As mentioned in another thread, if take-over at work goes ahead as planned, by next Friday I shall be offered a company car, or a car allowance. I've never been lucky enough to be in that position before, and it was a complete (but very pleasant) surprise when I found out.
There's still a way to go and I hope I'm not jinxing it by mentioning it here - originally today should have been day one with the new bosses, but there's been a week's delay. Official line is dotting Is and crossing Ts, so hopefully it's still going to happen.
Details are thin on the ground at the moment - all I know is the amount of the car allowance which I'll be entitled to if I don't take the car, and that will be paid monthly just like a pay increase - no need to spend it on an existing car or anything like that. It is pretty tempting - it would certainly help with the train fares.
What I have no idea about is the sort of car I'll be offered, what sort of choice I'll have (if any), etc. At the moment we've just got Mrs F's Colt, complete with dodgy gear change. We still don't really need 2 cars, so I suspect the best option will be to take the car and sell the Colt, possibly to a stepson at a preferential rate.
I know there's tax implications to having a company car ie. you have to pay some, but that's about the limit of my knowledge at the moment.
Quite exciting for me - the prospect of a new car always is, and doubly so if it's 'free'. As soon as I get more details I'll let you know; if there's a choice of vehicle to be made, I'll be relying on your invaluable suggestions. Although I'd better warn you - Mrs F has been going on about how she wants an Alfa for years, so if that's a possibility you'll have your work cut out persuading her to consider anything else :)
Any thoughts welcome eg. pros/cons, things to consider, etc.
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Despite the tax, being given a new company car is still cheaper than buying the same new car and running it yourself. So if Mrs F's Colt could do with updating ... But what fleet manager in his right mind would allow an Alfa on the list? Prepare to be disappointed!
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>> But what fleet manager in his right mind would allow an Alfa on
>> the list? Prepare to be disappointed!
She might be, I wouldn't - I'd settle for a nice new Focus thanks, so I can change my forum name back obviously.
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>>Any thoughts welcome<<
Just pleased for you Focusless:)
Pat
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>> But what fleet manager in his right mind would allow an Alfa on
>> the list? Prepare to be disappointed!
When I joined Xerox back in '99 GM/Fiat were on the preferred supplier list(via Leaseplan) for cars. The then new Alfa 156 was a very popular choice. Of course other brands were available - I had an A4 at the time - but going GM/Fiat got you a much higher spec car. The 2.0 Selespeed Alfa in red with tan leather was tempting...
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>> Despite the tax, being given a new company car is still cheaper than buying the
>> same new car and running it yourself.
But much dearer than buying one second hand (say 12 months old) on the allowance. Even more so if you actually get to do some company miles you can claim for.
What a company car gets you above all is piece of mind. You don't care if you crash it, or it breaks or it gets nicked. A phone call to Hertz will produce a duplicate in a heartbeat.
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>> Quite exciting for me - the prospect of a new car always is, and doubly
>> so if it's 'free'. As soon as I get more details I'll let you know;
>> if there's a choice of vehicle to be made, I'll be relying on your invaluable
>> suggestions. Although I'd better warn you - Mrs F has been going on about how
>> she wants an Alfa for years, so if that's a possibility you'll have your work
>> cut out persuading her to consider anything else :)
>>
>> Any thoughts welcome eg. pros/cons, things to consider, etc.
Firstly lets put Mrs F down. Most company car schemes explicitly exclude Alfas. (no joking here - the lease companies won't touch them)
You are likely to be offered a price band. For example 400 month lease charge or 500 month allowance to run your own. You may be offered a list of cars with a a lease charge against them and you may be able to add your own money to the lease cost to "update"
Your Tax liability will be on the full list price of the car and any extras specified calculated against its official Co2 figure
www.hmrc.gov.uk/calcs/cars.htm
That is why most people get BMW diesels. They have good residual values off lease so the lease charge is lowish, and they have low COs2 values.
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Thanks for the info, and cheers Pat.
3 series diesel would do nicely thanks!
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One of my friend's Dads had a 330d, you could tell from the passenger seat that this was a car with very satisfactory performance. I think he has a Jaguar XF now although changes his cars often so probably something different again.
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if as you say you don't need 2 cars, it's a complete no-brainer - take the allowance and bank it. £400 a month invested at say 4% gives you, what, £15 grand every 3 years! Nice.
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What about a nice reliable Renault?
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>> if as you say you don't need 2 cars, it's a complete no-brainer - take
>> the allowance and bank it.
The allowance wouldn't be that great - £228 after tax - which tends to make me think that a 3 series might be somewhat out of reach. 1.0 Focus perhaps?
What about replacing (and selling) our existing car - it's an '07 - instead of taking the allowance?
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A base BMW 3 series diesel will come in at about the £250 month mark on a three year lease.
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There's a 100bhp car, barely run in, going in Manchester. Just think how much you would save:)
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>> A base BMW 3 series diesel will come in at about the £250 month mark
>> on a three year lease.
I like the sound of that; main problem will be convincing Mrs F, who dislikes BMWs almost as much as she likes Alfas :)
Would that £250 include servicing? I'm guessing not.
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Just over £300 for a fully maintained 518d SE auto on 48 month a business lease. Xenons leather and sat-nav standard on the 5 series too I think...
www.leasing4business.co.uk/offers/details/22568/bmw/5-series-diesel-saloon-518d-se-4dr-step-auto
Bargain!
Last edited by: PeterS on Fri 7 Feb 14 at 20:33
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>> Just over £300 for a fully maintained 518d SE auto on 48 month a business
>> lease. Xenons leather and sat-nav standard on the 5 series too I think...
Like... wow. Sod the Alfa if I can have a 5 series sitting on the drive...
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>> >> Just over £300 for a fully maintained 518d SE auto on 48 month a
>> business
>> >> lease. Xenons leather and sat-nav standard on the 5 series too I think...
>>
>> Like... wow. Sod the Alfa if I can have a 5 series sitting on the
>> drive...
>>
Depends on the scheme, back in the good old days when I had a proper job my car allowance was 625 quid per month, but if I'd taken the car option even the most basic 5 series was a little beyond the budget. Schemes do vary quite widely though.
I took the money and ran old bangers.
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Our Berlingo XTR (1.6 115PS) would, even at 40% tax apparently cost me circa £1400pa in tax.
Compared with service and insurance cost then loan or loss of interest on capital & depreciation it looks like a no brainer.
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>> Our Berlingo XTR (1.6 115PS) would, even at 40% tax apparently cost me circa £1400pa
>> in tax.
>>
>> Compared with service and insurance cost then loan or loss of interest on capital &
>> depreciation it looks like a no brainer.
>>
If the alternative is funding a brand new car yourself then yes, probably.
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For a true comparison then don't compare the cost difference between running a banger personally with allowance vs. brand new company car.
If I took the money I'd buy nearly new for cash - if a loan is involved then the calculations aren't going to be great. But before I do that, looking to buy a house abroad and owning a depreciating car might not be great over the next three years :-)
Another factor for Focusless.... are you going to be expected to travel for business when the takeover completes? If you're still doing the same desk job you commute to then that is a factor in any decision.
If it's like our company, you can opt in at any time... so perhaps take the allowance first to see how the land lies?
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>> >> A base BMW 3 series diesel will come in at about the £250 month
>> mark
>> >> on a three year lease.
>>
>> I like the sound of that; main problem will be convincing Mrs F, who dislikes
>> BMWs almost as much as she likes Alfas :)
>>
>> Would that £250 include servicing? I'm guessing not.
Yup, company leases include everything except insurance.
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>>
>> Yup, company leases include everything except insurance.
>>
Usually, but not always. Almost all lease companies will offer you a maintained or non-maintained price for a car - maintained adds around £40 plus the VAT a month on a 3 year / 60k lease for an average sort of company car IIRC.
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>As mentioned in another thread, if take-over at work goes ahead as planned,..
My employer is currently going through Fed approval to sell part of it's business to a Chinese company.
It hasn't been announced if the rather specialised team I work in will be part of the transfer, but since we ultimately report into that division it seems likely.
Just hope that their company car list isn't restricted to Great Wall Motors and I don't have to choose between a Wingle, Haval or Coolbear.
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>> >As mentioned in another thread, if take-over at work goes ahead as planned,..
>>
>> My employer is currently going through Fed approval to sell part of it's business to
>> a Chinese company.
>>
>> It hasn't been announced if the rather specialised team I work in will be part
>> of the transfer, but since we ultimately report into that division it seems likely.
They chucking the HPC bit in with the X biz then? Surprised by that. Still I know a few of the PC bods that went to Lenovo in the last sale, and they did rather well out of it. Much more focussed business they said with far less of the internal BS.
And a better car scheme.
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>They chucking the HPC bit in with the X biz then? Surprised by that.
No idea yet, but it looks that way.
>Much more focussed business they said with far less of the internal BS.
Internal BS? Don't know what you mean. ;-)
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Focusless, depending on scheme the cars you can get can vary. We've had a period when we couldn't get decent makes/marques (no BMW, MB, VAG). Then it swapped lease company and we got all the decent cars but no Ford or Vauxhall. It swapped again and they are on the list.
I am sure you have worked out by now if you take the cash allowance you will pay both tax (40% for you) and National Insurance on the amount. Simple maths says you'll see half of it.
On the other hand, if you take the car you will pay tax on more of your salary - the benefit in kind - based on P11d list price including options and the taxable BIK rate which is CO2 related. You may also be able to trade-up or down. When you contribute to a car's monthly costs you have that taken out of salary before tax/NI - so a £50/month contribution only reduced take home pay by approx half that.
So take the BMW 518d SE manual (solid paint) as an example with no options:
- P11d list price about £30250
- Emissions 119g/km
So for a 40% tax payer, tax payable per month for 2014/2015 tax year is:
£30,250 x 19% x 40% / 12 = £191.58pm
i.e. your take home pay will be down £191.58 each month. But you get a BMW 518d SE for that that is fully maintained.
Whether your allowance would get you that car or a BMW is allowed I don't know. On my car scheme, if I took that car I'd get £23pm back in my salary for trading down (we get a higher allowance for cars with lower emissions).
If I took the cash allowance I'd get £525pm but after tax would see around half of that. My take home pay would be nearer £450pm higher because I'd not be paying tax on a £28k car though. But next car could be up to £90pm take home pay better off if I chose right.
Back to your situation though:
- You commute on the train
- Need only one car in the family
- You have a Mitsubishi Colt
If you took the cash allowance you could stay as you are or you could also consider a smaller car as a company car! For say a Skoda CityGo for me:
- P11d for an Elegance 5 door £10,545
- BIK rate 14%
Therefore monthly tax is £49.21. And on our scheme this car's monthly rental is £191 vs. the BMW 518d SE at £377. So the trade down for me would be £209 so about £100 is in my salary extra per month. Compared to my Passat CC I'd be about £270pm (take home) better off with the CityGo.
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Sorry that's long...
And I did mean to say VAG/BMW/MB cars can work out cheaper than Ford/Vauxhall because the leases are cheaper due to better residuals.
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Thanks rtj. I know I've got a few decisions to make; indeed there's no point getting a 5 series just for Mrs F's commute into Reading town centre. In fact she's already said that it needs to be small to fit on the drive she rents out for parking. Plus that's a lot of tax.
Anyway, I'll probably end up being given a choice between a Fiesta and a Corsa, and one of those would make more financial sense. As might taking the allowance instead.
Hopefully all will become clearer on Friday...
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Alfa 156 V6 said to be very reliable provided cambelt changes done properly and on time. And sure to be a more seductive drive than a BMW.
A 330d BMW coupe is indeed a very nice car, refined and gutsy. Why anyone would want a 518d is completely beyond me though. All mouth and trousers...
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>> Why anyone
>> would want a 518d is completely beyond me though. All mouth and trousers...
>>
Brilliant car for cruising in comfort I'd have thought, with decent handling when needed. 141bhp and 266lb ft getting it to 62mph in 9.7 seconds isn't swift, but it's not sluggish either and it is almost £2k less than the 520d!
I don't think you can buy a V6 Alfa now can you, at least not in the UK, mores the pity...
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Same block and capacity in the 518d as the 520d. I dare say it can be chipped for the extra 40bhp if it matters, which in the real world it won't.
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>> I don't think you can buy a V6 Alfa now can you, at least not in the UK, mores the pity...
God how appalling. Life soon won't be worth living if things carry on at this rate.
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Only three models from Alfa in the UK these days:
- Mito
- Giulietta
- 4C
What a shame. I liked the 156 and 159. Not that it was on lease/company hire lists.
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Some years ago I was given a 156 by Hertz at Gatwick which was a nice surprise, but transpired to be a bitter disappointment.
Oddly offset driving position (I guess caused by the RHD conversion) and no logic to the controls. Given my mostly German driving history I found it most odd, and noisy and would have gladly swapped it for something more mundane for the purpose of getting me home on a wet winter night. Maybe, had we met on a sunny Sunday afternoon it may have been different!
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>> Why anyone would want a 518d is completely beyond me though.
Mrs F says the same about PT Cruisers :)
>> All mouth and trousers...
If it was pimped up like an M5 then I would agree, but as long as it's not trying to be a sheep in wolf's clothing I'd be more than happy to take one (if I could afford it).
My previous 2.0 Focus had roughly the same 0-60, and thanks to its tractability it felt lively enough to me and was very good to drive. The BM might be different, but I wouldn't reject it out of hand based on the figures. On the other hand, I wouldn't be interested if it didn't come with leather, xenons and a few other 'luxury' toys.
I guess I'm just getting old :)
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>>I guess I'm just getting old :)
What makes you say that, it's not an automatic is it.
:}
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The BMW 5 series in SE trim will have things like parking sensors, DAB, rain sensor wipers, auto lights, Xenons headlights, and Dakota leather (is that real leather or just the cheaper stuff? I think it's harder and not as comfortable as some softer leathers)*. It won't have metallic paint as standard. Emissions on the auto version are identical to manual so only increase in tax is based on list price. Our car scheme has the auto as £2/month more than the manual. So in 2014/2015 tax year it will cost about £11/month more than the manual - that's take home pay for a higher rate tax payer.
* I know the leather on my Passat with Nappa Leather is a lot softer than the leather Audi use in their cars with standard leather.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 10 Feb 14 at 10:04
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I should add that the total cost in terms of tax paid on a BMW 518d SE auto for my car scheme and my allowance would be: £190pm. A 520d SE auto would be £206. Man maths would have you go for the 520d as it's only £16pm more that you lose in take home pay each month.
Of course if you take the allowance you'd get that on top of your current salary. For me I'd get about £260 after tax/NI from the allowance. So taking the allowance and not this car would see me with about £460pm extra in my take home pay. Enough to make a difference but not enough to fund the equivalent car (maybe on PCP type deal and you never own the company car). Last time I worked out a price for a PCP type deal and company car they were about the same cost overall.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 10 Feb 14 at 10:13
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The other way to look at it is that having the 520 will cost you £600 over a three-year lease. Personally, I could think of better ways to spend that than having a 520 instead of a 518.
Especially as automatics, you would probably never notice the difference in performance anyway...
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>> The other way to look at it is that having the 520 will cost you £600 over a three-year lease.
But I'm not personally after either. Seriously thinking of a Mazda6 2.2d Sport saloon. Tax for that (40% taxpayer) will be £141.55 in 2014/2015. And monthly rental is currently £382.83 so I'd get £17.17 cash back too. Therefore monthly cost is about £133. A big difference compared to the BMW 518d SE. Even bigger difference to what my Passat CC will cost in the same tax year (£225) because I'll be £92pm better off. Or £3,312 over 3 years.... except BIK rates changes over that time of course.
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There's a similar possibility on my horizon when my current workplace is closed down later this year. I may qualify for a "business needs" company car if the new workplace is far enough away. My fabulous and thrilling choice will be as follows: Renault Megane or Vauxhall Astra. Poverty spec lowest powered diesel manual.
I'll probably keep the Mazda and take the mileage payments.
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Yes there is a huge difference in choice with my employer between benefit car and business need. Lucky for me I get a benefit car - I don't do enough (sometimes any) business miles to justify a business needs car. The choice does include some Skodas and Vauxhalls.
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I opted back into the company car world a couple of years ago. Still a no-brainer for my circumstances.
The entire tax bill for car and private fuel is only around £35 a month more than the cost of the fuel I burn.
Yes, I could opt out, and the cost of paying for my own fuel would be offset by the reduction in income tax, plus a little bit extra as above. But then I'd need to buy or lease (at 20k pa rates) a car, plus maintain, tax and insure it. I'd get a £6,000 car allowance of course, but that's £300 a month once the taxman has had his cut. I reckon RFL, insurance and maintenance alone would be £100, leaving £200 for the car itself (actually, £234 because of the difference between the BIK saving and the fuel cost).
I couldn't drive a car even that's even close to what I have now for £234 a month.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 10 Feb 14 at 12:22
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>> I couldn't drive a car even that's even close to what I have now for £234 a month.
My calculations and thoughts were similar.
Only way to make it pay is to get a nearly new car (unknown history though) and pay for it in cash (no finance). Then over 3 years you could probably replace the savings used for purchase if you didn't go for anything to expensive/upmarket. And it would be worth a few thousand £ at least. Then do it again for the next few years having traded in the car so less savings are needed.
Personally don't want to tie up the cash in a car.
I know you can make back some money due to the difference paid in expenses vs. HMRC rules but you need to be doing fairly high mileage. I try to do 0 business miles these days.
Back to Focusless, it sounds to me he doesn't need a car himself so surely the maths won't work out. He may like a nice big car but it will make him hundreds per month worse off than he is now and he'll rarely drive it.
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>> I guess I'm just getting old :)
I agree really Focusless. I'm sure I would be more than happy with a 518d. It's just that I get greedy when considering cars I can't afford.
I do remember a 520 auto that was a bit of a thirsty slug. It wasn't mine and I thought there was something wrong with the gearbox, very fussy, changing up and down all the time.
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If Focusless was interested in a company car and something like a Focus hatchback in 1.6TDCi Zetec 5 door trim is of interest then on our scheme the car would be £237.43pm rental. Personally I'd get £162pm back into salary so £80pm take home from just choosing this. Emissions are 99g/km for CO2 which based on a list price of £18930 is £94.65pm. So compared to my car for this year I'd be better off by £176pm take home pay.
If we chose cars based on savings alone then we'd all be in something like a Skoda CitiGo.
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>> As mentioned in another thread, if take-over at work goes ahead as planned, by next
>> Friday I shall be offered a company car ...
>>
>> originally today should have been day one with the new bosses, but
>> there's been a week's delay. Official line is dotting Is and crossing Ts, so hopefully
>> it's still going to happen.
Argh - they're still dotting Ts and crossing Is. Don't have a confirmed start date yet, never mind a list of shiny new cars to choose from :(
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While I'm waiting...
Just spotted that amongst the various top 10 lists on the HJ website are '10 lowest BIK rate diesels' and '10 best petrol cars for company car tax'. The diesel Dacia Sandero 1.5 dCi Ambience looks good with a BIK of £434, but even that's positively extravagant compared to the petrol Suzuki Alto 1.0 SZ at £286.
But not many BMWs in those lists unfortunately...
www.honestjohn.co.uk/company-car-tax-advice/top-10s/company-car-tax-10-lowest-bik-rate-diesels/
www.honestjohn.co.uk/company-car-tax-advice/top-10s/company-car-tax-10-best-petrol-cars-for-company-car-tax/
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>> But not many BMWs in those lists unfortunately...
>>
>> www.honestjohn.co.uk/company-car-tax-advice/top-10s/company-car-tax-10-lowest-bik-rate-diesels/
>> www.honestjohn.co.uk/company-car-tax-advice/top-10s/company-car-tax-10-best-petrol-cars-for-company-car-tax/
It does make you realise how well BMW have this nailed though. They achieve the same 109g/km CO2 rating with a 163PS 2.0 diesel 5-seat family saloon as Ford manage from a 75PS 1.3 diesel supermini. OK, the list price sees to it that the tax bill on the BMW is higher, but the actual rate of tax is identical.
I suspect the real world economy of both cars is broadly similar as well, despite the BMW being significantly faster and heavier.
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Have a play with menus on this Focusless. You can plug in all manner of data and it makes suggestions. ( Ooh er missus )
comcar.co.uk/
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>> Have a play with menus on this Focusless. You can plug in all manner of
>> data and it makes suggestions. ( Ooh er missus )
>>
>> comcar.co.uk/
Thanks Runfer - google had found that for me and I've been having a play. It's not ideal though ie. it hasn't managed to find me a BMW/Merc/Audi that's lighter on tax than a 1.0 Suzuki Alto :(
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Finally had our 'Day 1' with the new company yesterday and got some more details, although there's more to come in the post apparently. The company supplying the vehicles is www.arval.co.uk who we were told have a list of 5-6000 vehicles to choose from, although if you try to select the Make in the drop-down they don't appear to use any manufatcurer from N onwards!
The max lease cost I'm allowed allowed seems quite generous and would stretch to a 525d, but as already discussed it's the tax which is going to be the killer. So not yet decided whether to go for it or take the 'lower' cash alternative - the car is still sooooo tempting...
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 25 Feb 14 at 10:04
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Just found out a few facts from reading the policy on the company intranet:
- max CO2 of 145 (rules out my old Focus then!), decreasing in the future
- lease period of 4 years
- Alanovich will be please to hear that '4 wheel drive layouts is not approved due to the fact it has an increased fuel consumption compared to 2 wheel drive designs' :)
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>> - max CO2 of 145 (rules out my old Focus then!), decreasing in the future
>>
Now you can see why so many company cars are diesel fuelled
As a company car driver for the last 30+ years, even with the tax it is the cheapest way to fund a brand new car and with the maintenance/insurance etc thrown in I have always regarded it as a no-brainer
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>> Now you can see why so many company cars are diesel fuelled
>>
I became aware of this when looking for my petrol Jaguar X type.
A quick check today on AT for X type £5K+ showed
500+ for sale but only 35 were petrol. Of course not all were company cars but I suspect most of them started life as company cars.
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There is an E200 CGI (petrol) version of my LEC, the S211 if you're an MB nerd. I know because I've seen one. Only one, though, in two years of noticing Es and driving my own.
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Finally got (nearly) all the details. The company pays the lease cost, which includes servicing and insurance for me and Mrs F.
Still tempted, enough to have a look at a few cars in the flesh at the weekend. Perhaps surprisingly one of the best bets appears to be the Audi A3 Sportback (=5dr) with the 1.4 TFSI 140ps engine. Because it's got start/stop and also cuts 2 cylinders under light load, it has a relatively low CO2 of 112; the BIK 2013/14 tax for the SE spec is £1176. That's less than the 105ps 1.6 TDI, which is over 2s slower to 62 (8.4 vs 10.7).
The A3 is supposed to be really good - What Car say 'It’s one of the best premium hatchbacks you can buy". The main criticism I've seen in some reviews is that it's not a particularly inspiring drive. The Golf is reported to be better, but there isn't a mid spec version with the same engine; you have to go up to the GT whose £23k list price puts the tax up to £1310. The SE has the 122ps 1.4 - less efficient and hence also heavier on the tax than the A3 at £1285.
Anyone got/driven a current model A3?
Actually I prefer the look of the A1 to the A3, and it also comes with that 140ps 1.4. But it's just too small - about the same as the Colt, and it looked like less boot space due to the more sloping rear hatch. We've been managing with the (3 door) Colt, but it's not ideal for transporting elderly relatives or going on holiday in.
So I've requested a test drive in an A3. I'm allowed one more through the lease company - any suggestions?
I'm toying with the idea of a Fiesta with the 125ps 1.0 EcoBoost engine, as driven and liked by Hammond in the Top Gear supermini group test the other week. Not as quick as the A3 (0-62 in 9.4), but more fun. And smaller, although bigger than the Colt. Main advantage over the A3 is the tax - only £756 in Titanium X trim.
I did consider the Focus with the same efficient 125ps engine as the Fiesta, but Mrs F told me that its 0-62 of 11.3 is too slow :)
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>
>> I did consider the Focus with the same efficient 125ps engine as the Fiesta, but
>> Mrs F told me that its 0-62 of 11.3 is too slow :)
Tell Mrs F that if she ever gets to drive it hard enough to prove the 0-62 time she can have a say.
Having driven the Fiesta, its really impressive, big car levels of refinement in a smaller package (won't say small because it looks like the size of the first Mk1 Focus!)
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>> Tell Mrs F that if she ever gets to drive it hard enough to prove
>> the 0-62 time she can have a say.
Believe me she doesn't need telling - Lower Earley traffic light grand prix champion.
>> Having driven the Fiesta, its really impressive, big car levels of refinement in a smaller
>> package (won't say small because it looks like the size of the first Mk1 Focus!)
Yeah, it does look good. It's badge snobbery really - we've got the opportunity to have a 'premium' car that we wouldn't have otherwise considered (the A3), plus it's supposed to be really good. Tricky one.
I'm going to request a drive in the Fiesta.
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"So I've requested a test drive in an A3. I'm allowed one more through the lease company - any suggestions?"
Yes - go have a look at the Fiesta, Focus and A1 at your local dealers, then request a test drive of whichever you and your stuff* fit best in.
* A nearby Hyundai dealer used to keep a stack of all the sort of stuff you'd want to put in the boot of a car - boxes, suitcases, buggies etc. in the corner of his showroom. It struck me as such a good idea, I can't imagine why everyone doesn't do it (unless they're afraid you'll realise what doesn't fit in their cars, of course!)
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Thanks Gromit - I sat in an A1, A3 and Fiesta at the weekend, and you could definitely tell from inside which badge was on the outside.
But yes - if we really feel like we need another test drive, it shouldn't be too hard to arrange as an 'ordinary' buyer. We've pretty much ruled out the Focus as it's only cheap enough in relatively slow versions - A3 seems like the better choice for the money.
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Checking the important "stuff" fits is the key, really.
We looked, on and off, at a couple of cars before I happened across the current Legacy. Some of them surprised me, such as the 06 V70 in which a two-year old in a kiddy seat couldn't fit behind me.
My late father has a very specific requirement about how many boxes he could fit in an estate when he bought his last car. Some salesmen got very uneasy when he arrived along with his cardboard box to measure out the loadspace in the supposed load lugger they were selling...
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I'll bear that in mind. There's usually only me and Mrs F, although 17 year old son will occasionally deign to come with us. We've managed with the (3dr) Colt, and the (5dr) A3 is bigger in every respect than that, so that's not an issue. We'll be more careful checking the Fiesta.
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Son is on his third but they have all been 2.0 140ish diesels and S-line spec. He likes them but is considering moving back up to an A6 for more room.
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>> moving back up to an A6 for more room.
Nice - tried getting a quote for one of those, but 'no records found' ie. none within my max allowed lease cost + 15% 'upgrade' limit!
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Not sure where the Seat Leon would fit into your criteria but I really like the look of the new model Leon - should have all the same engines as the A3 I would guess.
The Ibiza on the other hand, is a million miles behind the Fiesta in top spec.
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Yes, there is a Leon SE with the 140ps ACT (= cylinder cut-off) engine - it works out at about £100 per year less in tax than the A3, is marginally quicker to 60, but a bit less economical (gearing?).
It's in my spreadsheet, and if it was significantly cheaper (in tax) than the A3 I would probably have taken it for a test drive. But it isn't, and for practically the same money we think we would prefer the 'premium' Audi over the 'cheep & cheerful' SEAT.
(Many years ago we did splash out on a brand new Leon FR with the 200ps 2.0 TFSI engine - very quick, and good value.)
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And we did visit a SEAT garage after Audi at the weekend (both in Basingstoke). You just got the impression you were at different ends of the market - of course you shouldn't let that influence your decision too much, but it did a bit. Especially Mrs F - compared to me she's much more into looks/appearances and perceived quality rather than facts and figures, and as she'll be driving it more, I can't ignore her thoughts. Not without suffering the consequences anyway :)
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Sounds to me like you've found your answer and it's the A3: big enough but not too big, the numbers work and, most importantly, you both like it. Get one and report thoroughly on it here - and not just because it's high on my list as a replacement for the dear but old S60.
};---)
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Well it's certainly the favourite at the moment, although I'm looking forward to having a go in the Fiesta. Just waiting for the dealers to ring to fix up the test drives - irritating because at least one person in the office has already got one arranged, for tomorrow...
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 5 Mar 14 at 12:30
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Audi dealer got in touch - no A3s available to test drive in the UK at the moment; might have to wait until April!
The chap with the drive tomorrow, sits next to me, is on the higher of the 2 allowance levels; he's got a Jag XF lined up. He says the tax will be £240pm so I think it must 'only' be a 2.2D 163ps, but even so, nice...
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>> Audi dealer got in touch - no A3s available to test drive in the UK
>> at the moment; might have to wait until April!
Cobblers.
For UK, read that garage...and...
...there will be a salesman/woman somewhere using one as their company car..if they were hungry enough, they'd sort you out a test drive.
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That sounds like Reading Audi, who never seem to want to sell anything. Try Newbury or Slough, both of whom I've found much keener to do the job they're paid to do. I haven't tried Basingstoke. If you really can't get your hands on an A3, then maybe the Golf or SEAT Leon could come back into the reckoning. I presume that the Octavia is bigger than you need - and I get the slight impression that Mrs F may not see herself as a Skoda driver....
I hired a 1.25 Fiesta recently: generally very nice to drive with the exception of a lack of oomph at low revs, which I think may be a feature of Ford petrols. This one seemed to want to be driven in a more spirited way than I was inclined to do on a wet night in Aberdeen. I didn't like the dashboard either, whose stylist seems to have a predilection for 1990s mobile phones.
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I don't really buy new cars, the depreciation upsets me, and I don't very often do jobs which provide a company car - I wish they did.
However, within the last few times I did was I think a 5 Series in the UK and a Tahoe in the US. The dealer in the US apologised profusely that he couldn't get me my car the same day and that I would need to wait until the next day and would I accept a slightly second hand model to use in the meantime.
The BMW dealer told me it would be 10 weeks and thought he was doing me a favour, even bigger than the favour he was doing by allowing me to buy it.
The only exception I can remember in the UK would be when I bought the Phaeton. That was a very pleasant purchasing experience.
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>> That sounds like Reading Audi
Swindon actually, the location of the company main office.
>> Try Newbury or Slough, both of whom I've found much keener to do the job they're paid
>> to do.
It's all arranged by the leasing company (Arval) who have their list of dealers. Technically nothing to stop me going into any other dealer as an 'ordinary' buyer of course, although I'm not that keen on pretending to be something I'm not. Might give it a go if we get desperate.
>> I presume that the Octavia is bigger than you need
Shouldn't be as AFAIK it's based on the Golf platform, but I haven't looked at one closely.
>> and I get the slight impression that Mrs F may not see herself as a Skoda driver....
I know, it's illogical, and I've tried to tell her what good cars they are these days. Having said that, it looks like they don't do an Octavia with the tax efficient version of the 1.4 TFSI engine, so it's about £200 a year more in tax for the 1.4 Elegance than the A3.
>> I hired a 1.25 Fiesta recently ...
>> a lack of oomph at low revs, which I think may be a feature of Ford petrols.
But not the (turbo) Ecoboosts like the 1.0 I'm having a go in, hopefully.
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"if we get desperate"
If I was getting desperate to spend a company car allowance, it'd make me not buy the Audi. If they can't be bothered to even try to sell one to me, what will they be like once I'm driving one?
I'm driving a Legacy because, when I called by the dealer just on spec, he 1) took the trouble to show me the diesel Legacy and Forester he had in stock and 2) when the Legacy was too expensive and the Forester didn't suit, took the trouble to chase down a second-hand Legacy from the far side of the county...which I drove away in for a 24 hour test within an hour and bought the next day.
Likewise, the weekend before last, I went into a Ford dealer asking about a Grand C-Max. He didn't have one - but he sent me out on a test drive in the brand new Tourneo Connect he'd had delivered the night before (after he took the delivery sticker off the windscreen, plastic wrap off the seats and fueled it first). So Ford have gone from "I didn't know they did one" to "Why should I buy a Doblo/Maxi/Berlingo instead" for ten minutes effort on his part. And if I buy one, I'll give him first shot at the sale.
"they don't do an Octavia with the tax efficient version of the 1.4 TFSI engine"
VAG are bad at this. They didn't do a DSG Superb, either, here in Ireland for fear of taking Passat sales, and you'll notice Skoda don't have a seven seater in the range presumably for fear of taking sales from VW and Seat. But I'm guesing many of those sales were actually lost to Mondeos, Zafiras and, increasingly, Hyundais. Daft!
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>> If I was getting desperate to spend a company car allowance, it'd make me not
>> buy the Audi. If they can't be bothered to even try to sell one to
>> me, what will they be like once I'm driving one?
I can see where you're coming from, but when I spoke to the woman from the dealership yesterday she did seem apologetic and genuinely trying to help. There might be reasons why the business dept can't just grab a nearly new car from the retail dept, or something.
When we went to Basingstoke Audi on Sunday, before I knew about the test drive procedure through the lease company, I told the receptionist that I was a company car customer and that I just wanted to have a look round an A1 (still a contender at the time) and A3 despite having no intention of buying one. Despite that, and bearing in mind they were busier than usual with customers coming in to collect their brand new 14 plates, a salesman made time to come over and talk to us and help us look over a couple of vehicles.
Contrast with the Ford dealer a bit later, where there were hardly any customers but a group of salesmen standing around chatting to each other, I told the senior salesman the same story and he made it clear he wasn't interested. Not unreasonable of course, and we were allowed to open up and look at the cars, but you can guess which manufacturer left us with the best impression.
I'm very wary of cutting off my nose to spite my face - I'm not giving up on Audi yet.
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 6 Mar 14 at 10:08
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>> >> I presume that the Octavia is bigger than you need
>> Shouldn't be as AFAIK it's based on the Golf platform, but I haven't looked at one closely.
The platform allows for different wheelbases etc. The old one was not as flexible but the Ocatvia was larger than a Golf back then as well.
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Indeed - there must be loads of nearly new ones that a test drive could be arranged in - even from a different dealer to the potential supplying one.
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BTW regarding one of the early suggestions of a 5 series, and me saying the allowance covered up to a 520d, er, not quite.
I think it's mainly because I wasn't allowing for the fact that the allowance has to cover insurance - basically I can scrape a 316 petrol without chipping in any extra, but even that would be half as much again as the A3 in tax. And the Arval quoter refuses to show me any 5 series :)
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See theres the difference - my missus is not really interested in what cars I buy!
Tell her to stop being a snob and believing perceived quality!!
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:)
Things is, I still haven't found anything that can match the A3 in terms of value for tax, Skoda or otherwise.
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Some cars ( no names no pack drill ) are a bit like Marks and Spencers jeans. As in nothing wrong with them really but you're just not going to go there are you?
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Is that like driving a 'GLAD TO BE GAY' car? Jeans or cars there are certain standards...
P.S. There's someone new in the Leadburn. Decent lad, used to own a BMW motorbike. No, It's not R.P.
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 8 Mar 14 at 21:43
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They re-built the Leadburn a few years back. The old one burned down after a vehicle crashed into it. You living near there now?
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Nah, know the new guy who is running it. Nice lad...Of course I would say that but knew him when he was doing a damned fine job in Brugge...
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I ran over a chicken once very near there. No idea why it decided to cross the road.
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>>No idea why it decided to cross the road.
Me neither, but he'll never the end of it now.
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Between you and Zero death is not on the register though is it ???
Death is a joke !!!
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I don't understand. Quite possibly I'm being dense.
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I'll refresh, there was a thread locked...
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=5&t=16616
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 8 Mar 14 at 22:59
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Sorry gmac, a barbecue and rose wine afternoon has clearly done for my ability to understand a basic conversation.
I still don't get it, perhaps I will when I re-read it tomorrow.
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I still don't understand. However, as being in a state of detachment seems to be my permanent condition these days I'll not dwell on it. And really don't need an update.
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>> Some cars ( no names no pack drill ) are a bit like Marks and Spencers jeans.
>> As in nothing wrong with them really but you're just not going to go there are you?
Err... I've got a pair of those... :o
(In my defence, my mum gave me a £20 M&S voucher for my birthday, so I used it for some cheap (for M&S) work clothes.)
Actually at the moment I'd be happy to take a test drive in anything - as mentioned above, it looks like the A3 isn't going to appear any time soon, and I've yet to hear from the Ford dealer who's supposed to be fixing me up with a Fiesta. Frustrating.
Last edited by: Focusless on Sat 8 Mar 14 at 21:47
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>> as mentioned above, it looks like the A3 isn't going to appear any time soon,
I cancelled the request for a test of an A3 last year because the Audi dealer took so long to get back to me
The VW dealer was much more helpful and the equivalent Golf turned out to be better equipped for the same outlay & performance so that is what I will be getting delivered in a couple of weeks as my next (last) company car
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>> the equivalent Golf turned out to be
>> better equipped for the same outlay & performance so that is what I will be
>> getting delivered in a couple of weeks as my next (last) company car
The Golf certainly looks like a good car. But the A3 is still my preference because I fancy the 1.4 140ps engine, due to its combination of performance and low tax - it's going to be cheaper for me than the 1.4 122ps model. The tax on the cheapest Golf with the same engine, the £23.4k GT, is £1310 compared to the £21k A3 SE's £1176. Granted the Golf is better equipped, but that's more than we want to pay.
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...and to quote Whatcar's comments on the GT Golf - "Choosing this version makes the Golf look very expensive, and the interior doesn't quite have the wow factor of an Audi A3's".
www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golf-hatchback/1-4-tsi-140-gt-act-5dr/summary/66297
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You could just order the car without a test drive, as the main criteria are the tax and the badge anyway;)
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I'm going to wait until at least I've had a go in the Fiesta, assuming that ever turns up. But after that...
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>> as the main criteria are the tax and the badge anyway;)
I object! :) The main criteria are the tax and that it's a good car.
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If it was just the badge I'd be getting a Merc A class! :)
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Uh huh, but you'll still not get away with a Fiesta, or maybe even a Golf. Mark my words ! You're Mr Audi man now for a cert. if it wasn't the badge we'd all have Skodas. Wouldn't make sense to do anything else.
I'd have another Mondy in a heartbeat but the silent stoic grief wouldn't be worth it
Not that the Audi is a bad thing mind !
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>> if it wasn't the badge we'd all have Skodas. Wouldn't make sense to do anything else.
Tsk.
I'm containing myself Humph. Aren't you proud of me?
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I'd have a Skoda no problem. Yeti especially. Some wouldn't. Audi drivers for example...
;-)
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The difference in tax is just £11 a month. Is that really a showstopper?
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If I preferred the Golf it wouldn't be, no. Can't rule out a change of mind though.
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I cancelled the request for a test of an A3 last year because the Audi dealer took so long to get back to me.
And I never did get to drive an A6 because the promised call from the dealer never came. This was at the Slough dealer that Avant considers relatively helpful. (Which, to be fair, it was in that I didn't, as I did at Reading, have to resist the urge to punch the salesman in the face every time he said 'sporty'.)
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I predict that your wife will persuade you to have the Audi. They're like that. No point in agonising about it anymore. Just get it ordered.
You have dangled the badge in front of her now. No way are you going to get away with a Fiesta no matter how much sense it makes !
;-)
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You're probably right Runf, although as you can tell I don't really need much persuading.
I'll try to get an update from the Audi and Ford dealers tomorrow, see if there's any chance in getting a drive in something(/anything!) sooner rather than later.
And I'm going to be quizzing my colleague to find out how he got on in the XF. I suspect that if he also has a 2nd test drive lined up, it's not going to be in a Fiesta :)
Last edited by: Focusless on Sun 9 Mar 14 at 17:30
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I am right and I'm only trying to save you the bother of having to think about it anymore ! Anyway, if you've got the chance to have something you fancy then why not? The way the modern world is, it could all go the other way one day anyway so why not treat yourself while it's on offer?
My company car doesn't make a a lot of sense fiscally, but to hell with that, I like it !
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>> I am right and I'm only trying to save you the bother of having to
>> think about it anymore !
Appreciate it :)
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>> in that I didn't, as I did at Reading, have to resist the urge to punch the salesman in the face every time he said 'sporty'
Heh heh... I'm not a very violent person really, but I would have had the same urge.
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Got a Fiesta (1.0 125ps TitX) coming some time tomorrow; mine to play with all day Thursday, going back Friday.
Probably won't do any great distance in it, but I am looking forward to giving it a go. I'm trying to keep an open mind - the £400+ per year saving in tax isn't exactly loose change, although it sounds less impressive as £35-ish per month.
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Focusless, you have an almost unique approach to company car selection in my experience.
As someone who will take delivery of the last of 11 company cars in the last 36 years, probably not as many as many on this forum, I have never seen anyone with such a focus(sorry :-)) on the cost.
I, and most of my work friends, have generally focussed on getting a nice car at a reasonable cost and working on the premise that new cars cost money and having a company car is by far the cheapest way to do it.
Not criticising your approach or denying your right to choose in any way, just an observation.
Hope you enjoy the new car
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>> Not criticising your approach or denying your right to choose in any way, just an
>> observation.
Nicely put cd, and an interesting observation.
I'm a bit surprised TBH - I'm sure I'm not the only person fortunate to be in this position for whom money is a bit tight and is therefore having to choose carefully. Perhaps others are more sensible and just decide straight away to play it safe, taking the cash alternative? Or is it because I'm Northern? :)
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 11 Mar 14 at 10:08
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Actually I've just re-read the vehicle delivery email notification from Ford, and it's put me right off:
"Please remember to make sure any personal property is back with its' rightful owner."
I mean, apostrophe after the s?? :)
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>> I'm a bit surprised TBH - I'm sure I'm not the only person fortunate to
>> be in this position for whom money is a bit tight and is therefore having
>> to choose carefully. Perhaps others are more sensible and just decide straight away to play
>> it safe, taking the cash alternative? Or is it because I'm Northern? :)
If money is your objective, in this scenario you always take the cash alternative and run a cheap car, making money out of it.
The main reason for choosing a brand new company car is to get a brand new car you could otherwise not have afforded.
And if you are not deeply impressed with the Fiesta I will eat my hat.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 11 Mar 14 at 10:59
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That's the problem - my primary objective is a new car, not (saving) money. So it's a question of how to achieve that objective while not becoming completely skint.
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 11 Mar 14 at 11:10
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>>
>> If money is your objective, in this scenario you always take the cash alternative and
>> run a cheap car, making money out of it.
>>
>> The main reason for choosing a brand new company car is to get a brand
>> new car you could otherwise not have afforded.
>>
>>
Like he said: I always took the money and ran old Omegas/Vectras; the money saved paid for a decent conservatory which we're still making use of a decade later.
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It is a tough choice. However, there is the 'make hay while the sun shines' argument too.
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If a new car is what you want, then so be it, as advised, it's probably the cheapest way into a new car.
Trouble is, a new car becomes old very quickly.
Out of interest, what is the total cost to you over the period? - the A3 you are looking at for example
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>> Out of interest, what is the total cost to you over the period? - the
>> A3 you are looking at for example
The BIK tax on an A3 Sportback 1.4 TFSI SE 140ps for 2013/14 is £1176 (using comcar.co.uk/newcar/companycar/taxcalc/g1select.cfm ), so that will be my cost as I understand it.
Actually it will be a bit more by the time I've added on metallic paint and the middle of the range stereo.
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>> The BIK tax on an A3 Sportback 1.4 TFSI SE 140ps for 2013/14 is £1176
>> (using comcar.co.uk/newcar/companycar/taxcalc/g1select.cfm ), so that will be my cost as I understand it.
>>
>> Actually it will be a bit more by the time I've added on metallic paint
>> and the middle of the range stereo.
>>
Plus the loss of cash alternative I assume?
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>> It is a tough choice. However, there is the 'make hay while the sun shines'
>> argument too.
>>
Exactly, I can respect the save money choices but I have never regretted my choice and have had a great deal of pleasure from driving something with a good level of comfort, features & performance as my daily driver. I will miss it with the next choice in a few years which will definitely be something recent but will almost certainly not be something brand new
While at the same time having a lot of satisfaction from driving something, old, slow and full of character as my leisure & holidays transport
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A Mazda3 Fastback in 150PS diesel SE-L nav trim will be a lot cheaper than an Audi A3. Even the Sport Nav with leather will be cheaper. And better kitted out. Fastback has emissions of 104g/km for CO2.
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>> A Mazda3 Fastback in 150PS diesel SE-L nav trim will be a lot cheaper than
>> an Audi A3.
Not necessarily on a lease and therefore as a company car. List price and thus BiK payment will be less but the total deal and company car cost per month may not be.
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>> A Mazda3 Fastback in 150PS diesel SE-L nav trim will be a lot cheaper than
>> an Audi A3.
Tax on that 'basic' SE is a bit more than the Audi (£1228 vs £1176), and the SE-L is £1324.
Haven't looked into the kit. The What Car review doesn't particularly rate it, although it's offset to some extent by the relatively poor performance of the non-turbo petrol engines (in their opinion of course). It isn't obviously a better bet for us than the Audi given we don't need the diesel economy, although it looks like a fine car.
EDIT: Mazda CO2 % band = 16, Audi = 14
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 11 Mar 14 at 13:35
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A friend went from a Porsche Panamera diesel to a Citroen DS3 diesel as his company car recently. The Porsche was costing him over £600 a month in bik and the Citroen costs £67 a month !
Incomparable cars of course but hey...
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Not such good news on the A3 test drive - the nice lady in Swindon has said the best she can do is an S-line (= top) spec but not until 14th April, which is after the deadline to decide whether we're taking a car or not. (Don't know whether deadline could be extended.)
If the Fiesta is as good as predicted, so much so that even Mrs F is tempted, I think we'd try to wangle a drive in an A3 as retail customers. Otherwise we'd probably go without and take our chances, given all the favourable reviews I've read, and watched on youtube.
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If the A3 in S-Line trim has the S-Line sport suspension then ride likely to be firm. Can you get the A3 S-Line with the SE suspension like you can with the A4?
I can think of a few cars I'd prefer over the current Fiesta and Focus. The Focus is improved now they have got rid of the dated mobile phone inspired dashboard (who came up with that styling just as everyone switched to a touch interface on mobiles!!?!).
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Yes, both the Sport and S-lines can be specified with SE suspension as a no-cost option.
Not sure yet whether we'd go for the SE - the Sport does add bigger and better looking alloys, comes with climate as standard, has a sort of driving mode select control (sporty, comfort etc.), and has various trim enhancements which look nice. Not much extra per month; but the sports front seats might cause Mrs F entry and exit problems due to her hip. We'd have to check those out at a dealer first.
EDIT: to clarify, I asked for an SE to test
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 11 Mar 14 at 15:59
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I have been wondering if the Easyjet ethos would hit the motoring sector. Perhaps your friend Runfer D'Hills, is a pioneer and conversations at dinner parties this season will turn to how cheaply you're doing your motoring?
Last edited by: Paul Robinson on Tue 11 Mar 14 at 15:22
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Dinner parties - as Audi owners I suppose that's something we'll have to start doing? :)
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Maybe so, I love my E class estate but I'd more than happily run around in something more tax efficient provided it was as practical and at least pleasing enough to drive.
Maybe they'll do a Fiat 500 XXXXL !
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>> Maybe so
Your place or mine?
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I wonder how much the A3 1.4TFSi 140PS SE is on Focusless' car scheme? Ours has it as a monthly rental of £289pm (not including any options so solid paint) and list price of £21036. The S Line is £332 but is better kitted out. Three options for suspension on that: (1) delete sports suspension, (2) sports suspension or (3) S Line sports suspension.
Comparing to similar VAG 1.4T cars:
- Golf 1.4T GT 5DR £309pm 112g/km CO2 £23436
- Leon 1.4TSI FR 5DR £288pm 119g/km CO2 £20625
So the A3 SE is cheaper than these 'comparable' cars except the S Line is closer in spec to them I guess.
The Ford Fiesta 1.0 125PS 5DR in Titanium X trim is a lot cheaper. £17230 list price, monthly rental of £245 and emissions of 99g/km for CO2. Compared to my Passat CC for the upcoming tax year, I'd be £131pm better off on BIK taxation alone. And another £100pm on top for having a cheaper car.... Not going to happen though.
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>> I wonder how much the A3 1.4TFSi 140PS SE is on Focusless' car scheme?
I don't know what Arval charge my company, but on the Arval website they quote £222.50 ex vat and (presumably) without any of the extras we get such as servicing, insurance etc.
I don't have to worry about the lease cost - basically either I am allowed it or I'm not, although it is possible to contribute up to 15(?)% extra to extend your choice. I just have to pay the tax.
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Lease cost is a factor for me - as I can contribute up to 33% on top. But whatever I don't spend I get back in my salary. And if I go for a car emitting 120g/km of CO2 or lower then my allowance gets boosted a bit.
Something I have spotted because you mention A6 in the thread is the new more powerful, cleaner A6 Ultra's are showing on my list now. Manuals to follow. Hmm would I be happy being no better off than in the Passat CC if I got an A6???? But also the Audi A4, A5 Coupe and Sportback are getting the Ultra engines later this year.... makes BIK lower as they may get down to 104g/km.
Servicing/tyres/road tax/etc in our scheme is covered in our base price. Not sure if the company pays any extra though.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 11 Mar 14 at 16:27
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>> Maybe they'll do a Fiat 500 XXXXL !
We could write on the back "glad to be FAT UGLY and gay"
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>> A friend went from a Porsche Panamera diesel to a Citroen DS3 diesel as his
>> company car recently. The Porsche was costing him over £600 a month in bik and
>> the Citroen costs £67 a month !
>>
>> Incomparable cars of course but hey...
>>
Well, yes and no. They both do the same job, getting people and 'stuff' from A to B, so theya re comparable IMHO. The Porsche doesn't do time travel or drive itself so I don't personally see any fundamental difference in function.
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BTW thought I was taking a bit of a gamble with this company car lark - stepson has just come back from a test drive in an 8 year old diesel Alfa 147, on which he's placed a deposit :o
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Is now the time to say that, in the past, I've ordered any number of company cars without actually having test driven them. Never been disappointed, but then perhaps I'm more easily swayed by the style and kit on offer ;-)
I'd just stick in an order for a bright red A3 and be done with it :-)
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>> Is now the time to say that, in the past, I've ordered any number of
>> company cars without actually having test driven them.
Good to hear that Peter. And we're coming from a 7 year old 1.3 Colt - it's not like the new car has big boots to fill :)
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Add up the insurance, tyres, servicing, tax, depreciation on your current car, and I am sure you will find you are close to the tax on the A3 - my 2001 Xantia standing costs are nearly £1k.
As I've said before, I find it hard to believe anyone turns down a co car - if I could have a new, maintained, taxed, insured car for £1200 / year - I'd have 2 tomorrow!!
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>> Add up the insurance, tyres, servicing, tax, depreciation on your current car, and I am
>> sure you will find you are close to the tax on the A3 - my
>> 2001 Xantia standing costs are nearly £1k.
Depreciation? On a 2001 Xantia? Thats what I call depreciated.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 12 Mar 14 at 08:22
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>>Depreciation? On a 2001 Xantia? Thats what I call depreciated.
Cost £3k, kept it 6.5 years, 'deprecation' £450/year. OK, it fell off a cliff in the first 2 years :-), but that's still the saving costs to replace it (just bought an 07 307 HDi for £3k)
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>> Add up the insurance, tyres, servicing, tax, depreciation on your current car, and I am
>> sure you will find you are close to the tax on the A3
Undoubtedly - but you need some serious man-maths to cover the £200+ extra I'd get per month instead if I didn't take the car!
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>> >> Add up the insurance, tyres, servicing, tax, depreciation on your current car, and I
>> am
>> >> sure you will find you are close to the tax on the A3
>>
>> Undoubtedly - but you need some serious man-maths to cover the £200+ extra I'd get
>> per month instead if I didn't take the car!
>>
This is what I was getting at further up the thread - So actual cost to you per year is what - around £3800?
Again, Undoubtedly the cheapest way to run a new car, but still a lot for a small family hatch
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>> So actual cost to you per year is what - around £3800?
It would be less for the Fiesta, a bit more for the A3. But yes, put it like that it does seem like a lot...
On the other hand, I'm not currently getting the £200+ car alternative, so compared to where I am now it's just the tax (~£1k depending on vehicle) which is easier to balance against current cur running costs. And we have been promised* bonuses which we didn't get with our previous employer. Hence my overall financial position should be ok. Really.
* as in 'well we've given them for the last 15 years...'
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Fiesta has arrived! Looks nice in white. First drive was taking delivery man to the station - lots of school traffic/kids around and 30mph limit max so didn't get a chance to give it some welly. But impressed by the refinement and generally easy-to-drive feel. Didn't feel dissimilar to the old 2.0 Focus in terms of low speed grunt (similar 0-60 times).
Less impressed by the dash - it's top-of-the-range Titanium X spec, but the large central radio control area is shiny black plastic. Looks a bit cheap. Leather sets felt comfortable, and roomy enough for our needs with a decent size boot.
Was aware of the start/stop on the drive back - engine is very quiet at tick-over so didn't notice it stopping, but did hear it starting up again when depressing the clutch. Seemed to work fine, but the man had shown me where the button was to disable it and I did, for no good reason really.
The 'wow!' moment was getting back home, pulling onto the drive forwards then reversing back towards the garage door to leave it pointing forwards for next excursion. On reversing, there's a camera somewhere at the back that shows you what you're about to hit on the satnav screen, along with superimposed lines indicating where the wheels are going. Cool!
So far so good...
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From the start of this thread I've been thinking just get the A3 it's a lovely car. We have two contacts with them and one with a newish Fiesta. It's nothing to do with badge snob value... they really are a class above the Fiesta and just feel so much nicer to be in.
i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/focushj/2014-03-12093305_zps9d50c9f0.jpg
Whatever the extra cost of the A3 it's worth it not to sit behind that dash for several years.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 12 Mar 14 at 12:29
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Thanks Fen - I think we're still heading for an A3, but no harm in trying an alternative.
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Focusless, I have kind of lost track through this thread but if memory serves me right you don't actually drive the car much and its mostly for the missus to drive into town?
Surely the money option wold be the best bet here? I would normally always go for company car option especially if doing high miles but if you don't do high miles and will rarely drive it, an you are looking at something like a Fiesta, then why don't you take the money option and buy one that you will be able to pay off and keep as your own?
If for instance you had to go for this
www.motorpoint.co.uk/VehicleAdvert/FORD/FIESTA/453890
or this
www.motorpoint.co.uk/VehicleAdvert/AUDI/A3/459127
how would that work financially (and I just lazily plucked those two cars, nbot sure if tey ae same spec etc)
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>> how would that work financially (and I just lazily plucked those two cars, not sure
>> if tey ae same spec etc)
Doesn't alter your argument but being pedantic - I think the Fiesta must be a 100ps model based on its 0-60 rather than the 125ps on my drive, and we wouldn't go for a diesel A3 given our mileage.
Anyway - I have looked a bit into that sort of option. A £12.5k loan over 4 years (the lease term) would be £285pm, compared to the £340pm approx the company car (A3) would 'cost' me ie. tax + (no) car allowance. And of course at the end of that time I'd own the car.
Against that is the cost of servicing, insurance, road fund, breakdown (anything else?), plus the less quantifiable cost of not having a new car for the brief period you can tell the difference between new and nearly-new.
You're correct in that Mrs F does use the car more than me, but she's as keen to have a nice shiny new car as I am, so it doesn't really matter who uses it most. FWIW I almost always do the driving when we are in the car together, including longer trips. (We're off to Newcastle later in the year, and I don't really fancy doing the ~660 mile round trip in the Colt!)
So yes, I admit I'm almost certainly not taking the more financially astute option. But as esteemed philosopher Runfer D'Hills once said, 'make hay while the sun shines'.
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I like having a company car, and typically its the least hassle option and I prefer, and will pay for, less hassle.
However, when working out the financials it is worth considering whether or not you would buy a new car as an alternative. Might you go for an ex demonstrator, pre registered or even up to 12 months old? It might make quite a different comparison.
Comparing a new company car against a new car that you buy is one thing, if that is genuinely what you would do.
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>> Might you go for an ex demonstrator, pre
>> registered or even up to 12 months old? It might make quite a different comparison.
Assuming I've understood you correctly, that's what those cars are above, and what I'm basing the £12.5k loan on.
EDIT: actually the Audi is £14.3k, although it's older at 2012
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 12 Mar 14 at 15:09
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You did understand me correctly. However I didn't read your earlier notes properly. Sorry.
I'll get my coat.
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All input gratefully accepted :)
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In which case, given that I haven't read this thread properly, I thought this interesting.
www.cavendishmaine.com/cash-or-car-%E2%80%93-which-is-best-for-you
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Thanks Mark, although on first reading I'm put off by the mention of business mileage and mileage allowances. I don't do any business miles, so AFAIK that doesn't come into it.
I'll try to adjust the figures accordingly.
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>> www.cavendishmaine.com/cash-or-car-%E2%80%93-which-is-best-for-you
"[Notes] 2 Based on 36 year old male living in RG4"
So was that you, or Alanovic? :)
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Me? 36? I wish!!
RG4 could have been me, but not in recent years. Is Alanovic a whipper-snapper?
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>> Me? 36? I wish!!
Ditto. Fair few years the wrong side of that.
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>> The 'wow!' moment was getting back home, pulling onto the drive forwards then reversing back
>> towards the garage door to leave it pointing forwards for next excursion. On reversing, there's
>> a camera somewhere at the back that shows you what you're about to hit on
>> the satnav screen, along with superimposed lines indicating where the wheels are going. Cool!
>>
>> So far so good...
>>
Enjoy it while you can. If it's anything like the reversing camera on our S-Max the screen will soon start flashing bright green!
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:)
Just took dog to the park in it for his walk to see what he thinks, and he likes it too. Route back included a 60mph section starting with traffic lights, and I was at the front, so was able to stretch its legs a bit. It does gain speed very easily and quietly, obviously not that quick in absolute terms given its 0-62 of 9.4, but still impressive.
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>>but she's as keen to have a nice shiny new car as I am
Unarguable reason for choosing the company car.
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Agreed.
Whilst it may not make sense from a financial efficiency perspective, if you can afford it then a brand new car, driven only by yourself, is a lovely thing to have.
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I want, is an unarguable standpoint.
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>> I want, is an unarguable standpoint.
But isn't it great when your life reaches a point where you can use it as a valid driver of choice or expenditure.
Its presumably what we all work(ed) towards.
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Sort of. When you do get in that position those things you thought you always wanted don't seem to matter that much. If you can have pretty much any car you find practically any car will do.
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True enough CG.
However, its an awful lot easier to mess around in cheap cars, which I do a lot, when you know that if the sticky stuff hits the whirly thing you can simply go and buy another.
That's quite different to the days when if my car broke then life became an instant disaster.
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Ultimately finance is a vital, but not the only, consideration when acquiring a car. Nothing wrong with the heart making part of the decision alongside the head.
I know there are long delivery delays on the new, much-in-demand A3 - but surely you can get a test-drive sooner than - mid-April, wasn't it? Try Audi Newbury and say you're a private buyer. Or you could apply for a test drive on Audi's website and see what happens.
That's not to say the Fiesta isn't a good car - it is, and it my well suit you. But in your position I'd want to try the A3 as well before committing.
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>> I know there are long delivery delays on the new, much-in-demand A3 - but surely
>> you can get a test-drive sooner than - mid-April, wasn't it?
I filled in a form on the Reading Audi dealer site earlier requesting some figures on buying an A3 on a PCP to see how that compared. The probably automated reply which came back shortly after asked if I'd like a test drive, so that might be a way to get one sooner rather than later, ideally on Friday when I've got the day off.
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 12 Mar 14 at 22:24
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The test drives via lease companies are usually for longer and will be unaccompanied. Whereas the type of test drive you get as a private buyer is usually very limited. But long enough to figure out if you like it or not.
Our lease company (Lex) only allows us two 48 hour test drives. I need to be creative to try some more cars before I get to get one for a longer test drive. Even the Mazda6 needs at least two different cars to try some permutations: Saloon vs. Estate and 150PS vs 175PS diesel engine. So two cars are needed.
If I was happy to be no better/worse off than I am now... the A6 Ultra TDIs are in the mix. I like the look of them and the S Line (on standard suspension) has decent specification. Or an A3 would save plenty more.
Sometimes having too many options is a pain isn't it Focusless. If you had to choose a Ford or Vauxhall it would be easier!
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>> Sometimes having too many options is a pain isn't it Focusless.
You should see me trying to find somewhere to park in an empty car park.
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Perhaps it's just me, but I've ordered almost all of my company cars after very little thought at all, once I'd decided on the basic format - estate/saloon, manual/auto, petrol/diesel, function>style or style >function :-).
I've certainly never bothered with an extended test drive, and as mentioned earlier usually with no test drive at all, though almost always with some first, or well respected second hand experience. Now perhaps that means I've either been impulsive (with someone else's money....) or just played it safe and gone for the obvious choices. The fact that most have ended up coming from the usual default choices - Audi, BMW, MB in, as a quick tot-up confirms, roughly equal proportions - probably indicates the latter!
I've never had any regrets about what I've ended up with though. For example, with hindsight the doom blue manual C180 Esprit Estate in '98 was not as good objectively, as the BMW equivalent. But it was a Mercedes ;-) And it had a bigger boot. In any case, it was just an 18 month lease, so what was the worst that could happen. It was followed by an Audi A6 1.8T, which was beaten by the E39 5 series pretty comprehensively in most comparisons, but I loved the 'chess cloth'interior!! Likewise the '03 Audi A4 Avant was probably bettered by the contemporary C class and 3 series. But I preferred the look of the Audi. The '05 BMW 330 was one of the first E90s to be delivered in the UK, so no one i knew had even driven one. But how bad could it be? Life's too short to invest too much thought into choosing a company car - you'll never have to worry abut any of the normal, practical car stuff, so just chose something you like the look of and that'll drive OK :-)
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Last three cars have been: Mondeo TDCi MkIII Ghia, Mazda6 Sport, Passat CC GT. They were all the only test drives I did as I'd narrowed things down. Mondeo was the worst of these but we could only have Ford, Vauxhall (and other Ford/GM group cars) at the time.
So I kind of didn't need the test drive. I am surprised Focusless is not thinking of trying a Mazda3 of some sort.... will be cheaper than the Audi.
I like the size of car I have so Mazda6 is top of the list and will save money. But due to Focusless I see the new Ultra version of the Audi A6 will be cheaper than my calculations. Monthly rentals. So for the same I will be paying on the CC next month I could have an A6 S-Line.... Man maths doesn't come into it - it will be the same cost. Or have a Mazda6 Sport 2.2d 150PS in Soul Red and be better off by about £80.
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>>However, its an awful lot easier to mess around in cheap cars, which I do a lot, when you
>>know that if the sticky stuff hits the whirly thing you can simply go and buy another.
Oh so true. I've been in that fortunate position ever since I got my first car aged 27 (!).
I like to be able to lend my car to people; not care when girlfriends drive them into posts; not worry when they get scratched in a carpark etc. etc.
And whilst I could probably in theory afford almost any car, I couldn't afford to 'simply go and buy another' if it got scratched.
So I mess around in 'old' things.
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>>>However, its an awful lot easier to mess around in cheap cars, which I do a lot, when you know that if the sticky stuff hits the whirly thing you can simply go and buy another.
Yes +1 on that from me... when the car is your own responsibility anyway. I have found running the Alfa quite liberating in that it doesn't matter what happens to it as it would be economic to scrap right now if there was the need.
However when company cars were on offer I always grabbed the chance to take them and up spec as far as the salary grade allowed. Before company cars I had many years on a mileage scheme and bought either expensive used cars or new ones for a bit of fun rather than trying to make/save money from the scheme. Hence my opinion Focusless should just get the A3 on order... test drive or no test drive.
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>> Hence my opinion Focusless should just get the A3 on order... test drive or no test
>> drive.
That's probably what's going to happen, possibly over the weekend. We do need to at least look at them though before deciding which spec to go for - I think the Sport (minus the Sport suspension) is worth the extra few quid a month for the nicer looking wheels, climate and a few other bits and bobs, but we've got to make sure the seats are ok (for Mrs F's hip).
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 13 Mar 14 at 11:18
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>
>> Hence
>> my opinion Focusless should just get the A3 on order... test drive or no test
>> drive.
Nothing worse, however than being stuck with a car you dislike for 3 years. If it was yours you could trade it in or sell it. Cant do that with a co car.
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>> Nothing worse, however than being stuck with a car you dislike for 3 years.
...and the rest! (4 year lease)
If it didn't get so many good reviews in the press I'd be more worried; I'm hoping they can't all be wrong.
Possibility of getting a drive tomorrow.
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>> >
>> >> Hence
>> >> my opinion Focusless should just get the A3 on order... test drive or no
>> test
>> >> drive.
>>
>> Nothing worse, however than being stuck with a car you dislike for 3 years. If
>> it was yours you could trade it in or sell it. Cant do that with
>> a co car.
>>
Particularly in terms of personal/subjective things like seat comfort, where reviews are worth diddly. Friend of mine bought an A3 about 4 years ago and it darned near crippled him.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Thu 13 Mar 14 at 12:20
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>> Nothing worse, however than being stuck with a car you dislike for 3 years. If
>> it was yours you could trade it in or sell it. Cant do that with
>> a co car.
>>
So true!
A few years ago I was buying a Citroen C4 Grand Picasso. I tested one in 'VTR+' trim and found it fitted the bill perfectly. But when it came to buying, I fancied an 'Exclusive' for the added goodies and self-levelling rear suspension (it was a Citroen, after all!). What I did not realise was that the 'Exclusive' had different seats to the VTR+, and ones which gave me chronic back-ache (something I've never had before or since, and a shame because the rest of the car was fine).
Being a private purchase I could sell it on, but had it been a co. car, I dread to think what I would have done! Resign, probably!
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>> but had it been a co.
>> car, I dread to think what I would have done! Resign, probably!
>>
In the days of "proper" company cars, you just arranged for the next new starter to have it and ordered yourself a new car.
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Just looking at the new MINI Cooper D, as road tested by HJ:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/mini/mini-cooper-d-2014-road-test/
0-62 in 9.2 with 80.7mpg in a stylish package, working out at only £853 per year BIK tax. Or even more appealing for us, 7.9/62.8/£793 for the petrol.
However it's currently only available with 3 doors, hence it's not an option (company rule as well as one of our unwritten ones). Probably would be too small even with the extra doors, but I can see it being a popular choice as a 2nd car.
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>>> Probably would be too small even with the extra doors
That's very likely. The closest contact of ours who bought one on image/style only ran it for a few months before she "traded it for a proper car" as she put it.
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Good to know Fen, thanks.
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I get the impression you really want an A3. If you get anything else, you'll most likely spend the four years thinking of it as a "not-quite-the-audi-we-wanted", irrespective of how good it is.
Why not focus (sorry!) on how much A3 you can get at least cost to yourself, and go for it. There were something like 37 variants built on the A3/Golf platform at one time, so literally millions of them on the road - how bad can it be?
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>>>Nothing worse, however than being stuck with a car you dislike for 3 years
No-one who was in the market for a hatch of that size could dislike an A3. You might like another comparable make/model for a specific aspect... but you could never dislike the A3 because they are a very rounded car in all respects.
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>> >>>Nothing worse, however than being stuck with a car you dislike for 3 years
>>
>> No-one who was in the market for a hatch of that size could dislike an
>> A3. You might like another comparable make/model for a specific aspect... but you could never
>> dislike the A3 because they are a very rounded car in all respects.
>>
>
I find the ride is a little hard.
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>>>I find the ride is a little hard.
It's fine on a smooth road though.
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>> >>>I find the ride is a little hard.
>>
>> It's fine on a smooth road though.
>>
Where is that? :)
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One of my colleagues is about 6'4" and ran a Mk1 MINI Cooper S for about 4 years. The sight of him pouring his legs in, and then driving it with knees nearly above the steering wheel, was something else to behold!
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Well we've decided to go for the A3, despite not getting a test drive. We were going to do the order tonight, but I do have one query.
My company will cover us to drive the car on their insurance. Is that going to be an additional tax on top of the figure the lease company give for the car? Feels like it should be, but I can't see any mention of this in the company car policy.
Of course I can ask the benefits people on Monday, but if anyone can give a definitive answer now it means we can get the order off and start thinking about other things :)
Last edited by: Focusless on Fri 14 Mar 14 at 19:53
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I've never heard of company car insurance being treated as a taxable benefit, so its very unlikely it'll cost you any more. But I wouldn't put anything past HR departments nowadays ;-)
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Never has been in the past.
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Assuming that it is like any scheme I have ever been part of then the insurance is not free, and thus not a benefit. It is incorporated within the BIK calculation and pushes through to your monthly car "payments".
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Ah ok - thanks NoF (and Peter - looking forward to the A3 but it's no A8!).
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Really? P11D BIK calculations for every company car I've been provided with have been a function of the list price of the car , the tax band (driven by emissions) and, where provided, the fuel benefit. I've never seen anything for car insurance on a P11D. Health insurance, yes. But not car.
Unless you meant insurance is free, and not what's posted? I'm genuinely confused NFM2R!
Last edited by: PeterS on Fri 14 Mar 14 at 20:10
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>> Assuming that it is like any scheme I have ever been part of then the
>> insurance is not free, and thus not a benefit. It is incorporated within the BIK
>> calculation and pushes through to your monthly car "payments".
But the BiK is merely calculated on the Full list (on the road) price. Insurance does not get calculated, and it would be difficult because its a variable cost.
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I think we'd better check with HR on Monday, just to be on the safe side.
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I've had company cars since 1997 I think. Insurance was never on top of any allowance etc. Scheme used to be run in-house but it was outsourced. And moved between a few companies with some original staff TUPE'd from one to another.
Insurance is likely to be included. And should automatically cover partners and usually children above a certain age living at the home address too. Larger fleets usually take out 3rd party cover and 'self-insure' the cars. Any damage or theft is covered by your cost centre if it's not covered by someone else's insurance..... when my Golf was stolen my cost centre had to cover the cost of the car.
Sat in an A4, A5 and A6 earlier today. A4/A5 didn't feel as special as I thought they might. A6 in S-Line trim was very nice.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 14 Mar 14 at 20:22
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It is assumed that a company car is provided with insurance, maintenance etc. That total benefit is taken into account in the establishment of the tax rates.
The benefit is deemed to consist of all those parts and the benefit in kind assessment addresses the "car" as a complete package.
This may give you a little more comfort....
www.whatcar.com/car-advice/running/company-car-tax/3487415
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>>Well we've decided to go for the A3
That's a surprise.........
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>>>decided to go for the A3, despite not getting a test drive. We were going to do the order tonight, but I do have one query.
The insurance isn't an issue... just order the A3 and we can all get on with our lives.
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There I are a couple of cost factors you haven't built in of course. If you get an A3 you'll need to budget for excessive quantities of hair gel, an assortment of ties with big knots, some designer shades and of course daily purchases of unfeasably expensive take away coffee to place in the cup holders.
Then there's the colour decision. You may find that you now spend a lot of time working on that only to realise that ultimately it has to be a black one. White is on trend but it'll come to you that it's not quite right, silver is practical but not really edgy enough, red can be nice in fairness but black is just cooler.
Enjoy !
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I wore a tie with a big knot in the 1960's, a kipper tie, and it was bright purple.
I didn't have an A3 or any car bcak then of course, but I did have a Reg Harris ;)
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Bloke goes into a fancy dress shop in Birmingham.
' I'm looking for a kipper tie ' he says.
' There's a cafe next door mate ' says the shopkeeper.
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>> If you get an A3 you'll need to budget for excessive quantities of hair gel
Ha -you haven't seen my hair :)
>> Then there's the colour decision.
Yes, I have been wondering about that. I was hoping I would get a directive from Mrs F, but she says it's up to me...
>> ultimately it has to be a black one.
>> White is on trend but it'll come to you that it's not quite right,
>> silver is practical but not really edgy enough, red can be nice in fairness but
>> black is just cooler.
While bowing to your superior knowledge in this sort of area Runf, I don't remember seeing a black A3; not sure it suits the car? And stepson's new 147 is black - 2 black cars on the drive would be a bit depressing.
I've see white A1s and they look nice, but I agree that it wouldn't look right on the bigger car. The Colt is silver - don't want the same again. Red - there's a nice (pearlescent) red one in the brochure, and it does look rather good. But there's a couple of other options I've been considering - Mrs F has previously said she likes the blue, and I agree it does work, although I feel it's more of an A4 colour. Then one of the greys makes the car look good in an understated way.
I think ('misano') red is the current favourite, but blue and grey are still in with a shout...
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Might be worth checking what colours you can get, metallic colours add to the lease cost in our scheme and probably others
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...I don't remember seeing a black A3.
Either you don't use the M4, Blurry, or you've been driving with your eyes shut. Or perhaps you've just stopped noticing them, the way you don't spot individual stalks in a hay meadow. They're everywhere!
Metallic was free of charge in the scheme that supplied me my (green) Volvo, but it will add to the price on which the tax value is based.
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>> ...I don't remember seeing a black A3.
>>
>> They're everywhere!
Well it's true I don't use the M4 very often, but I have been looking out for them in the last few weeks. Oh well, I stand corrected. Still don't fancy it though...
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>> Might be worth checking what colours you can get, metallic colours add to the lease
>> cost in our scheme and probably others
Yeah, the Arval (company-specific) quoter allows you to specify all the options including paint and get an accurate figure. We've been looking at the brochure and using the Audi online configurator too.
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I'd go with blue.
I had a red car, it seemed like a really good idea for about a month. Then it simply annoyed me standing out like that.
On the other hand silver and/or grey are too far the other way towards bland, for me.
My Volvo was blue. I always liked the way it looked.
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Next door but one have a black A3, next door but two the other way have a red one and currently Mrs F's friend is here with a met blue one (mid shade). The black one looks ordinary, the red one OK but a bit orange after my Alfa... the mid met blue looks nice.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sat 15 Mar 14 at 16:53
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Daughter and husband have a blue S3, this colour. I like it.
goo.gl/oLyto4
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>> Daughter and husband have a blue S3, this colour. I like it.
Me too - but the 'scuba' blue on my (slightly slower) A3 options list is darker than that.
Actually a quick google has brought up this useful site:
www.carwow.co.uk/blog/Audi-A3-Colours-Guide-511
Beluga brown anyone? :)
I'm coming round to the blue, and I think that's Mrs F's preference as well, so it would be a good safe choice.
Last edited by: Focusless on Sun 16 Mar 14 at 12:42
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There's a Beluga Brown A3 a few doors along from me. Looks nice - a bit darker than MB's brownish Indium Silver. I'd still go for the blue, though - especially if I could have a lame interior.
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Not the greatest choice of 'colours'. I'd go for the Blue too, The wine Red maybe, but I think it's too dark, would need to see it. We had a denim Blue A3 back in 2002, loved the colour, car went well too. 1.8 petrol.
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The BIK charge includes everything that has to be paid for when providing a car; so it includes insurance. (Fuel is a separate charge.)
What it does not include is anything that is provided for the driver. So congestion charge - which is a function on where it is driven - if paid for by the company constitutes an additional benefit in kind. (Unless you are driving into the congestion zone for work, of course (but not commuting, obviously).)
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...especially if I could have a lame interior.
Not sure how that got through. Was meant to be 'pale' - but come to think of it, lamé would be a lot less boring than black.
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Brown or shiraz for me. Tough call.
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Well today was going to be the day I actually put the order in. But I was chatting to my colleague about his drive in the XF, and he said there's a problem. Basically as he understands it there's no guarantee we'll get new cars, as opposed to pool cars, and everything's a bit up in the air because our company is going through the process of choosing their leasing company for the next 5 years.
I've sent an email asking for clarification, but it's a bit of a downer. The good news is that we might yet hit 300 posts in the thread :)
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Surely you should stick the order in anyway? It might or might not get ordered, but if you don't stick in the order......
Do you mean you'd have to take a car from a pool of returned vehicles or that you would not have your own vehicle and simply take one as and when needed?
Because if the first I once got a lovely BMW way above my station because it came from the pool of vehicles returned by departing employees.
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>> everything's a bit up in the air because our company is going through the process of choosing
>> their leasing company for the next 5 years.
If they don't have a chosen lease company, how can you even have access to a system to get quotes on one? Sounds like they haven't a clue to be honest. I know you mention Arval but it sounds like it might not be them that's chosen.
And if you can put in an order, the monthly rentals might be different. And they might not even offer Audi's on the signed deal.
As for pool cars, if this is like our company, new joiners are usually allocated cars available because people have left the company and their car has a while to run on the lease. The cars are not returned to the lease company so re-allocation is a must. To give those of us due for new cars an incentive to take an existing, available car, we can get one two car grades higher without paying anything extra. But I can get one two car grades higher if I get one with lower emissions - so little incentive. And then there's the 'what cars are available in October' whereas I need to order one in good time.
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>> >> everything's a bit up in the air because our company is going through the
>> process of choosing
>> >> their leasing company for the next 5 years.
>>
>> If they don't have a chosen lease company, how can you even have access to
>> a system to get quotes on one?
Sorry - they're looking into changing from the current company to someone else. But I don't know the details; this is just what I picked up from my colleague.
(Got to catch train now...)
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I'd put the order in anyway, and get on terms with whoever is responsible for fleet matters in your company if you can, or at least with somebody who knows what's happening.
When it comes to who is going to get the cast-offs, one way of selecting the recipients could be to start with those who haven't put their choice in.
It can as noted cut both ways if you get a reallocated car. I once ordered a Cavalier and got a very tidy top of the range Carlton estate.
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I also know people who have done well out of reallocated surplus cars - the best was someone who ordered a BMW 520d and was given an almost new S class Mercedes. His employers said it was cheaper for him to have it and for them to pay his extra BIK tax than the cost of terminating the lease!
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Yeah, we *used* to get good terms on "returnees" - cars that were well out of your band were discounted rather than pay termination charges.
However the company started terminating so many employees leaving gluts of returned cars at each 1/4 end they could never reallocate them, so they just started returning them.
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>>His employers said it was cheaper for him to have it and for them to pay his extra BIK tax
On the other hand, when you are allocated a much more expensive car and then suffer the extra BIK yourself (cos that's what the rules are) then you're stuffed.
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Likewise I once got a three month old 525i because someone left and I was only 'entitled' to a 2.0 Sierra. Can work in your favour.
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But the BIK charge might be costly. Back when you had the Sierra, it was based on mileage and list price. Now it's emissions and list price.
The best trade-ups I got was when I had a car stolen. So I officially had a hire car (did for a bit) and taxed accordingly. In that time I had an A4 1.8SE, A4 1.8T Sport (worth over £25k in 2000) and a Passat 1.8T Sport. All taxed as if I had a 1.4 hire car. Them were the rules back then. None was allocated to me as a car so couldn't be taxed as if they were mine...
... and when my car was written off as a loss... got the tax back on paying for a Golf GTi and the monthly rental difference too :-)
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 17 Mar 14 at 22:19
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I had a Mondeo Ghia X for 9 months when I worked in Safeway, on secondment covering a regional role.
Just thinking back, I was never ever taxed or had any adjustments made at all whilst I had it. Can't even remember ever having to take a note of private / business mileage? Just fuelled it with the company fuel card and drove it!
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At least 2 reasons to keep quiet!
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Much as the idea of a trade-up appeals, I don't fancy a trade-up in tax; it's not hard to find a car which would double it.
I'll chase them up today for more info on the current situation.
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>> Much as the idea of a trade-up appeals, I don't fancy a trade-up in tax;
>> it's not hard to find a car which would double it.
>>
We had a 330i BMW and an S Type Jag at work for ages that no-one would take due to the tax - fuel was included (no option to refuse) and the actual tax payable (not the BIK value) was in the £500/mth region!
>> I'll chase them up today for more info on the current situation.
>>
Have they hired you cars in the interim or are you just in limbo? It's a bit odd to do nothing.
When my last big corporate employer messed around with the car scheme that was my cue to opt out sharpish.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Tue 18 Mar 14 at 12:39
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>> Have they hired you cars in the interim or are you just in limbo? It's
>> a bit odd to do nothing.
New starters have to choose the car or the cash. I think if you choose the cash you can back-date it up to a few months, and if you choose the car you get a hire/pool while waiting for your own to be delivered.
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>> and everything's a bit up in the air because our
>> company is going through the process of choosing their leasing company for the next 5
>> years.
Yep, just got the (all staff) email - Arval are being replaced by Alphabet and Athlon(!). No new orders until April 1st. Argh!
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they will have a new list for you to peruse with lease charges in as well.
Jeez - 200 odd posts for nothing
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Well I got to drive the Fiesta. Might get another 2 drives now, perhaps even in an A3...
Waiting to hear details of selection process - can't even start looking yet.
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>> Take the money!
If you could do that for a couple of months then switch to a car, I probably would. But you've got to carry on taking it for at least a year, and while I'm in a 'take the car' state of mind, that seems like too long.
Might change my mind, and I need to check whether that rule has changed - the policy has been updated, haven't re-read it yet.
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>> Yep, just got the (all staff) email - Arval are being replaced by Alphabet and
>> Athlon(!).
Alphabet are part of BMW, prices on BMW should be keen
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>> Alphabet are part of BMW, prices on BMW should be keen
Same problem though. It might mean it brings more BMs into my list of options, but I just pay the tax, and last time I looked there weren't any obvious competitors to the A3 on that basis*. Will check again though when I can.
* apart from the i3 which has yearly tax of exactly £0
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 18 Mar 14 at 14:51
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>> here weren't any obvious competitors to the A3 on that basis
Min's an option for you? Or what about the new 2 series based on the same platform as the Mini - the 2 Series Active Tourer.
www.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/new-vehicles/2/activetourer/2014/startpage.html
Not a 'real' BMW because it's front wheel drive.
P.S. I see Athlon leasing does not operate in the UK.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 18 Mar 14 at 15:56
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>> Min's an option for you?
New one supposed to be very good, and cheap tax. But policy doesn't (or didn't) allow 3 doors, so would have to wait at least until the 5 door. And check it's big enough (the A1 wasn't).
>> Or what about the new 2 series based on the
>> same platform as the Mini - the 2 Series Active Tourer.
It says the 2 series coupe starts at £24k+, and the cheapest yearly tax on one of those is £1700+ compared to the ~£1200 of the A3. Perhaps the Active Tourer will be cheaper or have lower CO2 figures?
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I suppose, I might be in one of three camps. Take the money, take the cheapest bik car going or take the best car they'll give me and hang the cost.
A compromise, as in most aspects of life, doesn't appeal as much somehow.
Then again, that's probably why I always seem to get a lot of things either very right or preposterously wrong.
Never bored though ! ;-)
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>>Yep, just got the (all staff) email - Arval are being replaced by Alphabet and Athlon(!). No new orders until April 1st. Argh!
Your fleet buyer isn't very patient with the Yellow Pages is he???
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Ok - I know you've all been missing this exciting discussion, so assuming the work company car system does get up and running again, and that I'll have the same pretty wide choice as before, how about... a Polo?
It comes with my favourite VAG 1.4 140ps engine in BlueGT trim, doing 0-62 in 7.9, 61.4mpg, and with a CO2 of 107 giving a yearly tax of £1019. And that's with the DSG box; a bit cheaper without. (A3 is ~£1200.)
It does look nice on the VW configurator website with the standard alloys and met blue paint. What Car are a bit lukewarm:
www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/polo-hatchback/summary/25891-5
HJ likes it apart from the lack of 'sparkle', but that's a criticism leveled at the A3 too:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/polo-v-2009/
Might give it a test drive should I get the opportunity; stands more chance of getting the thumbs up from Mrs F than the Fiesta I think.
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So are you saying a Polo is £100/yr cheaper than the A3 or is there more saving elsewhere?
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>> So are you saying a Polo is £100/yr cheaper than the A3 or is there
>> more saving elsewhere?
It's got a slightly better mpg, but yes, basically the tax would be the only significant difference.
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I'd be staggered at anyone taking the Polo for just a £100/yr saving over the A3.
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Is there that much of a gap do you think? I didn't think there was these days, but I haven't even looked inside a Polo.
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>> So are you saying a Polo is £100/yr cheaper than the A3 or is there
>> more saving elsewhere?
>>
Eh? The Polo is £1019, the A3 £1200. That's more than £100 difference. Then you can knock off a bit from the Polo if Focusless goes for a manual. So £200 difference t seems.
I suppose a line has to be drawn somewhere. I mean, if you're prepared to pay £1200 for the A3, why not pay £1400 for a, I dunno, Passat? That's only a £200 difference as well, but if you carried on you'd end up with a Bentley using that logic.
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>> I mean, if you're prepared to
>> pay £1200 for the A3, why not pay £1400 for a, I dunno, Passat?
Yeah, it's a tricky one. The 125ps Titanium X Fiesta makes the most sense really at £800 (pre-budget); justifying the £1200 for the A3 after that is hard enough.
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>> why not pay £1400 for a, I dunno, Passat?
Because that only gets you the 1.6 TDI Bluemotion 105ps, and I'm not prepared to wait 12.2s for it to do 0-62 :)
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 20 Mar 14 at 15:07
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>> I'm not prepared to
>> wait 12.2s for it to do 0-62 :)
>>
Oof, that's a pretty fast car in my book.
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>> hen you can knock off a bit from the Polo if Focusless goes for a manual. So £200 difference t seems.
It's only available as a DSG.
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>> >> hen you can knock off a bit from the Polo if Focusless goes for
>> a manual. So £200 difference t seems.
>>
>> It's only available as a DSG.
VW website says both.
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Scrub that. I was thinking of the GT not the BlueGT :-) I did a quote on a GT out of interest for me. But DSG only.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 20 Mar 14 at 16:36
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BlueGT-specific review:
www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/volkswagen/polo-bluegt
Verdict: "The Polo BlueGT is quick, economical and competent but it lacks engagement"
Still, worth a drive.
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Fourteen and a half grand to RENT a polo!
Just out of interest, If no car option was available and just a straight pay rise, would you consider a new car?
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Don't knock the Polo. I had a Mk ii Polo that I paid £200 for. Never had a car that was more fun - or a car that encouraged other users to get out of the way, lest I scratch their beautiful motors...
Don't forget that Company Car tax was put up in the budget. It'll cost you more than you expected.
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>> Don't forget that Company Car tax was put up in the budget. It'll cost you
>> more than you expected.
Thanks - I'll be going through the figures again before I place an order.
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>> Fourteen and a half grand to RENT a polo!
Sorry - can you explain?
>> Just out of interest, If no car option was available and just a straight pay
>> rise, would you consider a new car?
That is an option (works out at about £230 extra a month), so I have been considering new and used car alternatives. New would effectively mean a PCP, and I rang the local Audi dealer to enquire about that, but the PCP guy advised taking the company car. Used would certainly be possible, but then I've got to cover insurance, servicing etc. plus the uncertainty that comes with buying 2nd hand.
You pays your money... :)
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>> New would effectively mean a PCP, and I
>> rang the local Audi dealer to enquire about that
Didn't mean to imply I'd only consider Audis - I'd widen the net if I was paying for it myself eg. a Focus through Drivethedeal. In fact that reminds me, I've been meaning to get a quote off them...
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I'd just take the money, if your happy with your car paid for it before you had the extra cash and don't do any business miles. Spend it on a holiday or something.
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>> if your happy with your car
Not particularly! I mean it was ok as a 2nd car when we had the Focus, but it's not great as a main car. (It's an 07 reg 1.3 Colt.)
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>>> I mean, if you're prepared to pay £1200 for the A3, why not pay £1400 for a, I dunno, Passat? That's only a £200 difference as well, but if you carried on you'd end up with a Bentley using that logic.
Not really. It seems the A3 is affordable from what Focusless has said and they, like the Golf, are a very good mid range car. In many respects they already have 95% of the attributes of a larger car like the Passat without the excess size. £100 or £200 a year... it's nothing in the scheme of life to get a totally satisfying car.
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Sent the Autocar Polo link to Mrs F to test the water. Her considered response was "nah", so maybe not...
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You've dangled the bling mate, there's no going back to inferior branding now. She will be seen in an Audi. Oh yes, she will.
;-)
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>> You've dangled the bling mate, there's no going back to inferior branding now
Doesn't help that after all these years lusting after an Alfa, stepson, who still lives at home with us and doesn't have what you might call a 'proper' job, has gone and got himself one. It might only be a 147, and a diesel, but even so, it's hit her pretty hard.
So yes, I think you're right - if it's not going to be an Alfa, it's going to be something posh(er).
:)
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I see the Alfa obsession
I'm sure your stepson is aware of evil cambeltses though. Alfas. Cambeltses. Shudder. The memories.
I'd be changing it weekly.
Still, I'd love a 159 wagon mind you...................are there any with chaincams/camchains (which is correct?) I wonder....
Hope you enjoy your Audi when you get it.
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>> I'm sure your stepson is aware of evil cambeltses though. Alfas. Cambeltses. Shudder. The memories.
>>
>> I'd be changing it weekly.
He seems to be pretty switched on - yes, he was aware of it, and I believe got the dealer to do it before purchase (or it might have been done recently, not sure).
>> Still, I'd love a 159 wagon mind you...
Yeah, I was looking at those regards taking the money option and buying one privately. Just felt like too big a risk. They do look nice though...
>> Hope you enjoy your Audi when you get it.
Cheers!
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 20 Mar 14 at 15:57
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>> Still, I'd love a 159 wagon mind you...
>>>Yeah, I was looking at those regards taking the money option and buying one privately. Just felt like too big a risk. They do look nice though...
You never mentioned that... put the A3 on hold and let me talk you into it! I'm just looking for one at the moment to replace my saloon.
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>> >> Still, I'd love a 159 wagon mind you...
>>
>> >>>Yeah, I was looking at those regards taking the money option and buying one privately.
>>
>> You never mentioned that... put the A3 on hold and let me talk you into
>> it! I'm just looking for one at the moment to replace my saloon.
Just been looking at it again. Autotrader suggests I'd need £7k for a nice sub-50k miler, which is £160pm over 4 years (lease period) according to a loan comparison site.
I'd have to add servicing, insurance and anything else onto that, but presumably it would still work out cheaper than the £240 (missing cash option) + £110 (tax) pm of the company car. And you'd have a car at the end of it.
Mmm...
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Its not just that you'd have a car at the end of the term, its the fact that you could sell it and buy another at any point during that term should circumstances and/or desires change.
As well as significantly more flexibility as to how to spend the [cash alternative + tax not paid] rather than deciding now to spend on a car for the next 4 years (or whatever the period was).
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Yeah, I know, I know... I thought I'd made my mind up!
:)
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Alfa 159 2.2 petrol is a chain cam.
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Which sadly stretch and need replacing if the modern long service intervals are followed. Throws up error codes on the car as the timing goes out. About £200 more than swapping a timing belt on a diesel.
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>> You've dangled the bling mate, there's no going back to inferior branding now. She will
>> be seen in an Audi. Oh yes, she will.
And that's a lifelong sentence to drive new Audis. That'll cost you.
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If I compare the difference to take home pay between the Polo BlueGT and the A3 140PS SE then the saving between the two is certainly more than £100pa. Assuming you'd want both with metallic, then taking account difference in monthly rentals, the Polo BlueGT is £383pa cheaper. Not a huge amount granted but for a car that is to replace the Colt... Maybe worth considering.
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Not sure what you're getting at rtj - you mean if I bought one privately?
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No I was simply comparing monthly cost to me for those two models. Taking account of tax on the BIK and the monthly rental differences. The Polo 5DR BlueGT is nearly £400pa cheaper than the Audi A3 Sportback 1.4T 140PS SE. Must be similar for you I would think. Biggest difference is the BIK:
- A3 = £21561 P11D, emissions 112gm/km, monthly rental is £298 (15% BIK rate)
- Polo = £18835 P11D, emissions 107gm/km, monthly rental £286 (14% BIK rate)
So on tax alone for 2014/2015:
- A3 = 21561 x 15% x 40% = £1293
- Polo = 18835 x 14% x 40% = £1055
Difference is £238. Monthly rental difference is £12. So £144 for the year. So there's one mistake in my comparison (tax/NI on that payment).... Not £144 more like £72. Difference is still about £300 for a 40% tax payer per annum.
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>> No I was simply comparing monthly cost to me for those two models.
Ok - I thought you were looking at my costs (as Alanovic was doing), which just depend on the BIK tax (apart from fuel costs, which aren't that significant as my mileage isn't high). Monthly rental doesn't come into it.
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A friend has a Citroen DS3 diesel ( airdream or something ) as his company car. Nice thing anyway and he says it's buttons in tax.
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>> A friend has a Citroen DS3 diesel ( airdream or something ) as his company
>> car. Nice thing anyway and he says it's buttons in tax.
Well the DS3 1.6 E-HDI 16v Dsport Airdream 115hp is quite cheap at £991pa, and not too much slower than the A3 (9.7 0-62). But it's only a 3 door, so along with those naughty 4x4s not allowed in my company's scheme.
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>> not allowed in my company's scheme.
You don't know what is or isn't allowed. They are changing supplier. We couldn't get soft tops/convertibles at one time but can now.
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>> >> not allowed in my company's scheme.
>>
>> You don't know what is or isn't allowed. They are changing supplier
No - it's the company policy, not the supplier's.
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 20 Mar 14 at 20:32
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Was the same for us - and it changed one time when supplier changed. 3 door cars were always allowed.
Another example, we could only have Ford, GM or Toyota group cars at one point. Lease company used supplied those to others. And today we have a much better choice again - but again not all marques the lease company deals with (e.g. e.g Alfa, Citroen, FIAT, Honda, Jaguar, Land Rover, Peugeot, Mini (but we have BMWs), Porsche)
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>> Was the same for us - and it changed one time when supplier changed. 3
>> door cars were always allowed.
Old supplier Arval according to their website can supply you with 4x4s, 3drs, convertibles, and vehicles with CO2 > 145, all of which were not allowed under the company policy. So I don't think that's going to get less restrictive with the new supplier, although it might go the other way if like in your example the supplier has their own restrictions.
There are some policy changes - CO2 limit is being reduced to 138 (95 by 2020!), and there's mention of a choice of lease periods, although we don't know what that choice will be yet (was just 4 years).
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>> There are some policy changes - CO2 limit is being reduced to 138 (95 by
>> 2020!), and there's mention of a choice of lease periods, although we don't know what
>> that choice will be yet (was just 4 years).
Lower lease periods usually means higher lease cost,
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>> There are some policy changes - CO2 limit is being reduced to 138
There are cost benefits to the company if CO2 emissions are lower. The incentive for us to do this is a boost to car grade - one band for less than 160g/km and two for 120g/km.
I am surprised if they let you pay up that they don't give you back the difference if you trade down.
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BMW 'Active Tourer'!
In the hall of car names that must be the second worst to Toyota's 'Urban Cruiser'!
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But looks like a decent car in BMWs defence.
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And for the Polo... I think the facelift is imminent so you might not get the old/current BlueGT anyway. Prices may be similar but specs might change.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 20 Mar 14 at 22:18
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A guy I knew managed to get a Morgan as his company car back around 1990. He'd had it on order as a personal purchase anyway for a good while and would have bought it himself but the thing became available just as his co car was due for changing. He asked the question and much to his delight his ( our ) then employers agreed. They paid him back the deposit he'd put down, bought the car on his behalf and issued it to him insured etc.
About three years later, he opted out of the car scheme, bought the Morgan from the company for a good bit less than it would have otherwise cost him and carried on with it but now taking a cash car allowance instead !
Nice one really !
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Just noticed your current offer is a 4yr lease. I've only ever had 3yr company cars or leases... and for me the last 6mths of those did drag a bit. If it stays at 4yrs with the new arrangement even more reason to think about this with care. You could probably buy a decent used car with loan if needed and pay it off in 2yrs with the saving... and as NoFM said earlier it does leave options open if anything in your life changes car needs.
If you do go with the lease though, and I probably would assuming your life is anything like ours when I had cars supplied, it's even more crucial to get a satisfying car that will take you past the 2.5yr itch to full term.
A3!!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 21 Mar 14 at 09:49
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>> If you do go with the lease though, and I probably would assuming your life
>> is anything like ours when I had cars supplied, it's even more crucial to get
>> a satisfying car that will take you past the 2.5yr itch to full term.
>>
>> A3!!
I think you meant, even more crucial to test drive your purchase first........
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>> Just noticed your current offer is a 4yr lease.
As mentioned earlier, we've now been promised a choice of lease periods, although we don't know what they are yet.
Although this will probably increase the lease cost, as we don't pay that I guess it just means it will lower the choice of cars available under my limit. So it might mean I can't go for the A3 on the shorter lease, but it'll be nice if I still can (with no increase in cost to me).
Last edited by: Focusless on Fri 21 Mar 14 at 10:04
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>> >> Just noticed your current offer is a 4yr lease.
>>
>> As mentioned earlier, we've now been promised a choice of lease periods, although we don't
>> know what they are yet.
>>
>> Although this will probably increase the lease cost, as we don't pay that I guess
>> it just means it will lower the choice of cars available under my limit.
Is there no way of trading up with monthly cash contribution? That also reduces your tax liability.
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>> Is there no way of trading up with monthly cash contribution?
Yes, or at least there was in the old policy - up to 15% of the lease price.
>> That also reduces your tax liability.
On the old Arval system you chose your vehicle and it gave you a monthly cost to the employee (ie. tax not lease), taking into account any upgrade required. Hopefully the new supplier will have a similar system.
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Further up the thread I think you said the total monthly cost of taking this company car was around £340??
As a comparison have you looked at personal lease? I guess you would have to knock off around £40/mth to cover insurance & servicing but would the remaining £300 get you what you want on Lings site...
www.lingscars.com/Volkswagen/Polo-leasing/cheap-contract-hire.html#models
I've linked into the Polo page to smooth your experience by missing the home page which is extra trippy today. Just look at any other vehicles of choice on the left side menu.
I only thought of it seeing someone above total the cost to you of the company car over its 4yr term. Pro-rata our leased Citroen C5 Tourer from Ling was cheaper than that.
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>> As a comparison have you looked at personal lease?
Thanks - I'll have a look at that.
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>> Thanks - I'll have a look at that.
Mmm... despite the long list of Polos there's no BlueGT models, and over on the A3 list there's none with the same 1.4 140ps (138bhp) engine. I asked why via the live chat, but they just said ask for quote.
However I did look at the Fiestas, and they do a 125ps in Titanium trim with metallic paint over 4 years for £186pm, which doesn't seem bad. Definitely worth thinking about.
But must have a lie down first - that website has given me a headache!
Last edited by: Focusless on Fri 21 Mar 14 at 12:08
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>> Mmm... despite the long list of Polos there's no BlueGT models, and over on the
>> A3 list there's none with the same 1.4 140ps (138bhp) engine.
FWIW the cheapest Golf (1.6 TDI Bluemotion Tech) is £263pm, so I doubt the A3 I fancied would work out cheaper than taking the company car option. Although just noticed that's a 3 year lease; I guess it would be cheaper over 4 years if they do it.
Strange pricing - the £263pm one is a 5dr in SE spec, whereas the 3dr in more basic S spec is listed at £270pm.
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>> Strange pricing - the £263pm one is a 5dr in SE spec, whereas the 3dr
>> in more basic S spec is listed at £270pm.
>>
I guess they forecast the 5dr SE will retain more value
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>> I guess they forecast the 5dr SE will retain more value
Thanks, makes sense.
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Lease costs will all be down to residuals. Which is why for example a BMW 520d SE will be cheaper than quite a few cars that are considerably cheaper to buy. And why BMW and Audis might be very competitive with Fords and Vauxhalls for monthly rental prices.
Our leases used to be 4 years with the last lease company that ran our scheme for us. The current company have 3 years - and I can see why. Both of the cars I had for four years started to need work doing on them before the lease was up. Interestingly the default annual mileage for our lease cars has dropped from 17,000 to 13,000 - presumably because residuals are higher on lower mileage cars.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 21 Mar 14 at 12:55
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>> Lease costs will all be down to residuals. Which is why for example a BMW 520d SE
I was going to look at one of those (I can dream!), but for some reason they don't have any 5 series.
Last edited by: Focusless on Fri 21 Mar 14 at 13:07
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On our list they are quite competitive. Three years ago they could be described as cheap. Some sort of deal between BMW and the lease company. A 520d SE is about £390pm. The equivalent A6 2.0d Ultra SE (but no Xenons) is £420 and the higher spec S-Line is £441.
The 320d SE Business Media is about the same monthly rental as the 520d SE. List price is a little lower but emissions are higher. So the 320d SE would cost more each month. About £1 more. Which would you prefer :-)
Which would I have though... I'd pay the extra and have an Audi I think. And S-Line better spec/price than an SE with added options like xenons. But how's the sport suspension....
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>> >> Fourteen and a half grand to RENT a polo!
>>
>> Sorry - can you explain?
>>
I just meant it sounds like a lot of money to drive a Polo for 4 years and have nothing at the end of it. If my calculations are correct, it's actually costs you £15116 to rent a Polo for 4 years. £11040 for loss of Cash alternative and another £4076 in BIK.
I can almost see a case for something like a new A3 which otherwise might be unobtainable.
Just wouldn't be for me but like you say, you pays your money.
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>> If my calculations are correct,
>> it's actually costs you £15116 to rent a Polo for 4 years.
Right, thanks - gotcha. No, it doesn't sound great put like that, but I guess if you were buying a new Polo, the cost would be:
Car: £19k (not including any loan interest)
Insurance: £1k?
Servicing: £1k?
Others: ?
Of course offset against that is the value of the 4 year old car, which would bring the total cost to under the £15k, but by how much?
>> I can almost see a case for something like a new A3 which otherwise might
>> be unobtainable.
The PCP guy at Reading Audi couldn't :)
>> Just wouldn't be for me but like you say, you pays your money.
Appreciate the input.
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Ah, Ling. Such joy. I love the last line of the wacky terms and conditions too:
You are damn lucky that the laws of England and Wales (and not of the People's Republic of China) govern these conditions of use and you agree that the English courts shall have exclusive jurisdiction in any dispute.
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If Rattle ever gets an option for a company car....... :)
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>> If Rattle ever gets an option for a company car....... :)
>>
The thread will need it's own forum?
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I'm going to take the money :(
The initial excitement at the prospect of a new car has worn off somewhat, and looking at the figures again (and again ...) we just can't risk taking the financial hit that goes with the car.
Including the proceeds from selling the Colt, say £2k, we'd still be approximately £1.5k down on the first year*, never mind the next 3. And son is (hopefully) off to uni next year - even allowing for the considerable savings on the leccy bill with him not spending ages in the shower every day, there's going to be additional costs there.
So thanks again for all the input. Who knows - I'm allowed to change my decision in a year's time, so we can do it all again :)
* albeit better off than we would have been without the (no-)car allowance
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>> Including the proceeds from selling the Colt, say £2k, we'd still be approximately £1.5k down
Correction - £1.2k
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Still at least you can buy a nice used A3 with the allowance!
>>> son is (hopefully) off to uni next year - even allowing for the considerable savings on the leccy bill with him not spending ages in the shower every day, there's going to be additional costs there.
We are 7mths into first daughter away at Uni. I know folks will all have different experiences with Uni kids but we found the initial visits etc cost around £300 in travelling, costs for her going away kit were around £1000 and we are currently sending £50/wk to top up her living expenses above the Gov loan... and in just over a year we will have two away at once.
This expenditure period is one reason we decided not to get another new car but go for good value used.
I guess it will be help with housing after that so may take 5yrs+ before self and Mrs F can re-group financially... be time for proper retirement by then!
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>> We are 7mths into first daughter away at Uni...
Thanks for that Fen, useful info.
Still trying to come to terms with my decision, gazing wistfully at every passing A3 ... :)
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Yeah, understandable of course but at least you'll save a fortune on hair gel and you won't have to start doing dinner parties.
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>> I'm going to take the money :(
OFFS! A 325 post, and you take the money!
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>> I'm going to take the money :(
A wise decision, I think.
If you were already buying a NEW car every 3 or 4 years it would have made a lot of sense.
Like you say, can always re-visit in a year & have the benefit of seeing how colleagues get on with service/costs.
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Holy thread revival batman!
Are you still around Focusless?
Just this week I've been looking at Leasing an A3 as the family duty car - I seem to remember you leased one in the end?
Anyway, does anyone have any links to a decent car/cash calculator?
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This is a pretty useful website, with some handy tools and calculators:-
comcar.co.uk/cashorcar/
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Thanks. I'll have a play about with that later.
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>> This is a pretty useful website, with some handy tools and calculators:-
>>
>> comcar.co.uk/cashorcar/
I'm confusing myself now. I'll start a new thread and hopefully get some help.
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Company car - Boxsterboy
