A pal has just recently bought a black 2012 Citroen C1 VTR 5 door. It has fewer than 5000 miles on it and is just a year old and he paid about £6.5k.
He has changed the family fleet around to give his wife a seven seater ( Qq+2 I think ) while he has downsized to the little Citroen. He gave me a lift in it the other day and I have to say I was impressed. Lots of toys and twiddly bits to keep a car enthusiast amused, funky styling, fun interior and allegedly 60mpg +.
He lives about 16 miles from where he works and the journey is mainly country lanes. He says it's great fun hurling the wee car around those.
I've never been a fan of little cars but I must say, I liked this one. Amazing to note it has back doors in such a tiny body and with the seats folded down the loadspace isn't bad either. £20 a year road tax too. We only went a short distance but from what I could tell the seats were comfortable enough allowing plenty of front seat room for me anyway.
One of those cars you could instantly imagine owning until you realise it wouldn't really suit your own needs.
Pity really. Cracking little car and great value.
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Had one as a courtesy car about 3 years ago, a 3 door IIRC.
A little go kart and good fun until the sheer slowness, and drony noise, become tedious.
I was glad to get rid of it after a couple of weeks. And I wasn't getting anywhere near 60mpg either, might have been 45.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 3 Jul 13 at 20:36
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Like wise I had one a few years ago as a loan car. I thought it was a great little thing, fun to drive, fine up front for space (mind you I'm a shorty) only downside was the gearchange a bit vague and rubbery. When I looked at one for a friend I was surprised at their second hand values vs Japanese cars in the 1.0 market. Looked a bit on the high side to me. Probably best vfm new rather than second hand. I did think about one, my commute is bit more than your friend at 25 miles, but I'd miss my wafty V6 too much.
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A colleague has an Aygo that she bought last year which I believe to be basically the same as the C1 (and 107) She is more than happy with it, and drove it to the Netherlands last month to visit family.
Not sure I would want to go that far in it, but October is hand back time for the Volvo so the need to get Mrs B a new car is likely to mean that the luxury of leasing myself a new motor every couple of years is out of the window (well, at least this time around)
I've not driven, but have sat in in a Up! and that was actually a nice place to be, but not sure how it compares to the C1 day to day
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Our Up! is a hoot to drive, thought I suspect ultimately not as fun as a little Citroen/Peugeot. It is though perfectly capable on longer journeys. We actually took ours to Paris a few months ago, instead of using the more obvious choice.
Since we went overnight on the ferry from Portsmouth the actual driving time was only around 3 hours, and the car never felt out of its depth on the autoroute. Not as relaxing as a LEC of course, and the lack of cruise control was irritating. But the (standard) satnav took us straight to the hotel, almost directly opposite the Louvre, using a route I've used when directed by a native! It was also infinitely easier to find an Up! sized parking space than a LEC sized one, which was the main reason for taking it. Well, that and because I just wanted to see how it coped!!
Edited to add that the three cylinder petrol engine (999cc and 75PS) averaged 54mpg across the return journey. I reckon the 21?? cc 204PS Diesel engine in the LEC would probably have achieved similar fuel consumption...
Last edited by: PeterS on Wed 3 Jul 13 at 21:20
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I too have enjoyed a C1 courtesy car on more than one occasion. I find the beat of the 3-cylinder engine characterful, and the handling is definitely reminiscent of a go-kart. Clearly built to a price, but still competitive despite its years.
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We have almost all Toyties on the Manchester hire fleet. Just 4 Fiat 500s and a Zafira with them.
I've driven the Aygos quite a bit........4 doors, nice little cars that somehow feel a bit bigger. The rest are Yaris Hybrids/normals and Priuses. About 40 in all.
Ted
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Hello again, just caught up wth this again after my swim, mainly done to avoid a second helping of that dreadful toffee ruddy cheesecake. Hope the dog likes cheesecake...
Anyway, yes indeedy, a smashing little car. I was surprised to be reminded that they have actually been around a few years. Can't say I've especially noticed them before but then if you're not looking for something then sometimes you don't see it I guess.
It'll be interesting to see how my friend gets on with it. He's gone from a Mondeo estate to that so quite a change in size. He loves it for now but then he has only had it a matter of a couple of weeks. Might be different the first time he needs to do a tip run or ferry some combination of his 3 kids and attendant kit. There is a bigger car in their household though so maybe not an issue.
I was thinking more about it while chugging up and down the pool tonight and wonder if it's actually a bit like a Vespa. What I mean is, I've always secretly coveted a retro Vespa or Lambretta but can't actually imagine what I'd do with it if I bought one with my own real money.
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>> What I mean is, I've always
>> secretly coveted a retro Vespa or Lambretta but can't actually imagine what I'd do with
>> it if I bought one with my own real money.
You'd set it up in the middle of the garage, polished, and gaze at it while glugging a beer, and watching Quadrophenia.
After taking the mickey out of R.P we now hear that you secretly long for the same. Although I suppose a Vespa is the 'real' deal :)
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More of a Roman Holiday daydream than a Quadrophenia one to be fair !
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You're a Mod - I knew it !!
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Well, I do have a Parka but I'm afraid it's a Timberland one if that still counts?
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As long as it smells of Castrol R.....
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>> the handling is definitely reminiscent of a go-kart.
>>
Nearest honest-to-god actual car to a go-kart I've ever had my paws on was a Smart ForFour as a courtesy car from a windscreen place. Initially felt a bit lethargic, until I realised that it had one of those little Japanese engines that doesn't really start to do its stuff until 3,500 RPM passes.
When driven with serious use of the clog, the result is something with "point it and fire" steering, a very low centre of gravity, a minimalist interior for added lightness and a wheel at each corner. Exactly like a go-kart.
Made me grin. A lot.
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I had a poverty spec 107 for a day as a courtesy car and I thought it was great. Fun to drive in a way that that reminded me of the original Mini but much more refined. Quite nippy too if you wound it up, 3rd was good for 80 mph !
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New, I'd probably plump for a Swift 1.2 if I was on an eco mission.
Assuming (perhaps a big assumption) it has similar steering wheel movement to my Sport it is a great piece of kit even for a 6ft 5in lanky git like me - enough reach adjustment to have the wheel close enough to feel a bit more like a rally car than a Barryboy car where it seems 'sporty' equate to having your arms at full stretch.
Just checked the tyre pressures for the first time in a couple of months and the OSR is down to 17psi (should be 31) - the other wheels are exactly the same as they were 2 months ago.
Nice shiny Philips screwhead slap-bang in the middle of a treadblock.
Should be repairable at least... £130 for a new Conti and the rears are still at 6-7mm so fingers crossed.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 3 Jul 13 at 22:10
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I might, at the risk of incurring interweb wrath, have them put the back tyres on the front while it's in for the puncture repair.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Wed 3 Jul 13 at 22:21
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Nah fronts aren't much worse.
Will get them to switch at the 18k mile service and try to get them all to wear out at the same time.
Maybe in 2-3 years when I need new boots there'll be more brands available in 195/45 W17...
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My 18 year old niece has just been bought one of these as her first car - a 57 plate "Rhythmn" (sp?) in a really bizarre shade of greenish yellow. Cracking little thing and an utter joy to drive. Fells much bigger inside from the drivers seat than it looks from outside.
I first noticed this in my next-door-neighbour's-grandson's Aygo, which I had to move into her garage once (she doesn't drive) to get it out of the way of a domestic firework display. They're on the "to be considered" list when Mrs A's Golf needs replacing. I do worry about how close to the back screen the rear passengers are, though, in the event of it being rear ended.
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Had an Aygo (same as C1) for a couple of years, traded "down" from a 4 litre Lexus, so a big jump. But we liked it enormously too, and went to Scotland and back from Cambridge twice, as well as daily commutes and so forth.
Yielded about 58-62 true mpg over that time, cheap to insure and tax, easy to park, fun to drive, wife loved it and was a bit teary when it went, usual things.
But in the end it was just a bit too tiny, even for just two of us. Cases always had to go on the back seat, three bags of shopping in the boot and then you're into the cabin with the fourth, that kind of thing. And I wanted to go back to an auto for commuting traffic, and wanted something bigger, with cruise, and wanted the same running costs, so bought what I have now which ticks all those boxes and more and is indeed even a wee bit cheaper yet to run.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Thu 4 Jul 13 at 11:58
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Well, here's a thing to ponder. Admittedly just a ponder mind ! But...my E Class as a company car costs me £325 or so every month in personal tax. If I had a C1 VTR+ 5 door as my company car ( and maybe used the train more for longer runs ) it would cost me, now wait for this...... less than £38 a month in tax !!!
Blimey !
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Well, a £300 a month tax saving, plus reduced running costs elsewhere, you get £350 to £400 a month cash in hand then. Put that away for a couple of years until bored with the limitations and you have a nice pile to put towards its replacement, or even buy something outright.
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I've been doing a bit of internet trawling about C1's as a possible 2nd car. I like the idea of a small, cheap economical runaround which sounds a bit of fun to drive. Mind you for extra gadgets and comfort, a second hand Hyundai 110 still takes my fancy.
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Yes they are a cracking little car.
Aygo Black in family, only two criticisms, road noise from rear and the stereo is pants.
Cured both for the princely sum of £200 all in, self adhesive soundproofing around rear wheelarches and entire boot area plus a panel in each door skin.
Half decent Sony head unit plus all four pound shop speakers binned and replaced with Alpine/Pioneer, hey presto an entirely better car for distance cruising.
Toyota Watford are proving every bit as good as expected, it had condensation in one of the headlights, went in for 3rd (free) service plus first MOT last couple of weeks, new headlight fitted without the slightest hesitation, and still got two years warranty left.
Owner not contemplating another make when the time comes.
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This may well prove to be today's silly question but here goes...
Given the 3 versions ( Citroen, Peugeot, Toyota ) I wonder if there is any compelling reason to choose one over the others?
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Purchase price vs Aftercare.
You pays your money, etc
Check out current specials on www.drivethedeal.com - Skoda Citigo (albeit June pre-reg) about 12-13% off look mighty competetive vs the Aygos.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 4 Jul 13 at 19:10
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My son has the Pug 107 and its the cheapest of the three to insure,buy and probably service.
The Toyota is the dearest followed by the Citroen.
It really boils down to snob value.Also if you buy the Toyota then you would get better service from the dealers than the other two.Also Toyota pay out better for repairs than the other pair.
Other than that,when i lift the bonnet on my sons Pug it has Toyota branded all over it.
One point to be aware of is that the clutches on these older models are prone to failing.I don't know if they have addressed the situation with the newer ones.
My sons has just had to have a new clutch.Its on a 08 plate with 26,000 miles on the clock.
The internal rivets had come loose with only 1 holding on out of 3.Its a common fault.
The replacement clutch is 190mm compared to 180mm on the original.
Overall it cost £300 fitted which i didn't think was too bad.Hopefully he should get a few more years out of it now.The original clutch was branded Toyota so it goes to prove that they are built to a price.
The suspension is very firm and the sound deadening seems non existent.
Other than that,its a cracking car.
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Gosh right ok, now you see I'd not have been aware that there was any perceived difference in those brands re desirability. May well be of course, just hadn't come to my attention before. Goes to show doesn't it? If I'd been pushed to guess I might have said Citroen first then Peugeot then Toyota as the least premium. But really not sure why I'd think that. Not that it matters really. Interesting though.
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The one thing i've never been able to fathom was why Toyota shared the car with PSA at all.
Its all Toyota under the bonnet and set high standards in reliability, apart from the undersized clutch on the early ones which VideoDoctor mentions.
Toyota could and should IMO have kept all those sales to themselves, why give the opposition a good vehicle to badge up for themselves.
Interestingly i understand those who bought early Toyota versions have had lots of clutch replacement/upgrades FOC as you would expect, somehow i don't see PSA doing the same out of warranty for their customers.
Another good reason for buying the Toyota version, apart from warranty including avoiding their dealers, is that PSA managed to make both their versions horrible looking when facelifted with huge ugly mug grills.
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"lots of clutch replacement/upgrades FOC as you would expect, somehow i don't see PSA doing the same out of warranty for their customers."
Oddly the same sort of thing happened with the Cit C-Crosser/Mitsu Outlander. Apparently, original Mitsu was fitted with a less powerful VW engine and appropriate clutch. When PSA 2.2 HDi fitted to Crosser, clutch couldn't cope. We bought a Crosser, clutch was slipping (didn't notice at first on test drive and first few months of fairly gentle usage because it only happened under stress at certain revs, not in "normal" usage), car was out of warranty but only 30k miles, took it to a Cit dealer and new stronger clutch fitted free. No trouble 3 years later.
P
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Nice car the Crosser Phil, very torquey engine too, Pug version is just pig ugly with that huge grinning mouth what on earth were they thinking.
Glad they the decent thing with the clutch, that would not have been cheap.
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GB, Must admit, I don't drive it very much! It's Mrs W's car! And of course, with driving and delivering cars every day and having my old Xantia as backup I'm unlikely to! Mrs W doesn't drink so if we go out she drives. When we go the 700 miles to a little place in France several times a year she takes great pride in saying "I drove all the way!". And she does love it!However, must admit that passenger seat is a great place to doze! And she seems to be able to go up hill and down dale at a good pace even with a full load in all weathers.
Surprised it isn't more popular - and you are right about the ugly Pug!
Life ain't all bad is it!!
Well except that it 's not a real Cit is it? Not quite a CX Turbo D! or DS or even a BX . At the mo I'm a bit obsessed by the C6. Mrs W calls it my "end of life crisis". Wonder what she's planning!
Regards
P
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>> Toyota could and should IMO have kept all those sales to themselves, why give the
>> opposition a good vehicle to badge up for themselves.
>>
Shared risk and development costs. I think the market for this model was thought to be smaller than it has turned out to be plus the margins on cars at this price point are quite slim, so it may have made no money if sold under just one brand. A lot of disinterested people will not realise that they are the same, so may buy the aygo as its bound to be more reliable than something french!
If it was my money I think I would go for the aygo for the extra warranty plus I think its the best looker, however, if one of the others was much cheaper I'd go for it.
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Just been doing some more back of envelope daydream sums...
As previously mentioned I have a company car which costs me quite a lot in bik. I've just figured out that if I opted out of the company car scheme and bought a brand new top of the range C1, ran it for 3 years and even assumed it had residual no value at all on it's third birthday but charged standard business mileage allowance to my employer, allowed for fuel, servicing, insurance tyres etc etc etc. I'd be wait for this...£18,000 up on where I am now after 3 years and still own an albeit high mileage, but only three year old car outright which would actualy be worth something if not much and serve as a deposit on the next one...
Hmmmmmmm !!!!
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Out of curiosity, how do the numbers stack up on the next size up of superminis? Say you buy a used Yaris for the same money as the new Aygo. I guess it'll have to be a version with low emissions for the CO2-based taxes to be similar.
Or a Prius? They're surprisingly spacious inside, and a nice quiet comfy automatic to boot. Emissions, on paper at least, should be low and maybe mid 40s mpg, so not far off the little Cit?
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>> Or a Prius? They're surprisingly spacious inside, and a nice quiet comfy automatic to boot.
>> Emissions, on paper at least, should be low and maybe mid 40s mpg, so not
>> far off the little Cit?
>>
In your dreams. Foot flat to the floor at every opportunity and driving like a lunatic might - just might - get you down as low as that. Virtually impossible to get less than 50, and 55 to 60 easily achievable, more if you try a bit.
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Go for it Humph.
You would probably go unnoticed in the Primark car park when you roll up with stock of fifty pence espadrilles. All 4 dozen pairs in the boot.
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>> All 4 dozen pairs in the boot.
... towing an embarrassing trailer with an impulse car-park buy of 200 pairs of green 18-hole DMs, if only they were all like my youngest Humph you'd get rich on that.
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Away an' boil yer heids you lot !
:-))
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Don't do it, Humph. Life's too short to drive around in a bean can if you can afford a bit (lot) more comfort.
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No of course your're right AV. I've just been playing with numbers really. Such a car would just be far too small for my real needs. What it might have reminded me though is that it should be possible to find something in the future which ticks all the practicality boxes ( loadspace, economy, reliability, comfort etc ) looks kind of ok and which is a bit less steamy on bik.
Qashqai 1.6 diesel 2wd with a few twiddly bits for example...
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Or of course a Mondeo estate.....which you'd probably have chosen for yourself if your boss hadn't handed you a German taxi. I wonder how much lower the BiK would be: I suppose it depends on which model you have. There seems to be a huge difference in list price between the Business Edition and the Titanium X, even with the same engine.
If the road tests are to be believed (OK< they aren't always), anyone considering a C1 etc should also try the VW Up / Citigo / Mii. Both great city cars but the impression I get is that the Up is also good on a long run.
PS - no doubt you're glad that two Scotsmen are in the Wimbledon final - Murray v. Jockovich.
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>> Or of course a Mondeo estate.....
Groan...oh Avant, what have you done..:-)
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>>>Life's too short to drive around in a bean can if you can afford a bit (lot) more comfort.
Broadly agree. I've owned very few nippy small cars but used/borrowed loads over the years. They seem to encourage a "Saxo" driving style and at the end of a run I always find myself less than relaxed.
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Agree with that FL.
We had the C2 VTS HDi for about 2 years, whilst SWMBO loved it for its quite effortless performance (she's still an original Cooper S hooligan at heart and the C2 fitted) it was the hardest riding most unrelaxing and noisy car i'ver owned, it didn't need concrete springs or elastc band tyres but you can't have a decent engine these days in a small car without that.
Except, and i never knew these were made till a couple of weeks ago, annoying cos i used to deliver Toyotas which shows how rare these must have been.
Toyota around 2008 offered the 1.8 petrol engine in Yaris SR, if we'd known about those we would have bought one, LPG'd it, and never gone near the C2.
Actually i feel a new thread might be in order...;)
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>> If the road tests are to be believed (OK< they aren't always), anyone considering a
>> C1 etc should also try the VW Up / Citigo / Mii. Both great city
>> cars but the impression I get is that the Up is also good on a
>> long run.
>>
Road tests do often gloss over the price differential between these cars I think. The little Ctroen is readily available at around the £7k mark and comes with the essentials. An Up! is available for £8k, but if you want electric windows and central locking, which I think the Citroen has has standard, you're looking at nearly £9k. Add A/C to your list of 'wants' and it makes sense to buy the middle of the range Up! - now you're at £9.5kish. If you want more than 60 PS then you need a top of the range one. Add metallic paint you're looking at almost £11k. Ooops... Discounts are available, but not at Citroen levels.
As mentioned in an earlier post though, in that form is it far more capable than you'd expect a tiny car to be, and it's fine on longer journeys. 75PS is more than adequate, and the 3 cylinder engine sounds great when pushed. Ignore the gear change indicator though; that has you changing gear at less than 2k rpm, and then its both slow and dull sounding!! I'm not sure it really makes that much difference from an economy perspective either...
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>> My 18 year old niece has just been bought one of these as her first
>> car - a 57 plate "Rhythmn" (sp?) in a really bizarre shade of greenish yellow.
I've found something natural which is as close as it's possible to get to this bizarre colour. The bruise on my arm which my Laguna gave me when the tailgate strut collapsed:
tinyurl.com/lnk4wa2
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If y'all get some blimmin sun on that lilly-white skin, the bruise wont notice at all at all.
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You have seen what the sun does to ginger folks? I stays indoors when the currant bun comes a callin'. I'll be on the beach next week with me nippers, so I shall shortly be off to Decathlon to purchase some kind of pop-up nuclear bunker to sit in.
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>>You have seen what the sun does to ginger folks?
Aye, but, it wouldn't be a bad idea to try and get a bit of UV everyday, even if it's only for 10 mins or so.
Think Vit D.
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Apparently us gingers have that covered. Produce our own. It's the reason the mutation occurred for red hair in the far north of the planet, where sunlight is rare, I seem to recall.
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Well I'll be damned - you learn something new every day on this forum :)
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>> I've found something natural which is as close as it's possible to get to this
>> bizarre colour. The bruise on my arm which my Laguna gave me when the tailgate
>> strut collapsed:
>>
>> tinyurl.com/lnk4wa2
>>
Oh!
The poor love!
Mummy kiss it better?
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Thanks for the offer, Dunc, but I've got a Mummy already.
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C1 VTR - What a great wee car - Manatee
