As part of choosing my next company car I have just handed back a BMW 318d GT. Thought I'd pass my opinion on for what it's worth.
Initial impression looks good in black, younger son agreed, however buth wife & daughter took the same line - "too aggressive looking".
However, all agreed interior was great, well up to the current 2010 3 series with far more space, clear instruments nice gadgetry.
So what was it like to drive? Only my son & I actually drove it but we both agreed that comfort, ride * general driving experience all very good even if not quite as good as my current car round the twisty bits.
Overall then huge amount of space, very quiet, relatively economical over 270 miles, very comfortable, very well specced in standard form
Will I get one, unlikely as we don't need the space as all the kids have flown the nest and the extra expense over the 3 series saloon and the slight drop in the handling probably make the 3 series saloon which I test next weekend a more likely choice.
BTW we need to update the model list for BMW on the topic options
Still worth testing & a very enjoyable car if I was 10 years younger with 3 teenage kids.
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Good stuff, CD - thanks for contributing. It's a car that interests me too - I've always rather liked the big 5 GT, despite its looks, because it's one of those rare cars that could take four of me, and the 3 GT looks like it may be another. They were in use round here ferrying performers and VIPs to the summer arts festival, but I can't remember seeing one on the road since then.
Part of me, as Humph rightly suspects, would like something that's less stodgy to drive than the LEC, but I couldn't afford to compromise too much on space as the Beestlings approach teenagerdom; one already has size 9 feet. What I do wonder, though, is how close in size and usefulness this is to the 5 estate. One of those, I suspect, may be better to drive and a better resale prospect. Perhaps I'll just have to try them both.
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So, to play devil's advocate - what's with specifying a sporty derivative with a weedy engine ?
OK, so the UK tax regime has driven BMW to replacing beautiful sixes with twin turbo 4s but anything less than a 32x implies 'I bought the image but not the engine' to me....
Maybe controversial, they'll be offering diesel convertibles for penny pinching poseurs soon - oh, too late ;-)
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>> 'I bought the image but not
>> the engine' to me....
Yep. That's all most people want out of a BMW. Image. Only nerds like us know the difference and suck our teeth. To the vast majority of the herd BMW is, well, The Ultimate Driving Machine. Therefore if I buy one I am succesful and have good taste and plenty money, I must be admired. Various engine options are kind of irrelevant to those people.
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Maybe I'm being naive but I'm not convinced that one's car leads directly to personal admiration. My real friends don't seem to care much what I drive now or have driven before and I certainly don't choose to categorise or filter who I associate with on the basis of their personal transport choices.
Shoes however, now that's a different matter !
;-)
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>> So, to play devil's advocate - what's with specifying a sporty derivative with a weedy
>> engine
First that was a test car possibly not the engine I will take
Second the 318d in my current car is fast enough for me and 60+ mpg is nice to have
Third the 318 saloon handles as well as or better than most non BMWs
Fourth I am secure enough to make my own choices without the Jeremy Clarkson type extension
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>>
>> Fourth I am secure enough to make my own choices without the Jeremy Clarkson type
>> extension
>>
I'd contend that it's not a "Jeremy Clarkson type extension" but the exact opposite, in choosing a BMW with a weedy engine you are stating a preference for style over substance....
I too am secure, if I can afford a proper BMW then it will have a proper 6 cylinder engine in it, otherwise I cannot afford one and I will buy (say) a Golf, I do not feel the need to use my car to portray an image either.
Clearly this is a huge market for BMW as more and more tax-dodger derivatives appear to satiate the image-conscious. They are therefore a successful company but (IMHO of course) dilute their core brand in doing so. Probably not a problem to shareholders right now though.
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Well, y'see that's where I'd ( slightly ) disagree i'm afraid. In a straight choice between a 3 series and a Golf I'd be tempted to go for the BMW with whatever engine I could afford / justify/ get someone else to fund. Purely and simply because I'd prefer RWD to FWD. Nothing to do with badges or "image".
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>> Well, y'see that's where I'd ( slightly ) disagree i'm afraid. In a straight choice
>> between a 3 series and a Golf I'd be tempted to go for the BMW
>> with whatever engine I could afford / justify/ get someone else to fund. Purely and
>> simply because I'd prefer RWD to FWD. Nothing to do with badges or "image".
>>
As would I, but in my current market a Golf costs (say) GBP20K and a basic BMW 320i around GBP35K and more like GBP50K with a decent 6 cylinder engine. I-too prefer RWD but at the strangled power outputs of a 318i/d I suspect it's less of a concern ?
Our Golf is a cheap(ish) runaround, does about 5K Miles a year as we fly long distances and use public transport into the city or even (heaven forbid) walk and cycle places locally. Horses for courses really.
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>> I'd contend that it's not a "Jeremy Clarkson type extension" but the exact opposite, in
>> choosing a BMW with a weedy engine you are stating a preference for style over
>> substance....
>>
By referring to the 318d engine as a "weedy" engine you sound as pompous as JC
It still does 0-60, in the saloon, in 9 seconds which is faster than the majority of cars on the road if that's important to you
The car is still very comfortable, very well equipped and very pleasant to drive whether on the motorway or on twisty roads. All of which makes it a choice of substance not style, and thats not counting the minimal company car tax and 60+mpg on many journeys and an average around 51 mpg over the last 8 months.
If you need to have the fastest car around, fine but unless you are in a Veyron or similar there is always somebody faster out there, that doesn't bother me but obviously bothers you. Feel free to choose whatever you want, for what I want, a 318 or 320 diesel in a BMW saloon will do me fine.
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>> Feel free to choose whatever you want, for what I want,
>> a 318 or 320 diesel in a BMW saloon will do me fine.
>>
>>
Then I suspect you are BMW's 'core market' in the UK nowadays. I see they've launched a 2WD X5 too.
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Not just BMW's core market, all the main manufacturers have various levels of performance in their diesel range, I would suspect if you check VW/Audi figures that they probably sell far more "lower" powered versions of their 2.0 diesels than they do top end versions.
Two reasons
1 that's how the company car market plays.
2 a lot of people want reasonable performance without having to have the fastest diesel on the block, let's face it of performance was really important, how many people would have a diesel
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>> let's face it of performance was really important, how many people would
>> have a diesel
>>
That would depend entirely on what kind of performance you want.
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When I bought the 330 my budget was £10k. I also considered a 350Z but circumstances dictated the former. If it was to be a BMW then it absolutely had to be a 6cyl, although I was going to buy an MX5 until I found out I could not legally fit a tow bar.
In an ideal world my next BM would have the 4.0 V8, but I am pretty certain it is not available in 3 series estate form, and much better informed people than I on this forum say that the 335 is not as reliable as the 330. A few people I know have 320d's as company cars and seem happy with them. Of course they would prefer 6 cyl 330d's, but their fleet managers do not offer them. Even if they did they may prefer the 4cyl for tax reasons.
Only when running vehicles privately have we the luxury to pick & choose anything that catches our eye, within budget of course. I think the BM 6cyl petrol is an absolute cracker, but could be tempted by a diesel 6 in either an Audi or BM if only for the huge low down torque. Long may high fuel prices continue to allow people like me to own a car which would otherwise probably be beyond my budget.
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>> >> let's face it of performance was really important, how many people would
>> >> have a diesel
>> >>
>>
>> That would depend entirely on what kind of performance you want.
>>
Exactly. I buy a diesel because of it its performance. Uh oh, thread drift alert!
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OK, so the UK tax regime has driven BMW to replacing beautiful sixes with twin turbo 4s...
Is BMW's engineering strategy, probably developed over a decade or more, really decided in a basement office in Whitehall? Or has a multinational car company looked at long-term, global trends in fuel prices, gauged the consumers' reluctance to consume more than necessary (at least on paper) and made a long-term, global decision that fuel-efficient engines are the only things that will sell in the volumes it needs to stay in business?
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Tue 22 Oct 13 at 20:00
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A guy in the village has a the latest shape 3 series - it has a 2.0 diesel - economy version....I'm sure he sees me glaze over when he brags about 60 mpg at a constant 56 on the A55 - Buy a skinny latte Golf...man and machine in perfect dis-harmony....What is the point.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Dec 13 at 01:06
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>>....What is the point.
Well, for a counter point, for me anyway, the handling and feel of a car are just as important as its outright power and top speed.
I really couldn't give a toss about the badges, but I set high store by how pleasing a car is to drive and for me anyway, a 3 series would outscore a Golf any day when fitted with comparable engines.
That's not to deny that a more powerful 3 series wouldn't be more pleasant again of course.
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>Well, for a counter point, for me anyway, the handling and feel of a car are just as important as its outright power..
Curiously, smaller diesels may be a better option if you're not beating up and down the autobahn.
I had a courtesy XF 3.0D S for a few days while my XJ was waiting for new boots and although, overall, it is a very good car it did have one disappointing trait. It is impossible to pull away from a standstill smoothly but smartly eg. at roundabouts.
It is either smooth and sedate or scalded cat. I couldn't find any in-between.
The XF 2.2D I was given last time was easier on the neck muscles.
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>
>> It is either smooth and sedate or scalded cat. I couldn't find any in-between.
That'll do me batman.
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Autos or manuals Kevin? Diesel manuals can, I more than agree be a bit lumpy from rest. Autos are usually better.
I drove a Panamera diesel recently. ( auto ) I wanted to hate it because it was a diesel Porsche and its looks aren't to everyone's tastes.
To my surprise it was really really nice to drive. As in brilliant actually. Handling superb and gobs of torque. More than enough power and some to spare for British roads.
Kind of want one...
;-)
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>Autos or manuals Kevin?
Both autos.
You'd like the XF Sportbrake Humph, much more stylish interior than the teutonic LEC.
Your Italian contacts would love it.
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Certainly look nice. Someone I know has a saloon XF and likes it very much. I want to remember that his gear knob goes up and down? That might annoy me for a while anyway !
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>I want to remember that his gear knob goes up and down? That might annoy me for a while anyway !
I won't comment on what his knob does but the gear 'selector' in an XF does indeed go up and down and has to be rotated to select PRND etc.
I found it annoying at first because I was looking down at the dial to see what I was selecting until I twigged that it's position is shown on the instrument binacle.
An XFR will probably be my next car.
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Amazing the hatred that BMW still arouses here from some quarters, unless it happens to be fitted with the right engine, even the buyer seems to be suspect in some way.
As alluded to above, the 4 cyl Diesels even the smaller petrols have their rightful place, they'll run all day on the motorway at well above legal speeds, what would a 6 pot do better other than accelerate faster and sound much better but you can't really appreciate that at a heavily used motorway cruise in three lanes of traffic.
The 6+ pot thrust would be better for open road use and overtaking, but unless the driver is competent its wasted in the hands of most.
If you're cruising the roads among all the other traffic in business or a long commute the 6 pot won't get you there any faster and it will have cost most users a good bit more in all respects.
Different for those who own their own cars and don't use them for business mileage or as people carriers, they can buy what they want over what they need, hence Legacylad myself and few others prefer something we like for its own sake, other peoples opinions of our choices outside our own families do not count.
I too prefer to drive RWD, though good full time 4WD is best, plus BMW's and proper MB's benefit from really nice auto boxes if thats your thing.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Wed 23 Oct 13 at 11:17
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Just checked, a 318d has 143bhp, 0-60 in 9 secs and a top speed of 132 mph. I don't immediately think of that as a slug.
Probably the same mentality as those who "support" a particular football team and can't bear to even think anything positive about the ones they don't support.
Funny critters humans aren't we?
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I would swap my 6 cyl 330 for a 4cyl 328GT in the blink of an eye. Still RWD, more economical, more practical, nice looking, what's not to like. I would equally be happy to swap for the 320d GT. So long as the change was at very little cost I would be delighted to run a new 4cyl Beemer.
Last edited by: legacylad on Wed 23 Oct 13 at 12:16
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Regarding the BMW/image thing, there's a previous model 3 series near me with a personal plate, 'V6 xxx'. I can't get my head round that :)
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4th unscheduled dealer visit in 18 months soon for my 320d, this time to investigate what sounds horribly like a timing chain rattle. This is a common fault on the N47 engine, and is an engine out job if it is what I think it is.
Last edited by: DP on Wed 23 Oct 13 at 16:22
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you'll not be buying this at lease end then?
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The V6... plate may have been transferred from something else, of course. There's an E-class taxi (yes, Avant, I know) round here with a plate beginning S60... (My S60 came with a free badge to that effect; I didn't feel the need for a special number plate too.)
But BMWs in general have become respectable - except the X5 and X6, of course; they're still strictly for the don't-care brigade. But I'd have a 5, a 3GT, maybe even a 1 if it did the job I wanted it for.
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>>But BMWs in general have become respectable...
Tee Hee WDB ! That is such a "darn sarf" remark ! Honestly not poking fun at you personally, but those of us from other than the South East mainly think just being able to run a half decent car is fairly "respectable" irrespective, ( if you'll forgive the almost pun ) of its brand or badge.
I agree with you re X6s though. not quite sure what they're for. X5s on the other hand seem pretty good at being large useable 4x4s.
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>> The V6... plate may have been transferred from something else, of course.
Sure, but why? Presumably he's chosen it because of the engine connotation. But anyone half interested in motors knows that the BMW sixes are in-liners, specifically chosen over the V layout because of their inherent smoothness despite the cost in terms of space efficiency.
Is he being ironic? Or dim? Or am I being dim? Confused :)
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Sure, but why?
Scottish owner, perhaps? "Ah've peed for it and Ah'm damn well gonnae use it."
};---)
Or not transferred at all but simply bought out of ignorance - plenty of proud owners know nothing of the mechanical features of their cars. My F-in-L argued long and hard that his first Mondeo, after a succession of Sierras, must also be RWD. (Unless perhaps they'd made one specially for him; given his habit of walking into his Ford dealer every three years, asking "How much?" and writing a cheque, he was arguably entitled to it.)
Humph, I didn't mean 'respectable' in the sense of merely not shabby, just that those who are a chore to share the roads with have moved on from 318s to black A4s. But as for the X5, perhaps 4x4s are useful in the Northwest; nobody down here buys one for its off-road capability.
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>> Amazing the hatred that BMW still arouses here from some quarters, unless it happens to
>> be fitted with the right engine, even the buyer seems to be suspect in some
>> way.
Probably a reaction from their successful marketing campaign. The ultimate driving machine and all that.
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>> The ultimate driving machine and all that.
>>
>>
It is, even in my "weedy" engined version still a very good car to drive,
DP's is the only one I have heard of where a newish 3 series has had reliability problems.
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>> >> The ultimate driving machine and all that.
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> It is, even in my "weedy" engined version still a very good car to drive,
>> DP's is the only one I have heard of where a newish 3 series has
>> had reliability problems.
>>
I think that's part of it, for years it was 6 pot petrol of various sizes. That was so ingrained as part of BMW now anything else isn't really a BMW to some people. I've always quite fancied one to see what all the fuss was about, but they're a bit steep moneywise like for like and I'm tight. But who knows one day?
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>> DP's is the only one I have heard of where a newish 3 series has
>> had reliability problems.
Most of the issues mine has had are common and well documented. The body control module was on a 6 week back order from Germany which gives you an indication.
I wouldn't want to own anything with an N47 engine out of warranty. These timing chain problems have affected it from year 1. The issues are supposed to have been resolved on the latest engines, but there are cases reported on-line of F series cars with the issue. The blown turbos and wobbly DMFs are still popping up as well. Not a good piece of engineering, IMHO.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 24 Oct 13 at 09:55
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This is exactly what mine sounds like now:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDkh3zD-4Xc
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OK, sorry DP I assumed yours was the same as my 2010 E92 which most of my colleagues ones are. I only know of 3 F series 3xx cars (2x320d & 1x330d) although none of these have had issues that's nothing as a sample size.
Obviously if I order one, whether the GT or the saloon which I am testing this weekend, I will hopefully not get one with the same issues as you have had.
Hope you get them resolved soon, it takes any pleasure away from having what can be a really nice car.
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To be honest, I've not heard good things at all about BMW from owners, but when under warranty / company provided, the issues are little more than an inconvenience as replacement cars are always available, and the repairs are free of charge.
When I took the car, I had a rough plan to opt out in 2015 when the car came up for renewal, and find myself a tidy 3 yr old 330d or even a 335d which I could buy outright over 3 years with the allowance. That is now not going to happen.
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He drives like a fart Humph. Seen him out in it. My FiL has a new shape 328 and is, as my wife says the oldest boy-racer in town ! At least he squeezes as much driving pleasure out of it. He still longs after the engine note of "my" 325...which is addictive. I mentioned that I test drove two versions of the Mk7 Golf - the 1.4GT (which makes sense on paper) left me cold, the GTi less so - but VW couldn't make me desire it. I jumped into my 5 year old 3 series and it still felt "complete" on the way home...We're constantly talking here about re-jigging the fleet as the end beckons the Fiesta. I can't convince myself to buy another BMW - and increasingly either a CRV or a Yeti seems to be the way ahead....:-)
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BMW - BMW 3 series GT - my view - WillDeBeest
