Having now owned two new Golfs in a row and not really smitten with the over endowed MK7 I was thinking of leaving the VAG stable so to speak and defecting to Ford and considering part exchanging mine for, say, a new Focus 1.6 Ecoboost 'Titanium'.
The only problem i see at the moment is a slight lack of driver's leg room in the Zetec I sat in and had to have the seat right back on its runners and then lower the seat to get a little bit more room.
I would go for the Titanium as I could not live with the awful pseudo mobile phone layout of the dashboard on the lesser models.
Now, would this car satisfy me in the same way my current MK6 1.4 TSI Golf does?
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>>would this car satisfy me...
It might change your life OG. I've never been disappointed by a Ford. Never desperately so by a VW either mind but they are much better than some want to think.
:-)
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I have a MK4 Mondeo Titanium X and even after 3 years of owning it i still love it.It had no warranty issues what so ever and is an absolute pleasure to drive.My parents have recently bought a new Fiesta and the amount of kit you get for little money is amazing.It even dials out in the event of an accident and tells the emergency services your gprs position so that help can be on the way.Amazing!.
I have voice control in the Mondeo and i load up a 110 track mp3 disc.Jumping from track 1 to say track 78 is as easy as saying the number.The car always gets it right as well.
You could try looking at the Fiesta as its quite a large car.My parents bought the city pack for £300 which gave you power folding wing mirrors and reverse parking sensors.
Its very refined to drive and the suspension is supple.Overall its a very nice place to be.
Buy a Ford...I know you want to...!
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>> .. I've never been disappointed by a Ford...
Sorry for the late response to this HdB, but I'm reading this thread from bottom to top... You obviously never had the misfortune to drive a '92 on a 'K' Escort 1.4LX! Perhaps I just had high hopes as a fresh faced 21 year old...my first company car, resplendent in metallic burgundy (!) with a sunroof and a spoiler, delivered to my door - could life get any better ? ;-)
As it turned out, it certainly could. That car was the most hateful car I'd ever driven. Sure, it was free(ish), new and shiny. It was also slow, rough, uncomfortable and with nasty grey/purplish flecked upholstery. Put me off Fords for a very long time! Came close to choosing the then new Mondeo in early '94 - I thought it drove very nicely indeed. The bank vault like solidity of an Audi 80 won me over, though that car was even slower than the Escort I think!
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You obviously never had the misfortune to drive a '92 on a 'K'
>> Escort 1.4LX!
And misfortune is the right word, this very car holds the distinction along with the dreadful 3 cylinder Corsa and Fiat 500 fitted with satans automated manual (difficult to choose which was worse) of being the three cars unable to climb my transporters decks without a run up.
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In some ways I'm pleased to hear that GB - I thought perhaps I was being a little harsh :-)
Though my next (and only other) significant Ford experience was also a let down. I did 4 or 5k miles in a Focus 1.8LX in 1998 courtesy of National Car Rental while in between company cars. Whilst a crisp handling car, again I thought the engine was noisy and unrefined, and the interior garish and plasticky. All the journalists raved about it, and was a good looking and sweet handling car, but I didn't ever 'get' the praise heaped upon it - a good car overall, yes, but great?
Last edited by: PeterS on Wed 10 Jul 13 at 21:08
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Just before it finished its run Ford slipped the 1.8 engine into the Escort LX trim again (Eurodollar/Europcar had hundreds), that made it into the car it always should have been, you'd never believe it was the same car basically as that dreadful 1.4.
About the same time Rover stuck the 2.0 engine in the 200/400 shell in fairly basic SLi trim, another nice car i thought, again both featured on the rental fleets.
Always had a soft spot for fairly basic cars with engines slightly oversized/understressed, they made enjoyable easy drives.
That probably harks back to one of my favourite owned cars of all time, Ventora which was an FD Victor with a Cresta 3.3 straight six and overdrive gearbox.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Wed 10 Jul 13 at 21:26
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That 1.4 CVH powered Escort makes my top 5 worst cars I've ever driven as well. Unfortunate combination of an engine that was both under-endowed for the weight of the car, and thoroughly nasty when worked hard. I remember those high frequency vibrations that all CVH engines sent tingling through the entire car as you passed 5000 RPM, except in the Escort, you weren't doing any more than keeping up with traffic.
Unless it had a turbo bolted to it, the CVH had no redeeming features whatsoever, although the same 1.4 engine worked well in 800kg of mk2 Fiesta. ISTRC this was available as an "L" spec on little steel rims, with a push button radio, and with nasty cloth trim. Much, much quicker than it looked.
I agree, the 1.8 Zetec transformed the car. It wasn't too shabby with the 1.6 either. At least both engines would rev beyond 5000 RPM without your fillings vibrating loose.
One of my favourites of that era was the old mk3 Cavalier 2.0iGL. Bland repmobile on steel rims with plastic wheeltrims, with an absolute peach of an engine that went like stink by class standards. Totally effortless to drive, and the first car I ever went in that I would say was genuinely effortless at a ton.
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>> You obviously never had the misfortune to drive a '92 on a 'K'
>> >> Escort 1.4LX!
In about 2000 or so, my missus bought a '98 R reg Escort 1.4 LX. She chose it because it was white (years ahead of the fashion curve there) and had a silver coloured gear knob. She didn't even want to test drive it. She has subsequently learnt her lesson.
It was horrible to drive in every way and, excluding its irritating 100% reliability record, is easily the worst of the 31 cars which have been through my/our hands. I inherited it when our work situations changed (my long commute changed to a short one, her short one to a long one, and she took over the wonderful Mondeo 1.8LX estate I had at the time), and I immediately traded it in for an ex-rental (Budget) nearly new FIAT Marea 1.8 ELX (I think that was the trim level at least). Loved that car.
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I too liked the Marea, the estate version was a nice car too, was that also Marea?
Seemed so much more solid quiet and comfortable than the very similar Bravo/Brava of the time.
I'd previously owned a Regata Diesel, whilst not particularly well made and some parts were poor quality the overall car especially in the early days of Diesel cars was revelation compared to others in ability handling etc.
It had a 1.9 NA engine which went surprisingly well and fanstastically frugal, Fords competition at the time was the 1.6 and later 1.8 NA Diesel Orion, a slug by anybodys judgement, VW hadn't yet blown the 1.6 Diesel which sounded like a knackered tractor, the French and Italians were streets ahead in Diesels at the time IMO.
edit..oh yes DP's Cavalier memories, superb design that was, i was sorely disappointed in Vectra when it arrived with its orange box seats.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 11 Jul 13 at 10:11
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>> I too liked the Marea, the estate version was a nice car too, was that
>> also Marea?
Yes. Vastly underrated cars.
>> I'd previously owned a Regata Diesel,
I had a 1.3 petrol Regata, 4 speed manual. Eager little car, total pleasure to drive and very reliable (bust a cambelt, my fault for not changing it, bent one of the valves a bit but it soldiered on). Drove UK to Gibraltar and back twice in that. One of my favourite cars.
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>> It might change your life OG. I've never been disappointed by a Ford.
I have also never been disappointed by a Ford.
Even the Mondeo was a dream to drive and maintain, no joke.
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>> Even the Mondeo was a dream to drive and maintain, no joke.
A better built and engineered (where it counts) car than a 3 series, IMHO (and yes I've had several examples of both).
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The only way to find out is to get a good long test drive of each, as both are objectively very good cars, and this is about which suits you better personally.
If it's any help, I've recently test driven a Golf GTI and a Focus ST. Bearing in mind that I'm 64 - I like to get a move on but I'm not and probably never was a boy-racer - the GTI suited me perfectly. I already love that engine in my Octavia vRS, in particular its ability to pootle (which you have to do a lot of the time) as well as provide a terrific wallop of acceleration when wanted.
The Focus had plenty of wallop but somehow - and I can't put my finger exactly on how - it didn't feel right driven more gently. A bit like a BMW 3-series, it seemed to want you to concentrate with every part of your mind and body in order to get the best out of it. Much of the time I just want to relax when I'm driving, but also to know that the wallop is there in reserve.
This may not be the same with the Golf 1.4 and Focus 1.6 but it might be. I would suggest you also put the Volvo V40 on the shortlist as you're unlikely to be uncomfortable in it.
Also the Focus and V40 have proper handbrakes, which may be a factor for you. It still is for me I think, although I was reluctantly impressed with the electronic brake on the GTI as it comes on automatically when you stop, releases automatically when you start, and has a hill-hold function.
For myself I'd have another vRS, and may yet, but SWMBO would like something smaller, and when we retire next year we may go places where we could share the driving.
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So much to ponder on then. Naively i thought that the Ford when speccd to my requirements was no cheaper than the MK7 Golf and probably had fewer gizmos.
Can someone tell me whether if you specify retractable door mirrors that they can be retracted whilst driving as i do this in my Golf and is a necessity when driving in narrow country lanes.
I was also hoping for shorter delivery times on factory orders but seemingly this wont be the case as I want a sunroof, retractable mirrors and parking sensors.
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Lots of Focuses on car rental fleets.
Why not hire one for a day or weekend and see how it copes with your normal commute?
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There is nothing magic about VW/Audi above other brands unless you appreciate the little touches and want to pay for them. In truth most modern cars are very good.
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>> So much to ponder on then. Naively i thought that the Ford when speccd to
>> my requirements was no cheaper than the MK7 Golf and probably had fewer gizmos.
>>
Ford might surprise you in that area. The Golf has VAQ as an option, torque vector braking is standard on the Focus. If you do a true like for like spec right down to std equipment on each car then you will see the real difference.
Only the blue needles niggle me with Ford. Who has baby blue needles on their instrument panel? :-(
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For me the interior design of the current Focus and Fiesta would turn me off one. What were they thinking? They will soon no doubt come out with a redesign with a touch screen replacing a lot of the hideous controls.
I see the button heavy Insignia is being redesigned along those lines.
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Quote "Can someone tell me whether if you specify retractable door mirrors that they can be retracted whilst driving as i do this in my Golf and is a necessity when driving in narrow country lanes."
Yes on the Fiesta and the Mondeo there is a button you can press to retract the mirrors in whilst driving.Its very handy for getting between two parked cars!.I cannot help with the Focus though.
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>>there is a button you can press to retract the mirrors in whilst driving
I do that on my jalopy - very handy for driving down the narrow lanes of Cornwall, wifey didn't bother doing it though.
Until I told her the price of a new folding heated door mirror ;)
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We had a new shape Focus 1.6 as an extended courtesy loan, it's significantly more refined than the Mk3, which we own, and I found it excellent in every respect. It averaged 40 to 45 mpg while we had it. Our MK3 1.6 has been fine, although not quite as "solid" a feel as our Octavia, it does the job perfectly, is economical, great engine, great gearchange, smooth clutch, nicely weighted steering and of course the delightful handling. A little bit harsh over poor road surfaces and could do with more sound-proofing, notably the Mk4 we hired was much quieter.
I would say you need to negotiate a very good discount if buying a new one at a dealer, as they depreciate very fast in their first year, much more than the equivalent Golf. I paid only £7600 for a 15 month old car 2 years ago, a real bargain.
Drive both on the same day, the Focus has a very different interior feel to the understated Golf, which many traditionally prefer. Although I think the new Golf has an electronic handbrake, so it's crossed off my list unfortunately.
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Oldgit, have considered the new Auris, in top spec Hybrid its probably on a par with Golf price and equipment wise, but should provide vastly better overall economy.
Toyota's customer service might prove an eye opener after a German maker, quite apart from the warranty aspect.
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Yes, I have also considered the Auris Icon and will get along to my local Jemcar dealer sometime.
I have never really had any problems with VW dealerships but I don't like very much their starchy, corporate facade where you can't see the actual workers who deal with your car. I know that most main dealerships, nowadays are much the same.
I, too don't like the idea of the ebrake on the new Golf especially on a manual transmission. People tell me that I'll get used to it but why should I have to just to make more room in the centre console for storing more junk. It's nonsense, quite frankly.
I am ambivalent about the growth of touchscreens in cars. You can't beat proper buttons with their tactility although with so many functions I can see that this can lead to too many buttons. However it is a distraction to have to look at a screen, away from your line of sight in order to operate certain feature via virtual buttons and menus.
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I too detest electric parking brakes, its my line in the sand together with automated manual or multi plate boxes such as DSG, i aint 'avin' 'em and thats final.
I was sorely disappointed when present Avensis appeared in 09 with a blasted electric handbrake ( i suspect one would have been on our drive already but for that) though to be fair it works well despite operating backwards, but i see new Auris retains a real handbrake in the correct place so have every hope that Toyotas EPB experiment is now over and Avensis replacement will revert to tried and trusted.
One thing among many i don't know about does new Auris hybrid have similar on/off foot operated parking brake to Prius...not as its a problem because the transmission is seamlessly smooth and perfectly controllable to the tiniest degree and the steepest hill starts imaginable present not a moments worry, just wondered thats all.
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Here you go GB ! Watch this and it'll widen your choices for your next car...
www.driving-test-success.com/clutch_control/clutch_control.html
No need for thanks btw ! No problem, anytime !
:-))
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Hump, you are a cheeky boy...good one though.
Just to qualify something though and this isn't aimed at you cos i know (hope) you're leg pulling, the job i used to do required infinitely fine vehicle control, but it had to be done in a sympathetic manner.
Any fool can (and does, i've seen and smelled the clutch smoke drifting across compounds) rev the guts out of a motor whilst slipping the clutch to make a hill start but doing so, and remember a car can be transported several times before delivery, will seriously damage the life and long term prospects of the clutch and DMF of someone elses property.
Hence a fine balance of keeping the engine torque and revs as low as possible whilst applying just enough clutch to keep controlled close movements, some cars were great for this...surprisingly Toyotas little 3 pot Aygo/107/C1 engine is one of the best proving almost impossible to stall (and make a good manual city car), and some including some Ford Diesels and Fiat 500 petrols to mention just a couple were not.
Unfortunately 20 years of such movements does have an effect on your on road driving, and instills mechanical sympathy possibly to obsessive levels.
I can't think of any further excuses for stalling those hopeless Ford Diesels at the moment, but be assured when i can dream a couple more up i'll be back.
:-))
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For something that is aimed at learners, the answer to the question:
(Do I have to) Press The Clutch Pedal All The Way Down?
whilst true, will lead to more crunched gearchanges for some and an unnecessary complication. No one I know has ever broken or worn out a diaphragm spring!
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>> I too detest electric parking brakes, its my line in the sand together with automated
>> manual or multi plate boxes such as DSG, i aint 'avin' 'em and thats final.
>>
>> I was sorely disappointed when present Avensis appeared in 09 with a blasted electric handbrake
I like a man who knows his mind and sticks to it!
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Indeed, I would also probably have one too were it not for the e-brake. Even the Toyota ones fail, there are a few horror stories on the forums, about a £1000 job to fix - and that's my gripe with things like this, I tend to buy cars a few years old and do as much DIY as I can. Incidentally, OG, my neighbour has the very latest Auris hybrid, it seems to be an extremely good car, I think he's averaging well over 60 mpg. Nice shape this time too. Toyota build and feel is about as good as it gets IMO.
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>> I am ambivalent about the growth of touchscreens in cars. You can't beat proper buttons
>> with their tactility although with so many functions I can see that this can lead
>> to too many buttons. However it is a distraction to have to look at a
>> screen, away from your line of sight in order to operate certain feature via virtual
>> buttons and menus.
>>
+1
My 2004 Saab has a touch screen. Not only do you have to take your eyes off the road to find the touch point, it's very difficult to see in daylight. I use dipped beam all the time, which is the norm (although no longer the law) here in Austria, which dims it even more despite turning the brightness full up. Being an early generation of touch screen, and generally carp hardware/software, the touch point is often not even where it should be, and even worse, there sometimes IS no touch point - the software seems to have set it about 1cm off the screen!
Bring back buttons and simpler audio/nav systems, that's what I say.
Last edited by: Mike H on Sun 7 Jul 13 at 10:34
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>>the touch point is often not even where it should be, and even worse, there sometimes IS no touch point - the software seems to have set it about 1cm off the screen!
Silly question maybe, but have you looked in the destruction book for the calibration routine? I'm pretty sure, without checking, that the one I am currently using has one buried somewhere - you have to press crosses to set it up.
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I bought my first Ford 2.5 years ago in 30 years of driving. Never even had one as a company car apart from an old Mk1 Fiesta pool car.
I bought an S-Max as a replacement for an E320 CDI estate. I have been very pleased with it and it's double-clutch Powershift box. With the clock now reading 45,000 it is still enjoyable to drive, has been 100% reliable and is showing its miles very well.
So to the OP, don't be scared of a Ford. Try it, you might like it!
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I'm often drawn to the Ford Models, but often end up disappointed. I'm sure that many of their models are best in class for handling, but I don't drive anything to the limit so couldn't really tell if they were a "bit better"
I also find the interiors a bit tacky, and they date quickly
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The T was a good one, Mikey.
};---)
The S-Max was a home run for Ford, quite the nicest blue oval car I've driven or even been in. Even the interior - so often a Ford weak spot, as Mikey points out - is stylish and innovative rather than merely gimmicky.
I think Ford's problem - Vauxhall has the same one without the appealing engineering - is the lack of a consistent design direction. Look at a BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, maybe even a Fiat, from the 1980s and there's a distinct family resemblance, inside and/or out, to one you can buy today. But even since 1995, Ford has given us the oval-everything theme, the 'New Edge' malarkey, now the pseudo-Aston Martin look, each entirely different from what went before.
The other brands' consistency promotes the idea of longevity; Ford is left appearing to chase the ephemeral mass-market, and is inherently less desirable as a result.
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>> Silly question maybe, but have you looked in the destruction book for the calibration routine?
>>
Oh yes, I know perfectly well how to calibrate it, but it doesn't stay calibrated. I rarely use the satnav or the ICE so it's not a big deal. When I do, I can change the sound source and select CD tracks, radio stations etc from the steering wheel so I'm not fussed. I have to reboot the system to calibrate it because it won't detect the "calibration" button until I do!
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>> I have never really had any problems with VW dealerships but I don't like very much their starchy, corporate facade where you can't see the actual workers who deal with your car. I know that most main dealerships, nowadays are much the same.>>
Not the case with my local VW dealership...:-) You certainly can see the actual workers...!!
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Had my share of Fords and VWs and would happily buy either marque although brand image of Ford is more mundane, I quite fancy a Golf VII and would have had one if they'd been available in Aus at the time we needed a car.
We've had 2x Mondeo IIIs and a late model Focus I, all were paragons of reliability and great to drive. The Focus I had a bit of a low-rent interior compared to VWs but the Mondeos (and the Focus II/III) had decent enough interiors IMHO, not sure I'm convinced by the latest Focus though - its interior is really what steered us towards the Golf VI we eventually bought - that and SWMBO really likes Golfs. If I'm pedantic, Ford seem to 'skimp' on interior lighting on most models - or they used to (a minor irritation of course).
So far, I'd say VW customer service has been marginally better but Ford's was absolutely fine too (I think the dealer matters here). Fords were probably cheaper to service 10 years ago but I'm not convinced that's true now. Our various Golfs have been a lot more economical than our Focus (1.8l) but our (2.0l Petrol) Mondeos were surprisingly frugal.
Oh and I now have DSG and twin-charger and they're absolutely, completely, wonderfully fine - as it the hill hold....
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>> >> I have never really had any problems with VW dealerships but I don't like
>> very much their starchy, corporate facade where you can't see the actual workers who deal
>> with your car. I know that most main dealerships, nowadays are much the same.>>
>>
>> Not the case with my local VW dealership...:-) You certainly can see the actual workers...!!
>>
What I meant was that you can't speak to the grease monkeys or their manager, so to speak.
Yes, the service areas and bays look spotless and very encouraging but am not so sure about the quality of work, considering their tight schedules and work loads.
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Had various Fords both privately owned and as company cars. Every single one of them was a pleasure to own or have custody of.
The dealers are awful though, in my experience. Not that my own cars ever went within a mile of them, but the company cars unfortunately had to.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 8 Jul 13 at 09:10
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Well this afternoon I went to my local main dealer Bristol St Motors to have another look at the Focus Titanium but they didn't have one so I spent plenty of time looking at details of the slighly lowlier models and was surprised to find that there was not on/off wheel for shutting off air to the side vents and yet there was on other Ford cars such as the Kuga. I would have thought this an essential as one doesn't always want air out of these vents all the time and altering the distribution would not solve the problem.
in other respects the lights switch seems a bit pathetic having no well-defined pointer to immediately indicate where it is pointing. Yes, the legroom for the driver is just about sufficient for me at a shrunken six footer if you have the seat right back on the runners and then lower the seat to the floor whereby extra cms are obtained.
I must say I wasn't all that impressed with the dealer. The site was pulled down about 7 years ago to build new showrooms etc. but half the land was sold off for building of flats and so the new edifice is still cramped for space with no room for casual buyers etc.
Perhaps it'll be the new Golf after all and sod the e-brake.
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you need to see which way the light switch is pointing all the time?
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>> you need to see which way the light switch is pointing all the time?
>>
>>
>>
No but I like my minor controls to be unequivocal in their action. I have the same problem with my Golf's heater controls where they did away with controls with a raised centre spine culminating in a pointer. You knew exaclty where it was by feel. I have to look down to mine if I want to make the air go to the windscreen as they are just round flat tin lid type knobs with a red pointer marked on the periphery - poor design as is Ford's Focus' light control - although probably can see its position better at night when illuminated.
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>> Well this afternoon I went to my local main dealer Bristol St Motors to have
>> another look at the Focus Titanium but they didn't have one so I spent plenty
>> of time looking at details of the slighly lowlier models and was surprised to find
>> that there was not on/off wheel for shutting off air to the side vents and
>> yet there was on other Ford cars such as the Kuga.
Might be worth checking again. I'd be amazed too if they couldn't be shut off.
Looking at this pic, I wonder if they are similar to the Outlander. That has no little wheel either, an omission I noticed too, before I realised that the tab that controls the louvres can be used to close them completely. No wheel required.
The top, smaller fixed one channels a small amount of air at the window on demist. That will not have a separate shut off. The Golf will have those too.
goo.gl/BbrIF
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What's wrong with Fords? I've been in lots and many were memorable. I've only owned one and it gave excellent service.
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For what it's worth, I hired a Mk2 Focus for a week while I still owned my 2001 318i before it was changed for the Legacy.
The Focus was a 1.6 115bhp petrol manual, the BM a 1.9 115bhp auto. Both very close in size and spec. At the end of the week I was left wondering why you'd pay such a chunk extra for the BM new when the Ford really did seem to be its match? I'd venture the same view on the Golf of the same era...
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Arguably, BMW is the new Ford in the company car league. Just to pause a moment and compare the '80s company car park with today's...
1980s - Depending on your job grade
Fiesta
Escort
Cortina/Sierra
Granada
Now - Depending on your job grade
1 series
3 series
5 series
7 series
The irony being that all the stereotyping of Fords as company cars has now been transferred to BMWs with Audis being the Vauxhalls, and maybe Mercs having inherited Rover's slot.
Though not 100% accurate by any means but you could have a fair stab at someone's pay grade just by looking at the numerals on the back of their Beemer !
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 18:53
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Which is why so many are 'de-badged'.
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" looking at the numerals on the back of their Beemer ! "
Except for the numerous new Beemer company cars I deliver which have been de-badged!!
Unless they are a 135, 330, 335, M3, M5 etc!!
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Trouble with de-badging is that even if you were trying to be modest about the humungeous engine you had most people would assume that it was in fact an attempt to disguise the fact that you had the weedymobile one.
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" trying to be modest about the humungeous engine you had"
not come across one of those - all the debadged ones I've delivered are "weedymobiles"
You can tell by the lack of "extras" and by the fact that overtaking trucks on the motorway is a lengthy process that you wouldn't attempt on an A road!
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Debadging is just silly, because those that can't tell don't care, and those that know their cars will always be able to tell.
I came across something even sillier this evening though. I'd been following an '04 plate VW Toureg along the A29 from Fontwell. For those that don't know the road, there's a shortish 2 lane section up the hill just north of the junction with the A27. I was in my £500 convertible, and as the VW was a bit smokey thought I'd nip past it on that stretch - I'd assumed it was the old 2.5 TDI powered version, as they usually are...
As soon as the driver saw I was overtaking she put her foot down - a bugbear for a different thread perhaps.... There was the most almighty cloud of black smoke, but remarkably little progress. I took a quick look, and it was actually badged W10. Now I've driven a Toureg with that engine, and it absolutely flies. We'd been going about 45ish , and i was doing no more than 70 when I pulled back in. There's no way a W10 powered Toureg could be out accelerated by a 20 year old 150PS petrol car with a 4 speed auto - so it was ether remarkably knackered, or mis-badged...
:-)
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In a recent Auto Express I was reading in the supermarket, the Focus ST was ranked above the new Golf GTI and Megane, which was interesting reading, as normally they worship at the altar of VAG. I have always fancied one of those bright green or orange ones, something appealingly rebellious about them.
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>> I have always fancied one of those bright green or orange ones, something appealingly rebellious about them.
Gosh yes absolutely, me too, but I would feel obliged to get some tattoos too I fear.
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Exactly! Would I be let into the Company car park?
......although I walk in now with my bike kit on and no-one seems to mind..too much!
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If BMW is the new Ford in the company car league (and I don't disagree), then Ford is the new ???
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I'm not sure Paul, but I see what you mean !
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As we have a 2012 C-Max in the household I couldn't say, I was hoping someone objective would comment!
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I had a hired C-Max in Italy about this time last year. Small diesel engined manual ( maybe a 1.6 ) Not sure what trim level it was but it had plenty of kit. Nice thing actually and not as compromised by its small engine as I'd have imagined. Could easily live with one on a daily basis. Good enough place to sit anyway.
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It's an impressive car, very good on a long journey too.
When we moved to the ultra wealthy North Cotswolds six years ago, I was surprised by how many of the locals have Fords. I now know this due to the lovely people at the dealership 'Cutts' in Chipping Campden, who seem to understand the importance of being friendly and giving good service.
Last edited by: Paul Robinson on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 20:22
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Dealers must have "Catchment areas" where the proportion of the makes they retail is increased.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 20:42
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Lots of Fords in the Scottish Borders not least due to the exemplary service and businesslike friendliness of the dealers Harrisons of Peebles and Galashiels.
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Perhaps Ford is the new Austin Rover. Usually on company car lists, but seldom chosen by anyone...
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You might be right there Peter. I had a shot of my pal's this year's model new Mondeo estate recently which was a fairly high spec one with all the toys and while some might find this predictable, I really liked it. Went well, handled well, very comfortable etc etc. Wouldn't feel at all deprived in one of those.
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>> >> Well this afternoon I went to my local main dealer Bristol St Motors to
>> have
>> >> another look at the Focus Titanium but they didn't have one so I spent
>> plenty
>> of time looking at details of the slighly lowlier models and was surprised to
>> Looking at this pic, I wonder if they are similar to the Outlander. That has
>> no little wheel either, an omission I noticed too, before I realised that the tab
>> that controls the louvres can be used to close them completely. No wheel required.
>>
>> The top, smaller fixed one channels a small amount of air at the window on
>> demist. That will not have a separate shut off. The Golf will have those too.
>>
>> goo.gl/BbrIF
>>
You could be correct there but there seemed to be litlle up and down movement in the louvre tab. All my cars to date have had on/off wheels on each of their four vents i.e. two centre and two side vents.
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When I tried the Focus ST (as mentioned upthread) I didn't think there was as much air coming out of the vents as there should have been. I'm not sure if that was the positioning or shape of the vents or just me failing to find the adjustment.
In general I think VAG do dashboards better than most. The Golf also gives you more of a feeling of space than the Focus, where I felt a little 'hemmed in'. I also wonder what Ford think they are gaining by making the central buttons on several of their dashboards look like a last-century mobile phone.
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OG - buy the Golf, it will be worth much more come resale and VAG won't have skimped on the nice touches like closing airvents and interior lighting.
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>> OG - buy the Golf, it will be worth much more come resale and VAG
>> won't have skimped on the nice touches like closing airvents and interior lighting.
>>
I think you're correct in that assumption. Other makes seem to fall down in the detail and that is where the devil is.
No side air vent controllers, an intrusive dash assembly into the front space. A mass of buttons, blue pointers on the dials, a push button start even though you have to use the key fob to open the car (unless you pay extra for full keyless entry), otherwise pointles. Barely adequate legroom and all this for the same price as a 1.4TSI SE golf with panoramic sunroof, parking sensors and a whole load of standard gizmos. However, that e-brake...............hmmmmm!!
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>> a 1.4TSI SE golf with panoramic sunroof, parking sensors and a whole load of standard
>> gizmos. However, that e-brake...............hmmmmm!!
>>
In Aus this model comes with parking sensors and a reverse camera plus the 150PS TSi engine with the (IMHO) now sorted DSG. It would have been perfect for me but we needed our car 9 months ago... If we stay in Aus then it's on my shopping list for whenever the man-maths allows. Or if we move countries again then its equivalent model in whatever market will also be an option.
Like you, everything else feels like a compromise or an extravagance to me, I must have swallowed the marketing hype then ;-)
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>> No side air vent controllers, an intrusive dash assembly into the front space. A mass
>> of buttons, blue pointers on the dials, a push button start even though you have
>> to use the key fob to open the car (unless you pay extra for full
>> keyless entry), otherwise pointles. Barely adequate legroom and all this for the same price as
>> a 1.4TSI SE golf with panoramic sunroof, parking sensors and a whole load of standard
>> gizmos. However, that e-brake...............hmmmmm!!
Really?
DTD has the Focus 1.6 Ecoboost Titanium (EcoTit for short?) more than £3000 cheaper than a Golf 1.4TSISE.
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>> Really?
>>
>> DTD has the Focus 1.6 Ecoboost Titanium (EcoTit for short?) more than £3000 cheaper than
>> a Golf 1.4TSISE.
>>
Well I wouldn't be dealing with DTD and anyway you'd need an accurate and detailed comparison and I'd want a sunroof which admittedly on the Ford is nearly half the price of the Golf's panoramic roof.
I have done online configurations and maybe the Ford Titanium 1.6 Ecoboost is cheaper but that is because I purposely left out the pack that gives most of the things that are standard fit on the Golf which included Adaptive CC, City emergency braking etc etc.
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Every focus model that matches every golf model is cheaper with discount. Ok so you may not like DtD (no idea why) you can get similar discounts in other ways.
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Don't believe the prices quoted by Ford-ask the dealer.
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Golf resale values are a major reducer of its TCO. I could still sell our 10 year old TDI for £2,000 tomorrow.
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>> Golf resale values are a major reducer of its TCO. I could still sell our
>> 10 year old TDI for £2,000 tomorrow.
>>
And that's the point isn't it ? IIRC, when I last made the comparison (in the UK), running a Focus for SWMBO was roughly equivalent to running a Golf, they depreciated by much the same actual (not relative) amount, their maintenance and insurance was broadly comparable but the purchase cost and resale value for the Golf were considerably higher than a (discounted) Focus. If you paid anything like list price for the Ford then it would have been considerably more expensive than the Golf. I don't imagine that these economics have changed much in the past 4 years ?
So it then might depend on how you are to fund the car, if you have to borrow the higher amount for the Golf then the Ford might be attractive (although with derisory interest rates I'd suggest that's not a big factor), if you get one of those PCP things you'll just be funding the depreciation so I suppose the comparison will also be broadly similar, if it's your own money then the opportunity cost difference is probably small in the current economic climate too?
Which leaves the choice down to which car you like doesn't it, costs (as long as you don't pay list for the Ford) being similar ?
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>> ......... considering part exchanging mine for, say, a new Focus 1.6 Ecoboost
>> 'Titanium'.
How many PS? If you stretch your finances to a Titanium X you could have a 182PS engine like mine. I find the performance very satisfying.
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You are obviously not aware of my requrements in these cars. The Titanium is about the limit here in the range as anything higher gets lower profile tyre and fussy wheels which are anathema to me. I think that my Golf's 205/55 R16 wheels are about the limit and anything which detracts from ride comfort is a definite no no.
Money-wise, I am not really worried as I have quite a lot of disposable cash and always buy my new cars outright. If you are on a pension one does want to be outlaying fixed amounts every month for a car even though it might be zero finance - anyway that is my thinking.
I am in my middle 70's and my partner is 5 years older and so we don't want our spines jarred by cars with hard, jiggly rides especially on our appalling road surfaces riddled with potholes and patchwork repairs.
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It seems like what you really want is a Golf with a mechancial handbrake - not a Focus or anything else that isn't VAG. Is there a suitable alternative on offer from SEAT or Audi?
Am I right in thinking you've discounted the Octavia? I'm pretty sure all the Skodas based on the Golf platform still don't have electronic parking brakes, or low-profile tyres as standard, come to that.
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>> It seems like what you really want is a Golf with a mechancial handbrake -
>> not a Focus or anything else that isn't VAG. Is there a suitable alternative on
>> offer from SEAT or Audi?
>>
>> Am I right in thinking you've discounted the Octavia? I'm pretty sure all the Skodas
>> based on the Golf platform still don't have electronic parking brakes, or low-profile tyres as
>> standard, come to that.
>>
The SEAT Leon for some strange reason is a very gloomy and bland place to be in a the roofline/windscreen slope was excessively steep.
The Audi A3 Sportback hatch whatever it is called disappointed me a lot when I sat in one a few weeks ago. However I walked across the showroom and was pleasantly surprised by how nice the A1 was BUT again there has been talk of harsh ride in anything but the base models and this only comes with a 1.2 85PS engine. Again for the SE A1 there are excessive waiting times for factory orders - was told ca 6 month.
Have never considered the Octavia as it's a large car in my judgement compared with the hatchbacks I have been looking at.
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>> You are obviously not aware of my requrements in these cars. The Titanium is about
>> the limit here in the range as anything higher gets lower profile tyre ......
When I told the salesman that I wasn't keen on the 17" wheels and 215/50 R17 tyres which are standard on the Titanium X he offered to swap (free of charge) the standard wheels for a set of 16" wheels and 215/55 R16 tyres from a Titanium that they had in the showroom. I accepted his offer. So I now have a Titanium X specification car, but with the improved comfort of 215/55 R16 tyres.
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I wonder how much he made upselling your unwanted pretty 17"s to a fashion victim?
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>> I wonder how much he made upselling your unwanted pretty 17"s to a fashion victim?
>>
At one point the buyer of the Titanium introduced himself to me in the showroom (the salesman had pointed me out to him), and he thanked me in a friendly sort of way for "my wheels". He said that the change hadn't entered into the price that he'd paid, and he actually preferred the handling advantage that he perceived of having 17" wheels.
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He said that the change hadn't entered into the
>> price that he'd paid,
You did the right thing L'es but you don't need anyone to tell you that, i would have done exactly that too.
I wonder how the other chap feels now he's had a few months to find out the ride quality, and in another year or two finds out the difference in replacement tyre costs.
We hired a Focus on 17" wheels in Ireland a few years ago, ride was appalling on the undulating holed roads.
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>> and in another year or two finds out the difference in
>> replacement tyre costs.
That was another of my reasons for going for 16" wheels instead of 17". Another reason was the smaller weight of a 16" wheel and tyre should I ever get a puncture and need to change the wheel.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Thu 11 Jul 13 at 08:16
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>> >> You are obviously not aware of my requrements in these cars. The Titanium is
>> about
>> >> the limit here in the range as anything higher gets lower profile tyre ......
>>
>> When I told the salesman that I wasn't keen on the 17" wheels and 215/50
>> R17 tyres which are standard on the Titanium X he offered to swap (free of
>> charge) the standard wheels for a set of 16" wheels and 215/55 R16 tyres from
>> a Titanium that they had in the showroom. I accepted his offer. So I now
>> have a Titanium X specification car, but with the improved comfort of 215/55 R16 tyres.
>>
Don't like the sound of that idea. Swapping over wheels thus deviating from that model's standard specification. Anyway wouldn't that introduce possible errors in speedo readings etc.
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No, provided you stick to one of the manufacturer's recommended wheel-tyre combinations. They're all about maintaining the correct rolling circumference - and leaving enough space for things like brakes and steering.
These recommendations have to apply across all markets, not just the UK. I saw a lot of big Volvos in Russia with what appeared to be 15-inch steel wheels, which haven't been offered new here for a decade or more.
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>> Anyway wouldn't that introduce possible errors in speedo readings etc.
>>
The dynamic rolling radius of 215/55 R16 tyres is 312mm compared to 314mm for 215/50 R17 tyres, i.e. a mere 0.6% less. This is well within the range of any changes that you might get for other reasons ~ tyre wear, tyre pressure etc. Despite this small change the dealer insisted on recalibrating the speedometer. One of their reasons for doing so was that the change might affect the warranty, should a claim ever be related to speedometer accuracy.
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>> You are obviously not aware of my requrements in these cars. The Titanium is about
>> the limit here in the range as anything higher gets lower profile tyre and fussy
>> wheels which are anathema to me. I think that my Golf's 205/55 R16 wheels are
>> about the limit and anything which detracts from ride comfort is a definite no no.
>>
>> Money-wise, I am not really worried as I have quite a lot of disposable cash
>> and always buy my new cars outright. If you are on a pension one does
>> want to be outlaying fixed amounts every month for a car even though it might
>> be zero finance - anyway that is my thinking.
>> I am in my middle 70's and my partner is 5 years older and so
>> we don't want our spines jarred by cars with hard, jiggly rides especially on our
>> appalling road surfaces riddled with potholes and patchwork repairs.
>>
Reading this made me curious, you can tell me to go away it's none of my business but how many miles per year do you drive ?
If it is a low mileage would taxis for local journeys and a hire car for the longer trips and breaks not be a better solution than a depreciating lump sum in the garage/on the drive way.
I can appreciate wanting the convenience of a car on the driveway for emergencies, again I don't know where you live or what kind of access you have to taxi services, but unless you had a critical requirement at 5pm on Christmas or New Year's eve would a taxi service not serve your motoring needs as well as having capital tied up ?
Just me thinking out loud.
I'm already thinking when my car dies I won't buy another, I'd hire a car for the four or five months in the winter when I can't use my bike. Yes, it is expensive in comparison with Fenlander's Alfa solution but if/when the car won't play ball it's not my problem just ring them up, tell them its broke and arrange to have another delivered while they take it away and do whatever they do to it.
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>> Reading this made me curious, you can tell me to go away it's none of
>> my business but how many miles per year do you drive ?
>>
>> If it is a low mileage would taxis for local journeys and a hire car
>> play ball it's not my problem just ring them up, tell them its broke and
>> arrange to have another delivered while they take it away and do whatever they do
>> to it.
>>
No problem here. I do fewer miles per year than I used to a few years ago and this has something to do with a change in my social life which has taken a plunge and so do less than 4000 miles per year now.
I just happen to like cars and and life in one of the leafier South London suburbs between Beckenham and Orpington. However, why should I suffer the inconvenience of taxis and buses (they are useful sometimes) when I can have my own car in the drive? At 75 a new car may, conceivable be the last car I ever drive.
Incidentally, suffering from agoraphobia to a samll degree means I don't travel as widely as I would have liked and indeed used to.
I haven't had a holiday of any sort in over forty years and so only use the cars for days out so that I can return home again, the same day.
Sob, sob.
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>>>expensive in comparison with Fenlander's Alfa solution
Never thought of the Alfa as a solution! If I could have presented it as a solution to Mrs F a 159 estate with tan leather could have been justified!
Seriously though despite the great enjoyment when it gets an outing there is a similar pleasure seeing it not move from Sunday to Thursday some weeks as I rush off on the bike each day here and there.
After a lifetime of depending on the car daily it's so relaxing not having to use it.
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>> After a lifetime of depending on the car daily it's so relaxing not having to
>> use it.
>>
I wasn't prying with Og and appreciate as people get older there may be a certain comfort knowing there is transport at the door 24/7.
Agree with you about not having to use a car every day.
My thinking with hire or short term lease is everything bundled into one short burst of payments and having the benefit of full backup and no additional costs. Hand it back and forget about it.
I could go for something like you did but with the ever more stringent requirements of MOT and not having the time to do the fettling I once did I'm happy to only use when needed and let someone else have the pleasure of managing the car.
Of course before the ink dries on the lease/hire paperwork I just know my mileage would immediately jump back up to rival Cptn. H D'Bouts Starship LEC intergalactic numbers.
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 10 Jul 13 at 20:13
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>> You are obviously not aware of my requrements in these cars.
>> I am in my middle 70's and my partner is 5 years older and so
>> we don't want our spines jarred by cars with hard, jiggly rides especially on our
>> appalling road surfaces riddled with potholes and patchwork repairs.
>>
We're in identical age brackets, and I have serious arthritic degeneration of my spine (including two fractured vertebrae) for which I have to take prescription painkillers three times daily. However, I intend to stay young in spirit and not let my bodily deterioration affect my enjoyment of spirited motoring ~ I have only another 12 months to go before the points on my licence expire!
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>> I intend to stay young in spirit and not let my bodily deterioration affect my
>> enjoyment of spirited motoring ~ I have only another 12 months to go before the
>> points on my licence expire!
>>
Hmmm. Methinks you are too sprited in your driving habit if you have points on your licence, whatever they are!!
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>> >> I intend to stay young in spirit and not let my bodily deterioration
>> affect my
>> >> enjoyment of spirited motoring ~ I have only another 12 months to go before
>> the
>> >> points on my licence expire!
>> >>
>>
>> Hmmm. Methinks you are too sprited in your driving habit if you have points on
>> your licence, whatever they are!!
>>
I could have opted to go on one of those speed awareness courses, but it would have cost more than the £60 fine and would have taken up a whole day to go to (and be talked down to at) a distant course centre.
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You don't get talked down to according to Mrs B. She said it was very informative.
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Agreed Mikey. I went on one years ago and I'm not ashamed to admit I learned things I didn't know. At no stage was it in any way patronising. In many ways it was in fact interesting, informative, useful and even, to an extent, enjoyable.
And you don't get points.
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>> Agreed Mikey. I went on one years ago and I'm not ashamed to admit I
>> learned things I didn't know. At no stage was it in any way patronising. In
>> many ways it was in fact interesting, informative, useful and even, to an extent, enjoyable.
>>
>>
>> And you don't get points.
>>
Agreed-and lasted just over an hour and was a five minute drive away-luckily for me.
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>> Agreed-and lasted just over an hour and was a five minute drive away-luckily for me.
The course offered to me was 4 hours long, 37 miles away, had the condition that I would not be allowed onto the course if I was late, cost £85, and I would have had to "make a positive contribution to the course" or be deemed to have failed. I happily opted for the fine of £60 instead.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 12 Jul 13 at 09:28
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So, less than an hour's drive away, half a day out of a retired person's life and 25 quid not to have points on your licence for 3 years. Ok...cool.
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Yes if West Mercia had offered me (they don't or didn't at the time) a course, instead of 3 points on me 25ish year clean licence, when they caught me with a camera van at 46mph in lorry on an wide open NSL A single carriage road (40mph limit applies) then i would have jumped at the chance.
No complaints about getting caught i've done worse and got away with it over the years, glad i didn't get caught at 80 on a 50 limit dual carriageway for instance not as one would, or a short one way chat with the Traffic Commisioner and licence revocation would have followed.
Think yourself lucky L'es, to maintain the lorry licence i've held for donkeys years i am in the middle of the DCPC (drivers certificate of professional;) competence), this comprises of 35 hours of classroom tuition over every 5 year period during which time we learn the square root of sod all, but its another box tickingh exercise which it seems is how everything in this country is going.
Fortunately my company pay for the course and we complete each day as a normal days work, but my company is in a tiny minority and those of us with an ounce of sense appreciate it all, most companies expect the driver to pay for their course or do it in their own time, some expect both.
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>>35 hours of classroom tuition over every 5 year period during which time we learn the square root of sod all,<<
Your firm need to change their trainer or training company then.
I shall be training this today and tomorrow and if my drivers don't learn anything from it, I would consider myself absolutely useless.
After four years of doing this I have found it's always the most anti drivers who learn the most;)
Pat
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>> I shall be training this today and tomorrow and if my drivers don't learn anything
>> from it, I would consider myself absolutely useless.
Well having a vested interest you would say that.
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There are good trainers and bad trainers, and training companies, just as surely as there are good drivers and bad drivers, or good employers and bad ones.
Pat is right: to hire in someone who's bad at what they do, when you could find someone good at the same job instead, makes no sense at all.
Edit: dragging the discussion back to Ford, in all markets there are also good and bad products, and companies who are known for good or bad service. To knowingly choose a bad product or service provider doesn't make much sense to me either...
Last edited by: Gromit on Fri 12 Jul 13 at 10:42
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No GB, you misunderstand....if my drivers don't say they have learned something from it.
Let's face it, no-one knows everything, after all.
The only vested interest I have is in doing a good job....whatever that job may be.
Pat
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>> No GB, you misunderstand....if my drivers don't say they have learned something from it.
My company have changed training outfits since i started my modules, this lot are are professional, but apart from bringing us up to dat on actual and proposed changes in the laws little else can really be taught that thoroughly in the classroom.
I'm all for training, if its of some benefit to road safety and to enable us to do our jobs better...don't forget our training is not aimed at newbys as the company does not employ them.
How can you teach a driver of several million miles experience:
How to improve their driving in the classroom, yes we've seen the slide pictures of the row of cyclists on the nearside and the view from the driver seat where not one of them was visible...but in reality the mirrors on the lorry in the pics were set by an idiot and the camera view from the drivers window ledge where only a dwarf sitting on the floor would be viewing from.
Even if the mirrors are set correctly which leaves NO blind spot, if the twerp won't use them before and whilst driving then cyclists are going to be hit.
Teach them that they no longer have to use the vehicles specifically fitted engine braking coupled with downshifts to help brake?..when the vehicle itself is fitted with fully auto downshifting combined with full engine barking at the press of a button, yet doing so manually is no longer right and they should use the brakes instead?
How do you educate a half wit who tailgaites constantly and uses the vehicle as a weapon to force through, you can't
Thats just three examples as you know there are dozens.
Far better and to counter the increasing number of lorry rollovers every single day would be to save the cost of 35 hours sitting on our ample backsides and use the costs instead for each and every lorry driver to attend a proper on site rollover course, with fully loaded lorries fitted with stabilisers so every lorry driver has to actually experience a rollover without the thing going fully over, what provokes it and exacerbates it and what helps prevent it.
We learn more in the classroom discussing things among ourselves, and to be fair that how the new lot do it, controlled discussions form a lot of the day and we actually do get something from, ring bells?
Not one of the trainers has known anything about correct loading of artics for stability, concerning priorities for wet and icy weather loading and driving practicalities concerning tag or lift axle use...but then they wouldn't cos not one of them so far has spent even a tenth of the time you have actually doing the job.
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I will reply fully to this after the busy weekend as I'm starting at 6am today to avoid the heat and give my drivers the maximum time off this weekend.
Pat
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The OP says >>Why do people hijack threads on these forums? If they are bored with the subject matter then start their own.<<
Well, that's me well and truly put in my place. I shall go and sit on the naughty step in a transport café somewhere until GB rolls in for a 45, and we'll continue our discussion then:)
I do humbly apologise Oldgit, I know my place.
Pat
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I did a course last year and wrote about it on here. It was nothing at all like I was expecting it to be.
In my humble opinion people who think they can't learn anything from a speed awareness course fall into two categories. They either really do know everything (which is so unlikely as to be pretty much impossible), or far more likely simply suffer from a very closed mind which is incompatible with a constantly developing skill like the ability to safely and competently operate a motor vehicle.
Of course I'd rather not have given up a morning of my valuable time, but I broke a posted speed limit which was my own stupid fault. When I got to the course I learned a heck of a lot. So did most of the other members. The handful that thought they were somehow above it, and who disagreed with the instructor in a vain attempt to look big and clever, simply looked very silly indeed as they argued themselves in knots.
We can all learn something.
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>> So, less than an hour's drive away, half a day out of a retired person's
>> life and 25 quid ..............
At least I never whinge about parking "fines"!
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>> >> So, less than an hour's drive away, half a day out of a retired
>> person's
>> >> life and 25 quid ..............
>>
Sounds like a pleasant, cheap day out, is there somewhere decent to have lunch nearby? :-)
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>> You don't get talked down to according to Mrs B. She said it was very
>> informative.
>>
What can they tell you except that if you're caught exceeding a speed limit then you risk the consequences, and point out that on the occasion in question you've been caught?
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 12 Jul 13 at 06:36
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Several people have reported on them here, l'Es. Suggest you have a look back at those. To me it seems a lot like the information I got from an expensive defensive intensive comprehensive driving course my employer paid for years ago - without the practical element, of course. Far less scoffworthy than you might imagine.
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Yes, I've been on one and the Mrs has been on, cough, two. Brilliant things. I reckon she's properly cottoned on about speed limits and defensive driving now.
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>> >>
>>
>> What can they tell you except that if you're caught exceeding a speed limit then
>> you risk the consequences, and point out that on the occasion in question you've been
>> caught?
>>
That was not even mentioned!
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>> What can they tell you except that if you're caught exceeding a speed limit then
>> you risk the consequences, and point out that on the occasion in question you've been
>> caught?
I can only speak from the experience of my course, but it included:
1) How much of a difference a few extra mph makes to stopping distance
2) How much of a difference a few extra mph makes to your risk of killing someone
3) Photos of real accident sites (no gore or blood), with open questions of how you would approach a given scenario, speed, road positioning etc.
4) How to use lanes and position yourself on the road correctly.
5) How to use visual cues to determine likely out-of-sight hazards, road direction, and best course of action to take in each situation (and it wasn't necessarily "slow down").
6) Group discussions relating to how we perceive and deal with different scenarios, in which we were encouraged to be open and honest. No "right or wrong", just gentle suggestions for improvement or other ways we might approach things.
So much more than a lecture.
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Why do people hijack threads on these forums? If they are bored with the subject matter then start their own.
Anyway I visited Jemca Toyota yesterday and looked at the Auris Icon. Quite nice but when you look at what you don't get for the price then you realise that you only get what you pay for.
The devil was in the detail again.
Now back to the thread, please.
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I wouldn't say hijacked, more just drifts to other topics much like normal conversions.
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Don't be prissy, OG. It's a discussion in a public place, not a committee meeting and not your personal property. Within reason, we'll talk about whatever occurs to us. You're entitled to start a thread but not to dictate where it will lead.
Besides, discovery lies in venturing off-track once in a while. Imagine Fleming finding his contaminated plates and throwing them away because they weren't what he was looking for.
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Quite like a bit of thread drift myself. Most of the interesting posts on here aren't about the original topic at all.
As for the original topic having been driving around Albert and British Columbia for the past three weeks in a Kia Forte I can a categorically say that I would have been more than happy to part with that loathsome piece of malformed tin with its ill fitting boot lid and doors that wouldn't remain open for a Ford.
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>> Why do people hijack threads on these forums? If they are bored with the subject
>> matter then start their own.
Probably in this case OG we all know as do you that you want to and are going to buy another Golf, and there's nothing wrong with that its your money after all, it will have an electric parking brake that you don't want but you'll still buy it anyway.
You'll be used to the electric brake in matter of days and probably quite enjoy it and wouldn;t go back to a normal one, its long term durability really doesn't matter cos you'll probably replace it again with another Golf before it fails.
Nice car, hope it pleases you as much as the last one.
Sorry about the thread drift if it upsets.
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>> and are going to buy another Golf, and there's nothing wrong with that its your
>> money after all, it will have an electric parking brake that you don't want but
>> you'll still buy it anyway.
>> You'll be used to the electric brake in matter of days and probably quite enjoy
>> it and wouldn;t go back to a normal one, its long term durability really doesn't
>> matter cos you'll probably replace it again with another Golf before it fails.
>>
>> Nice car, hope it pleases you as much as the last one.
>>
>> Sorry about the thread drift if it upsets.
>>
God, I didn't realise that it was that obvious. Still VW have to sort out the wiper problem that they seem to have on their new model, according to the enthusiats on the VW forums. Can't have a car that smear on the windscreen because of a design fault. That is the trouble with buying a new model a few months after it has become available.
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Can't have a car that smear on the windscreen because
>> of a design fault.
Not a member of those forums OG and the enthusiasts sound like they might have too much spare time and money on their hands-:) whats the problem?
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Well I have read these complaints and it seems that the driver's blade at the extremity of the upstroke doesn't clear the water properly leaving the windscreen 'smeary' and making vision particulary in the dark rather dangerous (my words).
So far dealers have tried arm re-alignment, arm replacement and tried new and different blades. A cleaning pack for the glass has even been supplied indicating a glass problem! And I am sure that someone had their windscreen replaced.
All rather unsettling for something you would have thought would have been picked up in the testing stage. However we Golf owners are rather fussy about our cars.
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However we Golf owners are rather fussy about our cars.
>>
You have every right to be, its supposed to be top notch so having the screen swept properly for the cost of the thing is not a lot to ask.
Am i the only one who often finds new blades smear badly, i usually clean them well before fitting.
Another regular cause of smearing/juddering is the wax content of wash/wax shampoo, if the problem is bad i keep a solution of other wax free cleaner (such as standard TFR) to wash the screen with before final rinse off, after a few washes that usually cures the problem.
Anther cure, and this is one for the OCD's among us is the 'parking' issue, when the blades park they are invariably obviously on a lean, flicking them back the other way every now and then for a long spell whilst not in use will straighten them up again, i do this on my lorries and my wipers work perfectly and silently, use someone elses and that lean can see the wipers permanently going both ways without flicking over leading to the worlds worse wiper juddering and useless screen clearing.
That last sentence isn't a wind up by the way, it works.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sat 13 Jul 13 at 10:20
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>> However we Golf owners are rather fussy about our cars.
>> >>
>>
>> You have every right to be, its supposed to be top notch so having the
>> screen swept properly for the cost of the thing is not a lot to ask.
Here is the link from one of the forum but not the best one however.
www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4926#post4926
Incidentally I am quite well aware of dirty/greasy windscreen and their cure. I normally wet the screen thoroughly with water and then can see what state it is in. If the glass doesn't wet properly all over then I wash it down thoroughly with water to make sure there is no grit present and then dry it off with a leather.
The next step is much elbow grease using as soft cloth and Silvo (The silver/silver plate cleaner). This is worked well into the glass in limited areas until dry and then buffed off. After the whole screen has been done (phew!) water is then applied and with a leather rubbed dry to remove a deposit left by the dried Silvo. My glass after that wets perfectly and you get silent wiper operation.
No proprietary window cleaner I have ever bought comes close to these results.
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>> All rather unsettling for something you would have thought would have been picked up in
>> the testing stage. However we Golf owners are rather fussy about our cars.
No it means they will still sell millions because owners will buy any old crap with a VW badge, because the buttons have the right feel.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 14 Jul 13 at 08:56
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>> God, I didn't realise that it was that obvious.
‘Fraid so, I think it was the:
“Well this afternoon I went to my local main dealer Bristol St Motors to have another look at the Focus Titanium but they didn't have one so I spent plenty of time looking at details of the slighly lowlier models and was surprised to find that there was not on/off wheel for shutting off air to the side vents and yet there was on other Ford cars such as the Kuga. I would have thought this an essential as one doesn't always want air out of these vents all the time and altering the distribution would not solve the problem.”
And the:
“I, too don't like the idea of the ebrake on the new Golf especially on a manual transmission. People tell me that I'll get used to it but why should I have to just to make more room in the centre console for storing more junk. It's nonsense, quite frankly.”
And:
“Well I have read these complaints and it seems that the driver's blade at the extremity of the upstroke doesn't clear the water properly leaving the windscreen 'smeary' and making vision particulary in the dark rather dangerous (my words).
So far dealers have tried arm re-alignment, arm replacement and tried new and different blades. A cleaning pack for the glass has even been supplied indicating a glass problem! And I am sure that someone had their windscreen replaced.
All rather unsettling for something you would have thought would have been picked up in the testing stage. However we Golf owners are rather fussy about our cars”
Which gave it away. Happy to reject a car for not having immediately intuitive air vents but happy to compromise on major functions and visibility. Nowt as queer as folk as some might say.
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>>Now back to the thread, please.
G string.
:o}
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OG, why don't you look at an Octavia? It's the same car as the Golf, without the e-brake. I'm suprised you haven't seeing as you're so keen on the VAG platform.
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If the VAG cars came with Ford badges (assuming a hypothetical Ford buyout) would the VAG worshipers still buy them?
Or are they buying a badge?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 13 Jul 13 at 12:38
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>> If the VAG cars came with Ford badges (assuming a hypothetical Ford buyout) would the
>> VAG worshipers still buy them?
>>
>> Or are they buying a badge?
>>
Not really buying a badge. I thought that the MK4 was a load of crap tbh. I know it was very successful and sold millions but it was flawed in so many ways. It was only when the MK5 came along I thought "thank goodness, a decent Golf at last"
There is no doubt, that recent car hunting has shown that others seem not to get it quite right in the areas that matter to me i.e. a nice understated interior with controls that, in the main, have a nice feel and are unambiguous in their opeation, although my heater controls could have been better designed.
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Although the Octavia is on the same platform as the Golf, it's quite a lot bigger, and the Mark 3 is longer still.
Have you thought of downsizing to a Polo, Oldgit? Or a Skoda Fabia? I suggested the Volvo V40 upthread but if you find the Leon gloomy you may think the same about the V40, whose rear visibility is very poor.
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Isn't the V40 based on the Focus platform? Are you trying to wind up the VAG devotees?
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in reply to the original question, a big, fat no! Never again.
The cars are OK for the money, but the dealers.................I owned several Fords from 1983 to 2003 and what consistently annoyed me (with one honourable exception - Cordiners, Aberdeen) was that none of them seemed to know they were doing, particularly from a service point of view - mechanics/receptionists/managers - the whole lot of them.
My wife has to have Fords as her work-supplied vehicle and from her experiences, nothing has changed in the last 10 years. A leaking windscreen flooding the footwells - here's a box of tissues to mop the water up with. Telling her that a courtesy car was diesel when in fact it was petrol. Warranty work on rear drums - front shocks were changed. Can't fit your service in for another two weeks - yet her bosses boss phoned the following morning and booked his in for the following day - but then he was involved with negotiating the vehicle leases. I could go on but it sound as if I'm ranting.
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Sorry - to keen to post - there's a "what" missing from the second paragraph. Must have been 'cos I was ranting. Time for the pills and a lie down.
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It's the heat. Go and lie in a hammock in the shade. Couple of hours and you'll be right as rain.
Shirley the answer is to buy a Ford a few years old and go to a good local garage.
I've had a few older Fords (I mean '76 and '84) and liked them both. If it suited my needs, I'd buy another. One thing that seems to be weak on the later models are the alternators. I know three people who have had them replaced. Just bad quality ancillaries maybe.
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>> Why do people hijack threads on these forums? If they are bored with the subject
>> matter then start their own.
Threads do not get "hijacked" they develop. If you don't like it find another forum where threads are pruned, chopped, trimmed and moderated to within an inch of their sterile existence.
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>> If you don't like it find another forum where threads are pruned, chopped, trimmed and moderated to within an inch of their sterile existence.
Or move to Cyprus: cyprus-mail.com/2013/07/14/its-a-miracle-we-havent-mourned-any-victims/#prettyPhoto
Slight thread drift, sorry.
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>> Threads do not get "hijacked" they develop. If you don't like it find another forum
>> where threads are pruned, chopped, trimmed and moderated to within an inch of their sterile existence.
>>
I hate forums like that, are hateful, boring, and full of know-it-alls who in fact know less than zero nothing....
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>> I hate forums like that, are hateful, boring, and full of know-it-alls who in fact
>> know less than zero nothing....
Never mind, keep taking the prozac....
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>> Why do people hijack threads on these forums? If they are bored with the subject
>> matter then start their own.
>>
One of the joys of this site is that threads are like conversations and develop interesting tangents. Appreciate though that diversions make life difficult in those cases where OP is seeking real information rather than debate.
The mod's regular 'now back to motoring' was a massive irritation in early days of HJ
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>> >> Why do people hijack threads on these forums? If they are bored with the
>> subject
>> >> matter then start their own.
>> >>
>>
>> One of the joys of this site is that threads are like conversations and develop
>> interesting tangents. Appreciate though that diversions make life difficult in those cases where OP is
>> seeking real information rather than debate.
>>
>> The mod's regular 'now back to motoring' was a massive irritation in early days of
>> HJ
I think, and it does work, that an OP is responsible for keeping his own thread on track. Sure sub plots develop, but you can always haul it back on topic at any point.
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I forgot (a few posts above) to mention the Skoda Rapid, if the Fabia is too small, the Octavia too big and you want a proper handbrake.
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I doubt the rapid would meet OG needs. It seems he has a set of requirements for the interior I doubt the rapid could meet. It's aimed at taking sales from Kia and Hyundai, not sure it's what he is looking for. As above OG is looking for reasons to buy a Golf rather than really looking to change. I quite like the Rapid though looks nice on the outside, a bit plain and functional on the inside but still I'd look at one.
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>> I doubt the rapid would meet OG needs. It seems he has a set of
>> requirements for the interior I doubt the rapid could meet. It's aimed at taking sales
>> from Kia and Hyundai, not sure it's what he is looking for. As above OG
>> is looking for reasons to buy a Golf rather than really looking to change. I
>> quite like the Rapid though looks nice on the outside, a bit plain and functional
>> on the inside but still I'd look at one.
>>
I have looked at the Rapid online and from the pictures, I can only say about the interior "Oh, dear, how dreary."
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V40 was mentioned above. OG, have you looked at the C30? It's a good size alternative to a 3 door Golf and Volvo's interiors are top notch.
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The C30 is just a fastback Focus with Volvo badges.
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Well I did look at the V40 but is seemed expensive and has that narrow glass look with a rising back and therefore limited visibility. Also has, I believe that fiddly floating centre console control panel with a plethora of buttons.
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Fair enough, OG, so what about a Polo? If you've already discounted this, it does look like another Golf. And I think you'd be very happy with one. A GTI is on my short list.
PS - I agree entirely with Bromptonaut and Zero above about thread drift. We happily go along with it on HJ now - as do the mods on here clearly. Sometimes if I think the original topic was more interesting, or someone is asking for advice and not getting it, I'll post something on topic but without being didactic about it.
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>> Fair enough, OG, so what about a Polo? If you've already discounted this, it does
>> look like another Golf. And I think you'd be very happy with one. A GTI
>> is on my short list.
>>
>> PS - I agree entirely with Bromptonaut and Zero above about thread drift. We happily
>> go along with it on HJ now - as do the mods on here clearly.
>> Sometimes if I think the original topic was more interesting, or someone is asking for
>> advice and not getting it, I'll post something on topic but without being didactic about
>> it.
>>
Yes I have considered a more upmarket Polo without getting into the realms of sporty ones, low profile tyres and bone shaking suspension.
Earlier this year when my car was in dock for rear apron repair and subsequent water ingress via boot air venting flap, i was given two courtesy cars but with the 3 cyl engines - yuk. Funnily both cars had alloys, privacy glass and generally rather more than I would have expected but strangely, one road well and the other did not and I don't know why this was. Both were Sept 2012 reg. cars and low mileage.
Sent from my Galaxy Tablet.
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And the C30 is no longer made.
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>>
>> I have looked at the Rapid online and from the pictures, I can only say
>> about the interior "Oh, dear, how dreary."
>>
I thought it was plain and functional like other VW, Skoda, Seat etc but each to their own.
Have you hired the car you wished to buy, see if you could live with e-handbrake, you might find yourself getting better with it than you think?
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>>
>> >>
>> >> I have looked at the Rapid online and from the pictures, I can only
>> say
>> >> about the interior "Oh, dear, how dreary."
>> >>
>>
>> I thought it was plain and functional like other VW, Skoda, Seat etc but each
>> to their own.
>>
>> Have you hired the car you wished to buy, see if you could live with
>> e-handbrake, you might find yourself getting better with it than you think?
>>
Easier said than done when spare cars are as scarse as hen's teeth. The new Golf has only been available for order since the beginning of this year. Each dealer has only a demonstrator or two plus anything in the showrooms.
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>> Easier said than done when spare cars are as scarse as hen's teeth. The new
>> Golf has only been available for order since the beginning of this year. Each dealer
>> has only a demonstrator or two plus anything in the showrooms.
>>
Hang on until they become available with the hire car companies?
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>>
>> >> Easier said than done when spare cars are as scarse as hen's teeth. The
>> new
>> >> Golf has only been available for order since the beginning of this year. Each
>> dealer
>> >> has only a demonstrator or two plus anything in the showrooms.
>> >>
>>
>> Hang on until they become available with the hire car companies?
>>
Yes, of course, how silly of me, thinking I would hire from a garage. Will check with the big rental companies.
Thanks
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>> >>
>> >> >> Easier said than done when spare cars are as scarse as hen's teeth.
>> The
>> >> new
>> >> >> Golf has only been available for order since the beginning of this year.
>> Each
>> >> dealer
>> >> >> has only a demonstrator or two plus anything in the showrooms.
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hang on until they become available with the hire car companies?
>> >>
>>
>> Yes, of course, how silly of me, thinking I would hire from a garage. Will
>> check with the big rental companies.
>> Thanks
>>
Why do people not read the message when quoting a previous post and delete the unwanted text?
It really annoys me but I try not to get tetchy about it;)
Pat
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Which is a good thing surely ? As soon as cars go onto hire fleets their residuals suffer. Hopefully it'll just be low power and spec manuals on the hire fleets anyway, should choose the derivative wisely unless you plan to keep the car a while or buy new-ish second hand.
OG - when will you order your Golf ? I'm sure the electronic handbrake will be just fine once you get used to it ;-)
Separately, I understand the Rapid to be related to the Jetta which (for some reason) gets much worse reviews than the Golf, IIRC this might have something to do with them being designed for the US and South American markets where they're a budget car.
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>> OG - when will you order your Golf ? I'm sure the electronic handbrake will
>> be just fine once you get used to it ;-)
I hope my editing has assuaged those that get annoyed here!!
Anyway regarding your question and assuming I settle for a Golf 1.4TSI SE with sunroof etc then i expect, like my current one to have to wait for at least 4+ months for a factory order which really pees me off tbh. However, I could considere ordering later this year for a 2014 registration plate.
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Have read this thread with interest, if my memory serves me right Oldgit you ordered one of your previous Golfs without ever having driven it as it was a new model? Not sure if that was back in HJ days!!
The Golf, to me, has always been the car that folks buy because they don't know any better. For the same price you will get one that is faster, more economical, better spec etc etc. But the Golf obviously sells well and OG is perhaps a perfect example of their typical customer?
OG obviously has his own unique set of circumstances, cash buyer, not interested in ex dealer or using a broker, most likely due to his insistence in having a sunroof. After having 7 cars in a row with a sunroof, my present car doesn't and it is definitely on the list for the next car. But I can't say it would be a necessity.
It may cost, say £500 to spec a sunroof but as a result you are having to go for new build whereas without the sunroof you could maybe go broker, or dealer demo and save a couple of grand, therefore the sunroof could be seen to be costing you the couple of grand rather than the £500 or whatever.
My indie mechanic swears by VAG cars - he prefers them to the current Ford range and thereafter he doesn't have any time for French or even BMW / Merc. He says the BMW Mini is one of the worst put together cars he has ever worked on.
Finally, my pal rolled up in his new car on Froday - a 60 plate Golf TSI. OK it was one of the basic models (had wheeltrims) but I just thought the whole inside of the car was so dated and so unappealing. Others may call this functional, each to their own!!
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>> The Golf, to me, has always been the car that folks buy because they don't
>> know any better. For the same price you will get one that is faster, more
>> economical, better spec etc etc. But the Golf obviously sells well and OG is perhaps
>> a perfect example of their typical customer?
I'm not a Golf customer, but my take on it is that, while other cars might be cheaper/faster/more economical/better equipped etc, the Golf is, for a lot of people, the best blend of all all those attributes.
We had a new Golf from Avis when we were in Italy earlier in the year. Disappointing, as we'd expected (and booked) a Cincequento. Well, when in Italy... ;-) Actually I thought the Golf, in 1.6 TDI Bluemotion Comfort form (which from what I could work out is somewhere between S and SE in UK terms), was an impressive car. It was spacious and comfortable, and it rode well on its 16" 55 profile wheels/tyres. Brisk enough and it pulled well on the hilly autostrada. Fuel economy wasn't great, but it was brand new car - just 11kms on the clock - and of course it was a hire car...
All in all very competent, albeit with a slightly dull (though well put together) interior. If I needed a car in that class I think it'd be pretty high on my list, though I think a BMW 1 series might topple it, despite its somewhat challenging looks...
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What on earth can I say to the above two posts?
I appreciate a car that is understated in its design and especially when it's applied to the interior.
My current MK6 Golf, now almost four years old was indeed ordered without a test drive as I couldn't really see the point in just a drive around the block in the congested area of my Bromley local dealer.
My previous Golf MK5 did have a test drive of about three miles from the Sevenoaks branch and back. Completely useless and the example seemed rough but I ordered one anyway and was overjoyed by it and even moreso by the MK6. Whether the MK7 continues in this vein remains to be seen.
A BMW Series 1 has a far inferior interior with respect to finish and amount of space especially in the driver's footwell where there is nowhere to put you clutch pedal foot and I sure, if I remember correctly that the pedals were offset.
Last edited by: Oldgit on Mon 15 Jul 13 at 19:19
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>> What on earth can I say to the above two posts?
>> My current MK6 Golf, now almost four years old was indeed ordered without a test
>> drive as I couldn't really see the point in just a drive around the block
>> in the congested area of my Bromley local dealer.
>> My previous Golf MK5 did have a test drive of about three miles from the
>> Sevenoaks branch and back. **Completely useless and the example seemed rough but I ordered one anyway**
Sorry OG but i'm lost, what on earth can one say about your post, i'm almost speechless.
Hope the mk7 and its electric brake which you didn't want turn out OK.
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Or like someone who blindly supports a political party because their dad did or they always have?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 15 Jul 13 at 20:56
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I have some sympathy with OG's approach. I wouldn't go so far as to say there is no such thing as a bad car nowadays, but most of them will do the job for which they were intended.
It's difficult to know what a car is like to live with, until you live with it. We had the C1 discussion recently and most of us seemed to like it.
So did I, for over a week. After nearly three weeks the only features that stood out were the drone, and the sheer lack of go.
A serial VW owner will have a fair idea what they are like on a long term basis. It makes it a lower risk choice, especially if the car might be kept for a good few years - and in the case of a new model Gold, if that isn't the case, it should have a reasonable resale value.
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>> I have some sympathy with OG's approach.
>>
So do I, and each to their own, etc.
But if you have such a fixed mindset, why bother starting a thread seeking alternative recommendations from the forum. You're just a big tease, OG!
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>> >> I have some sympathy with OG's approach.
>> >>
>>
>> So do I, and each to their own, etc.
>>
>> But if you have such a fixed mindset, why bother starting a thread seeking alternative
>> recommendations from the forum. You're just a big tease, OG!
>>
Sorry about that. Instead I could have started one of those many boring old threads asking to recommend a car for myself, girlfriend or any othe person under the sun. I keep well away from those people who cannot be bothered to think for themselves.
Lazy or what?
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>> Ideal VW Golf customer?
>>
I have to take issue with you Bobby, and yes I am a Golf owner - we currently have our 3rd. In truth they've always been our second car driven by my wife who likes them as they're class-less. Meanwhile I've had a range of Fords, Vauxhalls, Audis and BMWs so I can compare. Also, SWMBO (at my insistence) has interspersed Golf ownership with a Focus and a Civic FK3.
Many road testers sum up the Golf (VI and VII at least) as 'all the car you actually ever need' (to paraphrase). So, a Golf might be ubiquitous, but I'd contend it is often bought as a rational purchase by people who do understand the car's capabilities and not out of ignorance as your earlier posts seem to imply.
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Silly idea perhaps, but if you like the Golf you have, why not keep it?
The mk7 is going to represent a subtle evolution of the mk6, just as the 6 did over the 5, 5 over the 4 and so on. That's the thing with Golfs, the updates are always conservative and subtle, which gives you a great advantage in that the older ones age really well.
You aren't going to get any great leap forward by changing your 6 for a 7, and if you do so, you are going to be forced to live with features that, by your own admission, you don't want.
So why bother?
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Thats a very good point DP, indeed if i recall OG recently fitted a set of new tyres in an attempt to cure one of the mk6's regular complaints about rear end noise, so already invested in his own cars next 3 years.
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>> Thats a very good point DP, indeed if i recall OG recently fitted a set
>> of new tyres in an attempt to cure one of the mk6's regular complaints about
>> rear end noise, so already invested in his own cars next 3 years.
>>
Yes all you both say is true of course but I get itchy feet after about 4 years. However, the MK7's new fangled technology is getting a bit OTT now, even for myself who does like his toys.
However I have only covered 17k miles since purchase and so what you say does make sense. In any case I am certainly going to wait until I hear more positive news about this windscreen wiper problem and whether VW even acknowledge that it exists and offers a solution. One would have thought that in the 21st century, wiper technology and testing procedures would have picked this up but no manufacturer is infallible, even the great VAG.
The new Golf certainly has more standard features, especially the SE, compared to other marques of similar price (I assume, anyway). However as options, I would have to specify folding door mirrors and F+R parking sensors and then maybe their expensive panoramic sunroof (amost a grand!)
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OG, I too get itchy feet, usually about 6 months after I've bought a car if I'm honest and have regularly changed my cars at 2 years old for the past 20-odd years. Probably wasted 10s of thousands of pounds but then I don't waste money in other ways.
The ONLY cars I've kept for longer than 2 years were a Mondeo III (so a Ford) because it was a really good car, a Golf IV (because SWMBO liked it, only did 20K miles in 5 years and we regretted changing it for a Focus). I probably intended to keep my 330d and our first Golf VI longer but work assignment abroad put paid to that. Currently, after 10 months I have no desire to change our Golf VI even though I'd have ideally waited for a VII, this augurs well and provided it stays reliable then it's a keeper - well at least until it's 3 or maybe 4, any more would be 'pushing it' for me anyway ;-)
I wouldn't worry too much about the electricery in the new VII, sensors and actuators are everywhere in the world these days, an actuator can be programmed to follow a much more complex movement than any mechanical device and arguably has fewer moving parts to fail. The adage in my professions is 'software eventually works and hardware eventually fails'.
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>> >> no manufacturer is infallible, even the
>> great VAG.
Not that great, they had water leaks from scuttles and door seals for years, as well as failed electrical components
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The new Golf certainly has more standard features, especially the SE, compared to other marques of similar price (I assume, anyway).
Don't understand this statement, OG. Either it's certain or you're assuming it; can't both be true.
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I've just bought a new Fiesta-only a Zetec so not the highest level of trim/extras.If there were many more features,I doubt the car could move.Read the specifications,don't assume.Anyway,the last good VW was air-cooled.
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>> I've just bought a new Fiesta-only a Zetec so not the highest level of trim/extras.If
>> there were many more features,I doubt the car could move.Read the specifications,don't assume.Anyway,the last good
>> VW was air-cooled.
>>
Oh, you're one of those are you?
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>> The new Golf certainly has more standard features, especially the SE, compared to other marques
>> of similar price (I assume, anyway).
Your assumption is wrong. As was your earlier statement about pricing. Lets be brutally honest here, you never had any intention of going for anything other than a Golf (don't argue that point, its perfectly clear - I don't want to cut and paste all the proof from the rest of this thread) which is fair enough, your prerogative, no argument there, but dont try and justify it with silly picky inaccurate "facts" about the alternatives.
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>> The new Golf certainly has more standard features, especially the SE, compared to other marques
>> of similar price (I assume, anyway).
>>
>> Don't understand this statement, OG. Either it's certain or you're assuming it; can't both be
>> true.
>>
Neither do I (undestand what I said - my brain's fried by this awful heat).
The SE as standard has a lot of gizmos on it but not parking sensors/retractable mirrors as standard therefore would need to specify these in a factory order, assuming the car, in my preferred colour engine size wasn't hanging around in some car pound somewhere, with these extras.
Move on.
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Checked the build date on my car-ONE week before registration and build was in Cologne.
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My Mum has a leased Mondeo estate TDCI, it seems a decent car to me. It's a bit of a workhorse but it has not given any problems, always starts and gets her to places and back again. If I had to choose I prefer the seats in the Scenic, the Ford seats are firmer. I suppose it depends on what suits your frame. Both engines are quiet and powerful. The Mondeo seems a perfectly respectable car to me.
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Just replaced a 10 year old Passat saloon with a new entry level spec diesel Mondeo estate having tried out equivalent spec Passat, new Octavia and Avensis 1.8 petrol. Avensis was first to go then the Passat and finally the Octavia which was nicer inside than the Mondeo but not as good to drive and no more refined on the motorway at the limit in fact a bit less so. Clincher was the Mondeo was thousands less than any of them which tbh it needs to be given depreciation but the others aren't that brilliant at retaining value. Last had a Mondeo in 2001, 2.0 petrol bought at auction for £1k and ran for 3 years and 70k miles with just oil and filter changes.
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Any news, Oldgit, or are you persuaded to keep your Golf a little longer? In your position I think (assuming an Octavia is bigger than you need) I'd look at a SEAT Leon - a Golf without some of the electronic trickery that you don't want.
Apologies if that's been suggested above - too long a thread to look through at this time of night!
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>> Having now owned two new Golfs in a row and not really smitten with the
>> over endowed MK7 I was thinking of leaving the VAG stable so to speak and
>> defecting to Ford and considering part exchanging mine for, say, a new Focus 1.6 Ecoboost
>> 'Titanium'.
>> ................
>> Now, would this car satisfy me in the same way my current MK6 1.4 TSI
>> Golf does?
>>
The 1.6 litre Ecoboost engine available in the Focus Titanium is the 150ps version, which gives 0-62 mph in 8.6 seconds and 130 mph top speed. The question you need to ask yourself is ~ would that be enough to satisfy you?
www.ford.co.uk/Hidden/iBrochure/Focus
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How does the panel think Ford will do with its new Vignale range of up market cars aimed at the German premium brands?
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Could turn out rather well.
According to the Telegraph article about this initiative, the cars will come with lifetime valeting, access to airport lounges and a "concierge service" - I wonder what that will include?
I'd be tempted if I had the money for one.
I always had a soft spot for Fords, particularly Ghias, and this looks like a step up from that. I'd far rather have a Ford "Vignale" than a Merc or an Audi, to be frank. But that's just my weird anti-brand snobbery gene showing its bizarre visage.
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Would you change to Ford? - Runfer D'Hills
