Received my first ever PCN from council.
Alleged offence - Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted area street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.
Picture shows my car is stationary in a double yellow line. However, I was still inside in car (a high resolution image should confirm that) as I was waiting for my wife who was coming towards my car (not seen in picture). So my car was not actually parked.
question: if I want to contest it, do I have to pay the fine first and then appeal? If I contest and don't win, can I still 50% discount charge?
The letter says, to claim discounted rate, it must be paid within 21 days. You should not pay discounted rate and make representation at same time.
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So what is your defence?
Double yellow lines with a 'waiting restriction'. You were waiting. Fine in post! :)
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>> Received my first ever PCN from council.
>>
>> Alleged offence - Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted area street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.
>>
>> Picture shows my car is stationary in a double yellow line. However, I was still inside in car (a high resolution image should confirm that) as I was waiting for my wife who was coming towards my car (not seen in picture). So my car was not actually parked.
Pay up.
Reason why, I have put in bold in your post.
Sorry... you're guilty - as would be most of us in the same position. (and to be honest, have been - but lucky not to get caught....)
Last edited by: swiss tony on Sat 19 Oct 13 at 11:45
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If you contest it - it will freeze the charge until the outcome has been decided. I'll link you to the Wales site that is very comprehensive, fair and honest....the rules are probably the same in England....this site is really well written in my opinion and will give you a good base-line from which to write your letter. (slight edit !!)
Cough the job I would in those circumstances though.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 19 Oct 13 at 11:46
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It's always worth contesting at the first stage, because they'll freeze the charge and they may make a procedural error when responding to you, or it might turn out that the signage was wrong or even that the traffic order is invalid.
I would go over to Pepipoo, and post the case there.
I wouldn't just cop to it. In my experience, they don't play fair, so why should you?
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Sat 19 Oct 13 at 11:59
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The sign there says "No Loading Mon-Sat xxxx-xxxx" and alleged incident happened within that period.
Is there any difference between loading and waiting?
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Without wishing to be mean spirited Movi, double yellow lines are usually to be found where it's preferable to the majority not to have parked or indeed "waiting" vehicles. On balance I support their enforcement unless there are exceptional circumstances such as an ambulance attending an emergency or whatever.
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>> Is there any difference between loading and waiting?
I believe there is, but I'm not sure.
Certainly worth asking these questions on Pepipoo, and certainly worth appealing, just to see what it throws up.
I won an appeal a few years back, because the traffic order turned out to be invalid.
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Also, depending upon the actual circumstances, your case may fall under boarding/alighting, which is definitely different to loading/unloading.
You can stop on double yellows to allow a passenger to board/alight.
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Ok, so looks like I need to take the hit :-(
As per council's website, picking up/dropping off passengers is still permitted. So I'll appeal on the ground that I've not left the car any time and the 3 pictures they sent me shows only a period of 15 seconds interval among them!
Also, it looks like I'd get a chance to pay reduced rate even if appeal is rejected.
What do I do once I have received a decision?
If your appeal is successful we will cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and we will write to advise you of this.
If your appeal is rejected, we will allow 14 days from the date of service of our letter (the day you get it) for you to pay the reduced charge.
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Was the PCN issued by a enforcement officer, or was it a CCTV ticket through the post?
If you genuinely feel that you had only stopped to allow a passenger to board, then you should specifically put that in your appeal.
You should also, at a minimum, ask for a copy of the enforcement officer's notes and a copy of the relevant traffic order(s).
I would still recommend posting on Pepipoo, where they will help you check every little detail, but you can also PM me if you'd like any help.
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It's a swindle. They are just trying it on. Challenge, explain, and tell them you aren't going to pay.
Local authorities shouldn't behave like snivelling pickpockets. They deserve a kicking when they do. If they can't produce evidence the car was stopped there for more than say three minutes, they should be told to go forth and multiply.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 19 Oct 13 at 16:47
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24291467
Govt is considering ban on fines via CCTV.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24291467
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>> Govt is considering ban on fines via CCTV.
Great quote from that article:
"Nobody likes getting a parking fine but the fact that less than 1% go to adjudication shows that in the vast majority of cases councils get it right."
More like,
"we pressurise people by blanket rejecting all appeals, even those were the driver is clearly in the right, and by offering a reduced fine if paid before going to adjudication. We may as well do this, because if they do go to adjudication, we just don't turn up and there is no cost to us for abusing the process in this way".
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>> CCTV by post
I've never appealed a CCTV one, but I think it does change the number of appeals you have. Rather than "informal" and then "formal" representations, you only get to make formal ones, I think.
Depends how much time you want to spend, but you might want to get them to show you the video.
I believe they also have to have given consideration as to why they permitted CCTV in that area, rather than using officers. If they can't show that it was properly considered, then they can't issue CCTV tickets, so ask for their proof.
The camera needs to be an "approved device" also, so you should ask for the details.
Make your case on the basis of "boarding" (if that is true) and also ask for all of the above. There could be a hole in it, and they also might make a mistake when responding.
They'll screw you with the letter of the law, if they can...so it's only fair for you to do the same to them.
EDIT: Also further signage requirements for CCTV.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Sat 19 Oct 13 at 17:02
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15 seconds is taking the pee. Even supposing you had been looking for somewhere to park, it could take a minute or two to locate the sign and see what restriction applied and in what time periods.
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>> 15 seconds is taking the pee.
Another symptom of a failing bankrupt (in so many ways) country, when the parasite overconsumes its host it will wither and die.
Except this electronic parasite has access to all, ironically the host has in many cases voted for its own demise.
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>>
>> As per council's website, picking up/dropping off passengers is still permitted. So I'll appeal on
>> the ground that I've not left the car any time and the 3 pictures they
>> sent me shows only a period of 15 seconds interval among them!
>>
At the start of this thread, I was thinking "tough, pay up", but having seen this, I am changing my mind.
Picking up/dropping off a passenger can easily take more than 15secs, and if they can only prove 15 secs with their infernal CCTV then I now say "appeal"!
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In fact, I bet that had the ticket been up to a warden, it would not have been issued. Which, to the council, is the main reason for using cameras! Grrr
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Received an unfair parking fine - sherlock47
