Motoring Discussion > Cars you never knew about Miscellaneous
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 09:18 
 Cars you never knew about - -
Replying to another thread about similar and thought this subject might deserve its own place.

Couple spring to mind.

Citroen C2 VTS was common enough, but rare fitted with the 110hp HDi engine, we owned one for 2 years, surprisingly rapid and frugal if you can stand the ride and road noise.

Toyota offered the Yaris SR for only a while around 2008/9 with the 1.8 petrol chain cam engine, this car would have been better for us than the C2 had we known.

Both these cases i should have known existed, i used to deliver both makes but so rare were they that i never knew about either at the time.

Any more interesting motors that slip through the net?
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 10:17 
 Cars you never knew about - Dog
I'd never heard of a Wanderer until about 2 hours ago gb:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Autounion-Wanderer1936.jpg
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 11:04 
 Cars you never knew about - Avant
I sometimes wonder what motivates Toyota GB.

The Yaris must have been very lively with the 1.8 engine: we hired an Auris a few years ago in New Zealand (called there, much more sensibly, Corolla) with that engine and it went very well. Toyota also used to offer the Auris here with the 2.0 diesel engine. I had a two-day test drive of one of those and liked it a lot.

But they stopped selling it, and I've no idea why. And they've never to my knowledge offered the Auris with the 1.8 petrol.
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 11:15 
 Cars you never knew about - Avant
That Wanderer looks lovely - thanks Dog.

I wonder if there's a true 'spiritual successor' to those splendid 1930s grand touring 'drophead coupes' made by the likes of Lagonda, Bentley, Railton, BMW etc as well as Auto Union.

My old BMW Z3 was a bit in that mould, so perhaps the Z4 - I haven't tried one. Mercedes E-class convertible? Jaguar F-type - or is that more of an out-and-out sports car?
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 11:26 
 Cars you never knew about - corax
I never knew that Toyota offered a mid sized estate with the superb Yamaha designed 2.0 turbo from the MR2 and Celica complete with four wheel drive. The Caldina estate. But it was an import, never offered here.

My sort of car, but then I'd be in the minority.

There's many cars that don't make it here as a result of marketing decisions.

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 Sat 6 Jul 13 11:46 
 Cars you never knew about - Zero
I was tempted, really tempted, to grey import the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo sports wagon. Essentially the same body as mine, slapped on evo 7 mechanicals and running gear. Rare as hens teeth. The ultimate Q car.
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 13:37 
 Cars you never knew about - corax
>> The ultimate Q car.

I've seen a couple of those in a Jap magazine. Brilliant cars.
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 18:34 
 Cars you never knew about - MD
>> >> The ultimate Q car.
>>
>> I've seen a couple of those in a Jap magazine. Brilliant cars.
>>
Do they need keys?
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      2  
 Sat 6 Jul 13 11:47 
 Cars you never knew about - -
Well thats two of us Corax, though arguably you find those of different tastes to the norm at a place like this....i'll look the Caldins up.

edit, great idea Z, the Skyline estate (forgot its name...no its skygea or something like that) is simply too long and the Imprezza estate just never looked right.

Beautiful cars those pre war monsters.

If i had Luds money this repro would sitting on our driveway, could there be a better way to take a spin...www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C221615
Actually between you and me SWMBO would be prepared to remortgage for this and its me thats stopping us.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sat 6 Jul 13 at 11:51
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 13:42 
 Cars you never knew about - corax
>> If i had Luds money this repro would sitting on our driveway, could there be
>> a better way to take a spin...www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C221615

How much? For a replica?

>> Actually between you and me SWMBO would be prepared to remortgage for this and its
>> me thats stopping us.

Er, I think common sense should prevail when you're talking those prices. Unless you're Richard Branson :)
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 14:04 
 Cars you never knew about - Zero
>> >> If i had Luds money this repro would sitting on our driveway, could there
>> be
>> >> a better way to take a spin...www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C221615

Wouldn't be on mine. Anytime anyone clapped eyes on that incongruous american "T" shifter, those hideous American style seats, and that ridiculous boy racer steering wheel, I would die of shame and embarrassment.
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 12:44 
 Cars you never knew about - Dog
>>That Wanderer looks lovely - thanks Dog.

I stumbled upon that Wanderer, Avant, when after reading what W De Beest wrote "that was before Audi became the fashion brand it (rather oddly) is today" on the Crap Driving Rant, it reminded me of when I tuned an old but rather nice Auto Union car back in the early 80's, and so I decied to look em up on Wiki.
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 13:56 
 Cars you never knew about - NortonES2
How about an American oddity: the 7 litre fwd Oldsmobile Toronado. Bet not many sold over here!
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 14:05 
 Cars you never knew about - Fenlander
By chance a car I know well from my younger days. Guy in the flat downstairs had one. Lovely woofle reflected through the windows as it crept along the narrow drive between properties.
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 14:56 
 Cars you never knew about - Mike Hannon
>>I wonder if there's a true 'spiritual successor' to those splendid 1930s grand touring 'drophead coupes' made by the likes of Lagonda, Bentley, Railton, BMW etc as well as Auto Union.<<

There is. It's called the Jaguar XJS. I know of at least one for sale at this very moment...
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 19:02 
 Cars you never knew about - Avant
Did they do an XJS convertible Mike? I think they did - it would have the advantage of not featuring that awkward rear window that reminded me of a 1950s Austin Somerset.

If not, there's the XK convertible of course.
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 18:04 
 Cars you never knew about - NortonES2
Didn't expect anyone had seen one! Seemed to have been quite impressive, albeit better at going rather than stopping, what with drums all round. Have a 1966 road test somewhere.
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 19:12 
 Cars you never knew about - helicopter
.......Skyline estate (forgot its name...no its skygea or something like that) is simply too long and the Imprezza estate just never looked right.....

It is the Nissan Stagea and I am considering buying one , the RS4 as a 'Q'car from the mechanic of my local independent. It has been parked across from my office for a while because he cannot really afford to run it ....

It looks like a Volvo and goes like stink... unfortunately it has one of the dustbin exhausts which would have to be replaced and it drinks petrol but a grand would buy it and give me a lot of fun....
Last edited by: helicopter on Sat 6 Jul 13 at 19:13
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 19:44 
 Cars you never knew about - Fenlander
>>>7 litre fwd Oldsmobile Toronado

This was the same car and same colour NIL.

static.cargurus.com/images/site/2011/06/12/19/28/1969_oldsmobile_toronado-pic-7878425771126530742.jpeg

We had a flat that fronted a yard of city wooden garages and there was some very interesting stuff tucked away there in the mid 1970s.

Last edited by: Fenlander on Sat 6 Jul 13 at 19:45
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 Sat 6 Jul 13 21:35 
 Cars you never knew about - NortonES2
Not something you could easily forget, FL! Like the early versions: the ;ater ones became more anodyne. Have to be brave, or young and bold to drive one in UK:)
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 Mon 8 Jul 13 08:39 
 Cars you never knew about - TeeCee
Many years ago I saw one of those for sale at a Yank specialist in Kingston-upon-Thames.
They do exist in these parts.
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 Mon 8 Jul 13 13:21 
 Cars you never knew about - legacylad
I walked past a Renault Wind yesterday whilst our for a pre lunch stroll in t'Dales with friends. Never even heard of them, let alone seen one before.
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 Mon 8 Jul 13 20:39 
 Cars you never knew about - mikeyb
>> I walked past a Renault Wind yesterday whilst our for a pre lunch stroll in
>> t'Dales with friends. Never even heard of them, let alone seen one before.
>>

A neighbour has one, so that must have been the other one Renault sold
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 Mon 8 Jul 13 20:43 
 Cars you never knew about - mikeyb
I nominate the Ford Ka - the new one. Not sure how Ford got this one so wrong when you look at how many 500's are on the road
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 Mon 8 Jul 13 21:23 
 Cars you never knew about - Zero
>> I nominate the Ford Ka - the new one. Not sure how Ford got this
>> one so wrong when you look at how many 500's are on the road

Cracking car, showed Fiat how to do suspension. Nothing wrong with it (its not even the worse example of fords current rubbish interior design)
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 Tue 9 Jul 13 08:18 
 Cars you never knew about - BobbyG
I am still in USA and I think its fair to say that 95% of the cars here I never knew existed, certainly in the USA form anyway!
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 Tue 9 Jul 13 08:26 
 Cars you never knew about - jc2
Solara? COTY and sold twelve in the UK.
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 Tue 9 Jul 13 08:36 
 Cars you never knew about - BobbyG
Talbot?
My dad nearly got one!
Was there also a Tagora or something similar?
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 Tue 9 Jul 13 23:16 
 Cars you never knew about - Avant
The Talbot Solara was a saloon version of the Alpine. The Alpine wasn't a bad car - not sure why it won COTY though. The Horizon also won COTY - I think because it had the first trip computer in a mass-market car.

The Tagora was a bigger car with a body much like the Solara. It was quite well reviewed but it came out in 1980-81 and hit the recession. Big cars from non=prestige brands have always struggled to sell, and are particularly badly hit in a recession.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 07:15 
 Cars you never knew about - Dog
>>The Alpine wasn't a bad car

Agreed, apart from that damn awful Simca engine :(
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 07:44 
 Cars you never knew about - TeeCee
>> >>The Alpine wasn't a bad car
>>
>> Agreed, apart from that damn awful Simca engine :(
>>

I had one for a while. It wasn't the engine so much as the fixed-jet Weber carb (DCNVH 32 from memory), which frequently used to clog its idle jets. For added fun here, the steering had very few turns lock-to-lock so, on declutching with the idle jets blocked, the engine would stall, kill the power steering and make the thing nigh-on impossible to steer.
The other problem was that to get the bonnet line low the engine was mounted inclined rearwards bay about 30 degrees. Not usually an issue, but in a piece of typically French design, the side with the plugs and oil filter on was the rear one(!) Access for servicing was tricky.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 08:04 
 Cars you never knew about - -
Not usually an issue, but in a piece of
>> typically French design, the side with the plugs and oil filter on was the rear
>> one(!) Access for servicing was tricky.

Thats just reminded me, girlfriend of the time had a Pug 205 with the 1360 petrol engine, that too was slanted towards the rear.

Oil filter the easiest i've ever seen to get at being right in front of you on the side of the engine, unfortunately try as you might removing the filter saw all the oil empty itself into every nook and cranny.

30 seconds to change the filter and 30 minutes cleaning pools of oil up.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 09:06 
 Cars you never knew about - Dog
>>It wasn't the engine so much as the fixed-jet Weber carb (DCNVH 32 from memory)

You have a good memory TC (I think) I really liked that carb - brought me in a lot of work over the years ;)

I wonder if the dirt that got into the idle jets was airborne rather than in the fuel as I used to always fit an in-line fuel filter but, the blimmin idle jets would still give grief.

Same with the Golf/Polo/Jetta's of that era - the good old days, for me ££££££££.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 14:04 
 Cars you never knew about - TeeCee
>> I wonder if the dirt that got into the idle jets was airborne rather than
>> in the fuel as I used to always fit an in-line fuel filter but, the
>> blimmin idle jets would still give grief.
>>

Years later, I found an answer which I reckon probably also applied to the Weber. At the time I had a Skoda 130 Rapid, which also sported a twin-choke downdraught carb (a Jikov SEDR 32) and which suffered the same problems.

No matter how many fuel filters were fitted or how clean the air filter was, small black particles would clog the idle jets.

The answer was in the top of the carb. When removed it came away along with its gasket. The gasket covered the entire top, with holes in it for the float fittings and such. One day I removed the gasket (remove float etc) and the interior of the ally top was revealed. Lo and behold, a nice coating of black, furry crud. I cleaned it back to bare metal thoroughly and never had the problem on that car again.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 14:36 
 Cars you never knew about - Dog
>>At the time I had a Skoda 130 Rapid

I had to have a second look at your forum name, thinking it was Lud, but then I sees word Rapid :)

>>Jikov SEDR 32

I aint saying nuffink m8!

Good ole days though - carbs/contact breakers/Intermotor condensers!!
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 14:44 
 Cars you never knew about - Armel Coussine
>> thinking it was Lud, but then I sees word Rapid :)

One of the five Estelles I had was a 130 Rapid. It had lowered springs, looked good in patchy grey primer and went like a rocket - as quick as the 136 Rapid I also had, and quicker and nicer round corners. Had a very worn distributor that gave some trouble.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 14:46 
 Cars you never knew about - Dog
>>One of the five Estelles I had was a 130 Rapid

Ah well, you've gorn up in my estimation then Sire, as if you could get any higher that is ;)
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 15:07 
 Cars you never knew about - bathtub tom
My daughter's old Estelle never had that problem until I cleared the tiny oil breather pipe that fed into the top of the carb.

I then had fun rigging and old windscreen washer pump to a container of old engine oil into a T piece on that breather. Result, instant smoke screen on demand!
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 Tue 9 Jul 13 08:49 
 Cars you never knew about - jc2
>> Cracking car, showed Fiat how to do suspension. Nothing wrong with it (its not even
>> the worse example of fords current rubbish interior design)

Once again-triumph of form over function!! Car to be seen in.

Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 9 Jul 13 at 10:12
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 Tue 9 Jul 13 23:30 
 Cars you never knew about - DP
>> >> Cracking car, showed Fiat how to do suspension. Nothing wrong with it (its not
>> even
>> >> the worse example of fords current rubbish interior design)
>>
>> Once again-triumph of form over function!! Car to be seen in.
>>
>>
>
I'd still buy the Fiat. The new Ka is dull as ditchwater.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 00:54 
 Cars you never knew about - Armel Coussine
I remember a Citroen C4 I drove briefly as being a very nice comfortable car that lolloped over London speed bumps charmingly and went very well in town.

It had a 1.6 diesel with 110bhp I think. It felt as if it would go well out of town too.

I wonder how much a good one of those would cost?
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 10 Jul 13 at 00:55
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 09:48 
 Cars you never knew about - Alanovich
>> I remember a Citroen C4 I drove briefly as being a very nice comfortable car
>> that lolloped over London speed bumps charmingly and went very well in town.
>>
>> It had a 1.6 diesel with 110bhp I think. It felt as if it would
>> go well out of town too.
>>
>> I wonder how much a good one of those would cost?

Not very much, I'd wager, in the scheme of things. They're on the shortlist for when Mrs A's Golf dies the death/she gets fed up with it. Nice depreciation on French cars here, which you know of course.

We hired one in Belgrade a few winters back, also the 1.6HDi 110. I had similar out-of-town suspicions to you, but we couldn't really give it a blast as there was about 6 inches of compacted snow and ice on all the roads. Cheapo Maxxis winter tyres on it, nothing stopped it. Really liked it, but it did feel a bit thin and tinny in bodywork terms. If Mrs A's new job (whatever that may be, she's on the hunt) involves much motorway driving, I'll be recommending a Volvo S60 D5 or a(nother) Laguna 2.0dCi hatch.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 07:53 
 Cars you never knew about - Zero
Having driven both, unless I only intended to leave it parked outside, I would take the Ka every time.

No car has disappointed me more than the Fiat 500.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 08:08 
 Cars you never knew about - -
>> No car has disappointed me more than the Fiat 500.
>>

I can agree with you there Z, interiors a nice change from standard with its painted dash...er thats it.

Having said that whats that 500 thing on out of date steroids all about, does it take over from Mulitpla in plain ugly.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 08:12 
 Cars you never knew about - Zero
>> Having said that whats that 500 thing on out of date steroids all about, does
>> it take over from Mulitpla in plain ugly.

Yes saw one on the road the other week, quite the most horrifically ill proportioned thing I have ever seen. It was a genuinely WTF! double take moment.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 10 Jul 13 at 09:44
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 08:34 
 Cars you never knew about - Old Navy
>> It was a genuinely WTF! double take moment.
>>

A bit like the obese fashion victims motor with MINI badges.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 11:48 
 Cars you never knew about - Old Navy

>> A bit like the obese fashion victims motor with MINI badges.
>>

That doesn't read right. I mean that the car is obese not the driver.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 11:49 
 Cars you never knew about - Zero
you could have been right first time.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 11:54 
 Cars you never knew about - jc2
Saw an elderly Jaguar parked beside a new Mini-the Mini was bigger!
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 12:02 
 Cars you never knew about - Old Navy
>> Saw an elderly Jaguar parked beside a new Mini-the Mini was bigger!
>>

That is in part what prompted the post, a 4x4 MINI stopped alongside my Ceed a while ago, its bonnet was higher than the top of the Ceed door mirror. As my first car was an original MINI and we have owned a couple since, (one even had a 1000cc engine) the current one seems misnamed.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 12:05 
 Cars you never knew about - jc2
It is made by BMW!!!!
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 12:15 
 Cars you never knew about - Zero
>> >> Saw an elderly Jaguar parked beside a new Mini-the Mini was bigger!
>> >>
>>
>> That is in part what prompted the post, a 4x4 MINI stopped alongside my Ceed
>> a while ago, its bonnet was higher than the top of the Ceed door mirror.
>> As my first car was an original MINI and we have owned a couple since,
>> (one even had a 1000cc engine) the current one seems misnamed.

I have never taken to the "new" mini for that very reason. The original mini was groundbreaking in its use of space (even tho it was compromised in later years). The "new" mini is a style pastiche and is probably the least space efficient vehicle one can possibly buy.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 13:12 
 Cars you never knew about - Old Navy
>> I have never taken to the "new" mini for that very reason. The original mini
>> was groundbreaking in its use of space (even tho it was compromised in later years).
>> The "new" mini is a style pastiche and is probably the least space efficient vehicle
>> one can possibly buy.
>>

This weeks Auto Express has pictures of the new model (3rd generation?) MINI and yes you guessed it, it is bigger than the current one.
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 Wed 10 Jul 13 14:12 
 Cars you never knew about - TeeCee
My MiL has an old Daihatsu Cuore. When we bought that I remember thinking at the time that, if Alec Issigonis were still around, that's what he'd have built to replace the Mini.

When the MkII Cuore came out in Europe (never sold in Britain AFAIK), the old shape became the Trevis (never sold in Britain). If you look at one of those, you'll note that Daihatsu figured out what I had some years earlier.
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