After putting up with years of worrying over my husband’s insistence that he can travel to work in all weathers on his GSX1400, last Friday evening torrential rain made him see sense.
It was very dark and the fen roads were flooded in places almost to the white line pulling the Mondeo whenever I found a puddle, so I rang him and told him I was turning round and going back the 12 miles to collect him and we collected the bike on Saturday.
This gave weight to the argument that we need two cars with me working more in the winter months this year than I expected to.
OK, he agreed, we’ll go out and buy a banger tomorrow for him to use until the end of February for my piece of mind if nothing else.
There are always bangers around in the Fen on the side of the road and £500 should cover it.
We then began to discuss our motoring needs and questioned what they were.
We need a tow car to use for a maximum of 1500 miles per year towing and will do as a second car on the very few days we actually need two cars in the winter, as I only have to use a car for a couple or three days a week.
With our mileage increasing due to the in laws moving from Kent to Scarborough we need an economical reliable daily use car as our main form of transport. It is around18,000 a year at the moment.
Surely the bulk of the outlay should go into the daily use car and not the tow car?
Opinions please and then I will elaborate further!
Pat
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Assuming that you're happy enough with the Mondeo - and Runfer would question how on earth you couldn't be I think ;-) - then I personally wouldn't change it if I also needed / wanted a £500 run about. I'd continue to use it as my main car, and would probably buy something like a Peugeot 306 petrol or diesel, which look smart seem to go on for ever and are as cheap as chips, as a second car. I can't see the sense in swapping a Mondeo for a different main use car; that's what it was designed to do.
Mind you, don't necessarily listen to me when it come to common sense car buying - I spent £530 on a 4.2 litre V8 petrol car!! 4 wheel drive though, so I'm assuming great for winter and towing ;-)
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I'm not quite clear what you are after. You appeared to be saying you were not happy using your car on habitually flooded roads and had turned back on a recent journey. So I thought you wanted something with a higher ground clearance and more wading capability?
That requirement sounds as if it could double up as the occasional towing vehicle - a landrover or something?
It really depends on what sort of role cars have in your life. Just to take our situation:
We have had a Volvo 240 as the main car for years. I use it for work and do about 20,000 miles a year. We have a Triumph 2000 as second everyday car, does about 5000 miles. And then a Landrover for towing, fun, winter weather, back up.
All are cheap to insure, tax and run, and very reliable.
But you could achieve a similar sort of mix with all sorts of cars, old and not so old.
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>>You appeared to be saying you were not happy using your car on habitually flooded roads and had turned back on a recent journey.<<
No:)
I thought I made it clear that last Friday evenings experience made it clear that Ian is not using the motorbike all winter and we need a second car! He's getting older and has finally realised that despatch riding in London is vastly different to riding at 2.30am on a mud strewn fen road.
The Mondeo will wade through anything!
Pat
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Zero is right Pat, the long distance family car and towing need are both where you need the best car so buying a stand alone second vehicle is the answer.
I'd be wary of £500 roadside bangers in the Fen. So many turn out to be "my uncle's sister's car I'm selling for them"... i.e. dodgy bottom of the market dealers. Also don't consider buying from the far end of a rough dealer's lot at this price. £450 of the £500 will be profit over the scrapyard value which is where many of the £500 cars are heading... and soon.
If it's needed for this night time (to the rest of us) winter run to work it should be as safe an reliable as possible. There are many less fashionable more modern cars available close to banger money and they aren't bangers at all.
I'd look on Autotrader private only as you stand a good chance of getting a car being sold for very genuine reasons and you get to meet/assess the owner.
In your area for example (assuming you are happy to have petrol for this lower miles use) here are some car's I'd look at...
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201311049661556
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310299513408
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310269476338
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201311119839513
And this looks really interesting for a low price....
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201311069714650
Poor photo and unexciting description could mean a genuine low mileage car in nice condition from a private person with no clue about how to sell.
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Thanks for that Fenlander, I feel guilty now!
We've taken a decision which no-one else seems to agree with and I was hoping someone would see it our way on here...it seems not:)
We've swapped the Mondeo for Fiesta Titanium TDCi 1.6 as the long distance car and the one to be used by Ian in the winter and myself in summer.
Road tax is £20 per year and fuel economy is far better than the Mondeo.
Now the task for this weekend is to find a tow car and we're looking at this one ( I love it!)
www.hankinsmotors.co.uk.razsor.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/volvo-v70-2-4-d5-se-5dr-huntingdon-201310309546719
I've been a bit bored with the Mondeo for sometime and find it difficult moving the seat forward all the time as well as getting in and out on a bad day in the winter.
With everyone against it I'm wondering where our reasoning falls down?
Pat
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>> With everyone against it I'm wondering where our reasoning falls down?
Two things and one we failed to take into account - one follows the other.
1/ Being a woman you failed to tell us you didn't like the Mondeo. (I should have guessed - you didn't like the last one either )
2/ Ian does what he is told.
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I do like the Mondeo Z, because it's reliable, and does the job when you want it to pick up it's skirts and move.
But it's like driving an artic unit with no trailer..all the size and no skill to it, in other words it's boring.
Fenlander, do you know the garage at Ramsey?
Pat
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>>>Fenlander, do you know the garage at Ramsey?
Very well for over 25yrs. They are a business so perhaps you'd expect them to maximise profits and minimise costs... but they can take it too far.
Even bad garages can have good cars so keep your eyes wide open if you view.
Do not let anything distract you from seeing paperwork that absolutely proves the mileage and service history is correct.
If there are jobs to be done in with the deal ensure you are happy they will actually be done and to a good standard.
Check you are happy with the ride on those 45 series tyres.
Also note the lubrication service they give prior to sale is not a service to Volvo schedules which if done properly may throw up issues. If the last service was a small one as well the next service you pay for could end up a £300+ one.
The mileage may be low for a V70 diesel estate but it could mean you will be the people to spend £1500 or so before too long on the timing belf/DMF/brake issues. Better to buy one with 135k recoded but with those jobs done.
I would make sure you actually see the last MOT to see if it had advisories.
If all the above come back positive, you like it and can afford it then don't be put off... after all you can always change it next year ;-)
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There is little logic in car swaps and what motivates people to go for a particular choice... so offered advice mostly ends up heading in the wrong direction.
It really is about what you fancy.
The only thing I'd say... be very very very wary of heading up Whytefield Road Ramsey to buy a car!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 13 Nov 13 at 10:19
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I just re read parts of this thread. You have swopped a larger car you can't get comfortable in, for a smaller car you won't get comfortable in, and you plan to use this for longer journeys?
Right Ok.
I am just off to see my 83 year old mother with the onset of Altzhiemers. I'll get more common sense out of her.
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>> We've swapped the Mondeo for Fiesta Titanium TDCi 1.6 as the long distance car
Nuts, whole hazlenuts.
:-)
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If you buy that Volvo, Pat, you won't bother with the Fiesta for long distances. But it's hardly a £500 banger, is it? Nearly £4,000 seems ambitious for a near-12 year old car (my S60 is a 52 and might fetch £1,500) and you should ask what it's had replaced. Mine - same engine - has had timing belt, DMF (and clutch, although that was barely half-worn), handbrake shoes (important to check those) and intercooler replaced since it passed that car's mileage - over £2,000 altogether.
But get it right - for the right price - and you'll love it. It's a manual too, which suits the D5 best - third will take you from 10 mph to past 80 if you want it to.
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Yes WdeB, I unearthed an old thread where you were talking about Volvo's on HJ when I researched their problems;)
We'd love a younger one but neither of us want to use finance to get both of these cars so that is the absolute limit of what's left to bargain with for a tow car.
Ian does a round trip of 24 miles a day to work so I suspect he will be using the Fiesta mostly.
We've searched Autotrader and Ebay but can't find a lower mileage one anywhere.
Pat
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I don't regard the things I've had done to my car as 'problems' so much as maintenance items that wouldn't arise on a lesser car that would be disposed of before reaching this sort of mileage. Mine had the timing belt done at 96,000 - as prescribed by the service schedule - and the other items came to light from 114,000 onwards. It's at about 135,000 now and I still happily jump into it for a long journey - especially if it's just me and I don't need the capacity of the LEC.
But knowing that these things will eventually need doing ought to give you something to bargain with on this one. Only the handbrake shoes would I consider essential now - they can fail catastrophically if left and are probably affected as much by age as mileage. The engine and transmission items will all begin to show themselves with an 'ENGINE SERVICE REQUIRED' message in the panel display, usually when accelerating hard in the aforementioned third gear, so make sure you try that to see how imminent they might be.
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Thanks WdeB, we'd already made a note to ask for proof of a cambelt change from your post in HJ, but will certainly look for proof of handbrake shoes and try a fast acceleration along the straight fen roads!
Pat
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>> Thanks WdeB, we'd already made a note to ask for proof of a cambelt change
>> from your post in HJ, but will certainly look for proof of handbrake shoes and
>> try a fast acceleration along the straight fen roads!
>>
Proof of cambelt AND TENSIONERS please Pat. x
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Thanks for the prod MD:)
Pat
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Wow, two FIAT Stilos from Fenlander! Buy one of those and just make sure you carry spare coil packs.
Agree with Zero and F, keep Mondeo as best/towing car and get a banger.
This would be my banger choice:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310289492296/
My approach for a sub-£1000 banger would be this: newest possible car at lowest possible price, with best chance of being reliable, which means something unfashionable. Kia or Hyundai then.
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>>>My approach for a sub-£1000 banger would be this: newest possible car at lowest possible price, with best chance of being reliable
Yes my point too... however
>>> which means something unfashionable. Kia or Hyundai then.
That's what Stu alwys says but he's had more trouble with such cars than I've had with Alfa/Citroen/Mondeo/Discovery over the same period.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 13 Nov 13 at 10:18
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yes but stu has car key of doom syndrome.
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>> That's what Stu alwys says but he's had more trouble with such cars than I've
>> had with Alfa/Citroen/Mondeo/Discovery over the same period.
>>
You're not taking in to account the "new as possible" bit. The KIA I suggested is a 55 plate. You won't find many Alfa/Citroen/Mondeo/Discoverys on a 55 plate under a grand. A Citroen C4 of that age, for example, will be about 2-3 times that price.
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Cheap C4...
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310079149010
From the whole ownership and running perspective I'd prefer a 2001/2002 whatever to a 2005 Korean car.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 13 Nov 13 at 10:35
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Fairy nuff FL, I'd been searching C4s recently as there's a chance we might change the wife's Golf, but I'd forgotten I'd only been searching automatics, which seem to command a higher premium.
Cerato, Stilo or C4. Hmm. All good calls for this (now redundant) conundrum, I suppose it would depend on what was available locally at what precise price.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 13 Nov 13 at 10:37
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Less popular cars seem to have fallen a great deal over the past year. I was truly shocked last night to find I could buy for under £4k a new shape C5 Tourer like the one that I had on lease until 11mths ago. Example....
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310159285785
When mine went back I was offered what seemed a reasonable figure to buy it (around £8k I think) and they treated me with contempt when I said it needed to be properly cheap to tempt me... they said it was a £10k car and £8k was already very cheap.
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>> Less popular cars seem to have fallen a great deal over the past year.
That's why I bought the Laguna. Bargain. Sound decision, so far. In the future I expect to replace it with another one (wish they still sold them here, a 12 plate will be the newest one available), or a C5 Tourer, or a Peugeot 508SW for the same reason. I wonder how far the 508RXH will depreciate in the next three years? That'd be nice.
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Blimey! That has a lot of miles but still makes the price of Pat's Volvo look very silly. I wonder if we should have looked at the C5 before choosing the LEC. I had misgivings about rear legroom, which wouldn't concern Pat, but I would fancy one in that bright metallic red as an antidote to the universal grey on our roads.
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laws moving from Kent to Scarborough we
>> need an economical reliable daily use car as our main form of transport. It is
>> around18,000 a year at the moment.
>>
>> Surely the bulk of the outlay should go into the daily use car and not
>> the tow car?
No. you need a good, reliable, economical, powerful comfortable, car for your longer journeys to scarborough AND for towing It makes sense to put the bulk of your purchasing power into that car - as you have.
You only need a small throw away short distance car car for 4 months a year max, so it makes sense to make that as cheap as possible - IE a banger.
I sometimes pass those two places on the side of the A47 that have a selection of 500 quid dross in them.
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For the mileage you intend and use, you don't need to spend more than maybe 1K or so,- avoiding any depreciation- important in a car just sitting around hardly used. Also a diesel is hardly necessary, plenty of large petrol engine motors about which will do your task and more importantly can be had for peanuts. A quick look at Autotrader showed some nice examples of Honda Accords, one with only 62K on it. There's years of life left in something like that! Don't be put off by higher VED, it pales into insignificance compared to the depreciation of running something newer with lower VED. Other ideas-2.0 Mondeo, 2.0 Avensis, 2.0 Passat, 2.5 Lexus . Now there's an idea for a top quality banger for peanuts!
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None of which are man enough to tow a heavy caravan safely! That's the problem we have Baz.
The other contender is this but towing reports aren't good.
tinyurl.com/nzuwegv
Pat
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I think since you've splashed the cash on a fiesta then a car big enough to tow a large caravan safely will always be a struggle. You've cut your options down. How about an MK1 Disco? What sort budget have you, 3-4k?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 13 Nov 13 at 11:51
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Yes, £3700 is the absolute maximum.
I seem to recall Disc's being trouble or am I thinking of Freelander's?
I'd hate to think what that does to the gallon mapmaker and I suspect the car itself isn't heavy enough for our van.
Pat
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What's the weight of your van?
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>> I suspect the car itself isn't heavy enough for our van.
Heavier than the Mondeo I think.
And the mpg is irrelevant if you're doing 1500 miles per annum. At 20p per mile, that's £300. At 40p (and it won't be that bad) it's only £300 more. The £3,000 you save in capital outlay over your Volvo will cover the excess for the next 10 years...
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How about one of these
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201307097720241
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 13 Nov 13 at 12:39
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Now that looks a lot of car for the money.
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>> Now that looks a lot of car for the money.
Not impressed with that (2.5 V6 TDI) engine though - I would have expected more than 'only' 35mpg combined and a 10.4s 0-60. I guess it is >10 years old.
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Just as a matter of interest I wouldn't travel to look at that Skoda....
It's a huge price for a 52 plate. Mileage is so low for a Superb diesel it's hard to believe. Steering wheel has wear more associated with 100K+, ugly scrapes on the alloys, paint scuffing on n/s bumper, dirty pass seat material, nasty dirty wear on drivers door pull armrest.
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>>Steering wheel has wear more associated with 100K+, ugly scrapes on the alloys, paint scuffing on n/s bumper, dirty pass seat material, nasty dirty wear on drivers door pull armrest.
Old, fat , unfit person wearing sovvie rings I reckon.
That wheel wear isn't normal for fingers, and the armrest is probably a crutch to help getting in/out.
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Mazda 626's (Petrol only) generally get good press.
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www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1996-HONDA-LEGEND-AUTO-MAUVE-PURPLE-3-5-v6-FSH-with-Honda-3-former-keepers-/251370699054
This would tow for you. And if you're only towing 1500 miles p.a. then the mpg is irrelevant.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 13 Nov 13 at 12:39
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Mapmaker has a very valid point, but as irrelevant it may be, it still hurts every time you fill up.
Could get LPG fitted though and still only be around £2k.
This is my shout -
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-VOLVO-V70XC-AWD-VOR-METALLIC-BLUE-200-BHP-LPG-BEIGE-INTERIOR-/261322647611?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3cd80b283b
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Interesting shout... but look what it's needed spending on it at only 132k...
OVER £8000 HAS BEEN SPENT ON THE CAR IN THE LAST TWO YEARS INCLUDING CYLINDER HEAD REFURBISHMENT [HEAD SKIM, VALVES REGROUND, INJECTORS REFURBISHED, NEW HEAD GASKET], AUTO GEARBOX OVERHAULED, NEW BRAKE DISCS AND PADS ALL ROUND, TURBO SEALS REPLACED, TRANSFER BOX STRIPPED DOWN AND LEAK FIXED, SAT NAV CD READER OVERHAULED, REAR O/S WHEEL BEARING
Excuse the caps, I've pasted in from the listing.
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True, It would need careful investigation, but the guy seems to have answered the questions well. I think he may have been shafted by a main dealer on repairs? But who knows?
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ToMoCo, so you'd spend £1300 in order to save £250 each year for a couple of years before the car is scrapped?!
And I wouldn't touch a car like that Volvo that has a dodgy LPG conversion that causes it to eat head gaskets. Once you start messing around with the manufacturer's car...
Much better with a car that you can run on chip oil. Not many of those around these days sadly, thanks to scrappage.
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No, I wouldn't. I said you had a very valid point.
Was just pointing out that once the car is bought, that cost is then generally forgotten and it's the day to day running costs that hurt the pocket.
But I'd quite happily pay for LPG on that Honda or an old LS400 If I had a view to keep it any length of time.
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It's interesting that Pat posted "what shall we do" at 0543 today and by 1000 they had a new car. Impulsive or what these Fen people!
Do hope you noticed my reply about the Ramsey Volvo seller Pat?
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 13 Nov 13 at 14:45
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Its the gasses seeping out of the reed beds in the drains that line the droves.....
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From OP "Opinions please and then I will elaborate further!"
A done deal before posting!
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Probably bouncing that Volvo back across the Fen as we speak.
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The deal was done for the Fiesta but nothing yet for the tow car, and I did explain that I was looking for someone/anyone to understand our decision!
Pat
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I realise that. Sorry, wasn't having a go
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Yes Fenlander, I did ask if you knew them further back too:)
My email is open if you prefer...
Pat
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>> www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1996-HONDA-LEGEND-AUTO-MAUVE-PURPLE-3-5-v6-FSH-with-Honda-3-former-keepers-/251370699054
>>
>> This would tow for you. And if you're only towing 1500 miles p.a. then the
>> mpg is irrelevant.
Honda Legends are fairly heavy and powerful but have relatively low towing limits. 1500kg for that one.
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We always use this and try and get as close to 85% as possible.
www.whattowcar.com/basic_index.php
The caravan is 1343Kg and the Mondeo a 96% match while the V70 is 91% and the Peugeot 607 I mentioned earlier is 88%.
Pat
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IIRC your caravan is 1500kg MPTLM, give or take? That's the number to aim for 85% of if you use that rule.
Nothing wrong with modifying it a bit as long as you know, particularly if you put everything in the car anyway.
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>>Nothing wrong with modifying it a bit as long as you know, particularly if you put everything in the car anyway.<<
That's a recipe for disaster:)
You have to remember we are both lorry drivers who feel the way a vehicle and trailer drives through the seat of our pants and it really is surprising just how much more stable an outfit is when it's loaded correctly.
IMHO putting it in the car isn't loading it correctly, but there we are!
Pat
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>> >>Nothing wrong with modifying it a bit as long as you know, particularly if you
>> put everything in the car anyway.<<
>>
>> That's a recipe for disaster:)
>>
>> You have to remember we are both lorry drivers who feel the way a vehicle
>> and trailer drives through the seat of our pants and it really is surprising just
>> how much more stable an outfit is when it's loaded correctly.
>>
>> IMHO putting it in the car isn't loading it correctly, but there we are!
>>
>> Pat
Well you can't take much on holiday then, if your caravan payload is only 150kg and the weight of the mover has to come out of that:)
I'm sure you know when it's unstable.
My point was only about the weight of the caravan - which is presumably 1343 empty, not full of clothes, food, chairs, tables and awnings.
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An oldish (<10yo) Japanese 4x4 was the first thing that sprung to my mind, perhaps a Mitsubishi Shogun or the like. Would also be useful in the poor weather conditions that would be forcing him off the bike.
A quick browse on autotrader in my neck of the woods suggests that they can be had within your budget
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Yes, agree with the idea of Japanese 4x4. My original post didn't take into account the weight of your van, but I still think large petrol engine power is an option, as it avoids the diesel pitfalls at that age- and they are literally giving them away. You could of course LPG it but would need to look at the economics carefully, wouldn't have thought it was cost effective. Shogun is a good call, strong forums, cheap parts and popular older model to keep going.
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I'm a 4x4 fan for towing, but if you can live without it and your trailer is within the vehicle's towing limits, a Mondeo is hard to beat as a cost effective tug.
Just watch out for towing limits that are based on the towcar being less than fully loaded. The giveaway is when the (gross train weight - gross vehicle weight) is a lot less than the quoted maximum towing weight.
Renault used to be the worst offenders for this which probably won't matter to you Pat, but there are others who play this game.
Don't take website figures at face value either - check the plate. Renault UK are still clueless.
www.renault.co.uk/cars/model/scenic/grandscenic/prices/index.jsp
They quote the maximum towing weight here for the Grand Scenic as 1300kg with driver only. Yet the gross train weight is quoted as 3530 and the gross vehicle weight as 2230, which clearly means you could load the car up fully and still and tow 1300kg. I suspect it's the train weight they have got wrong, either that or the "driver only" qualification no longer applies - but the only way to know will be to check the plate on the car.
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Pat,
I can see some of the logic in this :-) Ian wanted a £500 banger to drive to work over the winter but if that was my other half then I'd want something a bit better than a £500 banger. So swapping the Mondeo for the Fiesta made some sense. And then look for a tow car to be used once in a while - so economy is not so important.
But I might have considered using the cash available for the tow car to get the car for Ian. But maybe swapping the Mondeo got a car for Ian sooner. But in the meantime how do you manage for getting to work.... I assume you're not using a bike?
No experience of towing but I don't think I'd go down the LPG route for an older car. The LPG Volvo above sounds like it is causing engine damage for example.
Best of luck locating a car... I wonder how much the original Skoda Superb goes for if you can find a decent example?
EDIT: Not a lot it seems. About £1350 for a 02 plate 1.8T.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 13 Nov 13 at 16:17
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Thanks rtj, you're almost there;)
The thinking started with the assumption that a £500 banger would never start in all weathers at 2am on a frosty/wet morning.
I don't like the LPG route either for towing and am sure it caused the problems with the Volvo.
This week I am taking him and then collecting him around 6.30-7pm at night if it's very wet or frosty, but it makes it a very long day and an even shorter night!
Pat
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>>The thinking started with the assumption that a £500 banger would never start in all weathers
Aren't you living in the past? Isn't a 10-year old car actually *more* likely to start in all weathers than a newer one? On account of being less sophisticated.
I'm impressed that within six hours of your binning your old Mondeo that two posters have suggested a Mondeo for the replacement... ;)
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Wed 13 Nov 13 at 16:28
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That's a fair point Mapmaker. Our £536 1994 Audi has managed 6 months in our ownership without once failing to start, and I fully expect that it'll do so in a week and a half when we're back from holiday. That'll be around 3 weeks since it was last used (not that we'll have been away for 3 weeks I hasten to add!). I guess it is more likely to suffer from a flat battery simply because of the age of the current one, but on the other hand there are very few electronics to flatten the battery in the first place!
Though watch out for a post around the 25th November cursing the unreliability of old cars and their poor starting :-)
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>>Aren't you living in the past? Isn't a 10-year old car actually *more* likely to start in all weathers than a newer one? On account of being less sophisticated.<<
Possibly so but look at the scenario if it doesn't!
Ian would have to take the Mondeo and I'd be left at 2.30 trying to put on charge, spay it with WD 40, taking the plug leads off and warming them up on a radiator, not to mention setting the points before I had to go to work;)
I've been there tooooo many time MM!
Pat
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>> Thanks rtj, you're almost there;)
>>
>> The thinking started with the assumption that a £500 banger would never start in all
>> weathers at 2am on a frosty/wet morning.
Pat, I think you are way off the mark there. My £500 A3 is running very sweetly and starts on the button. Admittedly today was the first frost its seen, but so far nothing makes me think that winter will be a problem. IMO the late 90's / early 00's was a fine era for reliability with good fuel injection systems becoming common place, but before they became overly complicated.
Think I would pass on that Volvo - looks quite expensive to me. Just my opinion but I favour higher mileage stuff when shopping cheap - I take the view if its made it that far then it must have been reasonable and good long runs are better than short journeys
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>> My £500 A3 is running very sweetly and starts on the button.
Not read about coil pack problems on VAG engines? I hope yours is sorted. But the late 90s and early 00's had serious problems on these engines surely. Probably all sorted now and yours will be fine.
But I can see Pat's logic. Middle of the night and very cold and a need to get to work.
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Pat. My fifty quid, twenty-year-old Kia Pride always started on the button. I used to hose down the engine bay after particularly muddy events and start it immediately after.
I think you've probably convinced yourself and no amount of discussion will sway you. Just go and buy whatever you want and I hope you get a good one.
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Why did you get rid of your CRV - would that not have been ideal for your second car?
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>> I think you've probably convinced yourself and no amount of discussion will sway you. Just
>> go and buy whatever you want and I hope you get a good one.
>>
On the contrary we sat last night and discussed every bit of the advice on this thread and it was invaluable.
There wasn't a lot of time as the alarm was set for 2am today (a lie in), but it's a great help when time is short.
Pat
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Having listened to both Fenlander and WdeB among many others advice, we have decided we do want a V70 but agree the price is too high at Ramsey.
This is the current favourite
www.waterhall1.co.uk/used-cars/volvo-v70-2-4-d5-se-5dr-chalfont-st-peter-201305176806715
I have emailed the dealer asking if the FSH shows a cambelt change and when, if it shows any work to the brake discs, when the next service is due and does it have a tow bar.
If anyone knows the dealer I would appreciate feedback as we have to collect the Fiesta on Saturday at 10am and there isn't a lot of time left to waste a journey for nothing and then have to look for others in a different direction!
Pat
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THe HJ Car by Car - which I'm sure you've checked- is quite lengthy. I'd be careful and make sure cambelt tensioners and pulley have evidence of change and that a full and complete service history is present before I progressed any further.
Price to me seems a bit steep for a 13 year old car, I'd be looking to haggle down a fair bit. Time of year is in your favour as it's always bleak for dealers heading into Christmas period. Have you got a good independent specialist near you to fix it up, this would also be part of the decision for me. Otherwise it could become expensive.
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>>14 mpg - 19.6 mpg<< taken from caravan forums.
I don't like that bottom figure when towing though, do you!
Pat
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Buy an old Jaguar and get 10mpg when towing.. (I did).. But doing it in style...
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I suppose fuel consumption is a bit high on the Hyundai....
I suggest maybe you and Ian should cut back and get a smaller shed to tug .....
Something like this then would be a bit cheaper on the fuel.....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxUpDrtBCO4
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Pat, cars don't *have* plug leads (these days). Living in the past as I said!
If you don't pick up the Fiesta until Saturday, what about sticking with the Mondeo? There doesn't seem to be anything *actually* wrong with it, it'll only be doing 1500 miles per annum. The environmentally conscious thing would be to keep it. The financially sensible thing would be to keep it. It costs a lot of money to change cars, probably £1,000 at that level?
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>>There doesn't seem to be anything *actually* wrong with it, it'll only be doing 1500 miles per annum. The environmentally conscious thing would be to keep it. The financially sensible thing would be to keep it. It costs a lot of money to change cars, probably £1,000 at that level? <<
I know you are absolutely right MM, but I've spent all my life either making financially sensible decisions or not having a choice because the money wasn't there to do any other.
I really fancy being indulgent instead for once!
Pat
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>>I really fancy being indulgent instead for once!
So you're getting a Volvo! Bit middle aged, Pat?! ;)
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This from the man in the Honda Accord!
}:---)
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>> >>I really fancy being indulgent instead for once!
>>
>>
>> So you're getting a Volvo! Bit middle aged, Pat?! ;)
>>
And a diesel Fiesta.......Not really living in the fast lane
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>>.......Not really living in the fast lane<<
I save that for driving a V8 Scania;)
Pat
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What Mappy said ^
For the avoidance of confusion, his post timed at 13.19.
Last edited by: Duncan on Thu 14 Nov 13 at 17:00
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I managed to catch this one this morning just 24 minutes after the ad was posted on Gumtree!
www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/volvo-v70-diesel-d5/1038872190#photo-content
I have been in contact with the owner and have had it HPI checked.
Everything checks out perfectly so we are off to Cambridge for 9am tomorrow:)
....that's if Ian ever gets out of the queue for the Dartford tunnel tonight:(
Pat
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Looks tidy that Pat and has made the effort to present it well.
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Looks a lot better example than the first one you posted, definitely worth going to see. Mileage is a lot lower and plenty of life left in it.
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Looks a well cared for example.
Have a look down the front as the radiator is a 3 core sandwich of Water, Intercooler and aircon rads. The intercooler (middle one) is the one that blows at around this mileage, usually bow out at the bottom but do not always leak oil as a tell tale. Ask if the intercooler has been replaced, if not budget around £300 for a new one + fitting if Ian doesn't fancy the spanner work. Check in the rear view mirror when test driving for blue smoke.
Ask if the EGR has been blanked off or the plenum taken off and cleaned, if not it's a relatively quick and easy job to do but very dirty.
Sign up to the VOC website, lots of good information available there for free.
I can recommend DPA in Nottingham as a good indie who knows his Volvo stuff without the Volvo main dealer price tag. He's looked after my S60 for the last four services and MOTs.
Good Luck !
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Does look good and may well be fine. I think I'd be trying very hard to assess the condition of the clutch though on any car which is being offered for sale with a towbar.
I'm mildly ashamed to admit that I'm related to some caravanists and they tell me clutches can be a weak spot on vehicles used for regular towing.
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Thanks for the excellent advice gmac, I will make sure Ian reads it before we leave this morning, It was 8.30 before he finally made it home from Sittingbourne yesterday!
We're swapping the Mondeo for the Fiesta at 4pm and have just realised the Mondeo has at least 3/4 of a tank of diesel in it.
The tow bar is a Volvo manufactured and fitted detachable on and would be around £600 because the car has to 'have the laptop put on it to alter settings' for towing.
If we had to fit a tow bar it would have been a pattern on for around £300 and then taking it in to be tweaked so I reckon the clutch wear risk will negate this.
It's reassuring that when I checked out the address on Google maps the Volvo stood on his driveway in the picture!
Pat
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Pedant warning! Not spell checked so don't read it and moan!
What a day yesterday was and I must be getting old as I'm feeling the results of it this morning.
I wasn't going to post this today but I feel I have to because we are both so grateful to the immense help and advice given by so many on this thread.
We would have bought any one of the three cars we looked at yesterday and ended up this morning with no budget left and a load of problems.
Thanks all, this is what makes this forum so special and to top it off I got Ted out of bed yesterday morning at an ungodly hour to access this thread and read WdeB's advice out to me whilst we were in Cambridge (Sorry Ted!).
First on was excellent and a bargain until Ian test drove it and the message WdeB mentioned came up on the dash when he floored it in 3rd gear ( ranks among the best bit of advice we've ever had!).
Owner didn't seem surprised so we rang Ted while the owner hovered, as we couldn't remember the possible cause of it.
We asked for an hour to think about it and went over to the Volvo dealer in Cambridge and I went in and asked for a chat with the service manager pleading 'female alone/no mechanical knowledge'
I know it was wrong, but needs must!
He asked for the registration number and told me the fault had been there since last year and it had been in for a loss of power problem which had NOT been rectified by them.
I asked if £1k would be likely to put it right and he said he didn't think so.
Still wanting the car we sat in a Tesco car park and had a discussion and had almost persuaded ourselves to chance it but I had to ring our Ford dealer and put off swapping the Mondeo for the Fiesta until today.
I get the service manager, by chance, on the phone and after asking about the V70 he spent 20 minutes persuading us to 'walk away'. Service over and above, I think!
On the way home we decided to call into Ramsey and Fenlander you are spot on.
Lowest mileage and highest price but service history written by the same person, with the same pen for the last four years and wear on carpets, gear knob and arm rest to make us walk away!
Home to check the next on the list ( we do need an I phone thingy perhaps!) and after a phone call we leave in a mad rush to go to Calverton Notts.
High mileage but genuine FSH and test drove well with no warnings coming up.
Just before we paid Ian decided to look at the fuel consumption and previous warnings on the computer thingy on the dashboard and found it wasn't working at all...could that be why no warnings came up when he drove it.
Stood in the freezing cold and had a domestic difference of opinion.
Ian...we need a car today
Pat...let's go to a pub and eat and discuss this over a glass of Rioja.
I won:)
Off to go through all the ads again to plan todays test drives, but Plan B was formed over the main course.
Spotted a little Corsa on the side of the road at Guyhirn for £500 and as a last resort that will buy us some time to research this properly.
Two things came out of yesterday, after driving three very different ones Ian now has a good idea of how one should drive and for me, it IS the car I want. I love it and the heated seats are a bonus.
Sorry this is long, but if I had left it until tomorrow it would be twice as long....
Pat
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The saga continues!
Illuminating post on the perils of purchasing privately (Cor - alliteration!).
Keep us in the loop, Pat!
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Why don't you re-negotiate with the Fiesta deal so that you keep the Mondeo (you know its history, is a good car, will tow and is reasonably economical) rather than agonising over finding an old Volvo which by the looks of what you've posted is going to be a real gamble and probable money pit?
Sorry to sound so clinical but the old advice is never buy a car in a hurry!
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Volvo dealer did well by you! Nice to hear, and good luck with getting the right one.
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I thin think this is gods way of telling you you have chose the wrong strategy here....
meanwhile back at the Ford dealer in the fens.
"oh **** - that truckie woman has just pulled into he car park - quick look busy"
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Dec 13 at 12:52
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Great post Pat, an example of what this forum should be (thinking about the could be thread).
It's not even about the perils of buying privately, it's about buying at 10yrs old and 100K+. Particularly an issue with prestige cars where the latter years owners rarely afford or bother to maintain to dealer standards.
In truth Pat, as other have already hinted, trading your best car for your smallest car and leaving a modest budget to buy an old prestige car you want to rely on for caravaning is making the job very difficult. If you'd traded the Mondeo for the towcar it would have been so much easier at the higher budget. Finding a smaller cheaper car as a get to work runabout is no problem.
The thing is the V70s hold their price due to a perceived reputation well above their true value. Many other 2002/2003 cars with high miles are available for £1000-£1500 so the Volvo prices are double or more than their true worth as a lump of metal.
I'm glad the pitfalls of the Ramsey place were obvious. I didn't want to add any more even by mail. Suffice to say the MOT garage they previously used are well known to me. Shall we just say they were amazed at what that dealer "expected to pass" and how "inventive" the repairs could be for a retest.
>>>sat in a Tesco car park and had a discussion and had almost persuaded ourselves to chance it... Stood in the freezing cold and had a domestic difference of opinion. Ian...we need a car today.
Worrying thought processes... snap car decisions as you almost found out could cost you dear.
Finally if you've actually bought the Corsa just top up the oil, coolant, brake fluid and battery. Check the tyre pressures and make sure they are safe for tread etc. Then do no more to it and have a good long think about what to look for next.
Is there any chance the Fiesta seller has a suitable more expensive towcar that you could swap onto even at this late stage?
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sun 17 Nov 13 at 10:27
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Pat - How about this for a scheme?
If you're commited to buying the Fiesta ( and indeed feel it is actually a good car you want and which would prove useful over the winter particularly ) Why not bail out of trading in the Mondy and if you don't want to tie up the capital needed to buy the Fiesta then just finance most of it.
Ok, you'll pay monthly repayments on the Fiesta over the winter but then you'll both have decent cars and still have a suitable and reliable tow car.
Come the spring, you'll have more options, you could sell the Fiesta maybe, or indeed sell the Mondeo if that's what you still want to do, or keep both, or sell both, but you'd by then have the comfort zone of not "needing" the two cars at once due to the better weather.
If you're able to entirely get out of the Fiesta deal though, I'd advise going back to the plan of keeping the Mondeo for now and finding a cheap and cheerful runabout for Ian to use over the winter. Far more likely to find a quick solution to that brief than a cheap towcar in perfect condition.
Good luck anyway whatever you do. Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.
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I'd looked at some 2K V70's and came to the same conclusion as Fenlander that they are a bit expensive for what they are. A lot at that price point were quite tired.
I always think the 2-3K price mark is a complicated one. The car still has enough value in it that you will repair it if something fairly major goes, but having done that its difficult to know when to call it a day. In the case of my A3 its quite clear cut - 6 months MOT left so if it lasts that long I'm happy. I will put it in for a test, but if it needs more than 200 ish to get it through then I'll weigh it in (unless we have such a bond that I'm compelled to keep it).
For those who know the V70 better than me are the petrol ones a good choice? Might get you into a newer model and with the money you will save on fuel with the diesel fiesta the overall running costs might not be so bad
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Off the cuff suggestion here.
Jaguar X-type
No idea if it can tow what you need but looks like you get quite a bit for your money at the 2.5K mark plus 4 wheel drive for the winter
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Pattie...Glad to be of some, although little, use. I was out of bed, even though it was about 0900 hrs
If you're not committed to the cheapo, I have a very clean W reg Megane here. SiL's car, now got the Voyager, he's owned it for 5 years, it's got an MOT. Maybe even tax..have to go and look. One or both of the drive shafts click on sharp turns.....they have for 5 yrs due to a garage ripping the previous lady owner off by charging her 3 times for new rubber boots and not doing the job. Then they gave it an MOT.. got a proper one now ! Pair of shafts ,new, £50 off ebay and not too bad to fit if you have the spanners. He wants £325 ono.
Ted
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She's got enough problems without you offloading a Renault onto her!
;>)
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A recent Car Mechanics article on corrosion was critical of the X type for bad sill rot underneath the plastic covers. Water gets trapped and eats away at the metal.
They modified the problem I think they said in 2005 but worth checking.
The french manufactuers came out the best, PSA and Renault really good for preventing rust.
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>> A recent Car Mechanics article on corrosion ......
>>
>> The french manufactuers came out the best, PSA and Renault really good for preventing rust.
>>
That's because the french motors spend so much time away from salty roads, trying to get the dodgy electrics working.... ;-)
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>> A recent Car Mechanics article on corrosion was critical of the X type for bad
>> sill rot underneath the plastic covers. Water gets trapped and eats away at the metal.
>>
>> They modified the problem I think they said in 2005 but worth checking.
>>
I think they sorted the problem a couple of years earlier than that.
IIRC water drains down the A pillar. In addition the X type stance is tail high plus problems with drain holes at the front of the sills = a big problem.
I have seen a photo from the USA of an X type with horrific rust. When exposed, half the A pillar was missing.
IIRC AWD is 2.5 or 3.0 petrol
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The article states '...and it's believed that Jaguar modified the sill after 2004'
They mention 'appalling rust in the sills underneath those plastic covers' :-(
About Renault 'This is how to build car bodies' :-)
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>> The french manufactuers came out the best, PSA and Renault really good for preventing rust.
>>
I'd agree that.
At 13yo the only significant rust on my Xantia was on the drivers door. The door that had been re-skinned by insurers body shop after a 'hit/run' while unattended on the station car park.
At approaching nine years my current Berlingo has a bit of corrosion at the front of the bonnet which I suspect will lead to it's needing to be replaced. The rest of it is absolutely sound.
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Good report, Pat. Sorry it didn't turn out as you hoped.
I wouldn't abandon the idea of a V70 just yet. There really is nothing so good for covering long distances (and I happily place my LEC below the S60 in that league table) and there are plenty around. And I'm guessing you didn't try slotting Back in Black into the HU-803, or you wouldn't even be considering anything else.
I'd also dispute Baz's term 'potential money pit', even allowing for the qualification. There's a clear but finite list of the jobs these cars can need, and by the age of ten most should have had at least two (one being the timing belt, which is genuinely a consumable.) So the crucial thing is to find an owner willing to sell at a price that leaves you something in reserve for the remaining jobs, and not clinging to the idea that a 'prestige' car should command a prestigious price.
I would guess that the car that gave you the message is in need of an intercooler, which is a relatively modest job. That's consistent with a loss of power - the ECU has a 'limp' mode that keeps the engine below about 2,500 (not ideal when it comes on in the right lane of the M4 but presumably there to protect against further damage) and that's what I experienced before I had the IC replaced. The DMF was an altogether nastier, grosser problem.
The other thing that can happen with these engines is sticky variable vanes in the turbo. If it's been driven too little or too gently and/or not fed on Shell a boot in third can trigger the same message and limp mode. The recommended treatment (ack to the VOC site for this) is to take any opportunity to boot it from 40 to 60 in fourth, which apparently puts the vanes through their full range of travel and helps keep them moving freely. I do it to mine now and it seems to help.
Last thought: do you need an estate? Nice, undoubtedly, but more likely to have been worked hard and, paradoxically, commanding a higher price. An S80 looks a bit gawky but has the same seats and mechanicals (if you can find a manual) and has more room in the back. Even an S60 like mine loses out only in the boot area (and possibly, for you, in its weight for towing) but is otherwise a V70 saloon. And they go for much lower prices than V70s these days.
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>> I would guess that the car that gave you the message is in need of
>> an intercooler, which is a relatively modest job.
>>
That's the problem with ECM6805 it's a generic message. You need a good garage to do a smoke test and find the cause of the leak. Too many garages are happy to throw parts at the car.
My own car threw that code, it was the vacuum pipe which runs off the T-connector by the starter motor had split. I think there are four common things which can trigger this fault code, if you get a combination of the problems it starts getting expensive without proper diagnosis.
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On a separate note WdB did you test drive an S/V60 before you bought your LEC ?
I remember you mentioning a V70 but would be interested in your views of the new 60 models if you've been in one. I'm thinking of swapping my S60 for a newer one.
I know I've written how much I do not like Volvo dealers and Volvo Germany in the past but the competition don't seem to be much better from my unsuccessful attempts to throw money in their direction. At least I know where not to go with Volvo I'd have to go through that pain again with another brand.
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>> Last thought: do you need an estate? Nice, undoubtedly, but more likely to have been
>> worked hard and, paradoxically, commanding a higher price. An S80 looks a bit gawky but
>> has the same seats and mechanicals (if you can find a manual) and has more
>> room in the back. Even an S60 like mine loses out only in the boot
>> area (and possibly, for you, in its weight for towing) but is otherwise a V70
>> saloon. And they go for much lower prices than V70s these days.
>>
Yep, the S60 D5 has a maximum shed tugging weight of 1600kgs according to the V5C.
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...WdB did you test drive an S/V60 before you bought your LEC ?
Not seriously because it was never going to be big enough for us. I did have an S60 1.6D as a courtesy car a couple of years ago. I wrote a few notes on it here: liked the engine, pleasantly surprised by the performance, too little room around the pedals, Stop-Start worked well, EPB didn't - verging on dangerous. Less room in the back seat than my old S60. Ugly shape - too many wiggles and lost the purity of the original.
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Thanks.
It's the space around the pedals and the lack of footrest that's making me think long and hard. I don't need lots of room, we have the shed for that, but I do need something I can be comfortable for up to 11 hours in one day.
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>>
>> >> The french manufactuers came out the best, PSA and Renault really good for preventing
>> rust.
You'll see no, or very little rust on any Renault post about 95. They are the only company that ever got plastic body panels right as well. Few people realise the Scenic Mk1 had plastic front wings even after owning one for years.
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>> For those who know the V70 better than me are the petrol ones a good
>> choice? Might get you into a newer model and with the money you will save
>> on fuel with the diesel fiesta the overall running costs might not be so bad
>>
Problem with the Volvo 5-cylinder petrol is there's no room for a caravan when the fuel bowser is attached. A T5 is a quick car but it'll cough at the sight of a petrol station.
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I know !
Get a Mondeo
Good cars those.
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Today has seen the Mondeo swapped for the Fiesta and what a lovely, nippy little tool that is!
We then had a run over to Milton Keynes to look at yet another lemon..and a very late lunch at Wellingborough on the way home to re-think over yet another glass of Rioja.
I can live with this...I don't have to cook at all.
To be absolutely honest there is solid reasoning behind the decision to swap the Mondeo for the Fiesta. We have been through some rough times financially in the past due to ill health and if those bad times ever come back we are under no illusion that the caravan and the tow car may well have to go.
This decision would leave us with a relatively new, very economical car and some cash to spare....it's also the reason we are determined to stick within our budget and not turn to financing it any other way.
Tomorrow we are off to Brigg and possibly to Bury St Edmunds!
Brigg is top budget, but we're hoping worth it.
WdeB, can't wait to try Hell's Bells when I'm driving it home but even without that, there is no other car I want, and Ian has already accepted the V70 will be mine!
Pat
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>> To be absolutely honest there is solid reasoning behind the decision to swap the Mondeo
>> for the Fiesta. We have been through some rough times financially in the past due
>> to ill health
Funnily enough, you used those exact same words to justify the new caravan and the new mondeo.
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Yes....but we're just making sure we never have to go back there Z, nothing wrong in that.
Pat
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I have a question too Pat: why the determination to find the right Volvo (especially as it seems there are pitfalls)?
I'm not asking out of anti-Volvo prejudice. I know there are good Volvos and Volvos not driven by mimsers. But what about all the other sorts of car that might even be better value?
Just curious you understand. I hope you find something you like, naturally.
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Pat have you seen this which is quite local...
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201311169958492
The ad seems to say all the right things and looks good in the images... private too which I prefer.
**quite local.... I'm guessing under 30mls from you anyway.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 18 Nov 13 at 09:45
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I had missed that one fenlander but we chatted about this yesterday morning and tried to identify our reluctance to buy from the type of place (both private and small garage) we'd been looking at.
No confidence in our own buying skills and no confidence in the type of con merchants we'd talked to.
So, instead of going to Brigg we went here.
www.nicholasfletcherltd.co.uk/index.php#2
There was a few to look at and compare, and a man who knew Volvo's but also had a reputation to protect.
For our situation, we felt far more comfortable just as we do dealing with our local Ford dealer.
I would love to link to the one we bought but he has removed it from the website already.
It's an 05 V70 D5 SE with 102,000 miles, full black leather interior with heated seats and memory (which was important for us).
It's the 185BHP and goes like poo off a stick:)
No towbar but we can get that fitted and we negotiated a bit on the price of £5495 and it comes with 12 months tax and MOT and a full service being done this week.
The extra money (£1500) will go on our 0% card and will be paid off by Christmas.....but Christmas is cancelled!
I can't wait to drive it home and will lose Ian in the Fiesta on the way down the M1 on Saturday morning, then we'll see how it handles along the A47, all to AC/DC in full flow!
As an aside, the Fiesta is excellent, we've flown about all over the place for the last 3 days and it performs effortlessly, returning 52MPG and rising, and will nip in and out of anywhere.
The 1.6 Titanium was the right choice and no regrets at the moment.
It's also easier to get in and out of for me than the Mondeo was.
Pat
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Dec 13 at 12:52
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Well done, Pat. I hope it serves you well. You don't say what colour it is, and it seems to be in limbo between the dealer's Current and Previously Sold pages.
It's remarkable how Volvo seats can make such a range of people comfortable. I'm a lean but broad-backed 6'5" and - if memory serves - you're not. Mrs Beest is in between, a long-legged 5'10" and we can all get comfortable. (Mrs B likes the LEC's seat better than I do.) Everyone who rides in the S60 comments on the quality of the seat. Makes me wonder what Humph looks like if he can't get comfy in a Volvo.
Have a drink on me.
};---)
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It's a metallic fairly dark grey and he called us as we got home last night to let us know it passed the MOT with no advisories.
We both keep reflecting on where we could have been now without the help from this forum.
We're so grateful!
Really must get some work done now;)
Pat
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Glad you got sorted Pat. From your feedback to date on cars viewed it did seem inevitable given time constraints budget creep would come into play. That guy does look OK from his website, hope that turns out to be true in reality. Look forward to a first drive report soon.
BTW you should be getting way over 53mpg on the Fiesta surely. With the same engine my almost Volvo sized C5 Tourer averaged that sort of figure with brisk fen driving... 56mpg on a longer run.
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>> BTW you should be getting way over 53mpg on the Fiesta surely. With the same
>> engine my almost Volvo sized C5 Tourer averaged that sort of figure with brisk fen
>> driving... 56mpg on a longer run.
>>
Think I was getting around 52 from my C5 and did manage to nurse 60 once, although the Volvo with the same engine was rubbish averaging 44 during my ownership. Similar weights only difference being the 6 speed box in the volvo.
Would have thought that 60mpg would be achievable in the fester (unless you've got a van attached to the back:-))
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I did write 'and rising'
Pay attention at the back!
We zero'ed it when we picked it up!
Pat
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Hope it's the right one Pat. Sounds like the right colour anyway. But you never answered my question: why a Volvo, why not consider other jalopies of the same general class?
Don't worry if there isn't really an answer. A strong scent of the irrational, the frequent intrusion of idées fixes, seem to inform car choice. The trick is to get away with it despite the crazy side. Sounds to me as if you and Ian are wily enough old birds to do that.
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why a Volvo, why not consider other jalopies of the same general class?
As one who's been there and done that, let me assess the field.
- Ford Mondeo: some devotees here, and plenty of space but uncomfortable seats mean it doesn't do it for me.
- Volkswagen Passat: give it brass door handles and it really would be a coffin on wheels. I've tried twice to convince myself a Passat was the logical choice for us and I just couldn't do it.
- Various large French estates: fine for a while until, as a friend of ours is finding out, they're not.
- BMW 5, Mercedes E: very old in Pat's price range and expensive to look after.
- Saab 9-5: probably the V70's closest match for ambiance but can't offer an engine to come close to the D5.
- Toyota Avensis: see Passat. And square it.
Which is, I think, what Pat's discovered, that there's an unshowy feelgoodness about a good Volvo. You can choose one for a perfectly rational tick-list of reasons and still be able to look forward to getting in it at the end of a long day. I've had mine for eleven years and I'm not tired of it yet.
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Agree with most of what you say WDB and indeed I like the V70 myself. Would certainly consider one again despite the myth of their uber-comfortable seats ( I never found them so special but then I'm more sort of "normal" sized than some seem to be...) ;-)
However, if I'd decided that my budget was south of five grand I might be persuaded that buying a Mondeo was likely to get me less of a lived-in example than buying a Volvo at that price.
My personal experience of the lack reliability surprises would count for a lot to me at that sector of the market too.
Anyway, in the end, either would do me nicely though.
I think I might feel slightly morose in a Passat. Can't say why really, I'm sure they're fine if a bit like a supermarket brand wax jacket pretending to be a Barbour. At least a Mondeo doesn't come with tweedy pretensions. It just is what it is, and is jolly good at it.
You could imagine keeping a Volvo for life though I guess.
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>> there's an unshowy feelgoodness about a good Volvo.
Thanks for trying to help Wildebeest, since Pat hasn't said anything. I am convinced though that the irrational is more or less predominant in car choices, whatever people may say or think.
I agree with what you say about Volvos. The only one I've been in that I didn't much like was really an evolved DAF CVT. I do remember an early 244 that was just as you say, unshowy, vigorous and feelgood. Its seats I remember were quite big and hard but there was something good about the way the thing felt. Chunky and all of a piece.
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>> I did write 'and rising'
>>
>> Pay attention at the back!
>>
>> We zero'ed it when we picked it up!
>>
>> Pat
>>
I did pay attention - even when you told us £3700 was the absolute maximum :-)
Not driven a fester with that engine but I would imagine it was quite brisk and quite relaxed
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Sounds like a good one, Pat, and probably a better bet to have to fit a towbar than to buy a car which has already been towing.
Threads about seat comfort always show that humans are all different sizes, even with the same overall height. I can never get comfortable in a BMW 3-series (steering wheel too close if I'm at a comfortable distance from the pedals) but just about everyone else can. I suspect that Volvo take particular care over their seats and driving position so that very few people can't get comfortable.
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All the cars which Wdeb mentioned were considered and the Saab was the only one that came close.
I hate people carrier/bread vans and neither of us is that keen on 4x4's unless it was going to be a Rangerover but at that price it would have been rubbish.
The towing match won as the V70 is heavier and the full leather/heated/memory seats tipped the balance.
When I sat in the first one at Cambridge I was instantly in love with it.
For me, it's understated, unpretentious solid quality.!
I now have to be at work at 3 am to pay the balance of it...;)
Pat
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You're up early Ma'am... go carefully now. Don't get tired.
The Volvo sounds lovely (and I couldn't agree more about people carriers). I might almost be tempted by one myself if I had any money.
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In for 3 to catch the night drivers as they clock off and then home mid morning, back for 3pm to catch the day drivers and night drivers missed this morning as they clock on tonight.
Long day but pays well and the V70 is the incentive I need!
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Wed 20 Nov 13 at 02:24
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I love the V70 Pat.
I ran one as a banger for quite a long time; I found that most faults were pretty easy to fix.
I've still got the dealer EOBDII diagnostic software for it - its called VADIS. Damned useful if you'll fix / maintain the vehicle yourself.
I'd have to ship you a CD, but if you want it....
Also I found it pretty much needed a cheap disposable laptop that you could balance on the engine bay / door step without worrying about it.
[I do not vouch for the CD's heritage].
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Yes please Mark!!!
Talk later.
Pat
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You need to check what model year you have Pat. Vadis works up to model year 2005 after that Vadis was replaced by Vida/DiCE.
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Yes indeed, congrats on the purchase. Please keep a running commentary on it for the benefit of the rest of us who would secretly be interested in running an older one too!
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Thanks gmac, ours was first registered 29/12/05 so do you know how I would find out?
Will do Baz!
Pat
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en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Vehicle_Identification_Numbers_(VIN_codes)/Volvo/VIN_Codes
Suggests the 10th character of your VIN will be 5 or 6, which will be the model year.
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I need to be sure before I ring Ian and tell him......is this the AWD model? :)
Vin Code:YV1SW714162553978
If it is you will have made us very happy Manatee!
Pat
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Pat this is the result with your VIN in the online decoder I use..
www.vindecoder.net/?vin=YV1SW714162553978&submit=Decode
It seems to think where you have 1416 in the middle it should be 1476 but details still look correct.
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Pat, AWD V70s were badged as "Cross Country", later XC70, and are visibly taller than FWD V70s with extra protective plastic trim around the doors and bumpers.
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Thanks...perhaps I won't make that phone call then..it's been a long day!
Pat
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Dunno Gromit, I think there were some standard V70s with AWD too. I think I saw some for sale when I was researching the car some years ago for my sister (now on her second XC70 as it happens).
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Surely a look underneath will reveal all?
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There was a "V70 AWD" but I think it had been quietly dropped by the time of the MY05 facelift - AWD without the cosmetics presumably ticking the wrong box for most buyers. I'll be amazed if Pat's car is one.
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It won't be an AWD... unless the specialist dealer has dropped a huge clanger not spotting this and asking a premium price.
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A guy I kinow has a new V70 and likes it very much. Says he has trouble parking it in tight spaces though. Not the size of it as such but the amount of lock on the steering.
The LEC has a lock like a taxi.
( don't, just don't start on the Dusseldorf tack ! )
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I've got to ask, what is this LEC you keep referring to? Some kind of van? Apologies, I really should know.
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>> Some kind of
>> van?
Yees, just about sums it up really. A German one.
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...but easier to park than a Volvo, true. Mine's a foot long
er than the S60 but will go into most spaces at the first attempt. Always makes me smile when I see another Volvo driver doing the second-move correction as they reverse into a space. (You really don't want to be reversing out with so little scope to turn the front wheels.)
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LEC - "Large Estate Car"
Fell into use on here so the proletariat don't get so tetchy and sniffy when those of us with Merc E Class estates happen to occasionally mention them in the passing.
;-)
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There was me thinking it was some kind of Limited Edition Merc or van-related thing! ha ha!
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>> AWD without the cosmetics presumably ticking the wrong box
>> for most buyers.
>>
Said a mouthful there, bud. I'm the opposite, I like the idea of the anonymous Mazda 6 2.3 AWD wagon. But can't stomach the fuel consumption.
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>>Surely a look underneath will reveal all? <<
It will on Saturday, I'm just copying the details on the receipt for the deposit.
Pat
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There is a non-blinged V70 AWD as WDB hints... like this...
www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/volvo-v70-2001/volvo-v70-awd_02.jpg
I do business each week with a guy who runs a dark met blue one just like that. Good choice as he deals in big stuff and operates out in the wilds.
As AC says it has a nice understated look.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 20 Nov 13 at 13:17
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I looked hard at a late XC70 as an alternative to the Outlander. I tinned out of it after a bit of research - I got the impression that it's common for the drive to the rear to fail expensively at fairly moderate mileage, and by implication not an unusual fault on cars for sale out of warranty. So perhaps don't feel too disappointed if it's the FWD one you thought you were buying.
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With all due respect to Pat and Ian, they seem to prove my theory about the essential irrationality of car purchasers by not knowing, apparently, whether the jalopy they have bought and test-driven has AWD or not. It's beyond belief to me that car savvy people like them could have cast an eye over a vehicle they wanted without spotting that there were drive shafts at both ends...
I wouldn't claim to be very different. I might easily have a prejudice or idée fixe that would influence my own choice. But I don't think I would fail to notice something like that.
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Well AC, I think we did pretty well overall.
We managed to discount 6 previous lemons, so I can live with missing an advantage like AWD, if indeed it does prove to present, which I don't think it will.
Pat
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>> Well AC, I think we did pretty well overall.
I think you did right to buy from a dealer, and a specialist at that, who presumably has a reputation to think about. They aren't especially reliable as far as I know, and expensive to fix. Buying privately or from the kind of dealer who doesn't stand behind it could be a bad experience.
That said, I think I mentioned not long ago, having just seen my brother for the first time in a while, that he was running a 55 plate V70 D5. It's chipped to 200 bhp, and does 45mpg on a motorway run. He's a mechanic, or was, and is very happy with it. And it's done over 200,000 miles.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 20 Nov 13 at 14:26
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>> I think we did pretty well overall.
Certainly seems that you did. You rejected five others for faults, and chose one that seemed and no doubt was solid and honest. I don't see anything wrong with your reasoning or selection process. I am pretty hopeless at that sort of thing myself, impatient and impulsive. It has often led to trouble.
All I'm saying is that you didn't notice something that I would most likely have noticed. Irrationality is present in both cases, but in different areas. Yours may well be preferable to mine. When I said 'with all due respect' I really meant it, not just as cover for a snide comment. The comment wasn't snide.
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As in the picture posted upthread, the V70 AWD had a badge on the boot saying, er, AWD. I expect that would be the easiest thing to spot on inspecting the car. Pat, I'm sure, would have spotted that. I'm with those who think it probably isn't one of these rarities.
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AC - hair on - now!
}:---)
I don't think they 'missed' anything. It wouldn't have occurred to them - as it wouldn't to me - to expect that this car was anything but the standard FWD model. Nothing in their inspection or test drive suggested otherwise. Only the question over model years and diagnostic CDs seems to have raised the faint possibility and left Pat to realize there was a model she hadn't known she wasn't buying. Nothing at all to fret about.
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>> Nothing at all to fret about.
Of course not. I'm not fretting and I don't suppose Pat is. I was just talking about something that interests me.
We sometimes get irritable or upset here, but there's a fair amount of calm discussion after all.
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Nothing about AWD on the dealer photo of what I surmise Pat has bought. Won't link to it unless Pat says so...
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Feel free NIL, I see it has now migrated to the 'sold' section of the website!
www.nicholasfletcherltd.co.uk/cars/volvo/v70/d5se/5638/20
In fact, here it is.
Pat
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Very nice. Glad to see the leather came free as well. :)
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Good choice Pat, looks like a very clean straight car.
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Beat me to it! Looks great.
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See you at Newark Antiques fair soon?
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Newark?
Sandringham of course, only the best!
Pat
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We stood at Newark for a good many years.
Had to keep a wary eye for the Irish travellers who would nick anything if one's back was turned.
The final straw was when we had three items nicked in one fair - we packed it in then.
Lass behind us had a serious wodge of readies stolen from under her table probably by a junior oik crawling under, while senior oik did the detraction.
The coppers used to say you could follow a trail every two months from Holyhead to Newark, marked out by the number of thefts!
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A friend rang me some years ago to see if I fancied the Newark autojumble. We went in his 1926 Fiat open two seater. By 'eck, it was cold ! November, I think.
We were a week out....he should have gone to ...........etc !
Ted
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Nice car Pat.
Hope you treble the mileage on it.
P.S. you do know that D5 with the silver engine cover has a (whisper it) DPF that does not use an additive.
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I think Ian knows!
He kept telling me to look for the black engine cover...and then he drove this one!
But he's not driving it tomorrow, I am:)
We've arranged to collect it at 9am which means leaving here by 6.30am but I have AC/DC Live at the River Plate and a heated, comfy seat to look forward to!
...and a Fiesta disappearing into the distance in the rear view mirror.
I can't wait.
Pat
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After a very early start, with excitement preventing me from sleeping until my alarm, finally I got my hands on our new (to us) 55 reg Volvo V70.
Good job for us it’s a big car, it needed to be to contain my grin as I sorted out the seat and enjoyed the warmth of its heated leather embrace.
So many buttons to play with, but first job was to find our way out of Somercotes and find some fuel, so that ruled out the M1.
We decided to go across Mansfield toward Newark. Getting in and out of the filling station proved easier than expected as, despite being a big bus, the Volvo is more compact feeling than the Mondeo. She’s light on her feet too, handling the twists and turns of the road to Newark with a confidence and security the Mondeo never provided in quite the same way.
Something else the Mondeo never provided was a soundtrack quite like this one. Time and again I had to open the taps in third gear leaving village speed limits. This action produces a pleasing growl and some quite rapid scenery movement.
More pleasing still is the output from the many speakered Dolby assisted stereo. I had to get hubby Ian off the phone to try it properly, but it was worth the effort. The last time AC/DC sounded that good we were at Wembley together!
Just when the combination of comfort, performance and audio seemed almost perfect, I found the cherry atop the cake.
A bit of twiddling with the buttons produced an average MPG readout on the dash, which suggests the Volvo is using less diesel than the Fiesta.
57.6 from the barge, versus a steady 52.2 from the tiddler was not what we expected.
Ian dropped the Volvo figures a touch, because he’s got big feet, but the fuel economy is still better than anything the Mondeo ever returned.
As a precautionary measure the Fiesta will be returning to the dealer Monday to make sure there’s nothing untoward going on.
I was surprised at how well it carries 5th gear even down to well below 40mph and how easily it drives.
Only one small point to criticise….nowhere to put ‘stuff’ in the dashboard or console. We always kept Euro’s, caravan swipe card and keys in the Mondeo dash, but will have to find a new home for a few things but we do have 3 cup holders plus two fold out ones for the back seat passengers we never have!
I love it to bits and it makes all the extra work I’ll be doing between now and Christmas worthwhile!
Pat
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>>
>> Only one small point to criticise….nowhere to put ‘stuff’ in the dashboard or console. We
>> always kept Euro’s, caravan swipe card and keys in the Mondeo dash, but will have
>> to find a new home for a few things but we do have 3 cup
>> holders plus two fold out ones for the back seat passengers we never have!
May I suggest one - or more - of these:-
tinyurl.com/kua5ldy Other sticky mats are available.
Didn't Simon Khoo sell these at one time?
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My wife's V50 has the five pot 170ish bhp engine....it does sound very chunky..
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>> Only one small point to criticise….nowhere to put ‘stuff’ in the dashboard or console. We
>> always kept Euro’s, caravan swipe card and keys in the Mondeo dash, but will have
>> to find a new home for a few things but we do have 3 cup
>> holders plus two fold out ones for the back seat passengers we never have!
>>
Take the two extra cupholders out of the centre console (under the roller cover) behind the gearstick. It's just a plugin and makes a useful storage space or have you not discovered the storage under the two cupholders for the rear passengers. That's a useful bin too.
Sounds like you're not trying at 57+mpg AC will be along calling you a mimser if you keep those numbers up.
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>> AC will be along calling you a mimser if you keep those numbers up.
I'm sure, or almost sure, that Pat never mimses. Mimsing isn't the same as going fairly gently.
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My FiL got a BMW 328 down to 12mpg on a test drive. The salesman was wincing I would imagine..
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>> My FiL got a BMW 328 down to 12mpg on a test drive. The salesman
>> was wincing I would imagine..
I was testing a potential purchase and I informed the seller I'd want to take it to the red line, he didn't object. So I dropped it into second at about 40 and floored it. A little squeak came from the passenger side, may have been his buttocks rubbing together.
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Busy weekend meant I missed this, Pat. Thanks for letting us know, and I hope it continues to please as much as mine has. I didn't mention the engine before, did I? Four cylinders will always sound rather characterless from now on.
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It's one of those sounds which will always make me grin!
Like V8 scania engine on a cold morning.
The first bird song of dawn
An angry sea crashing on rocks
Bacon sizzling in a pan.
Pat
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Nice to see someone genuinely enjoying their car, Pat! Good choice of tunes too...
My FIL has had Volvos for a number of years, just changed a 2005 ish 2.4T V70 in which he did 100k for a nearly new D5. He does report that a) it goes like stink and b) hardly seems to use any diesel compared to the petrol before. There were various bits and pieces done on the old one (expensive at dealer prices!), but it never let him down. His only complaint really was the lack of steering lock (compared to a 940 RWD it replaced!)
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Well, I've just been to work at two different depots which was a 40 mile round trip on local roads I know well...I'm even more thrilled with it now!
The Mondoe was nice but a bit like a big, overgrown clumsy lump. The V70 is big, nimble, and so easy to drive hard.
It hangs on to the muddy Fen roads and corners without a twitch.
The downside is the average fuel consumption has now dropped to a (still) healthy 47.9mpg, but well worth the drop to drive it like it begs to be driven.
Pat
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>>His only complaint really was the lack of steering lock (compared to a 940 RWD it replaced!)
The old 700 and 900 had the engine lengthways with the gearbox at the back whereas the V70 has it sideways with the gearbox on the side. There just isn't as much space for the engineers to play with.
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>> >>His only complaint really was the lack of steering lock (compared to a 940 RWD
>> it replaced!)
>>
>> The old 700 and 900 had the engine lengthways with the gearbox at the back
>> whereas the V70 has it sideways with the gearbox on the side. There just isn't
>> as much space for the engineers to play with.
Poor steering lock tends to be a feature of FWD cars, regardless of the crankshaft orientation.
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Car conundrum - PeterS
