Motoring Discussion > Irrational exclusions Buying / Selling
Thread Author: Crankcase Replies: 43
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 10:33 
 Irrational exclusions - Crankcase
Cars I'd never buy for ridiculous reasons.

Only ever travelled as a passenger in a Citroen once, twenty years or more ago. Don't recall what it was, but never been so carsick in my life. Will never, therefore, buy any kind of Citroen.

Had a Renault for some years - had a couple of bad dealer experiences.Will never buy a Renault again.

Same thing with Vauxhall.

I think this is very definitely nose face spite stuff to my detriment.

Do you have any cars or entire manufacturers you exclude for silly reasons?
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 11:17 
 Irrational exclusions - AnotherJohnH
Not buying because of being carsick doesn't sound irrational to me.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 11:32 
 Irrational exclusions - Zero
except a 20 years ago vomit inducing citroen driven by a vomit inducing driver is not a rational stamp to apply to 2013 citroen.

You can almost rationally apply a blanket ban because of perceived poor product quality and service, but each model subsequent model has to be treated as a new experience dynamically.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 10 Jul 13 at 11:34
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 11:39 
 Irrational exclusions - Crankcase
As I recall (shudder), it was driven perfectly fine, it was just all floaty and kind of wallowed around the bends. Had that suspension - what was it called - hydramatic or something barmy?

I've gone a bit green thinking about it now.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 11:41 
 Irrational exclusions - madf
I will never buy any Rolls Royce: no naked lady mascot.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 11:46 
 Irrational exclusions - -
There's a whole list of makers who's cars or usual dealers i exclude for various rational to me reasons, reliability durability attitude to name but three.

Irrational exclusion would be of cars with rather too camp DRLs that can't be turned off.

It just so happens that the two lists have a high number of concidences.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 11:45 
 Irrational exclusions - helicopter
I will never buy a green car ....because the last green car I had was an Audi 80 which was the worst car I ever owned ( and I have owned Fiats !)

......an overheating pile of poo...........it spent more time off the road than on in the year that I owned it.... cost me a fortune and the overheating was never cured.

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 Thu 11 Jul 13 17:48 
 Irrational exclusions - joshsalvage
>> Not buying because of being carsick doesn't sound irrational to me.
>>
It's a fair excuse
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 12:26 
 Irrational exclusions - TeeCee
I'm with you on the Citroen thing.
I got lumbered with a fleet Xantia once. The only car that's managed to make me feel carsick while driving it.

I avoid anything French on principle, as I find diagnosing weird electrical faults no fun at all.

I also avoid Fords like the plague and always have done. This was reinforced by the two Fords I had to live with on fleet (a Galaxy and a Mondeo), both of which were the most godawful products imaginable and backed up by a service network that seemed to think that their job was to ensure the things left with more faults than they arrived with.

I also once got given a brand spanking new Sierra as a hire car. Somehow during PDI they'd omitted to check the brake fluid and the resevoir was nearly empty. Nice one Ford!
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 12:29 
 Irrational exclusions - Fenlander
I'm lucky I find it easy to stick to rational exclusions... better choice that way.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 12:45 
 Irrational exclusions - Alanovich
I had the Citroen seasickness thing in a CX Safari when I was a nipper - but as an adult I've been in similar and not had a problem. I owned a GSA for a bit with the hydraulic suspension, never a problem.

I've had 31 cars, but never a Vauxhall. I think I subconsciously rule them out of considerations because, well, they're Vauxhalls. I think their only golden period was the Mk1 Astra and Mk2 Cavalier.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 12:52 
 Irrational exclusions - Dog
I've driven many Alfa, Lancia, and Fiat cars over the years, but never fancied owning one.

They're like elephants, in my way of thinking - nice to look at, but I wouldn't want to own one.

:}
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 13:59 
 Irrational exclusions - WillDeBeest
Anything by anyone who can't be bothered to put the instrument panel where the driver can see it (Citroën, I'm looking at you - try moving a bit to the left so it's too far to turn while I'm driving); or to convert important features for RHD (BMW, until too recently); or who pretends that one wiper that can't reach the corners is as good as two that can - fortunately a pretty-much extinct habit above the ultra-mini class now.

Nothing irrational to me about any of these, of course, but others here may differ.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 10 Jul 13 at 18:25
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 14:28 
 Irrational exclusions - idle_chatterer
I had a Citroen ZX once and it's one of the cars I remember with most fondness - single wiper and all. I rather liked the C5 (Tourer) when it came out but it was too expensive (versus an Audi or BMW) as a company car.

Perhaps irrationally I've avoided Peugeot, Renault and Fiat due to my perception of their poor reliability. I avoid Vauxhall/GM due to my actual experience of their poor reliability though.

I'll consider most other marques although anything from China is probably of my list due to (my) doubts about crash worthiness and Sangyong due to their willful ugliness (IMHO of course). Might not consider another Audi due to extreme disappointment in my previous A4 B7 170PD. I would argue all these are rational.

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 Wed 10 Jul 13 14:39 
 Irrational exclusions - Runfer D'Hills
More or less anything Korean. I know many of them are really very good but I can't help feeling I'd stare at it out of the window thinking "Is this really what I've come to, and has all that hard work for so many years resulted in just this?" Wouldn't rush to buy another Vauxhall either. I've had a few and they have all singularly never failed to disappoint. As for Renaults...
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 14:59 
 Irrational exclusions - bathtub tom
It's difficult nowadays to dismiss the output of a country.

My old Kia Pride started life as Mazda and Americans bought them as Fords.

I had an old Fiat 850 that was built by Seat (as were all RHD versions I believe).

At one time, I understand some Ford models country of origin could only be determined from the VIN as the same body/trim/engine variants were built in more than one country.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 15:23 
 Irrational exclusions - TeeCee
>> My old Kia Pride started life as Mazda and Americans bought them as Fords.
>>

Back in the eighties I drove multidrop trucks and the boss was a bloke who'd previously been Transport Manager for the 2nd largest import / export agency in Saudi Arabia.

They had the Ford contract that wasn't. Ford sold cars in Israel so, while you could buy the entire Ford range in Saudi, they were all badged as Mazdas.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 15:58 
 Irrational exclusions - Zero
>> It's difficult nowadays to dismiss the output of a country.
>>
>> My old Kia Pride started life as Mazda and Americans bought them as Fords.
>>
>> I had an old Fiat 850 that was built by Seat (as were all RHD
>> versions I believe).

But that was when SEAT was owned by FIAT.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 22:12 
 Irrational exclusions - Shiny
Had a 1996 Mazda 626, would never have another Mazda as it was so awful in every way apart from looks, in fact it has also made me reticent not to have any other Japanese car.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 22:23 
 Irrational exclusions - Runfer D'Hills
In addition to my admission to negative prejudice (above) to Korean cars, it took me a very long time to accept that Japanese or in fact any non-European car might be alright. I've had to eat my words in recent years having had a couple of good Nissans and most probably would be pleasantly surprised by a car from the land of dog and rotted cabbage eaters too.

I still don't think the vehicles from the Pacific rim quite look as styled/stylish as European ones in the main though. Having said that my neighbour has recently got a Hyundai i40 estate which is quite striking. Not sure I'd actually pay money for one though. Not my money anyway. Maybe in time I'll get there.

My father will be spinning about his axis if he can read this from the other side...

:-)
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 00:13 
 Irrational exclusions - RattleandSmoke
The I10 has been a brilliant little car, yes the styling is odd it looks like something Noddy would drive. Yes it has some pretty dumb features, like a USB port automatically searches any device plugged into it for music, the result as soon as I want to charge up my sat nav the radio comes on!

However it has been very very reliable, it is coming up to 10,000 miles now and in that time nothing at all has gone wrong with it not even a single issue when it was brand new. The only thing I am keeping an eye on is the coolant level which is not on max.

The point about the Korean stuff is you're buying into the package rather than the car. Now my Panda is out of warranty I do wonder if I would have been better with the i10, as I would still have two years warranty on that.

I don't avoid any brands as I see each model as different car. If I would have to say one though it might be BMW, I know far too many people who have had expensive repair bills when engine trouble starts but if I only intended keeping it for three years it would be a none issue.

I personally have always preferred the styling of European cars and always had a soft spot for FIATs, possibly because I was bought up with Ladas (based on a FIAT design).
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 08:45 
 Irrational exclusions - TeeCee
>> I personally have always preferred the styling of European cars and always had a soft
>> spot for FIATs, possibly because I was bought up with Ladas (based on a FIAT
>> design).
>>

IIRC, those Lada / FIAT designs were characterised by the phrase "Three-box saloon", with additional emphasis on the word "box". I'm not sure that any actual styling was involved in that process.
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 06:39 
 Irrational exclusions - L'escargot
>> Do you have any cars or entire manufacturers you exclude for silly reasons?
>>

Any make where the nearest dealer is more than about 15 miles away.
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 16:23 
 Irrational exclusions - FocalPoint
I wouldn't touch a BMW. Reason? The image.

Don't know if that's irrational or not.
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 16:48 
 Irrational exclusions - Runfer D'Hills
>>Don't know if that's irrational or not.

Maybe or maybe not but it possibly strays over into the "might well be" as whatever you might think of the "image" of that brand, it's hard to contest that they make some really very good cars. It's possibly more irrational than being wary of a brand or model which has functional reputation issues.

I guess we are all image conscious at some level, even if only subliminaly, and even if we deny it to ourselves and the outside world.

However, worrying about what someone we don't know thinks of the image of the badge on our car is probably a bit weird in the cold light of day. Rationally speaking of course...

:-)
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 16:56 
 Irrational exclusions - Armel Coussine
Two small boys approached me once as I did the tyres on my Skoda Estelle.

'Hey, mistah,' one of them said. 'Your car's crap.' Cheeky little sod.

'Know a bit about cars, do you?' I replied coldly.

They can't have been complete morons, because they blushed and shuffled away.
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 16:59 
 Irrational exclusions - FocalPoint
It's not irrational if you can't stand the reputation of BMW drivers' sense of entitlement (at least partly born out by my experience) and therefore regard them as a club you don't want to join. It's not irrational if you believe that a lot of other non-BMW drivers think the same and you don't want to be on the receiving end of their opprobrium.

Not everyone will think those reasons are rational, of course.
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 17:07 
 Irrational exclusions - Runfer D'Hills
As my years advance the degree to which I care what others think of my life choices definitely wanes while in direct and opposite proportion the degree to which I care unilaterally about my own opinion of my choices definitely increases.
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 17:09 
 Irrational exclusions - Armel Coussine
I haven't noticed anything statistically untoward about the way BMWs are driven. There are a hell of a lot of them, so they come in all flavours including a goodly proportion of pathetic mimsers, some good quick drivers and a number of clumsy would-be press-on types who can't do it.

Surely one takes other cars as they are driven, instead of judging 'all BMWs' or 'all Audis' in terms of some ill-founded, wimpish, probably envious piece of old-wives'-tale image bigotry?

That isn't a 'sense of entitlement'. It's just clumsy driving in cars some of which are a bit too frisky for their owners. When I have a BMW no one will notice it except with approval.
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 Fri 12 Jul 13 13:06 
 Irrational exclusions - Armel Coussine
>> I haven't noticed anything statistically untoward about the way BMWs are driven.

Just my luck (heh heh): story in today's comic that an 'old-style silver BMW' has been hunting cyclists in Leicestershire and either running them off the road or the front seat passenger leaning out and pushing them off their bikes.

One swallow doesn't make a summer though, all right?

:o}
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 17:10 
 Irrational exclusions - NeilS
I won't buy a new Mini because it will remind me of all the romantic "liaisons" in my 2 minis back in the 70s. Is that irrational because there's so much more room in a new Mini?
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 17:16 
 Irrational exclusions - Runfer D'Hills
>> romantic "liaisons"

I had an MG Midget when I was 18. It was expedient to park by a tree and put your feet on it if you wanted to consummate a "liason".
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 20:13 
 Irrational exclusions - Alastairw
I would never have another Peugeot. The 208 looks quite smart, but my elderly knackered old 306 put me off ever having another.
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 20:24 
 Irrational exclusions - Runfer D'Hills
Admittedly I'm playing devil's advocate here Alastair but, ( and I feel the same about Renaults due to my disastrous Espace by the way so no criticism intended ) but given that your 306 most probably shares almost nothing in the way of components with the new 208, was maybe built by different people in a different factory etc etc....? In effect the only loose connection is the badge on the grille...

What's that old thing again? Something like "Gaining new customers is the easy bit, keeping them once you've got them is the hard bit and and getting them back once they've gone is the hardest of all".

Human nature of course, we're hard to please but very easy to disappoint.
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 20:32 
 Irrational exclusions - Alastairw
I know exactly what you mean Humph. It is irrational as the thread suggests, but you won't see me in a Pug. These days most Pug owners seem to be non car enthusiasts, which must say something about them.
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 21:56 
 Irrational exclusions - Runfer D'Hills
Aye true, although the TG guys seemed to think the new 208 was a bit of alright. I have no connection with the business I'm about to mention but I know a wee bit about the subject so the following encounter made me smile...

I was chatting to a retired neighbour and he mentioned something about needing a new pair of casual shoes and what did I recommend, given that he had wide feet. I suggested that he consider Clarks as they offer wider fittings on certain styles and for what they are they're actually very well specified.

He declared that he'd never buy another pair of their shoes as some he'd had back around 20 years ago ( he described them well enough for me to be able, perhaps sadly, to identify them )and they had rubbed his feet.

No matter how much I tried to explain that the UK factory which had manufactured those shoes had closed down shortly after his had been made, that the people who made them now, by and large, live on the other side of the world, use different machinery, different manufacturing techniques, make shoes for all manner of well known brands, ( some of which he said he liked ) that the design and development team for the esrtwhile factory would have left the business two decades ago and that the only remaining common feature of a modern pair to the old would be the label, he just wasn't having it.

Guess we all have a bit of that in us.
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 Thu 11 Jul 13 22:44 
 Irrational exclusions - Runfer D'Hills
I've just remembered another "you say what?" moment this time with reference to cars.

Couple of years ago, a friend's wife was looking to buy a new small hatchback and after much deliberation, had got it down to a shortlist of two. Her final choice was to be between a Fiesta and an Astra. She test drove examples of both and declared that while she much preferred the Ford, she would buy the ( more expensive ) Vauxhall.

My mate and I asked her why, ( he was particularly interested as he was paying for it ) and she announced that her father had advised her to get the Astra because he'd had a Cortina in the '60s and found it "tinny" whereas he'd had a Cavalier in the '80s and liked it.

They live among us you know.
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 Fri 12 Jul 13 06:19 
 Irrational exclusions - WillDeBeest
Perhaps it's a species of the sentiment that lingered among some of my grandparents' generation - mostly dead now, of course - who wouldn't have anything German or Japanese because of 'what they did in the war'. Mrs Beest's grandmother was one such - although she wasn't very keen either on the black and brown people who'd been on our side: "You can never really trust them, you know."
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 Fri 12 Jul 13 06:03 
 Irrational exclusions - WillDeBeest
...all the romantic "liaisons" in my 2 minis back in the 70s.

I'm trying to work out how you could arrange two Minis side by side so you could use the doors to form what cheap hotels call a 'connecting suite'. Wishing I hadn't started now.
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 Fri 12 Jul 13 13:57 
 Irrational exclusions - Fursty Ferret
Volvo. Got run over by one a few years ago.
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 Fri 12 Jul 13 14:01 
 Irrational exclusions - Runfer D'Hills
Did you know that Volvo in Latin means "I roll" ? Not a lot of people know that...
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 Fri 12 Jul 13 14:22 
 Irrational exclusions - Armel Coussine
Years ago I used to execrate Volvos for mimsing, and even today a St. John's Wood/Primrose Hill Volvo in good form can make a saint swear. But now that mimsing is generalised they don't stand out so much. BMWs are just as bad.

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 Fri 12 Jul 13 16:03 
 Irrational exclusions - DP
There isn't a car I would exclude as such, but there are cars with certain things (a Renault badge, a Rover K-Series under the bonnet, ) that I wouldn't pay more than a couple of hundred quid for, and could therefore just weigh in at the first sign of grief.

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 Sat 13 Jul 13 13:38 
 Irrational exclusions - Mike H
I was put off the first generation Focus when I sat in the back of one at the NEC motor show. My overriding impression was of gloom inside and slitty little windows in the rear doors, although it was probably an inaccurate impression because it was obvioulsy inside. In addition, while I was sitting there another visitor sat in the front, set the front (driver's) seat right back and cracked my shins showing the dismal legroom. These impressions, and the fact that IMHO it looked more like a delivery van from the back than a car, means that as the thread title says, I'd never buy one.
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