Motoring Discussion > Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ?	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: R.P.	Replies: 63

New Fri 14 Jun 13 17:58   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - R.P.

Ambling through the local car-park to buy my lunch today , my attention was drawn to an older Vauxhall with a dodgy tyre. As I carried along I started noticing quite a few cars with their tyres close to the end of their lives, including a 60 reg Merc Estate - is this a sign of the times ? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 14 Jun 13 18:38   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Runfer D'Hills

I'm sure you're right. A guy who works for us admitted to me this week that he'd asked for "the cheapest most basic service you can do which gets me a stamp in the book" when his personal car needed it's annual service recently. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 14 Jun 13 18:46   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Roger.

Yes. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 14 Jun 13 19:01   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Harleyman

Definitely. We held back having the i10 service until this week, 9 months overdue though the mileage is still below the appropriate limit. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 14 Jun 13 19:30   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - -

One of my colleagues has bought a rather nice Jag XF, i notice its shod on Nexen tyres on the back axle, daren't look at the fronts, i'll avoid being on the same road.;) edit, if anything my maintenance has improved since the recession, i want my cars to last as long as possible. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Fri 14 Jun 13 at 19:31 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 14 Jun 13 21:19   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - WillDeBeest

Essential maintenance here, of course not. But the rest? The Volvo could do with some cosmetic corrections as well as some non-essential replacements in the gear linkage and suspension. It would be nicer if they were done but there's nothing that can't wait and so it's waiting. My income is still at its 2007 level; this year's increase will, if I'm lucky, just make back the Child Benefit I've paid for but no longer receive. It's only pensioners whose income has outrun inflation since then. But the LEC will need tyres this summer and they'll be Michelins, as on the Volvo. No messing with those. And both cars get full dealer servicing on schedule. Can't afford to let either become unreliable. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 14 Jun 13 21:45   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Falkirk Bairn

Neighbour pumped up a worn tyre with a slow puncture several times for nearly a week. Reason - could not go for a puncture repair as it was below the wear bars on 1 x edge of tyre. Student son is just back from 2 weeks in Hungary, 2nd son on a trip to London for a week! Student son's pal workd p/t in a tyre outlet. Took tyre off, repaired / turned tyre around and it is back on car....from first viewing the tyre looks passable as roadworthy. Priorities seem to be misplaced. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 14 Jun 13 22:27   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - legacylad

No. I still spend £50 a year on an oil & filter change. Plus £27.50 a few days later on an MOT. Just to show that money 'is no object' I spent £80 on a full tank of Shell V Power unleaded yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed my spirited 35 mile drive home. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 14 Jun 13 22:52   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Gromit

Judging by the increasing number of broken down cars of all ages that I'm seeing on the roadside, definitely. Same goes for running out of fuel. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 15 Jun 13 07:01   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - L'escargot

>> It's only pensioners whose income has outrun inflation since then. Where did you get that idea from? I should be so lucky! My private sector occupational pension is fixed at the level it was when I retired. Once in a blue moon I get a gratuitous increase of about £30 per annum. And, so as to maximum my pension, I didn't take a lump sum when I retired. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Sat 15 Jun 13 07:41   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - WillDeBeest

This is the most recent item on the subject to catch my eye (well, ear - I heard it on the R4 news) l'Es. Of course, what applies to the population in general doesn't apply equally to every individual. m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22890906 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 15 Jun 13 09:13   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - L'escargot

>> This is the most recent item on the subject to catch my eye (well, ear >> - I heard it on the R4 news) l'Es. Of course, what applies to the >> population in general doesn't apply equally to every individual. >> m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22890906 >> I think they're referring to people who only have the state pension and state benefits. I know someone in that position and I really don't know how they manage at all. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 15 Jun 13 10:45   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - WillDeBeest

Don't think so, l'Es. There's a DWP spokesman late in the article claiming credit for the government for restoring the earnings link with the state pension, but the rest refers to all those over 60. In any case, given what's happened to earnings, you could argue most pensioners these days would prefer a link to prices. Time to challenge pensioners' exemption from the (ineffective) austerity measures the rest of us are enduring. Discuss. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 06:55   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - L'escargot

>> Time to challenge pensioners' exemption from the (ineffective) austerity measures the rest of us are >> enduring. What "austerity measures" are we exempt from? Last edited by: L'escargot on Sun 16 Jun 13 at 06:55 Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Sun 16 Jun 13 11:09   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Bromptonaut

>> What "austerity measures" are we exempt from? Protection of pensions and pensioners benefits (winter fuel, TV licence, bus pass etc.) from cuts? Cameron committed himself to this pre 2010, a hothead response to a Labour challenge. Given that over sixties are by some considerable margin the largest element in benefit spend this was an economic elephant trap. OAPs getting Housing Benefit are also exempt from the 'bedroom tax', blowing a very large hole the supposed rationale of encouraging best use of the nations housing stock. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 16 Jun 13 at 11:10 Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Sun 16 Jun 13 22:40   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Roger.

State pensions have gone up. Private pension #1 has gone down this year, private pension #2 (Equitable, ha, ha!) has stayed fixed since 2000, as has my £35.36 per month occupational pension from HSBC! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 08:09   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - WillDeBeest

I don't know, of course, Roger, but I imagine you had the choice of index-linked and flat annuities when you bought yours. Anyway, the point I was making, and that Bromp so helpfully illustrated, is that plenty of people from many sectors of society have been required to cover the cost of the adjustment from what may or may not have been 'beyond our means', but those who actually take most of the money have been treated en bloc as a special case. Could be the cheap, crowd-pleasing idea that pensioners are somehow 'deserving', while others who can't make a living purely from work are not; or it could simply be that pensioners, as a sector, are more likely to vote. Either way, it seems clear that exempting pensioners for being pensioners is (a) financially unjustified and (b) likely to defeat the object of the whole austerity programme. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 08:45   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - L'escargot

>> Either way, it seems clear that exempting pensioners for being pensioners is (a) financially unjustified >> and (b) likely to defeat the object of the whole austerity programme. >> In the year ending April 2012 average earnings rose by 1.4%. My pension rose by 2%. I'd rather have had an increase equal to 1.,4% of average earnings than my increase of 2% of my pension. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 00:49   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - ....

>>>Essential maintenance here, of course not. But the rest? The Volvo could do with some >>>cosmetic corrections as well as some non-essential replacements in the gear linkage and >>>suspension. It would be nicer if they were done but there's nothing that can't wait and so >>>it's waiting. My income is still at its 2007 level; this year's increase will, if I'm lucky, just >>>make back the Child Benefit I've paid for but no longer receive. It's only pensioners >>>whose income has outrun inflation since then. >>>But the LEC will need tyres this summer and they'll be Michelins, as on the Volvo. No >>>messing with those. And both cars get full dealer servicing on schedule. Can't afford to let >>>either become unreliable. >>> Save yer pennies WDB, your EuIII Volvo will be as welcome as one of Billy Connolly's farts in a space suit in a city center (sp?) in the next 5 years, Last edited by: gmac on Sun 16 Jun 13 at 00:51 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 09:28   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Bigtee

It's not just cars boilers not serviced and contracts cancelled, the car can be pushed a little further if out of warranty we do it with all our trains and there knackered.!! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 11:22   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - corax

>> It's not just cars boilers not serviced and contracts cancelled, the car can be pushed >> a little further if out of warranty we do it with all our trains and >> there knackered.!! I don't know the first thing about train service expenditure but what do the train fares go on if not updated trains when out of warranty? Or is the warranty 6 months? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 11:27   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Bromptonaut

>> I don't know the first thing about train service expenditure but what do the train >> fares go on if not updated trains when out of warranty? Or is the warranty >> 6 months? I think the trains bigtee works on are class 142/3 railbuses. These went out of warranty when Thatcher was still PM!!! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 14:10   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - corax

>> I think the trains bigtee works on are class 142/3 railbuses. These went out of >> warranty when Thatcher was still PM!!! If that's the case then they are doing rather well :) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 15:21   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Bigtee

>> >> >> >> I don't know the first thing about train service expenditure but what do the train >> fares go on if not updated trains when out of warranty? Or is the warranty >> 6 months? >> Our wages and managers meetings seem to be were the cash goes and lots in the bank. Trains are leased from the likes of Porterbrook Leasing still have to be serviced but have been stretched with new air filters lasting 2 years plus. As for cars if you run a 1k or less motor doing short runs if it passes the MOT why bother to service it every year take it to 3 yrs then do it it's still not going to be worth much. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 11:28   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Armel Coussine

I doubt if the recession, such as it is, is making much difference. People here are undoubtedly more obsessive than the average motorist when it comes to maintenance anyway. But most car users are slobbish and neglectful where maintenance is concerned. I am myself by the standards of some here. It's commonplace to see cars with worn shoulders on the front tyres. It's because people run them too soft and often with faulty tracking or alignment. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 18:21   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - R.P.

I was following a 56 registered immaculate MINI Cooper up a slip road this afternoon, you know the type, spick and span and a lady driver - fat tyres looking like the original spec...I thought for a moment that they had an asymmetric tread - not so, as I pulled up behind (I was on the GS) noticed that at least half the tread on both sides had worn away - the wear bar indicators were actually standing proud of the tread on one side...really makes you wonder... Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 18:32   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - DP

If my unscientific surveys are anything to go by, Chinese ditchfinders from the likes of Sunny, Wan-Li, Doublestar and Primewell have made quite a dent in the market share of Dunlop, Michelin, Continental et al. And on some expensive cars as well. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 19:00   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - R.P.

Friend of mine has just bought a very nice (if rather vocal in the error message dept) Alfa - he's put a pair of Landsail make tyres on the back end - goodness sake - he's earning a good wedge ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 19:09   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Runfer D'Hills

Moot point I suppose, but I guess cheap tyres with legal tread are better than expensive ones which are worn out. I'm with you though, I've always bought the best tyres I can afford. Well, nearly always, there was one occasion when I bought some cheapos for one of my Mondeos, ( I was getting through 6 tyres a year at the time and was deeply skint too ) and thought I'd try them. They were actually ok, although wet grip was definitely not as good. It wasn't too compromised otherwise due to inherently good basic driving dynamics but the difference was enough to make me dig a little deeper into the piggy bank when the time came to replace those. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 19:08   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Lygonos

>>Chinese ditchfinders from the likes of Sunny, Wan-Li, Doublestar and Primewell have made quite a dent in the market share of Dunlop, Michelin, Continental et al. And on some expensive cars as well. Picked a big size out of thin air that I thought would go on bling alloys on a bigger car, 275/30x19 - put into blackcircles.com...... Michelin over £1300 for a set of 4 fitted. Falken around £800 Runway £420. That's a big chunk of change. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 19:33   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Dog

I have 4 x new Runway Enduro tyres fitted to my Foz, not a brand that I would choose, but they seem as good as the Nokians I had fitted on the Lancer and I'm more than happy with them, at the moment. I'll see how they perform through the winter months though, but then the winters in this neck-of-the-woods are a tad kinder usually than in many other areas of the UK. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 21:43   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - -

They'll be fine D, that full time 4WD makes all ther difference. The 4 Mich's on the Outy are sitting at 5mm, always found them skittish in the wet going right back as far as the X, can't unstick these no matter how hard i push it or how adverse the conditions and far better than we expected in the snow, wouldn't dare push the old MB like it wet. Assuming we keep it long enough they will be replaced with Uniroyal Rain Experts. Not having Chinese, they come over here....:-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 22:09   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Dog

They're marked M&S gord, but no snowflake of course, I used to find my Nokians would pick up loads of small stones from our gravel drive but that hardly happens with the Runways. Obviously if I pushed the Runways to the limit they couldn't perform as well as a premium tyre but, my "Hunt the Shunt" days are over ;) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 16 Jun 13 22:47   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Ted

Took an Aygo in to National on Saturday with a flat. Pumped it up to 50psi and drove it there. No wheelchanges for me if I can help it ! Big wood screw through it with about 2 inches protruding inside. Had to have a new one fitted, 251 miles on the clock. Budget tyres specified by the office......Barum @ £33 plus vat...which they get back. That's the second of the week, had one on a Yaris on Thursday. Ted Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 09:03   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Victorbox

Local non-franchised garage sells 1 to 3 years old cars and does servicing and MOT's. Apparently now very little servicing and MOT work going through the workshops since the downturn and they stay afloat only through car sales. Last edited by: Victorbox on Mon 17 Jun 13 at 09:04 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 09:14   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - L'escargot

>> Apparently now very little servicing and MOT work going through the workshops since the downturn ........... I don't understand why MOT work should have decreased. MOTs are necessary whatever the state of the economy. Unless, of course, the number of cars over three years old has decreased. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 09:40   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - -

>> Local non-franchised garage sells 1 to 3 years old cars and does servicing and MOT's. >> Apparently now very little servicing and MOT work going through the workshops since the downturn Might be a reflection of their work quality ethics or pricing or is there a particularly good indy in the vicinity who's taken their thunder. In contrast my MB indy has never been busier, never advertises work is all by recommendation plus he's been an MB specialist for some 40 years, premises are hardly inviting no coffee or carpets or nubile receptionists (to pay for), but knowledge and work first class and pricing fair, he's taken on second site and another ex MB tech. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 17 Jun 13 at 09:41 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 09:56   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - L'escargot

I think that wage earners who are jealous of pensioners should remember that when you lose income, it's significantly harder to adjust to the change than it is when you gain income. I just hope that the wage earners are doing everything they can to maximise the income they'll get when they retire. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 10:00   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Zero

>> I think that wage earners who are jealous of pensioners should remember that when you >> lose income, it's significantly harder to adjust to the change than it is when you >> gain income. I have found that not to be the case. With a small modicum of planning your outgoings tumble. Its amazing how much it costs to work. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Mon 17 Jun 13 10:07   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Fenlander

>>>With a small modicum of planning your outgoings tumble. Its amazing how much it costs to work. That couldn't be more true Zero... exactly what I've found. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Mon 17 Jun 13 10:25   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Roger.

Work, apart from being a four-letter word, is not only inconvenient, but distasteful ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 10:27   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Bigtee

A local indie replaces parts with dealer parts only won't fit patern parts of course the prices are higher the workshop is quiet. Other motoring forums i visit many are keen to learn to do it themselves & are trying to learn to save money. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 10:37   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - WillDeBeest

'Jealous' is a crude characterization of my argument, l'Es. Many have much less than I do, and through no fault of their own. Many more, on the other hand... ...own a home whose purchase was subsidized by generous tax allowances. ...saw the capital amount of their mortgage eroded to near-zero by wage inflation in the 1970s and 80s. ...have benefited from an unrepeatable overvaluation of assets, not just property, that has left them virtually immune to the economic ills afflicting the working population. ...can afford to keep family-sized houses long into their retirement years, so contributing to the crisis in supply and affordability of housing to people who still have families to house. And yet it's still apparently unthinkable to treat these people the same as the rest of us because they've 'worked all their lives', when many of the most comfortably off have actually had their biggest assets practically fall into their lap. Not jealousy, l'Es, but if we are 'all in this together' (snort!) how about letting the first-class passengers take their turn in the engine room? Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Mon 17 Jun 13 11:11   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Zero

>> 'Jealous' is a crude characterization of my argument, l'Es. Many have much less than I >> do, and through no fault of their own. Many more, on the other hand... >> >> ...own a home whose purchase was subsidized by generous tax allowances. I think my generous mortgage tax allowance disappeared in the mid 80's. Generous? oh yes only on the first 30k of purchase I seem to recall >> ...saw the capital amount of their mortgage eroded to near-zero by wage inflation in the >> 1970s and 80s. That would be about the same time mortgage rates hit 15% would it? Tell me was that before or after the crash in property values? Oh yes thats right during >> ...have benefited from an unrepeatable overvaluation of assets, not just property, that has left them >> virtually immune to the economic ills afflicting the working population. And what comes after overvaluation of assets? Oh yes thats right, negative equity, of course not a problem when you retire is it >> ...can afford to keep family-sized houses long into their retirement years, so contributing to the >> crisis in supply and affordability of housing to people who still have families to house. Oh look, that negative equity IS problem after all. >> >> if we are 'all in this together' (snort!) how about letting the first-class passengers take >> their turn in the engine room? You can go pee in the wind my son, who built the ruddy ship you are now sailing in? Its your turn the shovel the soddin coal. >>>> And yet it's still apparently unthinkable to treat these people the same as the rest However, despite all the unseemly whining and moaning i agree with you on that point. Its is simply ludicrous that rich pensioners get winter heating allowance and free bus passes for for example Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Mon 17 Jun 13 11:12   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Old Navy

>> how about letting the first-class passengers take >> their turn in the engine room? >> We did, probably before you were born. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 11:32   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Lygonos

>> I think my generous mortgage tax allowance disappeared in the mid 80's. Generous? oh yes only on the first 30k of purchase I seem to recall Didn't MIRAS first appear in the early-mid 80s (or was there a similar predecessor scheme - I'm too young to remember) as I was getting the very end of that when I bought my first house at the end of the 90s. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 12:00   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Bromptonaut

IIRC tax relief on mortgage interest was originally an offset for tax on the imputed interest on capital arising from ownership of a home. It was retainedlater as an incentive to home ownership. Until MIRAS came in the relief was given as part of one's tax code or on completion of tax return at end of FY. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 12:07   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Lygonos

Thanks, dad. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 11:33   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - -

I'm not retired yet and have no doubt the goal posts will be shifted at least once before my day of retirement arrives. However the politics of envy posts here are a squeal, simply echoing the current government propaganda arm MSM's public enemy number one of who's to blame for the current state of affairs, which happens this week to be pensioners, it'll soon be someone else's turn. If the powers that be deem our gaffs to be too big for our ''needs'' when we retire, which i expect is part of their goal in this softening up process, then they'd better be happy with a pile of ashes cos swm would torch ours sooner than give away what we have both worked blooming hard for in our lives. Whilst our hard done by current working generation struggle to manage a 37 hour week without going sick half the time poor loves, many millions of blokes like me (and many women) of mine and prevuious generations worked up to a hundred hours a week shovelling money through the door to pay off 15% mortgages and to raise our own kids, not the state. I'm sick to the back teeth of otherwise intelligent people simply echoing parrot fashion the finger pointing accusations of the day. There's a housing crisis because this pint sized country has a quart of people already here and more coming every day, no one asked me if i wanted to pay for this mess and i didn't vote for those who authorised it, those who voted for it look inwards. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Mon 17 Jun 13 11:39   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Lygonos

>> There's a housing crisis because this pint sized country has a quart of people already here and more coming every day >> However the politics of envy posts here are a squeal Irony much? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 11:43   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - WillDeBeest

I'm sick to the back teeth of otherwise intelligent people simply echoing parrot fashion the finger pointing accusations of the day. Lucky you don't resort to anything so simplistic, eh, GB? There's a housing crisis because this pint sized country has a quart of people already here and more coming every day Ah. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 11:51   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - -

>> Ah. What other reason is there? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 11:56   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Bromptonaut

>> >> Ah. >> >> What other reason is there? The one that was being quoted before the Poles etc arrived. More households amongst the long term resident population. People who would have waited until they got married to buy one place bought singleton's flats - one each. Marriage breakdown also increased the number of households. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 11:58   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Lygonos

>>What other reason is there? 1. Expectation that young adults will "get on the property ladder" before even starting a family. 2. More broken-up families 3. Less 3-generation households 4. Less mass-accommodation of the infirm/mentally impaired - "care in the community" 5. More people with second homes 6. Failure to allow councils to build new "social housing" after the early 1980s More? I'm sick to the back teeth of otherwise intelligent people simply not agreeing with my own particular viewpoint Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 17 Jun 13 at 11:59 Reply to this message | Report message       3

New Mon 17 Jun 13 12:31   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - -

So bringing in around half a million a year for something like 15 years didn't make a difference? Theres a huge elephant in the room thats going to push the roof off soon enough and still people don't want to see it, almost unlimited immigration couldn't possibly be a factor could it, oh no. Too many people with too little housing available pushes the prices up which exacerbates the problem ever more, though that might suit some. points 1 to 6. 1. expect young adults to be responsible and have children when they can afford to and to house them? as my mother and father did i did and my chilren have done? perish the thought. 2. and what has that got to do with anything, again anyone responsible will cut their cloth according to their means. Can't manage on a 40 hour week, do some overtime or get a second job. 3. and there was me believing as were told that we weren't breeding enough to keep our pensioners in the manner they've become accustomed to, hence we needed all these new people to pay for our pensions, presumably from the huge nett taxes from the minimum pay they get for doing the jobs we won't do. 4. care in the community, if ever there was a less apt title for an experiment in defenceless peoples lives this was it. Not enough of them killed off or suicides due to being left to fend for themselves at the mercy of every ne'er do well in the vicinity? Asylums for want of a more PC name wre if not perfect by any means at least provided a bit of sanctuary away fro the madding crowd for some. I'll give you that one. 5. Oh yes this must run into millions, probably well paid doctors feature highly...a mere drop in the ocean. 6. A great tory move that to morph the working class into middle class homeowners on the cheap, owning their own home made them into conservative voters apparently. Then not to replace them with anything, mind you as most were sold at a subsidised price it would have had to be money borrowed by the councils in question to replace them anyway. Bought Votes again as happens all the time and always will. More? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 12:10   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Gromit

It seems to me that a significant factor in the UK's housing crisis is that much of the the investment, development and - hence - work, is in the south-east, but much of the available housing stock is not. Which isn't a problem unique to the UK. The Irish approach to the same problem has been to incentivise investment outside the capital and larger cities/towns. The difficulty is that service businesses need a sufficiently large population to, um, serve, while modern manufacturing businesses need infrastructure that isn't available in provincial locations and skills that aren't available in ex-farming communities in rural Ireland or Scotland, or ex-manufacturing and mining towns in the UK midlands. Also, the failure of the housing and lending markets makes relocation practically impossible. So you just swap one set of problems for another. And what's more, if a retired worker owns a large house they worked hard to pay for - yes, even with tax breaks designed by the government of the day to encourage economic activity that, in turn, produced employment and tax income from that employment - who am I to complain that they can now enjoy the fruit of their labours? Besides, soon enough the NHS will borrow an idea from Ireland (rather than the other way around as usual) and introduce their version of our "fair deal" whereby the state will take a stake in your privately-owned home in return for financing nursing home care. In a privately-owned nursing home, that is, because the state can't - or won't - pay to care for its own citizens from its own resources. Now, is that fair either? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 13:16   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - DP

>> Whilst our hard done by current working generation struggle to manage a 37 hour week >> without going sick half the time poor loves, I wasn't going to comment on this thread, much as some of it makes my blood boil, until I read this. Frankly, you are talking absolute rot! You know nothing about me, and the many others I can name, who rarely work less than 50 hours a week, often more than 60, but unlike you, GET PAID for 37.5. Yes it would be nice to work more hours/two jobs and earn more like you did, but the problem is that we get to use our free time working those extra hours unpaid to keep the jobs we have. And if we don't like it there are 500 people waiting for each of our jobs who will take it thank you very much. Oh and for the record, I've had one sick day in four years. It's easy to make sarcastic and cutting remarks about me and my generation, when in fact you know NOTHING about the pressures and trials of raising a young family in the current economy. The working world and the financial affairs of people today are very different to the ones you knew in all kinds of ways. You see a handful of feckless, workshy people and assume we have it easy. I see a generation of people in houses worth 10x what they paid for them and with a pension that I will never see if I pay in 10x what they paid. But I know there is more to it that I don't see. Why do so many of the older generation fail to appreciate the same with my generation? I'm not saying you breezed through life with no challenges, and I know people of your generation struggled, but I wouldn't dream of passing judgment because I didn't live it, and therefore don't know the details. It's a shame that courtesy is one way. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Mon 17 Jun 13 13:25   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - R.P.

I agree with you DP, I have the had the pleasure of working with three work-placement lads (all unemployed graduates) they all have the work ethic we aspire to. Good blokes, two of the three have moved into full time jobs - one with our organisation. I was proud to provide one of them with a reference.... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 13:28   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - L'escargot

>> I wasn't going to comment on this thread, much as some of it makes my >> blood boil, ............ That isn't good for your health. "The boiling point of human blood is based on a phenomenon called Boiling Point Elevation. The boiling point of water is raised when solutes are dissolved in the water. Since blood is basically a water solution, the principle of boiling point elevation should apply. The salt concentration of blood is 0.9%. This should result in a boiling point elevation of a whopping 0.158 degrees centigrade. This boiling point is basically the same as water." Chill out, DP. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 14:14   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Runfer D'Hills

Like many others, I can't see any way that I shall ever be able to afford to retire. Much to my chagrin as I had imagined when I first started work that I'd be retired by now. I've worked either for others or myself without a break all my life and never claimed a penny from the state but had to sell my pension during a period of intense financial crisis when my business was stumbling. I take some small comfort in the knowledge that while that left me with a tragic legacy, at least I never left any debt in my wake. All I can really do now is try to limit the damage and to keep myself as fit as I can for as long as I can so that I can continue to earn money. When the time comes that I can't, well, I'll have to trust that a mostly painless final solution is available. In the meanwhile, it's just a case of keep calm and carry on as someone once said. I don't grudge anyone else anything, by and large we all make our own beds and have to lie in them. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 14:37   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - -

Yes DP, and don't take things so personally, its almost as annoying i expect for pensioners, many of whom worked themselves into early graves and who's bodies are battered and ruined if they're still alive, to be told they're doing too well. So you're chasing a 60 hour week and getting paid for 37.5, sounds like you need a union, oh hang on a minute they want an unlimited supply of workers to come into the country too as does the party that front them, NuLab, not as the present regime is any better. The constantly increasing supply of cheap workers might not threathen your present job, but they cause others to seek alternative employment if they can get a job at all which may well be where many of the 500 are at. Well done for being reliable and not taking advantage of the sickie scheme, no i mean that its getting increasiongly rare. I've had my eyes opened a fair bit recently, see in my poor common or garden job i never ever received full sick pay nor did my peers and sickies were unheard of if we could walk we went to work, but in my new job everyone on the company is full salaried. Amazing just what an ill bunch some of them are, can't beat a bit of full pay to aid the onslaught of one of many forms of illness. Just for the record i've been at work for over 40 years and i've never taken a days sick nor failed to turn up for work yet, my dad would turn in his grave if i did. I did however have a total of 8 working days out of work in 1981 when i got made redundant twice within 3 months, i got £14 out of the system, no doubt that will come back to haunt me at some point. So inflation has increased the cost of houses. I bought my first house for just under £10k, but on a wage average £90 a week which at the time was good top line but for an average 70 hour week including overtime, wages in my job have always been extremely poor unless you did 2 weeks work in one. People who bought around that time faced high interest rates which peaked at around 15 or 16%, boy that was struggle too. Houses wouldn't be so expensive now if there weren't so many people in the country, yes i know some of you would like to brand me an 'ist of some sort but this is a huge part of the problem that continually denying isn't going to solve. By the way i don't have a company pension scheme, i'm going to be relying on my state pension for which i've paid in all my life, not as i expect there to be much left in the pot. Plus whatever i can save, no doubt when we retire we'll have to downsize (voluntarily before an apparatchik orders it) and use some of the equity to live on. We have no intention of being a burden on the state other than what we are due, whatever else you think of me i am not a hypocrite, SWM is exactly the same mindset. Do you think i don't know there are good and bad in every generation indeed in every nationality, if not your blood will have to boil. Why do you think my son and his wife waited till their 30's now to have a child, it was to establish themseves in good hosuing and in good well paid jobs, its taking responsibility, something many of all generations fail spectacularly to do, unfortunately as the welfare state increases so do those who realise they don't need to provide for themselves, the state picks up the tab. Those in comparativbely good jobs have a recent kicking, my son/DiL included, pay in more than enough in contributions, but no child allowance for people who do their best. You are struggling to raise your families and pay your bills, yes? do you think it was any different for us, year upon year working through holidays to make ends meet and avoid at all costs interest rates or getting into debt. Old cars bought for peanuts ofetn with faults to get them cheap, spend hours/days fixing them up to make them good enough to use, didn't have the money for new or even modern second hand cars, and wouldn't dream of using a garage for repairs, we jacked 'em up on the roadside and got on with it. This isn't a p'ing contest by the way this is just a few examples from my own life. Most pensioners did work and paid in to the system for their pensions and other things like the NHS, its not pensioners fault that those same two things as well as education welfare etc is being dished out free to millions who have never paid a penny into the pot, home grown and otherwise. This country will have to make some choices soon, either we carry on like turkeys voting for Christmas or we decide that driving headlong down the same road we have travelled for the last 15 years isn't such a good idea after all. The choice will be with you and your generation in time, don't forget you'll be old one day. The whole point of this argument is that yet again those in power have divided and conquered, they again have pointed the finger and people have jumped on the bandwagon, it was welfare scroungers last time who next, possibly the big companies can afford better defence and spin doctors than a few past it pensioners eh? Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 17 Jun 13 at 14:41 Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Mon 17 Jun 13 14:58   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Lygonos

Don't forget the raw economics of the past couple of decades: As people have spent more borrowed money, the government in turn has 'earned' a big chunk of this borrowed money via VAT, stamp duty, and other similar taxes. So similar to the illusion of wealth for many through the 80s, 90s and 00s, UK plc also spent money on its various departments (be it NHS, education, defence, pensions, tax credits, whaevah) that had a foundation made on sand - washed away in 2008. This will ensure 'austerity' will be longer and deeper than the incoming 2010 government suggested, as not only is there less income to tax there is also less new debt to slice a chunk off. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 15:32   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - Dog

>>As people have spent more borrowed money, the government in turn has 'earned' a big chunk of this borrowed money via VAT, stamp duty, and other similar taxes. And what have they done with a large chunk of that/our money? = www.bbc.co.uk/news/10359548 And for what?? Come the revolution, I know what I'd do with em - all of them. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 Jun 13 16:55   Is the recession affecting vehicle maintenance ? - CGNorwich

24 billion? Piddling amount. The banks bail out cost 500 billion. We could have taken on every country in the Middle East and had enough to declare war on France and Iceland as well for that sort of money Reply to this message | Report message