The ever popular pub chain Wetherspoons has opened the first pub in the UK to be situated on a motorway.
tinyurl.com/manm6l4
Our correspondent reported that the first customer through the doors when the pub opened this morning was a Mr Zero from Surrey.
Mr Zero told our man "I have been waiting for this moment so long, I just want Wetherspoons good value food and well kept beer". He went on to express a wish for more Wetherspoons pubs to open around the country. "I can die a happy man now" he said.
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Poor Zero was confused and thought it was a plumbers merchants. He was looking for a cheap boiler.
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He was looking for
>> a cheap boiler.
>>
Our local Weatherspoons seems to be well stocked with old boilers but apparently none of them are cheap.
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"Our local Weatherspoons"
Is that the Llanelli one ?
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>> Is that the Llanelli one ?
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Carmarthen. Llanelli's not posh enough to have a Weatherspoons.
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>>
>> >> Is that the Llanelli one ?
>> >>
>>
>> Carmarthen. Llanelli's not posh enough to have a Weatherspoons.
>>
Llanelli has a Terry Griffiths snooker hall - or it did at one time.
There's posh for you!
OT - I had a Welsh born & bred colleague who pronounce the town's name as " Lanethli"
Mind you he was Pembrokeshire - from Neyland, I believe!
Last edited by: Roger on Wed 22 Jan 14 at 08:51
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I went to the Llanelli one in my other life (around 2008) - three of us on a business. Sunday night. We walked into the 'spoons...it was busy, the whole place went quiet andI could have sworn that tumbleweed straight from centeral casting blew acorss the bar. One of the guys I was with was around 6'3" and carried scars from rugby.......we stayed there all evening and went to look for a curry....we were approached by a guy and advised to get a taxi to our hotel before it kicked off....strange place. Mind you it might have because the big bloke ordered a Daquiri
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>> Our correspondent reported that the first customer through the doors when the pub opened this
>> morning was a Mr Zero from Surrey.
>>
Mr Zero told our man "I wanted to be the first person in so I could sit on the seats before the regular clientele peed and vomited on them"
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From the Services site : "One of the biggest fears is that traffic exiting the services would need to cross the busy A355"
So not really on the motorway then. But that wouldn't make good story for the media though would it.
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It's signed from the motorway as a Motorway Service area, so to all intents and purposes it is one and is used as such.
A pub in the services is a utterly ridiculous notion. Yes, there are pubs by the sides of other types of roads, but other facilities are available and you need to make a conscious decision to go to a licensed establishment for refreshment. To be simply presented with alcohol as an option when making a break on a motorway journey, a break intended specifically to help the driver recover from tiredness and fatigue, seems perverse. Alcohol, a well known soporific and attention-destroyer, is the last thing which should be available in such places.
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>> A pub in the services is a utterly ridiculous notion.
The notion of MSAs as 'dry' was given up several years ago. Most now seem to have either Waitrose or M&S Food. Both sell a range of beers and wines. The signage says booze may not be consumed on site but I doubt that'll stop the determined. Neither did it stop me consuming an M&S beer in the Travelodge at Donington prior to recent trip to Majorca.
Called at one recently to find beer on sale in WH Smith. The covering licence sign stated that alcohol may not be consumed either on or off the premises!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 10:20
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>> >> A pub in the services is a utterly ridiculous notion.
>>
>> The notion of MSAs as 'dry' was given up several years ago.
I realise that. That's why I said "A pub in the services is a utterly ridiculous notion". Which is different from saying alcohol shouldn't be sold in service stations. It's (just about) fine for it to be sold across a shop counter in closed containers for consumption at home or in the travel lodge, but to serve it in open containers to drivers for immediate consumption before setting off on the road again is a step too far.
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>> but to serve it in open containers to drivers for immediate consumption before setting off on the road again is a step too far.
>>
Maybe it is just the passengers having a drink to dull the sight of miles of motorway? :-)
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>> >> >> A pub in the services is a utterly ridiculous notion.
>> >>
>> >> The notion of MSAs as 'dry' was given up several years ago.
>>
>> I realise that. That's why I said "A pub in the services is a utterly
>> ridiculous notion". Which is different from saying alcohol shouldn't be sold in service stations.
But the supermarkets were the thin end of a wedge. The notion of a pub on an MSA would probably not been accepted except for argument 'but Watrose/M&S already sell booze.
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>> But the supermarkets were the thin end of a wedge. The notion of a pub
>> on an MSA would probably not been accepted except for argument 'but Watrose/M&S already sell
>> booze.
>>
You're missing the vital detail again. It's the difference between open and closed containers. Buy in a pub and you HAVE to consume there and then. Buy in a supermarket and it's (intended) for consumption elsewhere.
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>> You're missing the vital detail again. It's the difference between open and closed containers. Buy
>> in a pub and you HAVE to consume there and then. Buy in a supermarket
>> and it's (intended) for consumption elsewhere.
Not missing a point, just seeing a different one. The sale of alcohol on MSAs, forbidden for forty plus years was ceded to the 'convenience' stores. Nobody in Wetherspoons is obliged to drink alcohol and, off sales rules notwithstanding, closed containers can be opened in cars.
Which is not to say I'm comfortable with the idea of pubs on MSA's I'm not, but I'd rather eat in Wetherspoons than the other facilities.
It also chips away at another principal of MSAs, that of their not being a destination in their own right.
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>> It also chips away at another principal of MSAs, that of their not being a
>> destination in their own right.
>>
That was never an underlying principle when they were first constructed; in fact they were seen as a kind of tourist attraction, and a visit to Watford Gap, for example, was positively encouraged. Likewise Forton on the M6 with its tower restaurant.
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>>
>> >> It also chips away at another principal of MSAs, that of their not being
>> a
>> >> destination in their own right.
Principal does not apply when access to the MSA is off an A road, as it in in this case. Makes it a destination in its own right. If it wasn't, the vendors wouldn't be there.
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2 points about the service area
"Crossing the A355"
it has a kind of unusual but not unique entry/exit system where the entry is off the roundabout at the Motorway junction, and the exit comes back on to the A355 about 50 yards from the roundabout, traffic light controlled pretty low risk.
The "Pub" is far from the only facility in the service area it has the usual huge range of fast foods etc, as well as a motel (can't remember the variety).
This is IMHO a lot of fuss over nothing.
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Should we perhaps shut down every pub and licensed restaurant on every "A" road in the country. Statistically much more dangerous than motorways.
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I've explained the main difference already, CGN. Also, there is only one way to get to a motorway service station. Driving. This is not the case for establishments in other locations. Establishments which are a destination in their own right. A motorway service station is not a destination in its own right, nobody goes there just for food and drink. They go there because they are driving, the driving is not an accidental or optional side effect. this is what makes it an unsuitable location for licensing.
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There are loads of pubs and licensed restaurants on busy roads that cater virtually 100% for the passing trade. They are not "destinations in their own right" although I am unclear what difference this makes anyway.
What exactly is the difference between being able to order a burger and chips with a glass of lager in Weatherspoons adjacent to a motorway and ordering exactly the same thing in a Little Chef adjacent to an A road?
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The difference is, you make a conscious decision to go to a normal pub or restaurant, and then decide how to get there and back. You can avoid driving, and should do so if intending to drink. With a pub on the motorway, you will be already driving, an activity incompatible with alcohol consumption, and then presented with alcohol as an appropriate beverage. This is getting it back to front.
I agree entirely about Little Chef. Those are the same as service stations and should not be selling alcohol.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 19 May 14 at 02:14
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"The difference is, you make a conscious decision to go to a normal pub or restaurant, and then decide how to get there and back."
That's just not true. There are loads of pubs on busy roads that primarily exist to serve the passing trade. Loads of people, myself included, stop at pubs, rather than use places like Little Chefs or transport cafes when making a trip by road. They don't make a preplanned decision to drive to a pub, they just see one by the road and think it's a good place for lunch
They are no different to a pub near a motorway services. They are fulfilling exactly the same purpose.
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You're still missing the point that a motorway service station is there ONLY to service drivers. No pub exists on this basis alone. Until now. And that's a step too far, IMHO.
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>> No pub exists on this basis alone.
There are many A Road pubs which have shut down through lack of trade when bypasses have been built, suggesting that you are being a little simplistic.
The A43 at Silverstone, for example.
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>> You're still missing the point that a motorway service station is there ONLY to service
>> drivers.
Alanovic shows his connection with the real world again by not realising that passengers are probably serviced by motorway service stations too.
Perhaps in his idealised world drivers and passengers would go to different pubs. Maybe the drivers, mostly male, go to the pub; passengers, mostly female, go to wine bars.
There's nothing wrong with a nice pint of beer with your sandwich before tackling the M25.
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Dear god. The passengers can't exist without the drivers. No-one builds a service station mainly for the use of passengers in driverless vehicles. Yet.
>> There's nothing wrong with a nice pint of beer with your sandwich before tackling the M25.
Let me know next you're planning that one. I'll take an alternative route. Even under the limit you're 5 times more likely to crash in to me after that pint.
www.dpti.sa.gov.au/roadsafety/Safer_behaviours/alcohol_drink_driving
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>>Dear god. The passengers can't exist without the drivers. No-one builds a service station
>>mainly for the use of passengers in driverless vehicles. Yet.
No, but people do build service stations mainly for the use of passengers.
Ever seen a coach?
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>> Ever seen a coach?
>>
Ever seen the millions more cars there are than coaches?
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Not entirely a new concept. Coaching inns and later Roadhouses come to mind.
I'm not the right person to have a rational view on the matter though. I'm not much of a drinker myself and by and large dislike the antics, demeanour and company of those who have been drinking.
People who, when sober, are interesting and amusing quite often become completely the opposite when they have had alcohol.
Give me the company of someone who has had 5 cigarettes before I meet them over someone who has had 5 drinks any day of the week. The former may well pong a bit of tobacco but they still at least are able to contribute usefully to a conversation.
( I don't smoke either btw )
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>> Even under the limit you're 5 times more likely to crash in to me after that pint.
>>
Alanovic, sorry but that is a totally unprovable and meaningless statistic
The vast majority of accidents have no police involvement and no measurement of alcohol
Even where police have been involved and someone has been breathalysed no measurement is ever done on actual consumption for anyone who passes a breath test.
No measurement is ever available on the number of people who drive accident free after 1 drink they cannot show on any statistics.
I would not in any way defend drinking anywhere near the limit and driving but throwing frankly silly statements of probability around with no basis in fact does not help.
As I said earlier, a lot of fuss about nothing IMHO, while it will get some business undoubtedly I would still expect the vast majority of visitors to the service area to visit the more "normal" facilities, most people do not stay long in service areas and a fast self service or take away meal is a far more likely stop for most people.
Last edited by: commerdriver on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 13:26
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>> Alanovic, sorry but that is a totally unprovable and meaningless statistic
Did you read my link, CD? Plenty of others are available too.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 13:30
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>> Did you read my link, CD? Plenty of others are available too.
>>
Yes I did read the link, it's the huge number of unresearched accidents and the far greater number of people who have had one drink or more but never come into any statistical evaluation that makes your statement and any study like the one in South Australia meaningless statistically.
Simple questions that can never be answered in any survey or research
How many people drive after one or two drinks in any period of time?
How many of them have accidents?
How many people who have not had anything to drink have accidents in that period of time?
None of these can be meaningfully answered, therefore statements like, you are 5 times more likely to crah into me after you have had a drink are not sensible statements to make.
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>> not sensible statements
>> to make.
>>
So are you more, or less likely to crash in to me after a drink? What do you think? What does "common sense" tell you"?
You can guess my answer.
Should we be encouraging situations which will, by definition, lead to more risky behaviour on the roads?
You can guess my answer.
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>> >> not sensible statements
>> >> to make.
>> >>
>>
>> So are you more, or less likely to crash in to me after a drink?
>> What do you think? What does "common sense" tell you"?
>>
>> You can guess my answer.
No-one disputes that
>> Should we be encouraging situations which will, by definition, lead to more risky behaviour on
>> the roads?
>>
>> You can guess my answer.
Your answer falls apart because you would have to ban every pub on every road.
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>> Your answer falls apart because you would have to ban every pub on every road.
>>
I've addressed that, several times.
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>> >> Your answer falls apart because you would have to ban every pub on every
>> road.
>> >>
>>
>> I've addressed that, several times.
Badly. Thats why you need to keep repeating it.
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>> So are you more, or less likely to crash in to me after a drink?
*A* drink? I don't know. Presumably now more rested, having taken a break from driving, relaxed etc. etc. you are less likely to lose concentration, suffer road rage, etc. etc.
I don't really know how those two factors might interact.
>> What do you think? What does "common sense" tell you"?
I don't know. But "5 times" is certainly unprovable and makes no more logical or scientific sense than 2 times, 8 times or not at all..
>> Should we be encouraging situations which will, by definition, lead to more risky
>> behaviour on the roads?
No. But where is the provable, reasonable and "by definition" link in this situation?
Do you advocate banning everybody from such establishments, or indeed banning such establishments in their entirety so that some possible risk is removed?
Perhaps we should just ban cars? That'd stop the problem.
You are being over the top here. IMO, of course.
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We have a situation where drink driving causes a problem on our roads. Adding licenses to motorway service stations exacerbates rather than diminishes that problem. That is a bad thing. IMHO. That is the basis of my thinking. What ever Zero says, that's fairly rational and reasonable. I don't think that's over the top. The words you are trying to put in my mouth are over the top.
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I wasn't intending to put words in your mouth.
I believe you see a provable and definite link of events where there may not be one, and in fact I think there probably isn't.
And I still don't believe that removing them or stopping them for all on the off chance of a risk to the minority is the right approach.
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>> We have a situation where drink driving causes a problem on our roads. Adding licenses
>> to motorway service stations exacerbates rather than diminishes that problem. That is a bad thing.
>> IMHO. That is the basis of my thinking. What ever Zero says, that's fairly rational
>> and reasonable. I don't think that's over the top. The words you are trying to
>> put in my mouth are over the top.
Yes there is a diminishing hard core of drink drivers but generally We don't have a problem where drink driving causes problems on our road. The anti attitude in the UK to drink driving is almost unique in the world. There is no "problem" to exacerbate. A pub next the motorway at Beaconsfield is going to exacerbate nothing.
No-one is putting words in your mouth, merely commenting that you appear to be ranting irrationally for no good reason.
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>> We have a situation where drink driving causes a problem on our roads.
Really? In such tiny numbers it's not worth worrying about. Over two thirds of drunk drivers causing a death in an accident are killing themselves, not third parties.
>>Adding licenses to motorway service stations exacerbates rather than diminishes that problem.
Do you have proof for that?
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>> Do you have proof for that?
It's a reasonable conclusion though. I suspect the Thames Valley Police will be aware of the scope for DoI amongst drivers leaving the site.
Sweepstake on how long before the first conviction of a Weatherspoons' MSA customer?
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"So are you more, or less likely to crash in to me after a drink? What do you think? What does "common sense" tell you"?"
I can tell you that after a decent lunch and a pint of beer, I can sleep anywhere …………. motorways included. I can recognise that - but the problem is the number of drivers who can't.
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My point exactly, Haywain.
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Alanovic, you are making mountains out of molehills and ranting for no good reason. There is no difference to having a pub on this location to having one just off any motorway exit, of which there are plenty, You want every pub within a mile of the motorway shut.
I know the reason why you are making a fuss, but you can't let that stop you being rational about this news item.
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>> Alanovic, you are making mountains out of molehills and ranting
Hardly.
>>for no good reason.
Plenty of good reason.
There
>> is no difference to having a pub on this location to having one just off
>> any motorway exit, of which there are plenty, You want every pub within a mile
>> of the motorway shut.
No, I've made the points against and the reasons why the two situations you compare are different. There are plenty of cheaper petrol stations "just off the motorway", but overpriced service stations stay in business for reasons of convenience. People use motorway service stations cafes out of convenience too, and there's no need to present them with alcohol when they would otherwise not think of leaving the motorway to go to a pub.
>> I know the reason why you are making a fuss, but you can't let that
>> stop you being rational about this news item.
I'm being perfectly rational. Disagreement does not make your interlocutor irrational in and of itself. There are plenty of people with the same opinion as mine.
I'll bet many of those arguing the position against mine would be of the opinion that our town centres are full of too many underpriced warehouse pubs where the youth of today are dragging our country to the dogs, and yet they're happy for that self same booze to be sloshing around our motorways because they like the idea of using it themselves. Well sorry, but there's a bit of hypocrisy going on here.
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>> >> Alanovic, you are making mountains out of molehills and ranting
>>
>> Hardly.
>>
>> >>for no good reason.
>>
>> Plenty of good reason.
>>
>> There
>> >> is no difference to having a pub on this location to having one just
>> off
>> >> any motorway exit, of which there are plenty, You want every pub within a
>> mile
>> >> of the motorway shut.
>>
>> No, I've made the points against and the reasons why the two situations you compare
>> are different. There are plenty of cheaper petrol stations "just off the motorway", but overpriced
>> service stations stay in business for reasons of convenience. People use motorway service stations cafes
>> out of convenience too, and there's no need to present them with alcohol when they
>> would otherwise not think of leaving the motorway to go to a pub.
Why do you seriously think the majority of motorway service station users are going to say "Great A weather spoons - lets get a few down our neck"
News for you my old son, they aint, There is NO difference between a pub on a motorway and a pub on any other road. Because its on a motorway services does not change the general british attitude to drink driving.
>> I'm being perfectly rational. Disagreement does not make your interlocutor irrational in and of itself.
>> There are plenty of people with the same opinion as mine.
Not on here there isn't. You are being totally irrational. Your arguments are irrational and don't hold up. At all, in any way.
>
>> using it themselves. Well sorry, but there's a bit of hypocrisy going on here.
No hypocrisy here by anyone. And because everyone generally disagrees with you is no grounds for continually saying "You are not getting it" We are not getting it because there is nothing to get.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 13:46
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Yawn.
See what I mean? You don't have to wait long for the next pathetic load of old crap.
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Saddening attitudes from supposed motoring enthusiasts.
And now the drink-driving apologist-in-chief has got out of bed. Great.
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>> the drink-driving apologist-in-chief has got out of bed.
But only to question the sanity of the 'stay off the roads when I'm driving unless your body is a temple' polemicist in chief.
Pubs won't be taken away from roads and the limit won't be reduced to zero. Most people have enough sense not to drive when their judgement and motor functions are disrupted by any drug. To demand total perfection in these areas is unealistic.
This is boring because it has been rehearsed endlessly on many occasions.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 14:08
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My personal view on this is that I can't see what the fuss is about. Someone adamant that they will drink and drive will do so whatever the location of the on or off premises retailer.
For me as a family man, if I am on a long journey with my wife and daughter then it is mostly going to be via motorway. Many services stations now (especially the new Cobham one on the M25) have a range of eateries, although they tend to be fast food, or a sit-down option that is (often) poor quality and (mainly) very expensive.
Wetherspoons would not normally be my destination of choice, but the beer is good (if I was not driving) and the food, whilst 'portion-controlled' and mass produced, is consistent quality for what it is, and well priced. If I was to stop at this services (I rarely would as it is not the easiest one to get in and out of on the M40) with my family then it would be nice to have the option of a pub which is more likely to be warmer and more welcoming than a services normally is, and I would have a diet coke, my wife a glass of wine, my daughter a soft drink, and we would have a sit-down meal.
Any muppet that thinks it is acceptable to drink and drive is just that. A muppet, but I can't help but think it is a little naïve (IMHO) to think that the majority of the general public are that stupid that they will suddenly be tempted to have a pint or two here and then get behind the wheel, which seems to be how the press is spinning the story.
Whilst I accept that there are a lot of idiots out there, it is not certain that they will suddenly have a couple of pints at a pub on the services instead of a coke from a fast food joint.
Where I live, most pubs are 'destination' pubs. I cant get a decent sunday roast at a pub without getting in a car to go there, and everyone at the popular ones does that. The drivers also drink soft drinks, or get a taxi. I have not in many years seen someone drive there, have a couple and then drive home.
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I'm sorry Alanovic, I too understand with your personal antagonism to the principle of alcohol sales on motorways, but I really do think you're tilting at windmills here.
Apart from the smoking ban, the other government-enforced social change which has decimated most pubs (as opposed to restaurants) is the modern perspective on drinking and driving. Which of course is not a bad thing from a road safety perspective.
Here's one for you to ponder; given that the Wetherspoons will be guaranteed to have CCTV fitted, and also that the management will be encouraged to be "socially responsible" you can bet your life that any driver rash enough to sit in there and have more than three pints will find the plod sitting outside waiting for him to leave, having been tipped off by the bar staff.
For the record, most of the bigger truckstops have bars too, have you tried banning them?
I'd also be interested to see if the pricing structure conforms to the usual rip-off norms on or near motorways.
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Three pints? You think three pints is OK? Crikey, I like a drink but three pints is enough for me to have trouble getting through the doorway. I don't want anyone around me on the motorway anywhere near three pints.
Never mind plod catching the odd miscreant. It's the ones they miss I'm worried about.
Truckers have beds in their cabs. Sales reps in black Audis glued to my bumper when I'm overtaking a truck could probably benefit from being as sober as possible.
How about this to ponder. When someone drives to a normal pub, and then goes over the limit, and decides to walk home, or call the wife to pick them up, they can do so easily and collect the car the next morning. You want to do that on the M40? No, me neither. Chances are that person will risk it and drive. Not good.
Many of you here evidently disagree with my points against. Fine. be my guest. But what is the argument in favour other than, well, why not? There is no good reason in favour of going ahead with these establishments, they serve no benefit, nor fulfill any reasonable need, whatsoever. IMHO.
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>>But what is the argument in favour other than, well, why not? There is no good reason in favour of going ahead with these establishments, they serve no benefit, nor fulfill any reasonable need, whatsoever. IMHO.
Well, I thought that was what I stated in my comment?
Nicer environment, probably better priced food, my wife can have a nice glass of Pinot, my daughter gets a decent choice of soft drinks, there will be a menu with a decent range of food including things like veg and salad that will be leaps and bounds better that a normal services offering, and I won't be kicked as hard in the wallet if they stick even vaguely close to Wetherspoon's historic pricing policy. It's a win-win for a family like mine, and I would guess the vast majority of clients think the same. I would not risk a single pint, and I would expect this is what you would see in reality.
I completely understand and respect your position - drink driving is a no-no - and I would think most people would agree, but there is another position where by having another choice regarding a retailer can be a good thing. Maybe people like me are not getting the other point across, but I would think my view is possibly quite widely held.
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That's a fair enough position, SFD.
But I'd say this: why should that alternative food retailer be a business who is also focused on selling as much alcohol as possible (in fact, that's their raison d'etre)? Yes, we could do with better eating facilities on the motorway. No doubt. But there's no need for it to be licensed. JDW would go nowhere near this if they weren't allowed to sell booze. Any company has always been free to set up restaurants on motorway service areas, the fact that so far only those who run unlicensed premises have done so thus far is telling: it's not the right place for pubs. Hopefully, it will be an economic failure and they'll pull out quietly.
However, you're right, it would be nice to have better eateries in the services.
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>>But I'd say this: why should that alternative food retailer be a business who is also focused on selling as much alcohol as possible (in fact, that's their raison d'etre)? Yes, we could do with better eating facilities on the motorway. No doubt. But there's no need for it to be licensed. JDW would go nowhere near this if they weren't allowed to sell booze.
It's is an interesting thought, but pubs hardly make any money on the alcoholic drink. The numbers of pubs that can survive on beer sales alone are tiny, and normally city centre ones where the volume sold is huge and small margins are acceptable.
Pubs have to serve food just to survive, and that is where the profit margin is. I was in a Wetherspoons in Birmingham last week with a colleague as the selection of real ales was great and a pint of Ruddles best (not the best beer in the world, but perfectly fine) was £1.99. Deduct the cost of the beer, the taxes the government levied on it, the VAT I paid on it, the distribution cost to get it from brewer to W'spoons and from them to the pub, less the cost of the staff to serve it and the rent / rates f the establishment selling it, and the profit left over is 1/2 of next to nothing. Sell a sandwich or a burger however, where the ingredients do cost pennies and the selling price is in multiples of pounds gives you a quick and clear understanding of why Weatherspoons are there. The profit on soft drinks, brought in mainly in concentrate forms and reconstituted at the pump with fizzy water is vastly higher than the beer too. They are not there to sell alcohol, but that is the intrinsic nature of a pub that it does, and this is part of their brand.
I think Wetherspoons will be the first company to put their head above the parapet, and fair play to them for taking the flak first. I reckon in a few years there will be a number of chain 'restaurants' doing the same thing, selling alcoholic drinks and we will scarcely notice.
Is this a good thing? I shrug my shoulders, and don't think I really care enough for it to bother me...
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>>When someone drives to a normal pub, and then goes over the limit, and decides to walk home, or call the wife to pick them up, they can do so easily and collect the car the next morning.
So nobody should drink in a pub more than an hour from home? A silly argument and you seem to be grasping at straws.
And are you not missing the possibility that a pub on an A road is perhaps far more of a hazard? But even then, we stop in them and one of us doesn't drink. Turns out its not compulsory.
>>But what is the argument in favour other than, well, why not?
Because I am often a passenger and I often fancy a pint and I would like the opportunity to have one. And I do not drink and drive, and even if I did (and I don't) it would be in the local village not 100 miles from home on a motorway in a Weatherspoons pub by the motorway.
And when I am driving, then my wife might like a glass of wine. etc. etc.
Pretty much the same justification as for selling a coca cola or a chocolate bar - because people would make use of them and there is seemingly no reason why they shouldn't.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 14:34
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>> Three pints? You think three pints is OK? Crikey, I like a drink but three
>> pints is enough for me to have trouble getting through the doorway. I don't want
>> anyone around me on the motorway anywhere near three pints.
>>
I never said it was OK, so please do not attribute statements to me that I haven't made; either that or let your blood pressure reduce to the level where you can read something properly then comprehend it fully before replying.
Your argument is becoming increasingly one-eyed. Yes, truckers do have beds in their cabs, but they also have early start times, and who's to say that one of them would not have a couple of pints near closing time and then set off at say, 3am before it had cleared his system?
Likewise, I can see this establishment being a great benefit to anyone who's unfortunate enough to have to stay in the Travelodge or whichever budget hotel is on the site. If they're daft enough to drink to excess in the pub then set off in the car before they've dried out, then they deserve all they get. Banning the pub will not deter the serious drinker, who will no doubt have a bottle of spirits in his luggage which he'll quaff in the lonely misery of a motel room, the more likely to make him drink to excess than in the relatively pleasant surroundings of a boozer.
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>> I never said it was OK, so please do not attribute statements to me that
>> I haven't made; either that or let your blood pressure reduce to the level where
>> you can read something properly then comprehend it fully before replying.
Please don't patronise. It was implicit in your three pints comment that fewer than 3 wouldn't be a concern. Maybe you didn't mean that. But it looked like it.
>> Your argument is becoming increasingly one-eyed.
Apart form the couple of points I've conceded (e.g to SFD). Not many concessions or even a acceptance that other positions are valid coming the other way from the multi-eyed.
Travelodges? If you're daft enough to stay in one on a motorway you deserve a Wetherspoons.
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>> Three pints? You think three pints is OK? Crikey, I like a drink but three pints is enough for me to have trouble getting through the doorway. I don't want anyone around me on the motorway anywhere near three pints.
OK Alanović, you have or believe you have an unusually low tolerance for alcohol by adult male standards. You are quite right not to drive when you have had a pint and are drunk. You are quite wrong to assume everyone is like you in this way. Some are made of sterner stuff.
The effects of drugs vary between individuals and vary according to an individual's psychic and physical state. Anyone who intends to drive after taking drink is responsible for assessing the state of their own judgement and motor functions. Most manage quite well.
Those who don't manage so well will always be with us whether we like it or not. Of course they are no more of a danger to other road users than countless sober but stupid and incompetent drivers. But we all know that don't we?
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Nice macho crap there AC. Me not real man. I get it. If only you knew.
Drinking and then driving implies that you're stupid and incompetent in the first place. I'll take stupid and incompetent over drunk, stupid and incompetent, thanks. There's your inadequate man, AC.
We all know that though, surely?
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What on earth are you talking about? I don't doubt that you're a real man. But you say you are staggering drunk on three pints. That seems to me - and I assure you I'm not macho at all - to be a low tolerance by adult male standards.
>> Drinking and then driving implies that you're stupid and incompetent in the first place.
It doesn't imply anything of the sort. What rubbish.
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Motorway service stations are often expensive and usually far too busy for comfort. That's why quite a few books and even a website or two list quickly reached alternatives just a short distance from motorways, such as:
www.cheviotbooks.co.uk/
www.offmotorway.com/
Hardly rocket science, but why people should be getting so het up about this new Weatherspoons is puzzling. No difference to stopping at a pub on a main road.
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Ah well. I seem to be the only one able to spot the obvious differences with my single eye. Think what I could achieve with two.
;-) Oh hang on, one of them is closed! :-) That's better.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 15:57
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>>I seem to be the only one able to spot the obvious differences with my single eye.
Perhaps. Sadly though you don't seem to be able to explain them.
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If you can't understand my copious and eloquent explanations, that's hardly my fault. I'm not typing them all out again. It's all up there ^^.
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>> If you can't understand my copious and eloquent explanations, that's hardly my fault. I'm not
>> typing them all out again. It's all up there ^^.
>>
I don't see "copious and eloquent explanations", I only see someone with an extreme view on drink driving, maybe in your case an understandable one, who will not accept that any less extreme, more balanced view is valid.
Nobody on here supports drunk driving but many (most?) don't have too much of a problem with someone who has had (say) 1 drink, possibly with a meal, getting back into a car and driving. If that's not your view, fine, but don't start the "stupid and incompetent" accusations, I think that was one of your eloquent phrases :-)
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>> I don't see "copious and eloquent explanations", I only see someone with an extreme view
>> on drink driving, maybe in your case an understandable one, who will not accept that
>> any less extreme, more balanced view is valid.
Why do people keep saying this? I've said several times that I accept other views as valid and conceded some points on the other side. How many more times do I have to say that? Do you not read what I write? Why is it I who am not accepting others' views when no-one is accepting mine as valid and writing them off as unintelligible and extreme? I've got an opinion and haven't been won over to the other side, just like everyone else in this discussion so far. Mine stands to be changed should I believe I've heard a better argument. Does that go for everyone? I don't know.
Hope that clears it up.
>> "stupid and incompetent" accusations, I think that was one of your eloquent phrases :-)
>>
AC passed me that ball, I stuck it in the net. I thank him for the eloquent phrase.
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>> I've got an opinion and haven't been won over to the other side, just like everyone else in this discussion so far. Mine stands to be changed should I believe I've heard a better argument.
Actually Alanović it seems to me that attitudes in this area are very resistant to rational argument. They seem more a matter of ingrained personal principle. It's not really surprising given the variable effects of drugs on different individuals.
You cool more or less. Peace and love man...
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I'm a bit bored, I'll go for it.
Is effective communication of an idea the responsibility of the speaker (writer) or the listener (reader)?
In whose interest is the explanation of an idea, the person who holds that idea and wishes to spread it, or the person who is ignorant of that idea and doesn't care one way or another?
And if the effort of typing clarification or explanation outweighs the importance you attach to the issue, then why should I try particularly hard to listen or understand?
Also, I feel that the arbiter of eloquence should the the audience, not the author.
I'll give you "copious" though.
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I'm sure Thomas Hobbes was eloquent, but I'm damned if I can understand all of what he says. At least I tried. I'm not going to accuse him of ineloquence because I'm not up to the job of understanding something.
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>>At least I tried. I'm not going to accuse him of ineloquence because I'm not up to the job of understanding something.
What was it you said about putting words in mouths? - I did not comment on whether or not you were eloquent. I commented on teh fact that you made that claim for your arguments.
And lets not be silly; do you truly believe that you are capable of saying something that I am not "up to the job of understanding"? Because if so, then you're misjudging one of us.
However, given your earlier approach I assume that you take responsibility for not understanding what I said rather than attributing any fault to me?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 17:25
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>> Sadly though you don't seem to be able to explain them.
He does make heavy weather of it, but the argument seems to be as follows:
Alanovic gets completely ratted on three pints. Therefore he regards anyone who drives after drinking anything as stupid and incompetent. He doesn't want such drivers on the road when he is on the road. As a step in the right direction, he doesn't want a new Wetherspoon's to be opened on or near some motorway. He say's there's 'no need' for it, having failed to register that branches of businesses are opened not to provide a service for consumers, but to generate profit for their owners and to beat the competition.
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Carry on AC. Rowley Birkin QC would be proud.
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>> Alanovic gets completely ratted on three pints.
Well, "enough for me to have trouble getting through the doorway", which I think is pretty much how I'd feel assuming reasonable strength beer (4%) and rate of consumption. Safe though - wouldn't be able to get the key in the ignition :)
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 17:06
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I couldn't physically drink 3 pints. Not the alcohol effect but simply the volume. One pint on a hot evening is lovely but I get halfway down the second and my stomach feels like it's hanging over my belt and is going to burst !
Whisky however...
In the main though, I avoid alcohol. I can't really remember learning anything useful from my encounters with it whether it has been consumed by me or others in my vicinity.
Some say they need it to catalyse social encounters. I find it has the opposite effect. I far prefer the company of people with their wits about them than those who have chemically numbed them. Including myself.
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>> It doesn't imply anything of the sort. What rubbish.
>>
None so blind as those that won't see.
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"Some are made of sterner stuff."
Very true AC. I remember watching Bill Werbeniuk (1 pint per frame) who couldn't play well until he was approaching double figures (pints, not points). Good times.
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I'd rather Wetherspoon's food and prices than typical motorways services' ones.
I wonder if they'll jack the prices up like they do at the NEC. I expect so.
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>> You're still missing the point that a motorway service station is there ONLY to service
>> drivers. No pub exists on this basis alone. Until now. And that's a step too
>> far, IMHO.
>>
I thought coaching inns were an ancient feature of the British transport network?
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Alanovic does come across as one of the most charming and persuasive people. What fun he'd be to bump into in a pub.
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Bit harsh.
I'd drink with him, argue with him and expect to enjoy both.
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>> I'd drink with him, argue with him and expect to enjoy both.
Me too. There are subjects other than drink driving.
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>> Bit harsh.
It's OK, look at who wrote it. Some might say he needs a long hard look in the mirror.
>> I'd drink with him, argue with him and expect to enjoy both.
>>
Likewise (NF and AC). The Pack Saddle is nice these days............can walk home from there too.
PS. Lots of scowlies flying about. None from me, and no doubt none from NF, nor AC neither. Rum.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 22 Jan 14 at 09:43
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Not been in the Pack Saddle since I last played golf at Mapledurham, so that's got to be 8 or 9 years and its only been done up fairly recently hasn't it?
I quite like the Pack Horse, although I guess you couldn't walk home from there so easily, although I have done.
No, there's no scowlies from me.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 22 Jan 14 at 12:09
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Aye, Pack Saddle's just had a full make over. Favourable reports thought haven't been for a year or so myself. Pack Horse was always nicer, but like you say not safely walkable, and now part of a chain, which always puts me off.
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>> Alanovic does come across as one of the most charming and persuasive people. What fun
>> he'd be to bump into in a pub.
>>
Given his professed aversion, I'd make an exception to my usual rules and head straight for Weatherspoons. ;-)
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I'm not joining in the argument because I can see (though not necessarily agree with) some points on both side of the argument.
However, and I hope I'm not making a point already made, I reckon Wetherspoons have their heads screwed on. I wonder how many coaches/cars go down to London every weekend (and many weekdays) for football/rugby/cricket/tennis? Where will their last stop be?
And on the return, after struggling to get out of London for a couple of hours, where will their first stop be?
One would hope that the coach/car driver would stick to soft drinks or coffee!
Also, I drove from Swindon to E Midlands the other day via A 429 and Old Fosse Way. Loads of nice pubs on the way, and Moreton-in-the Marsh looks like a great place for a pub crawl!! Did I stop? Nope - but got a good coffee from a Wild Bean BP station!
You ain't going to stop habitual drinkers. At any MS these days I could buy a bottle of red (or even a bottle of whisky) with a screw cap and sit swigging it (with a cigar outside?) but I don't. Some drivers may do that - I hope I don't meet them.
Truckstops and bars? Stayed in a few. Watched and sat/chatted to drivers in the bar. Pint of lager with their curry and off to their cabs by about 9 pm; after that the places are dead.
AIMHO of course.
I won't be having a pint at Beaconsfield Services (very nice pub just down the road though ;-) and the 74 bus goes right past services and pub!
P
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>> Given his professed aversion
Which one?
;-)
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Here's a boozer right by what used to be the main road in to Cornwall, it's up for sale if y'all interested.
£2million quid: goo.gl/maps/KyxID
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Good idea - I will certainly use it on my jaunts along the M40. Cheap food. I don't care what anyone says, the local one in Caernarfon is just fine.
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>> Good idea - I will certainly use it on my jaunts along the M40. Cheap food. I don't care what anyone says, the local one in Caernarfon is just fine.
>>
Might see you there... often drop in for a Maccy D, so will try the Wetherspoons...
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>> I don't care what anyone says, the local one in Caernarfon is just fine.
>>
Quite right, really. There's one in Caversham I use when I'm meeting a large group of people, usually before moving to a restaurant. It's fine, and the beer's well kept and cheap. There's a couple in central Reading I'd avoid though. They're just pubs, some are fine, some are full of idiots. Doesn't matter what the sign says over the door.
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>> Quite right, really. There's one in Caversham I use when I'm meeting a large group
>> of people, usually before moving to a restaurant. It's fine, and the beer's well kept
>> and cheap. There's a couple in central Reading I'd avoid though. They're just pubs, some
>> are fine, some are full of idiots. Doesn't matter what the sign says over the
>> door.
The clientèle varies as well. When we take Miss B back to Uni in Sheffield we usually have lunch at Wetherspoon's Sheaf Island. It's generally full of diners mostly couples and families.
Last Saturday Sheffield United were playing at home. Opposition were Bradford City so something of a Derby. Place was full of fans, mostly Blades but a few with Amber/Purple City scarves, having pre match drinks. Noisy but never boisterous but nonetheless a very different place from non match day.
Similar routine with Lad in Liverpool in which case its Childwall Fiveways. Now that one does come a bit nearer Zedo's stereotype. Too far from Anfield or Goodison to be invaded on match days though.
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>> First pint served at 9.21am :o
>> www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543573/9-21am-pint-pulled-pub-motorway-services-I-think-ridiculous-says-businessman-bar-Wetherspoons-latest-opening.html
>> (although he didn't finish it)
>>
Strange.
Much better looking and a heck of a lot younger than I remember Zero to be!
Perhaps he sent his boy?
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>> >> First pint served at 9.21am :o
>> >> www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543573/9-21am-pint-pulled-pub-motorway-services-I-think-ridiculous-says-businessman-bar-Wetherspoons-latest-opening.html
>> >> (although he didn't finish it)
>> >>
>>
>> Strange.
>>
>> Much better looking and a heck of a lot younger than I remember Zero to
>> be!
>>
>> Perhaps he sent his boy?
thinner, too.
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0920 is a bit early for a beer. Unless the press were paying!
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"Mr Gershon [spokesman] said the pub’s trade is expected to be 25 per cent alcoholic drinks, compared to 65 per cent in high street branches, and added that no alcoholic drinks were promoted at the bar."
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I really don't see what difference this pub being open is, to other nearby Wetherspoon establishments in the Beaconsfield area.
eg
The Falcon - 9 Cornmarket, High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. HP11 2AX (4.73 Miles away)
The William Robert Loosley - 120-123 Oxford Road, High Wycombe. HP11 2DN (4.95 Miles away)
The Bear - 8–10 High Street, Maidenhead. SL6 1QJ (6.77 Miles away)
The Greyhound - 86-92 Queen Street, Maidenhead. SL6 1HT (7.03 Miles away)
Source - www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/home/pubs/find/beaconsfield?_frameset=true
If people who are driving want to stop for a drink, then they're going to, regardless of location.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 22 Jan 14 at 10:31
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"I really don't see what difference this pub being open is, to other nearby Wetherspoon establishments in the Beaconsfield area."
Alanović will explain. ;-)
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>> "I really don't see what difference this pub being open is, to other nearby Wetherspoon
>> establishments in the Beaconsfield area."
>>
>>
>> Alanović will explain. ;-)
>>
But none of us will understand.
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Plenty of people do. This from the BBC Bucks article:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-25824255
"The RAC claimed a survey of 2,000 people suggested only 12% supported putting pubs into motorway service stations.
About two-thirds said they did not agree with the move, with older drivers more likely to oppose the sale of alcohol at motorway service areas.
RAC's head of external affairs Pete Williams said: "The public appear to be very much against the introduction of motorway pubs.
"In our view this is a risky and, frankly, unnecessary move.""
I'm not alone on here even, judging by the fact there seem to be some thumbs in agreement with me. On balance the the vote on here does seem to be with the other side, I'll admit. But if we went about making public policy on the basis of the majority view on C4P, I think we'd be in a lot of trouble pretty sharpish.
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>> Plenty of people do.
"The RAC claimed a survey of 2,000 people suggested only 12% supported putting pubs into motorway service stations.
RAC's head of external affairs Pete Williams said: "The public appear to be very much against the introduction of motorway pubs"
Best we close all pubs within 10 miles of any road then, and while we're at it remove car parks from all pubs.
As has already been stated - this pub makes no difference to any other pub thats within reach of a car journey.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 22 Jan 14 at 14:05
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Sigh.
Just because people CAN drive to pubs doesn't mean the pub should be closed.
Where a pub exists which people HAVE TO drive to, then that's a pub in an unsuitable location, as drinking and driving are not suitable bed fellows.
Yes, I know roadhouses on A roads are still around and used to exist in larger numbers. I think they are also unsuitable licensed premises. They used to exist in larger numbers because drinking and driving used to be more socially acceptable, and less frequently punished with less severe sentences. They have mostly gone out of business, as most of those in favour of the new motorway pub admit. Good.
This is an explanation of why I think this new pub unsuitable, and it's a most simple approach to understand, even if you disagree with it, which you are most welcome to do.
I also refer the honorable gentlemen to my posts explaining this as follows:
Tue 21 Jan 14 09:59
Tue 21 Jan 14 11:08
Tue 21 Jan 14 10:56.
I hope this is in no way taken as one-eyed, nor taken as a rant, nor construed as being an inadequate explanation of a reasonable and, dare I say it, rational position to take, which has wide support in the real world, as evidenced by the RAC's comments.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 22 Jan 14 at 14:20
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Meant to add, I find myself in the unsettling position of agreeing entirely with the comment in the Sun's editorial:
"Normally we'd cheer the opening of a new pub to the rafters. A Wetherspoon's on the M40 is a needless temptation. Britain's motorways are safe. Why do anything to make them less so?"
Cheers all.
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OK I will stick my head above the parapet
The bit I disagree with, both with you and with the lady from Brake in the article above, is that I don't have a problem with having a glass of wine, with a meal over a 1 hour or more period and hen driving home or the rest of the way on my journey.
I treat the idea that 1 drink is too much as just as extreme an idea that say 75-80 mph on an empty motorway turns me into some kind of homicidal speed merchant.
I believe that most of the people on here and in general have a fairly sensible attitude to alcohol and will not drive after any substantial amount of alcohol, in my case 1 drink.
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>> I believe that most of the people on here and in general have a fairly sensible attitude to alcohol and will not drive after any substantial amount of alcohol, in my case 1 drink.
Not just here, but people in general. The problem comes with indiviuals who don't notice, or don't care, when relaxed and mellow starts to verge on clumsy and confused.
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No one is saying you're likely to turn in to a homicidal speed merchant, cd.
It's my contention that 1 drink is sufficient to impair the judgement of any individual to a level where split second decisions, which we need to make when driving, especially at high speed, can be affected negatively. I believe that's an unnecessary increase in the risk we all take in using the roads. I believe any amount of alcohol (which I enjoy enormously) can have soporific effects and can lead to reduced attention levels, both of which are strongly incompatible with driving, including on a motorway.
Like I said above, cheers.
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>>alcohol (which
>> I enjoy enormously) can have soporific effects and can lead to reduced attention levels, both
>> of which are strongly incompatible with driving, including on a motorway.
>>
Good meals are soporific too.
Lettuce is a famous soporificant - read "The Tale of Peter Rabit". :)
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Alanovic>>Where a pub exists which people HAVE TO drive to, then that's a pub in an unsuitable
>>location, as drinking and driving are not suitable bed fellows.
That's it for most village pubs, as they rely on people driving to them from outside the village.
That's it for country pubs.
So you think that an Act of Parliament should be used to close all pubs that are not in urban environments?
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So what *do* you think should happen to all these unsuitable pubs? (and restaurants.)
maps.google.co.uk/maps?oe=&ie=UTF-8&q=Le+Manoir+aux+Quat'Saisons&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=manoir+aux+quat'saisons&cid=11726142062128682798&ei=RebfUs6zKIvg7QbjzIFo&ved=0CMABEPwSMA0
clearly is unable to sustain itself on the basis of those who can walk to the pub.
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Le Manoir aux Quat'Saisons. A great comparator for Wetherspoons on the M40. People will often stay overnight or splash out on taxis to go to Le Manoir. Once in a lifetime stuff.
I can't see anyone bothering with that palaver to go for Thursday Night is Curry Night at Wetherspoons on the M40.
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I'll try again:
So what *do* you think should happen to all these unsuitable pubs? (and restaurants.)
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>> I'll try again:
>>
>> So what *do* you think should happen to all these unsuitable pubs? (and restaurants.)
>>
I'll try again too. There is only one at the moment. It's on the M40 at Beaconsfield. It's the first of a new breed of pub which really shouldn't exist. There you go. everything else out there is a legacy of more, erm, innocent times and should be allowed to stand or fall on its own merits/economics. But there's no need to introduce this new kind, specifically on a motorway, thereby weakening the excellent safety record our motorways have. I do not accept that there are other pubs around where the only option is to drive to it - you are not allowed *by law* to walk on motorways, no other roads are like this. Yes, I know it would be suicide to walk on some A roads to an A road roadhouse. But it's theoretically possible.
And The Sun agrees with me. So I must be right. If the Daily Mail agrees, then I'll change my mind.
;-)
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>> there's no need to introduce this new kind, specifically on a motorway
But it's "not" on a motorway. It's nearer the A355 than the M40.
It's no different to leaving the A34 at Abingdon, and popping into the Giraffe restaurant at Tesco (who serve alcohol), the Ock Mill Beefeater, and other local pubs/restaurants within a stones throw of the A34. eg, the Swan or The Crown & Horns at East Ilsley, or The Toby Carvery just off the Robin Hood roundabout at Newbury.
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Again. It is different because it's signposted from a motorway and intended only for use of motorway drivers as a rest and recuperation stop. Alcohol has no place in that scenario.
It's different.
It's different.
It's different.
How many times.
You may disagree with me and say that there's no problem with booze on a motorway - fine. Go ahead. But you can not deny there's a difference, as described above.
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>> It's different.
Your wrong
>> It's different.
Your wrong
>> It's different.
Your wrong
>> How many times.
Yes how many times indeed
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>>
>> >> It's different.
>> Your wrong
>> >> It's different.
>> Your wrong
>> >> It's different.
>> Your wrong
>> >> How many times.
>> Yes how many times indeed
>>
And I think you're wrong. I think also that we've established that.
Is a Giraffe restaurant designed and built as a rest stop to provide refreshment for drivers, and for no other purpose? No, It's just a restaurant. The fact that drivers do go there is immaterial.
Is a motorway service station designed and built as a rest and refreshment stop for drivers? Yes. Does it serve any other purpose? No. There's no need. So why put alcohol in it? No reason.
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>> Is a motorway service station designed and built as a rest and refreshment stop for
>> drivers? Yes. Does it serve any other purpose? No. There's no need. So why put
>> alcohol in it? No reason.
In the case of Beaconsfield, there are other service providers too.
The determined drinker/alcoholic could simply call into M&S Simply Food for his fix if he so wishes. No need to call into Wetherspoons, especially if they're a snob.
Besides, if someone does get drunk, they have the option to sleep it off in the onsite Ibis Hotel.
I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Still as long as it sells newspapers and people believe what they read in them, that's all that matters.
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>> It is different because it's signposted from a motorway
I've seen loads of signs on the side of roads advertising pubs ahead.
>> You may disagree with me and say that there's no problem with booze on a motorway - fine.
Yawn. It's no different to booze being freely available on any road.
If people aren't able to moderate their drink levels, then it won't matter whether they buy it at a M-way services, or the local Off licence. The end result will still be the same, they'll either get done for DD, cause an accident, or both.
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>>But it's "not" on a motorway. It's nearer the A355 than the M40.
>>
Letter in the DT today.
Motorway drinking
.....insane. After drinking too much at a pub , you can walk home or take a taxi; you have no such choice on a motorway, where you have no choice of driving slowly either. Drinkers won't drink " responsibly" especially if young and macho. When tired from driving, alcohol is a great solace and temptation. This decision will open the floodgates for other motorway outlets to secure this lucrative trade.
Wendy
Bristol.
So now you know.
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>> Wendy
>> Bristol.
She's a woman. What does she know.
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She may not always have been.
Anyway, never heard of a boy named Sue?
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There's many a William gone to Bristol and come back a Wendy... bit of a hotbed for that sort of thing.
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You are wrong on even the basic facts of location let alone anything else.
Your argument fails the basic test so the rest is built on sand.
I suggest you visit the site before you get further sucked in by media hysteria.
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"Where a pub exists which people HAVE TO drive to, then that's a pub in an unsuitable location, as drinking and driving are not suitable bed fellows"
Blimey, there wouldn't be many pubs left round here if they closed those down as "unsuitable".
But, you have revived some happy memories of when I was a very irresponsible lad aged 18ish "growing up" in rural North Yorkshire. A few of my mates (and girlfriends) had cars and we used to go out to remote pubs for a drink at weekends. Some of them were hard to get to even by car! But - even then, before the advent of breathalysers, the driver did not drink or only had one drink (and chicken in a basket!!).
Try these
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/yorkshire-living/food-drink/pubs-restaurants-wine-recipes/pub-of-the-week-the-moorcock-inn-langdale-end-1-3897153
www.the-falconinn.co.uk/
www.hayburnwykeinn.co.uk/new_page_5.htm
www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9017352.One_of_North_Yorkshire___s_most_famous_pubs_to_reopen/?ref=rc
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/yorkshire-living/food-drink/pubs-restaurants-wine-recipes/pub-of-the-week-mill-inn-harwood-dale-1-5645204
Happy days!!
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>> "Where a pub exists which people HAVE TO drive to, then that's a pub in
>> an unsuitable location, as drinking and driving are not suitable bed fellows"
>>
>> Blimey, there wouldn't be many pubs left round here if they closed those down as
>> "unsuitable".
Blimey, another one in the "Blind Camp"
Its getting awfully crowded in here.
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>>"The RAC claimed a survey of 2,000 people suggested only 12% supported putting pubs into motorway service stations.
Absolutely not addressing your point at all, but considering surveys;
How were the 2,000 selected, how were they asked etc. etc.
I guarantee there will be selection bias and unbalanced questioning.
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So? I know surveys are flawed.
I'm just using it to prove that I'm not alone in my thinking, not by a long chalk, as several posters on here seem to think, nor that my position is in some way irrational or unexplainable, or unexplained.
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>> nor that my position is in some way irrational or unexplainable, or unexplained.
No, it's easy to follow. Perhaps its weakness is the wish to be rational beyond a certain point.
Life isn't rational after all. Nor are road layouts, cars, towns or villages. Or drivers a lot of the time. Rationality is a human tool applied in many circumstances on a sort of technical level. It works better sometimes and in some ways than in others.
Nothing will prevent drunk and reckless drivers from being present on the road sometimes. They are already quite rare because people don't approve of them and they stand to be banned when caught.
Nothing will make all or even most drivers properly competent while more and more of them are needed on the road to keep the world economy going. But most of them mimse along fairly non-lethally most of the time having a sense of self-preservation.
So trying to reduce these rare dangers still further seems to me a waste of effort, liable to do you more harm than good. There's an element of lottery in life and nothing can eliminate it. Relax a bit why not.
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>> So trying to reduce these rare dangers still further seems to me a waste of
>> effort
There's a difference between trying to reduce rare dangers and introducing a measure likely to increase them, such as the one under discussion here. Maybe you're right, there's little point in the former. But I'd argue the latter should be avoided. And maybe there's little overall increase in the risk caused by opening this pub. But I'm not comfortable with that small increase, and many others aren't also. You're comfortable with it: fine.
I'm perfectly relaxed, as ever, and will also be losing no sleep. But I'll speak my mind if that's OK.
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>> So? I know surveys are flawed.
>>
>> I'm just using it to prove that I'm not alone in my thinking, not by
>> a long chalk, as several posters on here seem to think, nor that my position
>> is in some way irrational or unexplainable, or unexplained.
Anyway, its there now, its staying, more will follow. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 22 Jan 14 at 18:01
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>>
>> Anyway, its there now, its staying, more will follow. I wouldn't loose any sleep over
>> it.
>>
>>
Just don't light a cigarette too near the doorway.
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>> >>
>> >> Anyway, its there now, its staying, more will follow. I wouldn't loose any sleep
>> over
>> >> it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> Just don't light a cigarette too near the doorway.
Not moving too far away from the doorway, get mowed down by the hoards of drunk drivers.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 22 Jan 14 at 18:51
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The antithesis to the new Weatherspoons: The Berney Arms. You can only get to it by rail, boat or on foot as it doesn't have any road access at all.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-22226021
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>> The Berney Arms. You can only get to it
>> by rail, boat or on foot as it doesn't have any road access at all.
>>
>>
I spent a boozey evening there in 1984 waiting for the tide for crossing Breydon Water by moonlight.
They shouldn't build pubs on major waterways, it just encourages sailors to stop there.
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I normally walk to it across the marshes. Haven't checked it out since the new owner took over. I'll wait till the marshes dry out a bit!
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Just as my final throw on the matter, had a quick look at streetview, there is actually a bus stop right outside the entrance to the services on the A355, as an extra option should anyone wish to visit the establishment and have a few drinks.
Also in our family the main reason for visiting a service area on a motorway journey is rarely rest and refreshment, wife and daughter usually make another stop first in the service area. Maybe the ones in the Wetherspoons will be cleaner and have less of a queue :-)
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Ah, the McWee angle. Good point.
;-)
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"a bus stop right outside the entrance to the services on the A355,"
Number 74 - Slough to High Wycombe! (I think!) Every 30 mins or so.
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>> "a bus stop right outside the entrance to the services on the A355,"
>>
>> Number 74 - Slough to High Wycombe! (I think!) Every 30 mins or so.
>>
X74 cuts out Beaconsfield (uses M40 Beaconsfield to Loudwater ) giving you 10 minutes more drinking time!
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No but I notice there is a caddish Jag outside the place.
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New Wetherspoons open on M40 at Beaconsfield - legacylad
