Motoring Discussion > Windscreens will be bare without one.	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: R.P.	Replies: 61

Thu 5 Dec 13 10:06   Windscreens will be bare without one. - R.P.

Finally the tax disc bows out. I've not displayed one on a bike in many years - My little R80GS has a 2008 one on it (although it is the right colour !) - RIP VEL ! www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25223631 Last edited by: R.P. on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 10:07 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 10:09   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Meldrew

The tax disc to show motorists have paid vehicle excise duty is to be replaced with an electronic system, Thin end of the wedge for an electronic road use charging system? Last edited by: Meldrew on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 10:10 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 11:09   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Boxsterboy

It's funny, I was in Germany over the weekend and was thinking how clean their windscreens are without a tax disc. The only downside to me is that is an easy visual reminder of when the MOT is due. >> Thin end of the wedge for an electronic road use charging system? >> Apparently not. In dropping the proposed A14 toll, Danny Alexander said that road tolling was not part of their plans. Of course things do change, but at present, the answer is no. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 11:41   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Meldrew

Were Danny Alexander's lips moving when he made those remarks? It will come, maybe not in my lifetime bu it will happen IMO Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 5 Dec 13 11:54   Windscreens will be bare without one. - ....

>> It's funny, I was in Germany over the weekend and was thinking how clean their >> windscreens are without a tax disc. The only downside to me is that is an >> easy visual reminder of when the MOT is due. >> The reminder is on the rear number plate instead, the top disc of the two which separates the town of registration from the unique part of the plate. Let's you know when the MOT and exhaust emissions test is due. Last edited by: gmac on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 11:55 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 12:10   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Zero

>> The tax disc to show motorists have paid vehicle excise duty is to be replaced >> with an electronic system, >> >> Thin end of the wedge for an electronic road use charging system? As the old bill have used ANPR & the DVLA for checking tax disk for years, I don't think so. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 12:18   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Meldrew

" is to be replaced with an electronic system" Presumably this "System" could be interrogated, actively, by an appropriate roadside system and be the basis of road charging Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 12:27   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Zero

"This system" is ANPR and DVLA and is already in use. They are not putting in a new system. You have had number plates longer than tax disks. Last edited by: Zero on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 12:28 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 13:21   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Meldrew

I read what you say but what is the nature and purpose of the electronic system mentioned in the report? Something like the French and Italian electronic toll road "Tags" I am thinking. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 13:37   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Zero

your thinking is at a 180 tangent to what the paper says. There is NO new electronic system. And if they wanted road pricing, there is no need for tags.. As I said you have one. Its called the number plate. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 12:11   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Zero

>> Finally the tax disc bows out. I've not displayed one on a bike in many >> years - My little R80GS has a 2008 one on it (although it is the >> right colour !) - RIP VEL ! >> >> >> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25223631 so you pay all the dosh, and they don't even give you a stinking bit of paper any more. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 12:50   Windscreens will be bare without one. - henry k

>> so you pay all the dosh, and they don't even give you a stinking bit of paper any more. >> No more forged disks and no more Guinness labels :-( The end of the fancy tax disk holder industry Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 13:12   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Cliff Pope

You can continue to buy them here: www.poplargreg.com/taxdiscs/taxdiscs2/indexdiscs.htm Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 13:39   Windscreens will be bare without one. - DP

Nice to see that a monthly DD payment option is now available, and at a smaller additional premium than they currently levy for taxing biannually. Couldn't care less at the loss of the disc, although I was part of a group bidding for the printing contract for those discs not so long ago. We didn't win it, but whoever did can't be very happy. The investment was considerable. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 13:45   Windscreens will be bare without one. - R.P.

As my wife says - solves one problem here - a Springer that squeezes through the dog-guard in the Fiesta and eats the tax discs and parking tickets he finds on the screen. Small but significant problem solved ! :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 14:11   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Crankcase

Conversely, I've been trawling through Autotrader recently, looking at stuff, and it's often been useful where the photo exists to see when the tax expires on a car, or if it already has. Won't be able to do that tiny thing any more. Do we know if they are also scrapping the paperwork associated with actually paying the tax, or will they still send a reminder and a form and so on? Will it be online only? Be a bit of a pain for some if it is. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 14:14   Windscreens will be bare without one. - R.P.

I was wondering how the DD thing will work - So I buy a disc over 12 months DD. I sell the car at month 8 - do I cancel the DD so the car is untaxed ? I reckon all cars in trade will be untaxed won't they - If I pay the full amount do I get my money back ? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 14:53   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Bromptonaut

>> I was wondering how the DD thing will work - So I buy a disc >> over 12 months DD. I sell the car at month 8 - do I cancel >> the DD so the car is untaxed ? I reckon all cars in trade will >> be untaxed won't they - If I pay the full amount do I get my >> money back ? I think that's one of the details they need to work out along with the parallel issue of how a buyer knows the car is taxed. My guess is that tax will cease at change of owner with a refund for the seller and new buyer required to tax immediately. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 15:04   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Cliff Pope

>> My guess is that tax will cease at change of owner with a refund for >> the seller and new buyer required to tax immediately. >> On the day, or at the end of the month? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 15:08   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Meldrew

I see a nice little earner here for the Government. Car sold on 15th of Month, Seller gets refund from the end of the month, Buyer has to tax from the beginning of the month = a useful little payment overlap. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 15:16   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Cliff Pope

Don't you have to have insurance effective on the day from which the tax is to run? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 15:47   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Roger.

I suspect neither the DVLA nor the Gummint have worked out how this will be implemented in all its complexity. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 16:34   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Robin O'Reliant

>> I suspect neither the DVLA nor the Gummint have worked out how this will be >> implemented in all its complexity. >> Nothing to implement. You pay your VED as you do now but they don't bother giving you a disc. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 17:02   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Meldrew

Your pay your VED, you don't get a disc, you don't see anything to show for your money, still! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 17:18   Windscreens will be bare without one. - ....

Buy online you get a confirmation email. Create a DVLA folder and put confirmation email in there. If you buy at the post office you get a receipt, you could stick that in your glovebox if you want some form of paper record to live with the car. or printout the email and stick that in the glovebox . Last edited by: gmac on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 17:19 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 18:20   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Skip

If the paper discs cease in October 2014 that means that I will receive one more, & will have one last chance to try and tear it out round the perforations without tearing the disc itself. Not managed that in 33 years yet ! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 20:53   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Cockle

Managed to tear mine out yesterday without tearing the disc for the first time that I can remember, so that's now another redundant skill I've mastered....... Last edited by: Cockle on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 20:54 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 21:07   Windscreens will be bare without one. - retgwte

at least the bit of paper protects hire car and company pool car users as they can easily check, without that they would seem to be open to prosecution with no real way of checking Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 21:43   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Slidingpillar

As I drilled a panel to put a holder on the vintage car, I'll have to buy a replica badge, but I'm unsure whether in 1930 the trike was taxed at the motor cycle rate, or whether there was a trike amount. Not taxed at car rates - I know that much. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 21:47   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Cliff Pope

>> Managed to tear mine out yesterday without tearing the disc for the first time that >> I can remember, so that's now another redundant skill I've mastered....... >> Funnily, I've just managed the same feat. Either 47 years of disk-tearing practice have finally paid off, or someone has worked out how to make perforations properly. It's clearly a dying art. Stamps still have perforations, needlessly, because they come ready-separated stuck on shiny paper sheets. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 9 Dec 13 06:19   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Almac

Disc tearing will continue in Northern Ireland as our (government run) MOT stations issue us with a disc to append to the windscreen. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 21:42   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Cliff Pope

>> >> Nothing to implement. You pay your VED as you do now but they don't bother >> giving you a disc. >> It was suggested that selling the vehicle would immediately cancel the licence, but that the new owner would have to re-tax it as from the start of the month. That is a departure from present practice, where the tax transfers with the car. This change surely would have insurance implications, both in terms of convenience of a new owner driving his car home, and of the continuous insurance principle? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 22:02   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Boxsterboy

For my 50th birthday last week I was given a pair of cuff links which had mini tax discs with my date of birth as the expiry date on the disc. Very nice, but now a redundant design. And the manufacturers, along with tax disc holder manufacturers will have to diversify in the design department! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 22:46   Windscreens will be bare without one. - idle_chatterer

Seems perfectly reasonable to me, ANPR already checks your insurance and RFL. There's a fair gap between this and road pricing, but then I'd ask what the fundamental problem with road pricing is ? No-one objects to most other things being charged on the amount of use you make of them, surely it's the fairest way ? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 23:37   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Roger.

All the more space for stickers and pink fluffy dice! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 23:41   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Zero

Going to leave my last ever one issued to the car in place. In Memorium. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Dec 13 23:43   Windscreens will be bare without one. - henry k

Time to bring back badge bars ? I guess elf n safety might complain Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 6 Dec 13 00:12   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Ted

I read today that the perforating machine was thought to be destroyed by the Luftwaffe. Maybe the reason you can't tear them is that they're all done by hand with a pin. :-) The Jowett has a Bakelite holder with the name of the main dealer, car logo and round service discs inside. I don't want to get rid of it but I have a 1958 disc for a Jowett. I might scan it and alter the reg to mine....or would that be naughty ? I can't think why it would. Ted Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 6 Dec 13 09:02   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Slidingpillar

As long as you are showing a valid tax disc where needed (ie pre Oct 2014) you can show anything additional you like as long as the forward visibility through the windscreen is not impaired. The 1930 Morgan will show a repro 1930 tax disc when all this comes in. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 6 Dec 13 10:23   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Fursty Ferret

But how will we shop neighbours we don't like to the DVLA? Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 6 Dec 13 10:27   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Zero

Report them to HM Customs and Excise, and social services. Should cause enough grief. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 6 Dec 13 10:30   Windscreens will be bare without one. - VxFan

>> But how will we shop neighbours we don't like to the DVLA? I guess you'll still be able to check on the DVLA website that the RFL is still in date. www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/app/enquiry?execution=e1s1 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 6 Dec 13 10:57   Windscreens will be bare without one. - CGNorwich

If they've got a dog, easy! money.aol.co.uk/2013/12/05/rewards-for-dog-mess-whistleblowers/ Thinking of becoming a dog poo bounty hunter! Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 19:53   Windscreens will be bare without one. - retgwte

Surely its just to stop the rest of us thinking the police and the justice system is a joke when we can see the “traveller community” driving around without valid tax disks on their cars and vans. With no disk in anyones window they will be able to continue enforcing the law with fear and favour without the rest of us being able to see it so obviously. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sun 8 Dec 13 21:18   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Roger.

As Ed Milliband might say, "wacist" :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 21:59   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Shiny

>>.... justice >> system is a joke when we can see the “traveller community” driving Yes, it's not a myth, I was once sat in a POLICE car on the M1 behind my own car as they complained that my number plate wasn't reflective enough to be read by the ANPR car and how bad it would be if it was stolen and they couldn't find it for me because of that.... I could see the traffic on two LCD screens on the dash. Or may have been one with picture-in-picture. It showed the passing vehicles and paused close-ups of captured number plates. Suddenly it went.. Yabbadabbadoo no registered keeper! Yabbadabbadoo no registered keeper! Yabbadabbadoo no registered keeper! Yabbadabbadoo no registered keeper! Yabbadabbadoo no registered keeper! as a convoy of travellers in transits and caravans sloped past. Expecting the POLICE to say, sorry sir we have more important things now, good day, please get up to speed before joing the carriageway, they just sat there doing checks on me and filling in forms. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 8 Dec 13 22:19   Windscreens will be bare without one. - diddy1234

I had wondered if the police bother with the travelling community. The above example just re-enforces that they don't. ironic isn't it, were brought up to abide by the law and yet these people just blatantly avoid it and the police do nothing ! Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sun 8 Dec 13 22:41   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Robin O'Reliant

When I worked for a local authority we were evicting some gypsies from common land (a regular occurrence in my time) and someone pointed out to one of the scores of coppers there that none of the vehicles were taxed. The cop just laughed and said trying to sort that lot out would take more time and trouble than it was worth so they never bothered. I can see that point of view from a busy policeman's perspective, but if I'd just been nicked for any document offences I wouldn't have been too happy. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 9 Dec 13 11:16   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Boxsterboy

I suppose the travellers would argue that with no fixed abode it is difficult to register a vehicle to an address. Yet another reason why VED should be scrapped and a few pence added to the cost of fuel. It would stop ALL avoidance. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 9 Dec 13 11:30   Windscreens will be bare without one. - CGNorwich

"Yet another reason why VED should be scrapped and a few pence added to the cost of fuel. It would stop ALL avoidance." You think they are not running on red diesel? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 9 Dec 13 11:58   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Gromit

"You think they are not running on red diesel?" Scrap red diesel as well, then. Allow bona fide farmers, fishermen etc to claim a rebate on duty already paid on fuel afterwards. No reason why this should be any harder than businesses claiming back VAT on road diesel. Better again, add a contribution to third party insurance to fuel too. Then you can't dodge paying your share of tax and insurance if you run a vehicle at all! Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 9 Dec 13 11:32   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Roger.

It would also mean that tax paid was directly proportional to road use. OTH, it's just revenue raising which goes into the tax pot, so does it really matter how it's extracted? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 9 Dec 13 19:33   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> Yet another reason why VED should be scrapped and a few pence added to the >> cost of fuel. It would stop ALL avoidance. >> And cost business users (Such as myself) a small fortune, driving up the cost of goods in the shops. Meanwhile, Mrs Chelsea Tractor who causes rush hour chaos driving her little darlings all of half a mile to school gets away scot free. I don't understand why people think that high mileage should be penalised, 99% of us who do it have no choice and pay more anyway with the current fuel duty. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 9 Dec 13 20:45   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Boxsterboy

Obviously there would be winners and losers, as with any change in taxation. Losers would be large commercial fleets or low income rural drivers, both of who have no option but to drive distances. Winners would be Kings Road Chelsea Tractor drivers, as you point out. No tax system is fair, but with the money saved by simplified collection and zero avoidance it should be possible to engineer tax breaks for, say, commercial fleets. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 9 Dec 13 21:04   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> No tax system is fair, but with the money saved by simplified collection and zero >> avoidance it should be possible to engineer tax breaks for, say, commercial fleets. >> The problem being that sorting out the tax breaks which would have to take into account the proportion of business and personal use for the millions of self employed would swallow up any saving in administration. VED is a tax on car ownership, not car usage. We already have that with the existing fuel duty and VAT. It's nice and simple and with ANPR devices probably ending up in the utility belt of every beat copper, traffic warden and whatever other busybodies are granted one it is getting harder to evade. Let's leave it alone, whenever governments alter the tax system on motoring it's never in our favour. Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Mon 9 Dec 13 at 21:06 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 11:20   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Boxsterboy

>> VED is a tax on car ownership, not car usage. We already have that with >> the existing fuel duty and VAT. It's nice and simple >> I'm not so sure about that. The cost of administration is high, especially when many new cars have free or low VED. If it were cancelled and added to the price of fuel the cost of admin would fall to almost zero, as tax is already collected and passed to HMRC by the fuel stations. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 11:46   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Robin O'Reliant

>> I'm not so sure about that. The cost of administration is high, especially when many >> new cars have free or low VED. If it were cancelled and added to the >> price of fuel the cost of admin would fall to almost zero, as tax is >> already collected and passed to HMRC by the fuel stations. >> I was referring to your idea of tax breaks for business users. Business users come in all shapes and sizes, from the huge outfits like Eddie Stobart to the window cleaner who doesn't earn enough to pay tax in the first place. Sorting out who gets what allowance and whether you'd have to refund an eight thou a year low earner who has to use the car to do his or her job or just let them decide they'd be better off on the dole would be a problem. VED is uncomplicated, cheap for the road user, doesn't penalise the hardest workers or let the hobby motorists off the hook. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 10 Dec 13 11:55   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Runfer D'Hills

VED is also to an extent a voluntary payment. If you don't want to pay a high rate then you can choose a vehicle with a lower rate. As RR says, many businesses, large or small need to move their vehicles in order to be that business. Without them making profits and therefore paying other taxes that would simply squeeze the economic balloon so that the bulge / problem appears elsewhere. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 11 Dec 13 19:20   Windscreens will be bare without one. - Crankcase

Well, that's my last disc bought. I have to say doing it online is very much better for me than the Post Office route, for all the well rehearsed reasons. Took about a minute. We do get quite a few parcels by the Royal Mail so I hope the local PO gets something for that at least. So now I'm a tenner lighter. Sigh. :) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 16 Dec 13 10:26   Windscreens will be bare without one. - henry k

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25398499 New SORN rules and other info Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 16 Dec 13 11:07   Windscreens will be bare without one. - R.P.

We get a few of these coming through CAB - Uninsured cars with no SORN or VED record. People should pay more attention. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 18 Dec 13 07:31   Windscreens will be bare without one. - IJWS14

Mine won't be bare It currently wears, in addition to the tax disc, a tag for the Swiss auto routes, a sticker for German environmental zones and a works car park pass. Reply to this message | Report message