Mrs G got a parking ticket yesterday apparently for the offence "pakred adjacent to a dropped footway"
In fact she parked straddling a "raised roadway"... they built recently I guess what you could call "speed ramps", they are the full width of road but the kind of width that in some cases sees them painted as zebra crossings, more like a ramp than a bump but in this case not painted with any markings at all.
Anyway, no yellow lines, single or double, a sign along the stretch of road that indicates parking is allowed between 10am and 2pm, and as said, although the road is raised to level with pavement where she parked, the pavement is not lowered, and is NOT marked in anyway as a crossing, except (hindsight is great), the pavement at that point has "bobbles" which I think are sometimes used to help the blind find a crossing?
I have seen many types of traffic calming measures, including this kind of ramp/raised roadway, but with no parking regulations indicated at side to inform of any difference betwen here and where the road drops down, whats is the forums perspective
Thanks
GUY
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If its recognised as a crossing point in a road, and she straddle parked across same, I would say its probably justified.
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Was the ticket issued by the local Council and if so what's the fine? Depending on the amount at stake it might be worth punting the discounted rate on a trip to the adjudicator. Might also be worth looking through DfT or LA website to see if any definition of dropped footway has been provided.
Having said that there are several places along the London end of my commute where Camden Council have installed calming similar to that you mention ie bringing the carriageway up to the level of the pavement. These are, although not given the full zebra treatment, quite clearly intended to be crossing points.
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I think you mean an "informal crossing point"?? Like this...
www.idgo.ac.uk/Images/informal_crossing.jpg
If so she might as well pay up and drive on a bit further next time.
BTW my first search for a raised crossing point came up with this...
www.digital-photo.com.au/gallery/d/6249-6/Readhead-Girl-on-pedestrian-crossing-IMG_20070309_7294.jpg
... which was very instructional :-)
Of course you could always post a link to the location on Google streetview and we can be judge and jury!
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...
www.digital-photo.com.au/gallery/d/6249-6/Readhead-Girl-on-pedestrian-
crossing-IMG_20070309_7294.jpg
...
I'm getting a 403 forbidden message - is the pic very naughty?
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No... I wouldn't do that to the forum. If you Google redhead on a pedestrian crossing it is result no 1.
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Very nice. But I didn't notice a pedestrian crossing.
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www.idgo.ac.uk/Images/informal_crossing.jpg
this is clearly a crossing in that the road has been narrowed for it, you can see there is parking before and after it it is at a junction leading to a parade of shops, and the paving stone colour is different to mark it out.
the parking offence written on Mrs Gs ticket is not that she parked on a crossing, it is that she parked adjacent to a dropped footway, but a raised road is not a dropped footway is it?
Guy
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"These are, although not given the full zebra treatment, quite clearly intended to be crossing points."
In what way are they clearly intended to be crossing point, any painted markings? signs for pedestrians? signs for drivers?
The one Mrs G parked on is outside our childrens school where she was helping in the school library. These traffic calming measures are quite new, within 1 year and Mrs G has been visiting this school for 15 years and knows where to park and where not, she has never had a ticket at the school before.
Indeed the school has problems with local residents complaining and often issues letters reminding parents exactly where they can park and not, yet the school secretary has NEVER heard of anyone being ticketed for parking there before.
Guy
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Speed tables have become a lot more common recently around where I live.
People park on them, other restrictions excepted.
I probably would but would never knowingly park in front of bobbly tactile paving wherever it was.
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Edit.
Engage brain before operating mouth!
Last edited by: bathtub tom {p} on Sat 12 Jun 10 at 16:49
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Look if they are flat top strips raised to the level of the pavement, they were not built for toads to cross the road. Its failry clear what they are for, and is probably, at the least, inconsiderate to park on them.
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>>..the pavement at that point has "bobbles" which I think are sometimes used to help the blind find a crossing?>>
That's your clue.
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All points taken and well received, I too think Mrs G should not have parked there, but have a look at these pics I just took.
picasaweb.google.co.uk/guygampell/Crossing?feat=directlink
These are the two "speed tables" outside the school, please read the captions clearly, and remember they were built at same time as part of same traffic calming scheme
Site A:
Road is not Narrowed
Pavement is NOT dropped
Single Yellow on one side, Double Yellow on other,
Single Yellow has parking permissable as indicated by yellow sign 10 paces away
Site B:
100 yds away
Road is narrowed
Pavement is dropped
Double Yellow is painted on both sides
Clearly Site B is a crossing, clearly y ou canot park there, this is re-enforced in numerous ways, double yellow being the most obvious, but even without the double yellow, the road narrowing and pavement dropping is clear
Site A, to be fair to Mrs G is NOT so clear cut. One side is Double Yelllow one side is Single Yellow, informing driver that the two sides have different status. The road is NOT narrowed, and the pavement is NOT dropped, meaning it is not as clearly marked as a crossing. Plus the single yellow is singed as having parking permitted when she was there.
Apologies for earlier info that no yellow lines were there, but in the context they actually work in mrs Gs favour I believe indicating that where she parked has different status to other side, and both sides of Site B
Guy
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Sorry, site A really is clear cut. The two posts and the bobbled pavement is a clear sign, even to a driver, that this is not a normal place to park.
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Finally for now:
Our local county council has this on their website, detailing all the parking offences that can be ticketed.
www.stalbans.gov.uk/Images/parking_enforcement_guidelines_tcm15-2437.pdf
Doesn't make any mention of the offence apparently caused by Mrs G
GUY
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they should extend code 99 to cover the crossing thing.
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Sorry, I did mean finally, but then i found this:
www.devon.gov.uk/index/transport/parking/parkingenforcement.htm
On 1st June 2009 Devon County Council and its District Partners, along with all other Civil Parking Enforcement Areas outside London, were granted additional powers to enforce double parking , and parking at dropped kerbs at crossing points, cycle lanes and driveways. Motorists who commit these offences will be liable for a £70 Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) from 1 January 2010..
That is clearly the offence the parking warden had in mind in ticketing mrs g.
but
1) this is clearly a new restrcition introduced in Jan 2010
2) Devon & Cornwall which is NOT where we live, notified the public on their web-site
3) I have trawled our local council web-site and found no such notification
So, if new regulations are introduced, and the public not notified, can she be blamed? and given the ambiguous nature of the road markings described above, do the contributors still think she hasn't leg to stand on
Guy
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Guy, I would say that in the first photo there is a slight lowering of the kerb. Looks like its only an inch or so but maybe this was enough.
Biggles
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>> Anyway, no yellow lines, single or double,
picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/MKyg97zibDGmeC2uh2RkHA shows yellow lines
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>> raised to level with pavement where she parked, the pavement is not lowered, and is
picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/d1RaO5TJowrqkKqjlITRTw
picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/d1RaO5TJowrqkKqjlITRTw
show that kerb is lowered.
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Site A:
You're surprised at getting a parking ticket for parking across/adjacent/ between the posts with bobbling pavement indicators? Eh?
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I agree with you sentiment Kensitas, but where does it state you can be penalised for doing so?
The highway code rule 10 refers to tactile paving having raised studs at crossing points with a dropped kerb. Does a raised roadway count as a dropped kerb?
www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070108
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The contravention codes are national but the St Albans list appears incomplete/out of date. Code for a dropped kerb contavention is 27, there is a full list on the PATROL website www.patrol-uk.info/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=23&pageID=42
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The definition of a dropped footway can be fornd in section 86 of the Traffic Management Act 2004: -
In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway
adjacent to a footway, cycle track or verge where—
(a) the footway, cycle track or verge has been lowered to meet the level of
the carriageway for the purpose of—
(i) assisting pedestrians crossing the carriageway,
(ii) assisting cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, or
(iii) assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the
footway, cycle track or verge; or
(b) the carriageway has, for a purpose within paragraph (a)(i) to (iii), been
raised to meet the level of the footway, cycle track or verge.
Banged to rights I think!!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 14 Jun 10 at 10:48
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I had a similar complaint in RB Ken & Chelsea recently where a narrow dropped kerb had a single yellow line painted next to it, and at the time of parking, no restrictions applied to parking there. I got a ticket. I challenged it (with the council) but lost. I couldn't see anything in the Road Traffic Regs about it but couldn't be bothered to take it further.
I agree with XJSguy, that the parking restrictions should be made clearer. Like a bit of double yellow that everyone understands.
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>> The highway code rule 10 refers to tactile paving having raised studs at crossing points
>> with a dropped kerb. Does a raised roadway count as a dropped kerb?
>>
In XJSguy's pictures for site A, you will see that the kerb is in fact dropped slightly, while at the same time the road has been raised slightly. As already pointed out by
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=1624&m=29232&v=e
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=1624&m=29244&v=e
In any case, see bromptonaut's post
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=1624&m=29506&v=e
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Until I read Bromptonaut's post, I sided with OP, but shared Zero's indignation.
I am, though, thoroughly bemused by the yellow line signage. Why the need for any yellow lines at all???
I loathe these "informal crossings". A suicide trap for unwary pedestrians, and murder trap for unwary drivers.
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When is a dropped footway not - Zero
