www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-26025613
I kinda wish the copper had messily smeared him down the side of his car rather than just give him a slight knock in the chest
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The first shunt could easily have been curtains - for the oncoming jamajar.
Best to take the clown down a dark alley somewhere, and shuffle him orf, a bit lively, like.
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I quite often see people driving like that. Most don't get chased by police, so probably get away with it. But for a small proportion the chase seems to send them completely over the top - I suppose it's the red mist that lets a fighter pilot press home his attack in suicidal circumstances.
It's probably nearly impossible to wind down out of it in mid-chase.
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Now this may be dangerous, but certainly impressive parking skills!
www.thepoke.co.uk/2014/02/04/how-to-park-in-moscow-city-center-2/
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I'm delighted when these guys kill themselves - preferably not taking anyone else with them.
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The problem is, they usually walk away from the most catastrophic crashes uninjured. I remember a local pub being demolished by joyriders a few years ago which seriously injured a number of people in the pub, but the scrotes were cut out of the mangled car with cuts and bruises only.
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A friend who was the county road rescue doctor told me that a significant proportion of bodies he pulled from crashes were those of scrotes. I remember him saying after one death, "oh, yes, they'll be celebrating in that village tonight!".
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I imagine that was a calculated attempt to get the police to abandon the pursuit.
It could well have worked had the rozzer not elected to sacrifice a bit of paint. Good for him, I hope he didn't get too much ear ache for the damage to the police car.
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And banned for just four years. Extraordinary.
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Interesting how well the the skid marks show up in the helicopter (infra-red ) shots. Just shows the heat generated.
Much as I like to see scroats nailed, I sometimes wonder, given the 'red mist' problem, how wise it is to give chase? The stinger is clearly a good solution, but chasing people who have no intention of stopping through traffic and past pedestrians just exacerbates the problem.
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Unfortunately, when they know that the police will abandon a dangerous pursuit they are more likely to do it.
I'm surprised that a method hasn't been devised of stopping cars by blasting them with high power EMR.
EDIT - it has.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25197786
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"if you took a 1960s Land Rover, there's a good chance you're not going to stop it"
(from the BBC piece about remote stopping)
From what I can remember, early Landies were quite hard to stop even if you were the driver (although the hand/transmission brake usually worked).
I thought that EM disruptors had been tried and abandoned by the Yanks, in case it affected the transmitting vehicle? And of course, once the scroats have them...
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"Interesting how well the the skid marks show up in the helicopter (infra-red ) shots."
Hope the helicopter doesn't pass over Zero's washing line.
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>> but chasing people who have no intention of stopping through traffic and past pedestrians just
>> exacerbates the problem.
>>
...how else would you propose to deal with it?
Can I presume you'd not allow anyone to ignore a request from a police officer (in or out of a car) to stop?...So they refuse to obey the order, what next?
Personally I'd sanction PIT manoeuvre and similar as the Yanks do..and force them off the road...and if they're injured or die..so what, their choice.
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>> >> but chasing people who have no intention of stopping through traffic and past pedestrians
>> just
>> >> exacerbates the problem.
>> >>
>>
>> ...how else would you propose to deal with it?
There's no easy answer to that. Neither letting them go nor chasing are the right thing in every event. Best you can do is have well trained pursuit drivers with clear boundaries about where chases can and cannot be started and where they might need to be abandoned.
Air support and multiple vehicles co-ordinated are another perhaps leading to a cat's claw or stinger being deployed.
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>> Personally I'd sanction PIT manoeuvre and similar as the Yanks do..and force them off the
>> road...and if they're injured or die..so what, their choice.
Yes that crossed my mind. The police are rightly concerned about public safety, but perhaps they could balance a bit more risk to the safety of the occupants of fleeing cars with the greater good.
I can tell you that PIT works - I was hit behind the offside rear wheel arch by a lorry changing lanes about 30 years ago, and I think the car managed one and a half rotations. Absolutely no chance of straightening up.
Some concern I think that PIT might need revisiting now cars have ESP etc, but I don't think it would have made much difference when it happened to me.
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The ideal surely would be a way of "marking" the car so that it could be tracked without the occupants being aware, and then intercepted by some sort of fast response possibly including helicopter. It will stop somewhere.
Some kind of modern gadetry analogous to Sherlock Holmes marking a cab's wheel with aniseed. Can't radar lock on to a particular object - ship, plane, missile, and then track it wherever it goes?
The difficulties seem to arise from the driver knowing he is being chased, and thinking there is a chance he can throw it off.
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The problem with tracking rather than being behind it it that they mostly just want to bail out and run away.
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Yes, I see that. It would all depend on how quickly the police could get there. But people too can be tracked, can't they? Or perhaps that ability hasn't quite been invented yet.
I'm just struck by the apparent contrast in police techniques between dealing with unstable people brandishing some kinds of lethal weapons (guns) and others (cars at high speed).
With one, the aim is to calm them down and play for time, whereas the other seems designed to wind them up to the thrill of the chase.
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>> Yes, I see that. It would all depend on how quickly the police could get
>> there. But people too can be tracked, can't they? Or perhaps that ability hasn't quite
>> been invented yet.
Like firing a shell of radioactive orange dyed smart water into the car with a bazooka? I like it.
>> I'm just struck by the apparent contrast in police techniques between dealing with unstable people
>> brandishing some kinds of lethal weapons (guns) and others (cars at high speed).
>> With one, the aim is to calm them down and play for time, whereas the
>> other seems designed to wind them up to the thrill of the chase.
I thought you were going suggest that they should open fire when life is at risk in both cases!
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"thrill of the chase"
I can well imagine that the pursuit driver gets just as determined to do the catching as the catchee is to avoid it. I know I would.
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>> "thrill of the chase"
>> I can well imagine that the pursuit driver gets just as determined
But joyriders/getaway drivers can be assumed not to care about damage and to take risks to escape, while pursuit drivers are trained not to crash (except when running a toerag off the road, which is obviously sometimes the right thing to do) or risk other road users' lives or limbs.
Actually, although some of the pursued vehicles I have seen in TV clips have been very well driven, a trained driver should be as fast or faster than e.g. a joyrider because they won't need to recover or compensate as often having more evolved and reliable anticipatory skills. As always, nothing is 100% and accidents or disasters will happen sometimes.
Generally of course the police have huge advantages having marked and unmarked cars and helicopters too. They can observe and play a waiting game to keep things a bit safer. In real life Chief Whassername soon catches the Dukes of Hazzard and confiscates their motor.
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You're right, WP, I don't really know, but I thought it might provoke some discussion.
I'm sure from the police's POV, catching them red-handed makes prosecution a lot simpler than locating them later and then having to prove they were the driver/perpetrator.
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>> Personally I'd sanction PIT manoeuvre and similar as the Yanks do..and force them off the
>> road...and if they're injured or die..so what, their choice.
Having seen the way yank coppers PIT the scroat into innocent bystanders and cause carnage, I'd rather we kept things here the way they are.
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>> I'd rather we kept things here the way they are.
Well of course. It's another place though, with different sorts of car. No doubt even our own trusty rozzers don't always get it spot on. And no doubt Americans, whose traditional large jalopies are very well suited to that sort of thing being able to do it and still run afterwards, often do it right.
Of course we all deplore anything along those lines and what we really want is peaceful, uneventful towns except when the boredom becomes unbearable...
:o}
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>> Having seen the way yank coppers PIT the scroat into innocent bystanders and cause carnage,
>> I'd rather we kept things here the way they are.
>>
I wouldn't.
A PIT can go wrong of course..but the idea is you choose your moment and execute it when it's safest.
Contrast that with allowing some toerag to drive absolutely flat out through built up areas. You've all seen the police t.v. programmes, some of the driving is totally unbelievable and just waiting for some innocent person to get wiped out.
100mph plus through a 30mph limit whilst the kids are going to school?
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>> I wouldn't.
>>
>> A PIT can go wrong of course..but the idea is you choose your moment and
>> execute it when it's safest.
>>
>> Contrast that with allowing some toerag to drive absolutely flat out through built up areas.
>> You've all seen the police t.v. programmes, some of the driving is totally unbelievable and
>> just waiting for some innocent person to get wiped out.
>>
>> 100mph plus through a 30mph limit whilst the kids are going to school?
As ST said, they tried it in this clip and nearly wiped out some innocent.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 5 Feb 14 at 21:01
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>> As ST said, they tried it in this clip and nearly wiped out some innocent.
>>
Yes...a dreadful PIT...probably because it's not taught here, so he/she improvised..and got it wrong.
Still safer than letting the bandit thrap right through a built up area at 100mph though.
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>> >> As ST said, they tried it in this clip and nearly wiped out some
>> innocent.
>> >>
>> Yes...a dreadful PIT...probably because it's not taught here, so he/she improvised..and got it wrong.
>>
>> Still safer than letting the bandit thrap right through a built up area at 100mph
>> though.
The fact we rarely have pedestrians mown down at 100MPH plus, indicates to me we have it spot on.
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>> The fact we rarely have pedestrians mown down at 100MPH plus, indicates to me we
>> have it spot on.
>>
What a strange way of thinking.
Because YOU don't hear of many accidents you find it acceptable to continue...
..and you're happy for the oik driving the stolen car or whatever to drive dangerously through built up areas..but you're not happy for someone highly trained to deploy a technique designed to stop that?
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>> >> The fact we rarely have pedestrians mown down at 100MPH plus, indicates to me
>> we
>> >> have it spot on.
>> >>
>>
>> What a strange way of thinking
>> Because YOU don't hear of many accidents you find it acceptable to continue...
What the hell are smoking? Are seriously trying to suggest a one dead pedestrian killed by a 100mph scroat would not make the headlines?
>> ..and you're happy for the oik driving the stolen car or whatever to drive dangerously
>> through built up areas..but you're not happy for someone highly trained to deploy a technique
>> designed to stop that?
Ok to be blunt. The police drivers are not good enough to do a PIT I don't trust them.
And neither do their senior officers.
And the view of that one on the film backs it up
This is not the states, we have crowded narrow roads RARELY is a location safe enough to do a PIT, that is why TPAC was conceived.
The job of the police is to protect the innocent and causing carnage is not the way.
Maybe we should be saying, Is a TPAC authorised often enough.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 6 Feb 14 at 11:03
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>> Ok to be blunt. The police drivers are not good enough to do a PIT
>> I don't trust them.
>>
>> And neither do their senior officers.
>>
>> And the view of that one on the film backs it up
>>
>> This is not the states, we have crowded narrow roads RARELY is a location safe enough to do a PIT, that is why TPAC was conceived.
>>
>> The job of the police is to protect the innocent and causing carnage is not the way.
>>
>> Maybe we should be saying, Is a TPAC authorised often enough.
Oh no.
Now look at what's happened.
Zero and myself agreeing. Is hell cooling down?
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>> Ok to be blunt. The police drivers are not good enough to do a PIT
>> I don't trust them.
Bottom line is this...do you want scumbag driving too fast and erratically..or Old Bill?
>>
>> And neither do their senior officers.
They want the perfect world, good Press, no damaged vehicles, no public criticism, no expenditure on replacement/damaged vehicles, etc..it doesn't exist
>>
>> And the view of that one on the film backs it up
Yes..I agree. The UNTRAINED officer cocked it up.
>>
>> This is not the states, we have crowded narrow roads RARELY is a location safe
>> enough to do a PIT, that is why TPAC was conceived.
Rubbish. The average roundabout would do for starters. I've lost count of the times on a pursuit when I could easily have achieved it, but wasn't authorised and had to rein it in.
>>
>>
>> The job of the police is to protect the innocent and causing carnage is not
>> the way.
...and neither is sitting back, wringing your hands and letting some scrote tear through a built up area. We reduce speed limits from 30mph to 20mph for safety..yet don't seem to mind lunatics tearing through at whatever speed they like?
>>
>> Maybe we should be saying, Is a TPAC authorised often enough.
It isn't..it's not affordable within the present structure. I'd welcome more of that.
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Could somebody explain the acronyms PIT and TPAC?
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PIT
American - Stands for "precision immobilisation technique" Its nothing of the sort of course. Its merely "slap the big lardy arsed bad handling yank car on it rear wing with my front wing to send it spinning out of control"
TPAC
Tactical Pursuit and Containment. Basicaly box in the scroat with three cop cars and slow him down to a stop, with all the cars getting dented and banged along the way.
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>> Tactical Pursuit and Containment. Basicaly box in the scroat with three cop cars
Four
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three and a barrier. How many times could you rustle up 4 cars and 4 authorised drivers?
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 6 Feb 14 at 18:15
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Exactly...it's not going to happen is it.
On some night duties in the Met, there'd be 5 traffic cars out for the whole of the London area ..and that included the supervisors.
Total joke.
One car dealing with a serious/fatal somewhere and another in a nick with a drink/drive for 4 hours .. and there isn't enough left for a TPAC
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And if TPAC was tried, that takes out a few cars that then need repairs. Not going to happen often then is it. Shoot the tyres :-)
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>> And if TPAC was tried, that takes out a few cars that then need repairs.
>> Not going to happen often then is it. Shoot the tyres :-)
>>
That's dangerous Timothy
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>
>> Rubbish. The average roundabout would do for starters. I've lost count of the times on
>> a pursuit when I could easily have achieved it, but wasn't authorised and had to
>> rein it in.
And I'd be off round the roundabout int he opposite direction to the traffic while you were still facing the other way.
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>> And I'd be off round the roundabout int he opposite direction to the traffic while
>> you were still facing the other way.
>>
Do you know anyone rich who could arrange this?
Zero versus Westpig..on a circuit somewhere...loser buys the beers and meal in the evening..bring your wallet.
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Cobblers, you are only after a constructive dismissal payout....
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>> Cobblers, you are only after a constructive dismissal payout....
Can you send me something suitable for my locker?
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Yes loads, how big is your locker?
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>>Zero versus Westpig..on a circuit somewhere...loser buys the beers and meal in the evening..bring your wallet.
www.mildenhallstadium.mfbiz.com/
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>> And I'd be off round the roundabout int he opposite direction to the traffic while
>> you were still facing the other way.
>>
Aye right, and you can outdrive the police helicopter and outrun a police dog.
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>> >> And I'd be off round the roundabout int he opposite direction to the traffic
>> while
>> >> you were still facing the other way.
>> >>
>>
>> Aye right, and you can outdrive the police helicopter and outrun a police dog.
And what skills do you have?
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>> >> And I'd be off round the roundabout int he opposite direction to the traffic
>> while
>> >> you were still facing the other way.
>> >>
>>
>> Aye right, and you can outdrive the police helicopter and outrun a police dog.
He could probably outbark the police dog ;-P
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I could certainly persuade the dog not to bite me
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>> I could certainly persuade the dog not to bite me
>>
>>
My knowledge of dogs does not extend beyond them having teeth at one end, a crap dispenser at the other, and a leg at each corner. However I seriously doubt your claim.
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>> I seriously doubt your claim.
I don't ON. He's a pooch whisperer who speaks fluent fuzzdog...
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>> >> I could certainly persuade the dog not to bite me
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> My knowledge of dogs does not extend beyond them having teeth at one end, a
>> crap dispenser at the other, and a leg at each corner. However I seriously doubt
>> your claim.
well as you said, you are eminently qualified.
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>> He could probably outbark the police dog ;-P
>>
No chance, he has a crap dispenser at both ends. :-)
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I'd stick to things you know about. When we have a question about loads of blokes living in a tube who don't wash we'll ask you
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Nuclear submarines make so much fresh water they dump the stuff when all the FW tanks are full. Feed water for the boilers does take priority over domestic use though. I have never known a shortage of fresh water even when 50% of the production equipment is down for maintenance. The real world is surprisingly smelly after a long period submerged.
Last edited by: Uncle Albert on Thu 6 Feb 14 at 18:31
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Nearly posted this couple of weeks ago when it appeared in BBC News; interesting article about USS Nautilus, first nuclear sub:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25817797
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I joined my first nuclear submarine 15 years after USS Nautilus was launched. Things had already moved on dramatically.
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>I joined my first nuclear submarine 15 years after USS Nautilus was launched.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus_(1800_submarine)
Respect, ON.
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:-)
That one is a bit too dangerous for me, I was more comfortable with a nuclear power plant, enough rocket motors to put a submarine into orbit, and dozens of nuclear weapons and torpedoes.
Last edited by: Uncle Albert on Thu 6 Feb 14 at 21:57
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>> >> Personally I'd sanction PIT manoeuvre and similar as the Yanks do..and force them off
>> the road...and if they're injured or die..so what, their choice.
>>
>> Having seen the way yank coppers PIT the scroat into innocent bystanders and cause carnage, I'd rather we kept things here the way they are.
+1
Did you see how close the perps car got to on-coming traffic (after attempted PIT) @ 30 seconds...
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When I was in USA in summer I was convinced that the first priority in the design of their freeways was to make them big enough, and with enough run off, to carry out PIT manoeuvres!!
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dangerous driving - Dog
