Motoring Discussion > Random Breath Tests.	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: R.P.	Replies: 57

Sat 7 Dec 13 10:25   Random Breath Tests. - R.P.

Three people have been stopped at road checks on the way to work this week. They were all requested to provide breath tests. Whilst I appreciate why they do it - a little part of me feels that it's wrong (and ultimately a waste of resources) - the figures will be published in the new year and will show in our area that a thousand or more breath tests administered and low single or double figures will have been positive. Would it be better to target drivers intelligently than casting a huge drag-net - the current policy seems to be alienating their natural supporters. For instance my boss (66 years old driving a Volvo) was bemused to be repeatedly addressed as "Matey" by a scruffy little herbert young enough to be his son... Reply to this message | Report message       3

Sat 7 Dec 13 10:47   Random Breath Tests. - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> For instance my boss (66 years old driving a Volvo) was bemused to be repeatedly >> addressed as "Matey" by a scruffy little herbert young enough to be his son... >> A reality police programme a couple of years back following a vice squad targeting punters in the midlands had several of the police officers addressing suspects as "Chap". Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 10:49   Random Breath Tests. - R.P.

Dreadful isn't it...? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 10:52   Random Breath Tests. - CGNorwich

>> Dreadful isn't it...? >> Certainly is squire. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 10:59   Random Breath Tests. - Bromptonaut

>> A reality police programme a couple of years back following a vice squad targeting punters >> in the midlands had several of the police officers addressing suspects as "Chap". Fairly common mode of address in Northampton. Our postie and manager of the fast fit we go to for tyres etc have it as their default mode. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 11:02   Random Breath Tests. - Robin O'Reliant

When I worked in the Dagenham area "Knobhead" was a common form of address, but I wouldn't have expected it from a copper... Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 11:04   Random Breath Tests. - R.P.

Chief or the Welsh version of the C word is very common in the town I have now laid my hat. There is a saying there....."Caernarfon, where **** is your worst enemy or your best friend". Anyway what about the random breath test thing. I have to add - the Welsh version sounds a lot less harsh than the Anglo Saxon version. Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 7 Dec 13 at 11:16 Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 11:40   Random Breath Tests. - Robin O'Reliant

They make a big thing of breath testing over the Christmas period with local campaigns and media publicity galore, but apparently the summer is the time when the highest number of DDs are on the road. The Christmas crackdown always seems to me like a bit of posturing. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sat 7 Dec 13 12:42   Random Breath Tests. - Dog

Eh, Summer is a relatively long period whereas a lot of driving drunk takes place o'er a relatively short period at Christmas. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 13:21   Random Breath Tests. - No FM2R

>>but apparently the summer is the time when the highest number of DDs are on the road. Perhaps that's because the visible campaign at Christmas has an impact and keeps a lot off the road. Should we have a similar campaign in the summer? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 13:26   Random Breath Tests. - BobbyG

Always amazes me that police are supposed to prevent crime. I have watched various of these tv police programs whereby they have been tipped off about someone in a pub who is going to be driving. So the spend time to sit and wait to catch them rather than just going into said pub and announcing they will be outside watching for any drink drivers! But of course that wouldn't get their stats up Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 13:29   Random Breath Tests. - No FM2R

And someone would complain to the Daily Mail that they were innocent, having a drink with the wife, who was traumatized by the police "raid" and shouldn't the police be out catching real criminals anyway rather than hassling good honest folk in the pub after a hard week at the mill and is nowhere sacred anymore and what's happened to British values and a peaceful pint. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 13:51   Random Breath Tests. - Dog

>> So the spend time to sit and wait to catch them rather than just going into said pub and announcing they will be outside watching for any drink drivers! That policy wouldn't dissuade an habitual dd from committing said crime again in the future, whereas taking away the perps licence to drive for a year or two would, in most cases. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 13:47   Random Breath Tests. - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> Perhaps that's because the visible campaign at Christmas has an impact and keeps a lot >> off the road. >> >> Should we have a similar campaign in the summer? >> I would think the summer drink drivers are of the habitual variety and many of the Xmas ones are people who've overdone it at last nights office do and don't realise how long it takes the alcohol to leave the system. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Sat 7 Dec 13 14:42   Random Breath Tests. - No FM2R

Personally I'm far more tempted by and susceptible to over indulgence on a sunny saturday afternoon than I am on a winter's night. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 14:56   Random Breath Tests. - Armel Coussine

I am used to taking an insouciant line on drink driving, because I could still drive well and safely, without undue euphoria or stupid miscalculations, and with a measure of cunning old urban-driver restraint, when somewhat over the permitted limit. However age tarnishes many things, including that one. I don't see quite as well, I am more faffing and indecisive, more easily dazzled by approaching headlights, and slightly more nervous and jumpy. I don't want to exaggerate here: I'm still OK, just not as good as I used to be. So these days I am more cautious about the amount I drink before driving. Tend to stay below the limit while still out and about. It makes me feel a bit pathetic but better safe than sorry. If I live long enough to become incapable of driving properly even when sober, I will certainly notice the fact. Whether I will be able to admit it to myself or anyone else remains to be seen. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 18:06   Random Breath Tests. - Dutchie

I was very insecure after my operation,not driven for a while my reactions where slow and indecisive. I'm fine now still tend to drive to fast sometimes,usually my wife or daughter will tell me off. I'm a good boy now.Don't know about random breath test,I like any alcoholic drink,no drink and driving if I can help it. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 01:54   Random Breath Tests. - Armel Coussine

>> I'm a good boy now.Don't know about random breath test,I like any alcoholic drink,no drink and driving if I can help it. Got a lift from a charming Dutch couple in 1960 or 61 who took me and my then gf from Narbonne across the Spanish border at La Junquera and dropped us I think in Gerona. They were about 30, eight or ten years older than us, but drove their louvred-tail Renault 750 almost flat at about 55mph and shared with us the two-litre bottle of pink wine they had between them, both taking frequent swigs. Nederlanders were cool even then Dutchman. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 01:34   Random Breath Tests. - Armel Coussine

>> If I live long enough to become incapable of driving properly even when sober Just seen a post from the Sheikh in another thread saying once again that he hates driving and therefore can 'put up with' the dreary motorway scenery he watches from long-distance coaches. Yet he is partially aware of what he is missing, as he says in the same post. Anyway the thought came to me: I'm getting on a bit but I'm not as elderly as Rattle... What an eccentric fellow the Sheikh is. Drinks beer on a heroic scale but doesn't dare go more than 80 miles in his new, economical motor... Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 18:27   Random Breath Tests. - Cliff Pope

>>than I am on a winter's night. >> I'm struggling with a half-composed, or remembered, rhyme, on the lines of: In days of old when nights were cold And young bloods drove convertibles. They dropped the top ........... di dah di dah So drink was undetectable. AC is good at this doggerel. I always used to imagine that driving with the hood down in freezing weather was a good way of instantly sobering up, but I suspect not. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 14:57   Random Breath Tests. - Bromptonaut

>> I would think the summer drink drivers are of the habitual variety and many of >> the Xmas ones are people who've overdone it at last nights office do and don't >> realise how long it takes the alcohol to leave the system. That's a good point. If they were stop a selection of those entering a commuter rail station in next 10 days they'd get a better hit rate than at 10pm. There's almost certainly been times they'd have got me using that MO. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 7 Dec 13 22:46   Random Breath Tests. - Zero

Is random breath testing legal in the uk? Thought the ole bill had to have a reason? (I know you can just make one up) Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 08:09   Random Breath Tests. - R.P.

No not legal/lawful - talking to a Traffic Officer friend about the self same subject he days that it involves asking punters to provide a sample voluntarily effectively - unless there is reasonable suspicion of the consumption of alcohol or a moving traffic offence, basically what he says if a clued up driver challenged it they'd be up a gum tree. Reassuringly he agreed on the "matey" thing.... Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 08:31   Random Breath Tests. - sooty123

>> what he says if a clued up driver challenged it they'd be up a gum >> tree. I assume that's not a good thing? Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 08:34   Random Breath Tests. - sooty123

Wouldn't pretty much every stop have some reasonable suspicion? Like above they could say anything to cover that, it's so subjective and vague. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 08:55   Random Breath Tests. - Old Navy

What goes up comes down, I think a copper would come down from his gum tree with a fine tooth comb. "I think I can smell a herbal substance, I am going to do a drug search, it won't take much more than an hour". Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 8 Dec 13 at 08:58 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 12:16   Random Breath Tests. - Manatee

>> What goes up comes down, I think a copper would come down from his gum >> tree with a fine tooth comb. "I think I can smell a herbal substance, I >> am going to do a drug search, it won't take much more than an hour". That wouldn't work as a reason for the stop. But there's always 'weaving', driving slowly/too fast, late signals (covers nearly everybody), lighting defects, dirty number plates... Round here they could cite 'driving down the middle of the road' if they wanted to stop me - the edges are so broken up and potholed that I only venture there around blind bends and to avoid oncoming traffic. I was breathalysed in Leeds in about 1986 at about 11pm one night. I had just left a pub car park in Headingley. Stopped at the first junction and the car behind locked up and nearly ran into me. I accelerated away rapidly in the hope of putting some distance between us, which I concede was an error. That was when they put the blue lights on. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 09:10   Random Breath Tests. - Cliff Pope

>> Is random breath testing legal in the uk? Thought the ole bill had to have >> a reason? (I know you can just make one up) >> But it's never actually random, in a statistical sense, is it? I should have thought that would be pretty pointless, except for collecting statistical data about the background degree of sobriety of British drivers. Stopping every 100 drivers say, however unlikely the sample, would be a waste of time, if it meant obviously meandering drivers had to be let pass so as not to skew the statistics. In practice they don't need much excuse, and I'm happy with that. I have only been breathalysed once, and that was because the cop was bored and wanted to have a chat about Triumph 2000s. He said he'd better ask me to blow into the bag even though he could tell I was sober, and then we had the usual conversation "My dad used to have one of these". I've only been flagged down once before by a policeman, and that was in another old classic car. He said he was looking for witnesses to a murder committed locally. It seemed a bit unlikely that I would return to the scene in the same conspicuous car, but it was in fact the car's particulars he wanted. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 09:16   Random Breath Tests. - Zero

>> >> Is random breath testing legal in the uk? Thought the ole bill had to >> have >> >> a reason? (I know you can just make one up) >> >> >> >> >> But it's never actually random, in a statistical sense, is it? Random as in "I'll just stop the next car but one in a random manner to see if he has been drinking" or "random place" "random time" we will stop and BT everyone. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 09:23   Random Breath Tests. - Old Navy

We have it easy in the UK, in some places the random testing is serious. au.news.yahoo.com/a/16303846/booze-bus-proves-a-bust/ Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 10:30   Random Breath Tests. - Haywain

"Would it be better to target drivers intelligently than casting a huge drag-net - the current policy seems to be alienating their natural supporters. " They could start by nabbing all drivers with dodgy lights - they'd be bound to get at least one result per stop. It could also be an excuse to have a sniff round for other misdemeanours as well. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 10:44   Random Breath Tests. - Bromptonaut

>> They could start by nabbing all drivers with dodgy lights Thanks for the reminder - I noticed last night that I had a side light out. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 12:27   Random Breath Tests. - Robin O'Reliant

I've never been breathalised and no worries now as I don't drink, but I was once stopped by a copper late at night when I was as jober as a sudge. They were appealing for witnesses to a fatal a week previous and he wanted to know if I'd been on the road at that time. Even though I only opened the window a crack and spoke with my mouth barely opened it must have been obvious I'd had rather a good night out but he didn't bother and waved me on. That's how it was back in the day, there was a pub across the road and no doubt he'd had a few himself. Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Sun 8 Dec 13 at 12:28 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 13:31   Random Breath Tests. - madf

As most offenders tend to be serial ones, far better and easier to target all those with past convictions and target them... Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 13:47   Random Breath Tests. - Old Navy

I was once stopped on a "back road" between small towns at about midnight, I had been ferrying people home from an office Christmas do in a local hotel that I had not attended or was dressed for. I had dropped off a couple of well lubricated people and was returning home with Mrs ON. This stop was an obvious booze check, "Just a routine check sir" says young plod. After several questions to get me talking he asked my age followed by my wifes age. I replied "What has my wifes age got to do with your assessment of whether I have been drinking? At this point much older plod put his hand on young plods shoulder, pulled him back from the car window and said "Thank you sir, have a safe journey" and waved me on. This stop was set up as a police van in a field access with the plods in the road stopping cars. I have also seen a morning school run time check being done in my area, a traffic car parked, and two motorbike police pulling cars over. I certainly believe that random testing takes place, call it what you will I am all for it. It might stop a drunk killing one of my loved ones. Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 8 Dec 13 at 13:49 Reply to this message | Report message       3

Sun 8 Dec 13 15:37   Random Breath Tests. - Armel Coussine

>> I certainly believe that random testing takes place, call it what you will I am all for it. It might stop a drunk killing one of my loved ones. What a pity there isn't a random roadside test for lethally incompetent 'drivers', who must outnumber dangerously drunk ones a hundred to one... If such a test existed, it could be applied to all, including those who had been drinking, because what really counts is the incompetence, not the booze. I know the arguments for it inside out, but I can't help disliking the 'one size fits all' mentality. Indeed I imagine it is stoutly maintained by many a lethal mimser (I don't mean you ON). Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sun 8 Dec 13 16:04   Random Breath Tests. - Old Navy

>> I know the arguments for it inside out, but I can't help disliking the 'one >> size fits all' mentality. Indeed I imagine it is stoutly maintained by many a lethal >> mimser (I don't mean you ON). >> I am more likely to be caught "Making progress". :-) It seems we don't have the police resources to promote or enforce any driving standards. The media would have us believe that it is all targets, box ticking, and revenue raising. Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 8 Dec 13 at 16:05 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 14:24   Random Breath Tests. - Dog

I was driving my cream Zephyr (with faux Leopard skin seat covers!!) through the city of London one night having had more-than a phew golden throat charmers when, a dog handler cop in a van stopped me regarding a drive away crime at a petrol station nearby. He said "you had better suck a mint of something - before the 'other lot' turn up" (thanks mate) Are dog handlers coppers I wonder, or civvies? ... I'm going back a few years of course. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 15:20   Random Breath Tests. - Dulwich Estate

My only breath test was in New Zealand where every car entering the North Island to South Island ferry terminal was stopped. Nothing random here - just everybody ! It was around 08.00am on a Sunday which was probably a good time to catch the morning-after drinkers. PS No problem for me. I have been known to bend the law on occasions but never DD. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 15:41   Random Breath Tests. - Runfer D'Hills

I drink rarely and drive regularly but never consecutively in that order. Quite possibly I could drive safely enough having had a couple but I'd not put it to the test. The person who killed my best friend thought he could drive perfectly well after a "few". Clearly he couldn't. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 15:59   Random Breath Tests. - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> Are dog handlers coppers I wonder, or civvies? ... I'm going back a few years >> of course. >> They're real coppers, but back in the day non-traffic plod didn't DD too seriously. Most of them liked a pint themselves and I've been at a lock in where a police Rover was parked outside with the two occupants playing pool with the regulars and a couple of pints on the table next to them. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 21:58   Random Breath Tests. - Ted

Big culture of drinking in my day, especially the city centre division. Straight out of the nick on the night shift to one of several pubs...after a couple in the pub next door before parading for duty. It included the sergeants and the duty inspector. Even the charge office clerk, or ' knobstick ' wasn't exempt. The one on our shift was well known to be a lush, which was why he worked inside. I remember one Christmas Eve collecting him from a pub a mile or so from the station where he'd collapsed. He slept the night off in a vacant cell. He was expert at escaping from the charge office without being noticed ! Some pubs around the old market, now the ' Northern Quarter ' were open at 4 am on special licences. Another opportunity to top up before coming off nights. Happy daze.....befuddled ! Ted Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 22:14   Random Breath Tests. - Westpig

>> >> Big culture of drinking in my day, especially the city centre division. When I got promoted to Sergeant, in the early 90's, on one of my first night shifts at a North London Borough, I was tasked by the Inspector to check up on the old boy PC who was the permanent station officer at an outlying nick..and whose late shift overlapped our night shift by a couple of hours...because his 'modus operandi' was to have the pub opposite leave his pint on the police station windowsill, in a dark bit where the street lights didn't reach. ....and when a fairly junior PC in Westminster, in the early 80's, I couldn't believe how helpful my fellow officers were when an alarm went off at a pub at 0400 on my beat, all eager to give me a hand. I worked it out when we'd checked the pub with the landlord..and then they all sat on stools in the bar whilst the landlord poured us all pints. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 22:50   Random Breath Tests. - Zero

In the mid 70s I was drinking in a boozer in the City of London, last orders wasn't called, and at 10:30 two city coppers walked in and the doors were locked. All in at that time were locked in till the coppers had consumed a couple of "warmers" and left Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 22:57   Random Breath Tests. - Armel Coussine

There were a couple of pubs around Clapham Common in my minicabbing time there which sometimes had minicab drivers, taxi drivers and coppers in them until one or two in the morning. 'We don't do afters here dear, no way. Just family. But you can have another if you like, since you're in here. Bitter was it?' Made one feel really privileged. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 23:08   Random Breath Tests. - Duncan

>> There were a couple of pubs around Clapham Common in my minicabbing time there which >> sometimes had minicab drivers, taxi drivers and coppers in them until one or two in >> the morning. >> >> 'We don't do afters here dear, no way. Just family. But you can have another >> if you like, since you're in here. Bitter was it?' >> >> Made one feel really privileged. >> Or the landlady would phone the nick and say "we are having a private party". Last edited by: Duncan on Sun 8 Dec 13 at 23:08 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 23:10   Random Breath Tests. - Ted

Evenings finished about 11pm IIRC. A favourite pub was the Crown on Deansgate. The punters were mostly gone by then and the doors were locked. Most of the shift would descend on the place where the owners, Bill and Lottie, would supply beer and cabbage and ribs. A nice way of winding down after an evening of being sick on and thumping rowdies. Never drank so much that we couldn't drive home.....usually 4 or 5 pints. Got tugged by the motor patrol once in my Cooper S on the way home from a nurse's party. I knew the crew, we were workmates. I gave him a run for his money down the A5103. I can't remember what they were in....caught me though...eventually ! Ted Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 23:13   Random Breath Tests. - RattleandSmoke

The night after is a big problem, a relative of mine got banned from driving for doing just that, he had no idea. I always leave the car parked up at the weekend and work from home. It is nice to have a couple of days off from driving too. On rare occasions more frequently at this time of year I do have a few drinks during the week, but the most I will have is four weak beers so by the afternoon I will be more than fine to drive. Edit I remember you telling me story that story Ted. I can't imagine driving on five pints but things were different then. I did once drive back from the Trafford Centre after drinking two pints but I had two pints over the space of about 5 hours. Was tailgated by a cop going back to Urmston Station (I was at the Chill Factor) and never been so scared. I knew I wasn't over the limit but I knew I had alcohol in my system. Never had a beer and driven since. Some of my younger mates do drive after a night out and I am sure they probably shouldn't be doing. Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sun 8 Dec 13 at 23:17 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 9 Dec 13 00:25   Random Breath Tests. - No FM2R

I never realised the whole next morning thing, and goodness knows must have offended outrageously over the years. Then one time I had a policewoman girlfriend from Holborn nick who gave me a breath test one morning* - that was a wake-up call, I was scarily over the limit. *Please, resist the old joke. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 9 Dec 13 00:33   Random Breath Tests. - RattleandSmoke

I wasn't aware of it either in my younger days, I always thought if I didn't feel drunk I wasn't drunk. Used to go driving a lot on L plates with my mate (legally) on Sunday mornings as he often stayed at mine. Sometimes I would have had 8 pints the night before. Occasionally if I had more I felt too ill to drive but most have been over the limit a few times. Also I had no idea about the in charge of a motor vehicle thing and we often would sit in my car when coming back from the pub. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 08:07   Random Breath Tests. - Cliff Pope

I've just been stopped this morning, obviously for a "morning after" check. The reason for this particular random check was clearly that the constable wanted to see what mileage the car had done, and have a chat about Volvo 240s and whether they really lasted forever. He seemed impressed by 310,000 miles, which is quite low really. He also needed to know my age, for some reason. Perhaps I'm going to last forever too. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 08:45   Random Breath Tests. - sherlock47

>>He also needed to know my age, for some reason. Perhaps I'm going to last forever too.<< They have probably implemented a new game of police Bingo to while away the time when working. The rules of snooker were probably too complicated for the newer generation :) The only problem is if you have a card with numbers in the range 00-09. Not too many TWOCs under 10, altho I believe they do exist. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 09:07   Random Breath Tests. - Old Navy

Its only to get you talking so he can smell your breath, any hint of booze and its blow in this. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 09:19   Random Breath Tests. - Cliff Pope

>> Its only to get you talking so he can smell your breath, any hint of >> booze and its blow in this. >> No, he had the thing in his hand ready, and said they were stopping people as part of their pre-Christmas campaign. When I asked the result, he confirmed that it was zero. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 12:36   Random Breath Tests. - Westpig

>> He also needed to know my age, for some reason. Perhaps I'm going to last >> forever too. >> ...all the forms they have to fill in nowadays on the demographics of their 'customers'...make sure they're not hassling the yoofs and those with heritage that look beyond our shores. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 12:41   Random Breath Tests. - Runfer D'Hills

Years ago a pal of mine used to be a functions manager at Gleneagles hotel but lived in Edinburgh. Therefore quite often he would be driving home in the wee small hours in a dinner suit. Used to get pulled over regularly in his beige Austin Maestro. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 12:43   Random Breath Tests. - Westpig

>> Years ago a pal of mine used to be a functions manager at Gleneagles hotel >> but lived in Edinburgh. Therefore quite often he would be driving home in the wee >> small hours in a dinner suit. >> >> Used to get pulled over regularly in his beige Austin Maestro. >> That would have been the style police Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 12:47   Random Breath Tests. - Runfer D'Hills

Aye fair point ! In his defence, later in life he got himself an XJS. Now owns a posh hotel somewhere warm when I last heard. Not jealous. At all you understand... ;-) Reply to this message | Report message