This afternoon I changed the oil and filter on my MkI Focus. After discussions here I had considered sucking the oil out with a Pela but the filter is where the difficulties are.
So up on the ramps it was. Drain plug out and sump drained. Next on to the filter.
The filter is not even visible from above so under the car I went. There were two places I could get a hand up to the filter and luckily managed to loosen it without resorting to tools. Then the fun started.
There isn't enough room to get a container just under the filter so I guessed where the oil would end up on the ground, put the old washing up bowl I was using as a drain tray there, and unscrewed the filter.
All the oil ran down the block, along the block/sump joint, dripped onto the boot of the drive shaft, then onto the chassis before dripping into the drain tray.
As I lay there watching it making a mess everywhere I thought there must be a better way.
So what do other manufacturers do? Do they consider the filter change at design stage or are you expected just to make a big mess and clean it up afterwards?
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Next time, go to National or somewhere, and see how they do it.
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Bah! Should have bought a BMW :-P Nice simple filter element, no mess at all.
The 2 VAG engines i've got use the traditional tin oil filters, but in both cases the filters are mounted for easy access and clear space vertically below to drain straight into a sturdy cat litter tray or whatever.
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One of the many virtues of the Skoda Estelle was that the oil filter was easily accessible from above. All you had to do was open the engine lid and lean in. The drain plug was nearly as easy to get at, but for that you did have to lie or crouch on the ground. A bit too easy really, as someone once stole the drain plug from an Estelle of mine in a London main road, letting all the oil out onto the road. Some people are so vile, petty and baboon-like that one would quite enjoy seeing them tortured a bit.
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>>someone once stole the drain plug from an Estelle of mine<<
I've been around a bit, like (know wot I mean) - no one nicks blimmin drain plugs matey,
unless it was made of some precious metal - you didn't tighten the thing up properly,
or someone owed you 'a favour', like.
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>> no one nicks blimmin drain plugs matey,
That's what I would have thought. Of course I had tightened it properly, and I don't make a habit of rolling in the gutter with toerags. It was a bit of a mystery.
If it was going to work loose because not tightened, it wouldn't have come out when the car was parked, would it?
I agree about recent Fords being poor in this respect. My Escort needed to have the o/s front wheel taken off to get at the filter without a pit or lift.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 7 Jun 10 at 20:54
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>> I agree about recent Fords being poor in this respect. My Escort needed to have
>> the o/s front wheel taken off to get at the filter without a pit or
>> lift.
I can change the oil filter on my escort on axle stands but it is a bit of a stretch, someone with shorter arms couldn't do it like that. If I do need to change the oil again I might try going in under the wheel arch could be a little easier and less likely to end up with oil on my head!
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The Lancer is good, access wise, as long as you can get under the car
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As usual best go German MB or BMW or Japanese for sensible design..maybe Fords don't expect to have more than a couple of oil changes on the one engine..;)
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Both our current model Citroen diesels have filter elements in housings facing upwards easily reached next to the battery.... with a Pela no need to go underneath at all and zero mess.
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engines are designed in a different room to the guys designing the engine bay
one set of guys go in a real pub
the other lot drink wine in trendy winey bars
they never meet
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Try an MX5, you need to get your left hand behind the manifold.
FIL had a Volvo 360. You couldn't reach the oil filter from below, but couldn't extricate it from above. A case of unscrewing it from above, wedge it somewhere and then crawl underneath and wiggle it out.
Anyone else have an old BL 'B' series with the standing oil filter? It screwed on the fitting with the open end facing down. I leave it to your imagination!
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>> Anyone else have an old BL 'B' series with the standing oil filter? It screwed
>> on the fitting with the open end facing down. I leave it to your imagination!
The Pug104 was similar; the filter was in a broadly conventional position but effectively on top as the power unit was canted 75degrees to the rear. The filter was also a tight fit against the adjacent alternator mounting. On at least one occasion I had a pattern filter which was slightly wider than OEM or had its mounting off centre so it was impossible to get the last leakproofing quarter turn on it.
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>> The Pug104 was similar; the filter was in a broadly conventional position but effectively on
>> top as the power unit was canted 75degrees to the rear.
Pug 205 GTI's oil filters pointed towards the front of the car, fairly easy to get to....
... but... the 1.9's had an oilcooler housing between the block and filter, all good still, unless the car had had a slight knock, where the front panel was pushed back.... in that case there wasn't enough clearance to unscrew the filter!
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Fenlander: with a Pela no need to go underneath at all and zero mess.
Don't do that with a 1.6 HDi FL - there is a Citroen tech bulletin against that - there is a baffle or summat in the sump that prevents full evacuation with a sucker, leaving the gunky residue that then kanckers the turbo....
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Good call Richard... actually the 1.6HDi will be dealer serviced 'till it goes after 3yrs. However I don't believe all that bumph Citroen put out about the 1.6 related to the old oil residue contaminating the new oil. I reckon the engine is marginal on lubrication for the turbo and they are setting a lot of get-out traps for the unwary owner when the turbo fails just within warranty.
I will keep to the rules for the warranty/lease purposes but would ignore them if the car was under my own care/responsibility.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 7 Jun 10 at 22:08
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The Vit diesel is a bit of a pain. OK, you can see and touch it fine but you can't actually get a hand round it. Neither can you get a chain or strap wrench round it. So, it's off underneath with the old ' Isle of Man ' gripper. The one with 3 legs which tighten round the filter from it's end.
By then you're so far from the sodding thing that you have to use it on the end of a 2ft extension with a ratchet. Even then it only turns about a half inch before a leg hits the block !
You can only tighten the new one with same tool, with a rag to protect the new filter.
If you do it by hand, it's not tight enough and starts to leak after a couple of weeks.
The Jowett's filter is slap bang on top of the engine, a cartridge, of course. It does, however, have a very clever feature. Loosen a bolt in the filter housing and a gallery is opened, letting the oil drain back into the sump.
A lot of access problems were caused by makers carrying engines forward from RWD days to transverse, with the fornerly accessible filter disappearing round the back !
Ted
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>> Escort needed to have the o/s front wheel taken off to get at the filter
>> I can change the oil filter on my escort on axle stands but it is a bit of a stretch
On mine (1.8 zetec petrol) I can just roll up my sleeve, reach down from the top, unscrew the filter, tip it upright to keep the oil in and guide it up around the various pipes and hoses until I've lifted it free and clear of the engine. A bit of paper towel to clean up around the filter mounting, a dab of new oil on the new filter and refitting is, as they say, the reverse of removal.
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Mon 7 Jun 10 at 22:43
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As my Focus is a 1.8 Zetec Petrol I went and had another try from above. The alternator is just above the filter and the inlet manifold also gets in the way. I could just about touch the filter with the ends of my fingers but there is no way I could have gripped it enough to turn it or lift it out upwards.
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>>>>Don't do that with a 1.6 HDi FL - there is a Citroen tech bulletin against that - there is a baffle or summat in the sump <<<
I thought the real reason was to allow all the 'ends' of the plastic dipsticks to come out at oil change time!
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>> All the oil ran down the block, along the block/sump joint, dripped onto the boot
>> of the drive shaft, then onto the chassis before dripping into the drain tray.
>>
You should have caught most of it with your sleeve like the rest of us unlucky amateurs.
No car designer is ever going to service his/her own car, is he/she?
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I want to know who designed oil, in its last thin long trickle, to blow in a gentle breeze at 90 degrees and miss the oil catcher.
Always.
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>> I want to know who designed oil, in its last thin long trickle, to blow
>> in a gentle breeze at 90 degrees and miss the oil catcher.
>>
>> Always.
>>
Or who put the filler cap on the Mondeo a couple of inches from the timing belt, so the same puff of wind blows the last trickle of oil from the can under the cover, giving you nightmares about what will happen when you next turn the key.
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>> You should have caught most of it with your sleeve like the rest of us unlucky amateurs.
Well to be honest the first flow did go down my sleeve all the way to my armpit.
A slight miscalculation I chose to leave out of the OP.
And the trip to warm the oil up was too long - the oil was definitely warmer than I really wanted!
Last edited by: crocks on Mon 7 Jun 10 at 23:33
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>> >>
>> >> All the oil ran down the block, along the block/sump joint, dripped onto the
>> boot
>> >> of the drive shaft, then onto the chassis before dripping into the drain tray.
blimey your driveway must look like Florida beach at the mo then?
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>> So what do other manufacturers do? Do they consider the filter change at design stage
>> or are you expected just to make a big mess and clean it up afterwards?
With all manufacturers, the design has to be a compromise between the space requirements of all of the parts in any particular area. Gone are the days of minimal specifications and lots of spare space.
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Then there was the PSA XUD diesel combined dipstick holder and oil filler. Great fun when you've just done an oil change and you have to keep putting it back together to get an accurate dipstick reading, then take it all out against to add another 1/2 litre...! At least the filter and sump pulg were easy to get to and not hidden behind multiple plastic trays and shields!
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Compare a W123 MB. I could change the oil and filter in that wearing a suit. Warm the oil, pop one wheel up on a kerb, undo the sump let it all drain out. Cartridge filter, sited on the very top of the engine so pop the lid off, pull out the cartridge drop in the new one. All finished in under 5 minutes including refilling.
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Some awkward filter locations have arisen because of a change in engine orientation relative to the car - usually when a new model wears its successor's engine.
As an example, the OHV engine fitted to the Citroën CX was a carry-over from the DS. The latter had its engine mounted longitudinally 'north-south' - with the oil filter reasonably accessible from the side.
They turned the engine 'east-west' in the CX, resulting in an oil filter at the back of the engine facing towards the rear :-( A real pain in the whatsit for a DIY oil change!
No excuse for more modern stuff, though :-(
Last edited by: Old Sock on Tue 8 Jun 10 at 14:22
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>> As an example, the OHV engine fitted to the Citroën CX was a carry-over from
>> the DS. The latter had its engine mounted longitudinally 'north-south' - with the oil filter
>> reasonably accessible from the side.
Not on my 2 DS, a 23 carb and a Super 5. The oil filter lived in the floor of the sump ...
"The oil filter is an internal unit held in place behind a screen and a plate, which in turn are behind a cover plate on the bottom of the sump."
www.citroen-restoration.co.uk/ds/item.php?category=4 - last couple of pics.
(not me or my car)
Which DS are you thinking of?
Last edited by: hawkeye on Tue 8 Jun 10 at 21:17
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...oil filter in the sump...
This links mentions a GM '2.5 liter' engine which has this arrangement.
www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/93-2R1.pdf
I'm sure there's at least one more fairly common car in the UK which had this arrangement.
I seem to recall servicing one in the late 1970s.
Any idea what it might have been?
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Why don't manufacturers simply make engines like the American Northstar.
It can go 100,000 miles before a service.
One could potentially own and sell their car without ever going into the dealer or tinkering around at home.
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It still needed oil changes, but after about 40,000 miles it doesent. Thats because it consumes over a litre of oil per 1000 miles.
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Thanks for all the replies.
It seems that some cars are designed better than the Focus but a lot are much worse.
If only there was a lip under the filter then some type of funnel and pipe arrangement could be fashioned to prevent the mess.
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Loosen the oil filter a little, then fit a supermarket carrier bag over it.
Unscrew and remove the filter.
With a bit of care, most of the oil in the filter will end up in the bag.
An extra tip, make sure the bag doesn't have holes in the bottom!
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Drain the injun oil after removing filler cap & dippy,
Loosen el filter then poke a screwdriver through the bottom, let it drain b4 removing the critter.
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Designing a car for an oil filter change - FotheringtonTomas
