Hello, and apologies if this is a bit off topic for this forum.
I am driving a UK van (eg Vauxhall Vivaro/Ford Transit SWB) on hire from Europcar from London to Berlin and back again. This is the first time I have driven in Europe, let alone the first time I have taken a left hand drive vehicle to the mainland. So I am aware that I am jumping in at the deep end!
I wondered if anyone here has tips or suggestions about driving on the mainland in general, or about my trip specifically (France-Belgium-Netherlands-Germany)?
I have read all the usual advice from RAC/AA/.gov about speed limits and compulsory docs/kit but nothing compares to hearing from fellow experienced drivers.
Thanks in advance for any help.
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>>the first time I have taken a left hand drive vehicle
How did you manage to acquire LHD van in this country?
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>> How did you manage to acquire LHD van in this country?
billyphatu (hi, man, by the way) may well mean driving a RHD vehicle on the mainland, or continent as it is often called. A mere typo.
Advice: it isn't that difficult. It can even help you drive closer to road verges. Of course there are times when extra caution is needed.
Don't get tired and drive on the wrong side of the road by mistake. I've done it.
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If you are taking it before the end of March then it will require winter tyres. The fine imposed on commercial vehicles can be much more than that of cars.
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Just do it! .. we've all been there at one time or another and it's surprising how quickly y'all adapt.
Keep em peeled though at road junctions and roundabouts, and don't do what I once did in Tenerife .. did a U-turn then drove on the wrong side of the road around a bend 'til a local came toward me head-on in his Fiat 124!
:}
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To help keep to the right when driving and avoid roundabout / U-turn errors remember this mantra: "my place is in the gutter".
Works well for me.
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Driving a RHD van will be easier because you're used to the layout of the controls. The higher driving position will help too.
Take DE's good advice, and pay particular attention at junctions on dual carriageways and multi-lane urban roads that you are turning into the right hand side of the central median. Stick to the gutter, and the slow lane, and you'll be fine.
I've found it helps my brain switch unit 'France mode' if I move over to the right hand side as soon as possible as I drive off the ferry ramp when I arrive in Roscoff (my usual port).
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>> Take DE's good advice, and pay particular attention at junctions on dual carriageways and multi-lane
>> urban roads that you are turning into the right hand side of the central median.
>> Stick to the gutter, and the slow lane, and you'll be fine.
>>
All good advice, but since it's a van, one thing that is critical is to approach junctions at the correct angle. If you are turning right at a t-junction (from the leg of the T), for example, you need to come to the junction almost straight on, to give you visibility of oncoming traffic on your (right hand) side of the road because your viewing angle will be severely restricted. It's not always easy to get that visibility even in a car. I sometimes have problems, and I live in Austria driving a UK RHD estate car!
I first went to France in my car when I was 22, and found it instinctive after a very short while. But take special care when you've stopped for fuel, overnight stops etc, it's too easy to be in (UK) autopilot mode.
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Probably driven about 50k miles in LHD territory over last 20yrs, mostly in France but also Switzerland, Germany and Spain. It's actually quite intuitive particularly in France where the roadsigns pretty well replicate ours. As others say the danger point is driving away from stops on relatively quiet roads where left running auto pilot kicks in. My Father crashed his Hillman Hunter that way near Limoges in 1973. The Pug 404 he hit came off much better!
My own near misses have been a Swiss going the wrong way round a roundabout and a Dutchman who was going wrong way round a one way system in Besse en Chandesse.
There's relatively little priorite a droit left outside of towns and those taking it are much more cautious than they were 40yrs ago. Watch out for it in towns and villages though.
Motorways are a cinch, the risks are those others point out at junctions, roundabouts and on single carriageway N and D roads. A lot of French T-junctions and X roads are laid out in ways not used in UK, for example with split entry routes joining a side road from a main road. It's pretty clear how they work provided you look carefully and have scrubbed off excess speed well before the turn.
As Mike H says the limited visibility in a van is a handicap you'll need to adapt for. Of you're travelling with a companion then, provided you trust their observation and judgement of speed get them to help. Another 'gotcha' is modern windscreen pillars wide enough to lose a converging vehicle behind. Make sure you compensate for anything lurking there, particularly the left pillar approaching roundabouts.
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>> As others say the danger point is driving away from stops
>> on relatively quiet roads where left running auto pilot kicks in.
Good advice. Here (Scotland) we have direction arrows painted on the roads at common tourist stops, also after junctions in areas that tourists are often found and may have light traffic levels.
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>> >> As others say the danger point is driving away from stops
>> >> on relatively quiet roads where left running auto pilot kicks in.
>>
>> Good advice.
>>
No, excellent advice. That is the most dangerous bit about driving in Europe, I have found. Once you are in traffic, it all pretty much flows.
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>> But take special care when you've stopped for fuel,
>> overnight stops etc, it's too easy to be in (UK) autopilot mode.
Yes.
I had driven in France a dozen times before I made a near-fatal error. I stopped for fuel on the "wrong" side of the road, then just turned left out of the station onto the left side of the road.
Easily done. I now think about exactly how I will resume my journey as I stop, it seems to help avoid autopilot. I also pick fuel stops on the right if I can, and similarly avoid parking on the wrong side of the road.
At least you aren't starting with Italy.
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Make absolutely sure that the hire company know you're taking it out the country.
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The worse thing about driving with a RHD in Europe if you don't have a passenger is Toll Booths.
The French drivers queuing behind you just love the extra delay when you get to the front of the queue and have to get out and walk round the car to put the money/card in.
Consider automatic toll payment.
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>> Consider automatic toll payment.
Bip and Go - www.saneftolling.co.uk/
We bought one last year. Much easier than faffing about with cards/coins even if you do have a passenger.
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>> Bip and Go - www.saneftolling.co.uk/
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>> We bought one last year. Much easier than faffing about with cards/coins even if you
>> do have a passenger.
Brompton, that's amazing. €16 per annum for a bipper(?!). And only €6 if you don't actually go to France at all. Much, much cheaper than they used to be.
Thank you for that, might get one 'just in case'.
As for driving on the continent, it really is straightforward and you'll pick it up in moments. I suggest going onto Google streetview and practising. Particularly roundabouts that take a bit of getting used to.
Always park on the RHS, and then you're less likely to make a mistake when moving off.
One snowy morning a few years ago, I set off from my hotel down a country road. A couple of miles later, I wondered why there was a car heading directly at me, flashing its lights. I still recall with horror my sudden realisation that I was on the wrong side of the road. It makes me feel quite sick even now. And it has really helped me to focus on getting it right subsequently.
As an aside, a LHD vehicle is much easier, as you're already doing something 'weird' and it makes driving on the wrong side considerably more instinctive. (Beware going to the wrong side of your own car when you come back home...)
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>>I suggest going onto Google streetview and practising.
Great idea, thanks!
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He is going to Berlin he will not go through any toll booths either in France ,Belgium ,Nederland nor Germany .
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A guy I know cycled to Berlin from London last summer. Sounded like quite a long way but he took a week or so to do it. Flat enough route thankfully. Got the train home though. Couldn't face the ride back.
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>> Make absolutely sure that the hire company know you're taking it out the country.
>>
Yep, you will need a VE103B certificate from the hire/lease company in lieu of the registration document. I had to do the same when I took the 320d to Italy a couple of years back.
The lease company charged me something trivial like £15 and the form is valid for 12 months.
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Thanks for all the advice. Really useful and assuring. To be honest I was nervous the first time I drove in North America but mastered it after a few hours - I know Europe is harder but hoping for the same quick adjustment. Yes I meant to say RHD on right hand side.
I don't think I encounter any tolls on my route from Dunkirk-Berlin but if I do I will just shimmy along the cab - no getting out in this weather!
Going solo on the outbound journey so a little worried about viewing angles, but I will just take my time. Of course I won't have a rear view mirror as well, but I am well used to driving vans so hopefully this won't be a problem.
Is it worth getting some kind of wing mirror extension for my passenger side?
I read that there are restrictions on headlight beams on RHD vehicles and that I should apply special filters to alter them. Is this true? Or can I just use the headlight angle adjustment on the vehicle?
Another thing I am nervous about (but will probably adjust to quickly) is if I need to overtake on the auto-bahn (I want to travel quickly on these roads).
Has anyone here done this particular journey before and if so any suggestions for good service stations or rest places?
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Strictly speaking, I think you should have authorisation from the owner/hirer.
You may be asked for this at the immigration stop before you get on the ferry/tunnel.
You won't need to stop at any other borders.
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"To be honest I was nervous the first time I drove in North America but mastered it after a few hours - I know Europe is harder but hoping for the same quick adjustment."
To be honest if you have driven in USA or Canada you won't have any problem at all in Europe.
Doesn't feel anyway as different or alien as the US does. Same signs, same trucks, same style of driving , roundabouts not traffic lights , no four way junctions and you can get served proper food without forever being asked "how you folks doing? :-)
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Unless the Astra has means to adjust the dip (as opposed to the level adjuster) you should buy deflectors. Even if you don't intend to drive at night you still need to adapt them in case of low daylight visibility and for tunnels on the M/way.
Halfords do them for around £8 a set and come with comprehensive model specific instructions. They're (very!) self adhesive and will last the duration of your trip. We usually put ours on in the ferry assembly area or on board the Shuttle reversing the process on return. Worth taking a bit of meths to get the gummy adhesive residue off the lights after removal.
Overtaking on French Autoroutes and speed limited Autobahn in Germany is pretty easy. The potential trap is any blindspot in your left rear quarter. In a car you compensate by doing a careful 'lifesaver' through side windows. In a van you'll need to observe very carefully and set your mirrors so as to minimise any blindspots.
Never driven on a derestricted Autobahn. Those who have point out that a Porsche going at warp factor 6 goes from a dot in mirror to passing in a blink.
As for stops I ban recommend BB Hotels www.hotel-bb.com/en/home.htm for an overnight stop. There are plenty in both France and Germany. If you're stopping near Dunkerque I'd particularly commend their place at Dunkerque Gare. Unlike many of their sites it's in the town and there's and excellent Flemish Estaminet round the corner. I cannot remember the name now but it's advertised in the hotel and the manager will give directions.
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I want to travel quickly on these roads.
Don't know the situation in Germany but plenty here forget that vans are subject to lower speed limits than cars. Worth checking before you go.
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I skim read the posts so sorry if it's already been mentioned on here...
Remember to remove any reference to speed camera locations on your SatNav.
I beleive its illegal in France to have the locations programmed in.
Last edited by: TheManWithNoName on Tue 14 Jan 14 at 12:59
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>> Remember to remove any reference to speed camera locations on your SatNav.
>> I beleive its illegal in France to have the locations programmed in.
Yet my Inforad speed camera detector can be used in France (according to the manufacturer)
www.inforad.net/supp_faq_en.php?pn=ia4&lang=en
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Very generally speaking, I prefer driving in most other European countries to doing so here. On the whole, I find it much less stressful.
And the roadside food is better.
Enjoy your trip !
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I find it very easy to switch the side of the road I drive on, *IF* I am driving the correct "handed" car for those roads.
When driving the wrong-handed car I find it very easy to slip up; e.g. when leaving a petrol station, car park, one-way road, drive way or any simple manouver where concentration is not the highest.
As Dulwich said above, find a reminder that works for you. Something dead simple that you can resort to in a moment of confusion. Mine is "Steering wheel against the kerb". It doesn't matter what, just something so that when you're turning left across a road into another at a complex junction you have something to get you through any doubts or confusion.
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I'm pretty rubbish at lots of things but switching from RHD to LHD or left side driving to right side driving no matter which side of the vehicle the steering wheel is attached to has never troubled me.
Having said that, I think I probably do zone in quite a lot when driving. For example, I read and hear of people saying they have nearly fallen asleep at the wheel on long journeys but I can truthfully say despite many long days of driving I've never felt that sensation.
Immediately after getting out of the car on such an occasion I've felt able to sleep on a clothes line but never even slightly while actually driving.
I do like driving though, which must help I suppose ! Possibly that compensates, a bit anyway, for any lack of skill.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Tue 14 Jan 14 at 14:00
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My only advice for overtaking on Autobahns or in fact any faster road is just be continually aware of what's around you even when you appear on your own. For overtaking, indicate well in advance, lean forward to see more in your door mirror and gradually move out if clear. This gives everyone time to react to your movements.
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Don't waste your money in Halfords or on the ferry for headlight adaptors. eBay is littered with sellers knocking out Eurolites (good brand) for about 3 quid.
PS I'm a tight wad these days, I try and re-use mine over and over. When the "stick" runs out I hold them on with a 3 inch x 3 inch square of clear sticky plastic. With care I manage maybe 6 or 7 Euro trips before losing one. Then, I cut of a circle of tin foil in lieu of the adaptor. Works well enough until I replenish supplies.
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>> Don't waste your money in Halfords or on the ferry for headlight adaptors. eBay is
>> littered with sellers knocking out Eurolites (good brand) for about 3 quid.
I thought these beam deflectors couldn't be used on acrylic headlight lenses? Something to do with the heat of the bulb warming up the glue and subsequently melting into the acrylic surface.
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>> I thought these beam deflectors couldn't be used on acrylic headlight lenses? Something to do
>> with the heat of the bulb warming up the glue and subsequently melting into the
>> acrylic surface.
Seem to remember reading something like that several years ago. OTOH I suspect the lenses on our 05 Berlingo are not glass and have never had a problem in pushing a dozen foreign trips.
Neither was there any problem with the new, 63, model when Mrs B and I took it over in December. Oddly though, although the Halfords branded Eurolites did not include instructions for the post 2008 Pug Partner which is identical to my car other than badges/trim.
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>> I thought these beam deflectors couldn't be used on acrylic headlight lenses? Something to do
>> with the heat of the bulb warming up the glue and subsequently melting into the
>> acrylic surface.
>>
Never had a problem, yes the adhesive leaves a bit of sticky gloop but that's easily removed with a solvent without damaging the acrylic lenses.
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>>For example, I read and hear of people saying they have nearly fallen asleep at the wheel
>>on long journeys but I can truthfully say despite many long days of driving I've never felt
>>that sensation.
Gosh. Many's the journey I've taken where I've had to pull over for 15 minutes' snooze.
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I have nodded. Apparently that is momentarily falling asleep. It was a long time ago after a long drive on the other side of the channel, and a sleepless ferry crossing.
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It's happened to me once or twice over the years. It's very frightening, but you always know well in advance when you are asking for trouble. I take it as a severe warning and pull in for rest and refreshment as soon as possible.
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Guess we're all different but for me, while I'm behind the wheel with the engine on, I never seem to feel all that tired. Conversely, often within 5 minutes of getting out of the car after a long run, I can be totally sparked out on the sofa. It's like I've switched myself off with the engine !
I remember once driving for about 5 hours to visit a very large, very important customer's head office. Their exceptionally posh, busy and plush reception area includes big comfy squidgy leather sofas. Well, the person I'd come to visit was delayed by 15 minutes or so and, well, you're ahead of me aren't you? There is now an embarrassing photo of me behind the reception desk...
On the other hand, if I'm being driven, provided the driver isn't too much of a numpty, I'll fall asleep at the drop of a hat as a passenger.
In fact on anything which moves and I'm not driving I'll sleep easily, aeroplanes, trains etc are major Z opportunities as far as I'm concerned.
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I'm a very alert driver and never feel sleepy. I am always looking at what's around me, ensuring I'm reading the road ahead, ensuring my lane discipline is good and pre-empting others movements. Damn I'm good ;D
I drove from Marlow in Buckinghamshire to catch a 6.30am plane from Luton, flew up to Aberdeen, hired an MPV, drove up to Buckley to collect a few items, then onto Inverness then drove straight back to Marlow getting back around 10pm. Never once felt tired, the only problem was my left shoulder aching. It was only when I returned the hire MPV to Luton that I noticed it had a drop down armrest I could have used!
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I've always been able to drive further and for longer than most people without losing concentration, and I still can although of course age curbs one a bit. But in the past I often stretched a point, went too long without sleep, got sprauncy about my own abilities, never a good thing. Uppers - amphetamine pills - are very good for stretching those abilities, but when that leads to overstretching there are all sorts of hallucination possibilities crowding in on you. Gets risky then.
Unless you are very stupid or driven in some way you usually stop doing that before it's too late.
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>> I'm a very alert driver and never feel sleepy.
I remember once, back in the early 90s, getting up at 5:00am, driving from Surrey to Kegworth for an 8:00am start, working to 1:00am the next morning and driving home. Around the bottom of the M1, I have to admit I had to stick my head out of the window to keep awake.
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That Casey Jones used to drive like that.
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I think its impossible to fall asleep driving a steam train.
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See for me you could put me in the plushiest armchair on a train, car or plane and I can't drop off to sleep regardless of how tired I am. Once I get laid down I can drop off anywhere though. Many a time I've slept on the concrete floor of a building, outside on the gravel, on a cargo aircraft floor whilst at work or travelling. On a flight once with no one else on my row I slept on the floor between the two rows of seats.
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Usually I have a Rolls Royce engine for driving stamina... not so much tiredness that affects me as back/bum ache. However I have got a 11month old who is keeping me up at night - going to kip at my mum's the night before I set out!
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See for me you could put me in the plushiest armchair......
That might have hit the nail on the head for me. I can't sleep in any position other than lying down. I'm also very good in my own company which I think helps. If you are not so and need interaction with another then perhaps when solo driving you're more likely to nod off.
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Lots of good advice above.
The only two "wrong side of the road" mistakes I've made (so far!!) were when I pulled into petrol stations on "the wrong side" of the road and then pulled out to drive on the left! Luckily the MB (on both occasions) coming towards me was a fair way away and I realised my mistake. Since then, I have made it a rule to never cross over the road for any facility - fuel, food or loo - always pull in on the right!
Another point. My TomTom satnav has a facility to warn me which side of road to drive on after a halt- several warning beeps and a flashing sign saying "drive on the right!" Check if yours has the same.
Otherwise, just stay alert, don't drive tired and take your time!
Have fun!
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Yup - the wrong side mistakes are always when you don't have visual clues. Road signs, give way markers, and traffic. And its always when you have been driving for a few hours.
My mistakes are always when coming home. A day or two after arriving home I have caught myself driving on the wrong side - its happened at least three times
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 14 Jan 14 at 18:47
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Also for driving on motorways, don't expect courtesy to let you pull out, a flash of headlights can mean they intend to come through not the other way round and expect some tailgating.
Last edited by: Enoughalready on Tue 14 Jan 14 at 19:53
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>>>My mistakes are always when coming home. A day or two after arriving home I have caught myself driving on the wrong side - its happened at least three times <<<
snap! I have made more mistakes in the UK than I have when abroad. Supermarket car parks are a favorite!
Many years ago driving late at night when tired a car approached in a narrow country lane. It had yellow headlights, and my first reaction was to pull hard right! Embarassing, but at least I did not hit it
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Wot they all say
Plus
Slip roads are often much shorter and tightly curved than we are used to - might be worth remembering if that van of yours is well loaded
Some sort of towing type mirror extension might well be useful and as you have no internal rear view, if you're in an overtaking lane, be aware of drivers who are so close behind you can't see them in your door mirrors
Check what difference being in a van makes to the speed limit - almost certainly you will never be 'unrestricted'
Have a safe trip
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>> Plus
>> Slip roads are often much shorter and tightly curved than we are used to -
>> might be worth remembering if that van of yours is well loaded
>>
Some are very tightly curved but usually have a speed limit on them, these sometimes feel too low in a car but in a van I would suggest complying with them.
Slip roads can also be very close together.
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Thanks for all this advice. I am now well set-up for my trip in a couple of weeks. One question though, I intend to drive back from Berlin to Dunkirk in 10hours including a short break for lunch. Online route planners give me conflicting advice about journey time, some say 8 hours some say 11 hours. Has anyone the prior experience of drivng this route or similar, to tell me better?? (Departure time will be 0600-0700).
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Depends totally on traffic and roadworks on a regular basis I travel from Dresden to Dunkirk overnight it can take between 9 and 13 hours.Do not forget your winter tyres in Germany.
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Thanks. I am worried about the snow tyres thing as this is just a UK hire van - I don't think they swap the tyres out at all. Is this something to be very worried about or will I get away with normal all-round ones?
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Billy, the legal requirement is to have M+S marked tyres if you are driving on black ice, snow, slush or frost covered roads. If the van does not have the right tyres on, the simplest thing to do is park up until the roads have been cleared if any of these conditions happen.
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The legal requirement is a snowflake symbol not a spurious m&s written on the sidewall, a spot check by different agencies that abound in Germany especially on motorway service areas take place quite often anything below 6 degrees then they can fine you and refuse you permission to go any further till it gets warmer. I live in Germany have never been checked yet but as this is a revenue stream it does happen quite often,winter tyres are not just for snow.
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Collos, that is not correct. Living in Germany, you should know the laws. Try reading (2)(3a) StVO.
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I do I have ,as you obliviously do not know Germany is made up of 13 self governing states the statute you state is a central government law but can be over ridden by any of the independent states.
The official statute in Germany for a winter or all season tyre is a snowflake symbol and a mountain peak.
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from the AA site:
"The rules in Germany changed at the end of 2010 - regulations now require all passenger cars and motorbikes including vehicles from foreign countries to be fitted with winter tyres or all season tyres on all axles when conditions are wintery.
If your vehicle becomes stuck during the winter months because the tyres are unsuitable you will be liable to an on the spot fine in Germany. If the vehicle causes an obstruction and aggravation to other traffic, the fine may be doubled. You may also be prevented from continuing your journey."
So its not actually illegal to drive in Germany without winter/all season tyres. Just don't get stuck in the snow!
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It is actually illegal. My post above was a summary of the relevant part of the German law StVO. In practice, you will only get caught if you get stuck.
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Thanks CG.
The problem with the law is being able to predict the weather in advance - in March it can either be edging towards 30° plus or be in permafrost at -10°. Currently, Berlin is having a cold spell.
Another issue which the OP may have to deal with is the requirement for cars within the central area to have the right sticker to enter the low emission zone without being fined. See here:
www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/umwelt/luftqualitaet/en/luftreinhalteplan/umweltzone_allgemeines.shtml
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Ok, thanks again for the tips and warnings. Who'd have thought this would be such a tricky thing to do, but no turning back now.
The van will be a Transit SWB. I am in conversation with Hertz about putting 'winter' tyres on a van for me, which they have so far refused to do, because they only do it for long term corporate customers. Very frustrating because I went down to my local yard and they had a SWB with appropriate tyres on, sitting right there, but Joe Bloggs is not allowed to hire... Anyway, waiting on a call from their van HQ to see whether they will or won't help me out. They have otherwise been far superior in their customer service compared to others.
I say 'winter' tyres because I doubt they will even have the correct specification of tyre (M+S plus snowflake) but anything is better than nothing. Whether they do or don't give me the right tyres, I am going anyway, will take it easy and stop if conditions are bad. Worst case I pull into a local garage en route and whip some new tyres on. Hertz haven't said that insurance will be void, have rented to me knowing I am going to Germany, and their small print doesn't point towards me in any way... so I am covered in that respect.
One other thing I was wondering about was snow chains, which I am meant to carry with me. I was looking at those fabric snow 'socks' type things: www.amazon.co.uk/Go-Anti-Skid-Snow-Fit/dp/B0049NKA7W/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1390820171&sr=8-6&keywords=snow+chains and wonder if they are any good, and how fast one can travel with these on?
As for the low emissions zone thing, I am going to risk it, bearing in mind I will be in and out of Berlin in less than 20 hours.
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Have they issued you with a VE103 certificate?
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Yes, they provide the appropriate documentation.
However I am feeling somewhat sick now - Hertz definitely won't swap out the tyres except for an extortionate fee, and even then can't seem to guarantee the specifications of the tyre... helpful. Also I just re-read the T&Cs and indeed insurance would be void if I don't have the right equipment.
So I am up the creek at the moment. I haven't found another company who would put the right tyres on. So looking at either swapping the tyres out just inside Germany or possibly driving to the nearest rental firm to the German border and doing a separate hire in Germany, swapping contents of the van twice... what a fool I am!
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Buy four appropriate tyres & steel wheels from EBay or similar?
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I bought four tyres which are arriving tomorrow. Cheapest I could find in the time frame required (I leave on Weds!) was £50 a pop. I will start my journey by having them fitted at a local tyre place for somewhere in the region of £10 a wheel, I hope. On return we will whip them off and sell them on eBay or something.
It's a kick in the balls price wise, especially because I know that lots of people do it on normal tyres and get away with it - but at least we will be legal and safe.
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Thanks for the help and tips on my trip. It ended up being a very smooth and satisfying drive - no problems at all, and having the right tyres meant I had no worries. It was quite snowy in Berlin. On the way back I got from Berlin to Dunkirk in about 7.5 hours including a pit stop, only to be denied an earlier ferry and then get stuck for two hours on a broken down one!
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" I got from Berlin to Dunkirk in about 7.5 hours "
Only a bit quicker than the German Army in 1940 - and they had better weather.
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Vauxhall - Driving UK van in Europe - bathtub tom
