covering 99.9% of my needs but again I don't have a foreseeable career moonlighting with the Co-op funeral services.
Joking aside, I want three cells in my car. The last hatchback I had droned a bit from the back box through the boot floor, I heard a similar noise from a neighbours V70 when I traveled in it. If my wife decides to buy half of IKEA we have a family card which sees the purchases delivered to our door, no wear and tear on my pride and joy. On the very rare occasion I need extra space I have a roof box and roof bars or will hire a van.
I also don't have need of jacked up hatchbacks or 4x4.
I like saloon cars and coupes but then I'm obviously out of sync with the rest of Europe.
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Coupes are for lounge lizards. The sort of man who would quietly quite like a medallion on on a chain if he hasn't got one already. The sort of man who would quietly quite like to sleep with Maureen from accounts ( if he hasn't already ) despite being married with kids. The sort of man who wears too much Paco Rabanne.
Saloons are for Masons or those who would quietly quite like to be invited to become one. The sort of man who would quietly quite like to be on the local council. The sort of man who likes doing Soduku and finds it quite exciting.
Hatchbacks are fine, if a little compromised, and are for people who haven't yet realised how much better estate cars are.
4x4s are also fine if you are a farmer, SUVs are for Liverpudlians and girls and MPVs are for people who have given up on any form of automotive self esteem.
Convertibles aren't really for men at all ( unless they have at least 8 cylinders ) and can not under any circumstances be diesels.
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sun 11 May 14 at 18:05
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:-)
I had written the same thing for a Mustang as you wrote for coupes.
I don't have a medallion, fake tan, mustache or back catalog of 70's movies to my name though. Maureen in accounts is a bloke where I work and I'm not going there. I don't wear Brut either.
Funny you should mention Sudoku, my MiL loves them, she drives a hatchback, a Honda Jazz.
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>> Coupes are for lounge lizards.
I don't think I'm one of those, but I really quite fancy a BMW 330 TiDli-pom two-door coupé, perhaps four-door since there are so often nippers to be ferried, a svelte-looking thing that makes a quietly stirring noise under power, does 50mpg and goes like that stuff off a shovel.
If I could afford one I'd be tempted. They don't seem hugely expensive.
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We'd not owned a saloon for over 30yrs until the Alfa... and until that point I'd not really bothered to understand the saloon concept.
But I have to say despite the massive issues a saloon gave us re not being able to carry stuff for my "work, having to take two cars on holiday to carry our boating gear and similarly two cars for each uni run.... well weirdly I actually got to like the saloon concept.
Things you carried were firmly out back in second class and didn't interact with the people area. There is no doubt the Alfa is tighter than the BMW estate on the road and totally free of the acceptable but ever present slight increase in noise with an estate. Having said that our Citroen C5 Tourer was very good in that regard... much better than the BMW.
So if life changes again... perhaps full retirement and kids away to their own lives a saloon might be back on the list... not something I'd have said 1980-2012.
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No budget considerations would give us two cars.
SWMBO:- a small easy to park auto: mine:- a big comfortable big-engined auto lump with seriously comfortable seats, cruise control and climate control. Not fussed about audio stuff in a car.
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Guess you could always buy the type of car you want and teach her to park it?
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Or get one that parks itself..
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I couldn't bear that feature. I pride myself on my ability to reverse park. Letting the car do it would feel like, well, I don't know really, dirty maybe, subversive perhaps.
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Not tried yet....might do one day.
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I'd feel guilty. Sullied. Emasculated.
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Heh heh... funny the visceral loathing one feels for these devices.
There are already cars that malfunction or stop dead 'for the want of a horseshoe nail' so to speak. All unnecessary complexity is to be deplored.
People who want 'driver aids' are the real technophobes and luddites. A layer of electronics to separate you from the incomprehensible machine...
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This BMW is the first I've owned with front and rear parking sensors. The tone is loud and over urgent when I'm sure I could squeeze another few inches. Annoys me whereas herself is pleased as she was initially concerned at its length and the bleepy things have gone some way to easing the situation.
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>> front and rear parking sensors.
Ah yes, the increasingly urgent beepy things... we have them at the back of our jalopy, useful because rear vision is rubbish.
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My Merc beeps way too early. Someone with a hi-viz jacket must have set the perameters.
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Must have been moonlighting from Volvo. The ones on the S60 go off way too soon, garage door open, nothing between the back of the garage and the car so about 25 feet when I get the first beep.
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>> We'd not owned a saloon for over 30yrs until the Alfa..
Groan... yeah, them too... objects of imprudent passion...
The ordinary 2 litre or thereabouts 16v petrol four is perfectly fine. But just to get BBD worked up the real thing might be a tyre-shredding 166 24v...
There used to be this utterly gorgeous black 8c or whatever barchetta thing, a high price high maintenance sort of Alfa, parked round the corner in the Grove sometimes, from Lombarda in the mews 150 yards down from us... I still take a swoop past there when I'm in town, but things sort of recede and even dissolve with the passage of time. Entropy they call it flatteringly.
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>>>objects of imprudent passion...
Well the Alfa is still here at the moment as the BMW seems reluctant to hit the road. However it shouldn't be too long before it can be released to a new driver when of course I will do a traditional farewell post.
Others on here have cars worth so many times more... and either own or have owned cars with far more power. But there is "something" about the Alfa feel that has made the past 18mths quite my best driving time... up there with my DS Pallas, P6 V8 Rovers and Saab 99 Turbo which I look back on with great fondness.
It was all about the driving with the 156.
And now all about the cruising and load space with the 5 series.
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So when can we expect the BMW For Sale sign ? :-)
You know you will never have anything as engaging as the Alfa ever again. Heck, even Alfa don't make engaging Alfa's anymore and BMW's are ten-a-penny middle management hacks.
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>>>So when can we expect the BMW For Sale sign ? :-)
Well as long as it settles down and does the job OK I guess 2+yrs before we could consider anything smaller. I really hope once the comparison with the Alfa ceases on it's sale I will get to like the 525 properly.
There is a lot to think about in upgrading Alfa to Alfa estate as to gain worthwhile space a 159 is needed but they are said to be much softer to drive than the 156 and there are some issues.... and the loadspace is still small besides other exec estates.
Most 159s are the 1.9 4cyl diesel and this model is fitted with a cheese GM transmission suffering frequent bearing failure.... great. Also the front subframe of the 159s are suffering faster corrosion than the largely still sound 156s.
So despite the undoubted stunning looks of a 159 spending 5x the value of the 156 could have taken me into greater liability.... and that didn't seem the case with a 5 series diesel.
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BMWs are Marmite - you'll either hate it or love it. I gave the V40 a bit of a leathering today (not in the washing sense) - whilst it does do everything - including speed - very, very well, I do rather miss the iron fist in the velvet glove dynamics of the 3 Series.....but not everyone's cup of tea.
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Totally agree...I can't seem to get on with BMW at all but I had a C200 for a weekend a couple of weeks ago. Nothing special in performance terms but it went well for a diesel and just pushed and pushed.
A C63 would do the trick and I wish I could have bought a C320.
If the dealers (and manufacturer) won't (speak to the customer and) deal then what's a man to do ?
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 11 May 14 at 21:08
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Fairly sure I've not driven a modern BMW other than an X5 a couple or three years ago. Took that from London to Dusseldorf and back and it was a pleasant enough thing without being majorly exciting.
Last time I had my own BMW was a long time ago, around 1989/90 I want to think. 525i that was. I liked it then but it's unfair to compare it to anything currently available.
People say the new ones feel very planted. I suspect I'd like a 5 series Touring well enough. I'd take a bit of persuading away from another E though given my experience with the current one. It's like a magic carpet with a good radio.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sun 11 May 14 at 21:24
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Is that going to be your new signature Alibaba DAB1?
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Love it !
Daren't though, Pat'll get all sniffy.
;-)
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Talking of bleepy sensor things the gf has a deep hatred of them. On her current CC things appear on her sat nav screen, the previous Insignia was better to park and before that two Passats and a Mondeo had only human sensors. Her parallel parking skills are very impressive and she hates driving small cars, constantly telling me she would like an XF estate as her next company wheels. Notwithstanding an Aston of any kind or an XKR.
She also has an irrational hatred of the X6 and any Subarus, no matter what shape or form.
Women eh.
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>> She also has an irrational hatred of the X6...
Fair play to the lassie !
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To offset the slight negativity on my part...
Despite not wanting to use the BMW on the road due to wheel/tyre issues I've worked through a major all filters service and pre-MOT checklist and I have to say the quality, engineering and innovation (2002 car remember) are impressive.
For example that elec air pump self levelling rear suspension is so well thought out and compact giving such a flat, square loadspace.
It has the aux diesel heater you can set on a timer through the radio/info display and a crafty heat store (like a reverse fridge) that continues to deliver heat into the car if reqd even when the engine is off... like a McDonalds stop in the winter.
Filter servicing is so well thought out with oil, air, fuel and pollen to hand at the top of the engine compartment. The diesel filter is totally self bleeding via an elec pump rather than turning over and over to pump fuel through like most of its age.
Yep... engineering very well thought out.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sun 11 May 14 at 21:42
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McDonalds? Would've thought that since having the 156 you'd now only stop where you can get a decent espresso?
;-)
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Well of course wherever you stop you have to drink up as there are no cup holders in a 156.
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For all you Latin lovers - my nephew has bought this.
i115.photobucket.com/albums/n297/penfro/Alfa_zps78ee4914.jpg
It's been on order for 12 months, apparently and is a launch model of a limited edition.
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That's more than a little exciting Roger. A proper no compromise car.
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Yes, very fine. An expensive fast Alfa.
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He says there IS room for a child seat in the back for my great-nephew!
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Ahh... the 4C - a thing of real beauty. I just can't help thinking something so nice needs more than 4 pots though, but the 1.75 Turbo does shift it along at immense speeds. on paper 4.5 seconds to 62mph, in reality, with a proper launch, closer to 4 seconds.
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Of the three cars we have...
Pug 406 - My heart said WTF are you doing and funnily enough so did my head! But it turned out to be a good purchase that soldiers on and I can't quite seem to let it go for no good reason.
I30 - definitely Head. (wifes car), her heart said Golf (puzzles me), but the newer, better spec & longer warranty of the Hyundai made it a head buy.
Toyota - definitely Heart. It serves no real practical purpose other than making my heart sing every time I see or drive it.
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My nephew's car now for sale - typically for his shrewd business head, at a mark up on list!
tinyurl.com/ocd9m8q
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Odd the way we buy cars (and I include myself).
My daughter and her husband have an Audi S3, but she is expecting in October and as people do these days the search is on for a larger car - A6, A4 wagons, and BMW X3s have been mooted. Never mind that we took her and her paraphernalia on holiday to France at 6 months old in a Fiesta.
I called in on the way home on Saturday, from collecting my wife's new Roomster Scout, and told them they need look no further - more space than many much bigger cars, quiet, comfortable and safe. They weren't interested at all!
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Put 4 rings on the bonnet, and I'm sure they would be sold on it!
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>> Put 4 rings on the bonnet, and I'm sure they would be sold on it!
You are probably right, if it had 200+ bhp. I'm sure the 105ps 1.2TSI can be chipped, but it might not do much for the life of the DQ200 7 speed DSG transmission:(
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It'd be far cheaper search for a buggy and baby carrier/car seat that fits an Audi S3 than to change the car! Mothercare are pretty good when it comes to "I want a buggy to fit the boot of that..."
From doing a similar exercise with a '01 3 series, which had a smaller boot opeing, if anything, than the Audi, I found the Maxi Cosi Quinny buggy was a good starting point. In fact, without RWD, it'd probably fit folded up across the floor between the front and rear seats.
And when No. 2 arrived, we bought a roof box :-)
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I found the Maxi Cosi Quinny buggy was a good starting point. In fact, without RWD, it'd probably fit folded up across the floor...
Damn those RWD buggies and the space they take up. Thing is, do they eliminate the squealing and chirruping?
};---)
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"...do they eliminate the squealing and chirruping?"
Not from the occupants, at least :-0
Of course you knew I meant the transmission tunnel that gets in the way in a BM more than an A3 ... but I'd have thought of the Quinny as a FWD runabout of a buggy. The Mamas & Papas 02 we bought No. 1 was more your 4x4 buggy!
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A £60k car that they had to pay extra to get cruise control, reversing sensors and an aux socket!
Most of which are available on low spec £15k ish cars!
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It's meant to be a lightweight sportscar, Bobby. It probably doesn't come with a roof rack or a folding picnic table either.
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I missed this thread when it first appeared - thank you, Runfer, you can be relied on to think of something interesting for us to discuss!
Maybe it's the political centrist in me, but if I'm spending a lot of money on a car I want it to satisfy both head and heart (you have to spend a lot more money than most of us have for a house to do that, so the car is the next best thing).
I suspect your E-class does that for you, as my Octavia at a lower budget does for me. Like you I need a workhorse (even in retirement!) but I also want to enjoy driving it. So a big wagon with a Golf GTI engine does it for me.
Last edited by: Avant on Mon 9 Jun 14 at 18:40
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Hearts and heads - R.P.
