Since April, I suppose, superimposed upon the usual tyre noise/road noise I have noticed or become sensitised to a sort of tone or drone coming from the rear of the car or at least that is where it can be heard, from the driver's seat.
My first suspicions were perhaps a wheel bearing but have raised each rear wheel up on the car's own scissor jack and spun the wheel and rocked it etc. but I can't detect anything unusual.
The tyres are the original fit and the car has only done 17k miles on them in four years this July. The make is Michelin Energy 205/55 R16 and so nothing outlandish. They are barely half worn, but the uncharacteristic echoing tone is getting me down, quite frankly and yesterday I got a quote for four new Michelin Primacy 3 tyres, at a cost of just over £410, with a view to at least changing the old ones to see whether this noise disappears.
To my ears the car seems more prone to noticing the differences in road surface now, more than is ever did and if the car travels over a sudden undulation, flexing the suspension, the noise is exacerbated during the deflection.
Perhaps some ear wax has dislodged itself over the weeks and can detect a noise that I hadn't heard before.
Apologies, if I have already posed this problem.
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Wouldn't rule out a wheel bearing - Might even be one of he fronts as it is notoriously difficult to define where a noise is coming from when driving. Get them checked at a garage.
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I had something similar on a Focus. Turned out the rear tyres, despite 6mm of tread, had worn strangely on their inner edge, in kind of a "stepped" pattern. Full alignment check done and no issues found. Changed the tyres, the problem went away, and never came back. Put it down as unexplained.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 23 May 13 at 09:13
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>> I had something similar on a Focus. Turned out the rear tyres, despite 6mm of
>> tread, had worn strangely on their inner edge, in kind of a "stepped" pattern. Full
>> alignment check done and no issues found. Changed the tyres, the problem went away, and
>> never came back. Put it down as unexplained.
>>
Is that the 'feathering' effect talked about? I couldn't detect anything particularly unusual on my rear tyres though.
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The only way I can describe it is like a very subtle "sawtooth" pattern on the innermost tread block only. If you imagine the flat surface of the tread block as very slightly sloped in the running direction of the tyre rather than across its width. Never seen anything quite like it. The tyre fitter put it down to a manufacturing defect, but it affected both sides equally.
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>> The only way I can describe it is like a very subtle "sawtooth" pattern on
>> the innermost tread block only.
I had that on a Peugeot 406 company car. I was aware of the noise but the car was at the end of its 3yr lease. We had to get the cars MOT’d before they went back and the dealer failed it. The tyres had individual blocks (rather than bands as most have) and, as you describe, they’d worn in a sawtooth pattern on one edge. The MOT tester had gone home when I picked the car up and the Service Manager looked at the car with me and was most bemused that his tester had failed it, as was the tyre place that changed the tyre (one was considered OK).
The 406 has adjustable rear tracking and they put it down to the alignment being out, although the lease company wouldn’t pay to check it.
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I had a drumming noise at the rear on my last Mk I Focus. I got the service advisor at my dealer to drive it and he said it was probably just the rear tyres were starting to wear slightly out of round. I took his word for it and accepted that the noise wasn't due to anything serious. A few months later I had new tyres fitted on the rear and the noise disappeared, so I think the service advisor was right. Perhaps your rear tyres are wearing similarly.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Thu 23 May 13 at 09:18
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As you hint you hear it as from the rear but you need to go out with someone car savvy in the back who can move their head to listen at the point you say you can hear the noise.
Modern wheel bearings don't always show play or noise when jacked up and their failing noise might just be under load.
However I'd be looking at tyres again first.
Jack up each corner in turn and spin the wheel with something fixed just touching the tyre to look for ovality or a twist to the tread as it rotates. Also look for a bulge on the inner sidewall that isn't normally seen. Finally check the tread hasn't worn in a "chopped" look which is a classic thing for making a drone.
This is a bit extreme but is the sort of look I mean by chopped... images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/03/falkantire.com_.jpg
Also.... certain it's not a small exhaust blow?
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>>>very subtle "sawtooth" pattern on the innermost tread block only.
Yep that's a good way to describe it. In my experience quite common on the rear but rarely seen on the front. Perhaps because few people rotate their tyres and most cars are FWD so wearing out the fronts before the odd pattern develops.
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Have you tried swapping over the the front and backs to see if this helps ?
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>> Have you tried swapping over the the front and backs to see if this helps
>> ?
>>
I'm 75 now and can't do the things I took for granted a few decades ago and anyway don't have the necessary equipment. It's horrible getting old!
I suppose I could at least spend the money on new tyres (no problems with cash) and see whether it solves the problem. A bit short sighted, I know.
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>>>could at least spend the money on new tyres
It just seems such a shame to throw money at the problem when many decent mechanics or tyre fitters could diagnose this in minutes. Is there no trusted place near you, what about one of the HJ good garages?
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 23 May 13 at 09:35
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Apologies didnt consider that ! However I'm sure for a 'drink' the local tyre place would be delighted to do this for you. Got to be worth a punt before shelling out for a new set imho.
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>> I'm 75 now and can't do the things I took for granted a few decades
>> ago and anyway don't have the necessary equipment.
All you need is a jack, a wheel brace or torque wrench, and a spare wheel ~ unless you're talking about not having the necessary bodily equipment.
;-)
Last edited by: L'escargot on Thu 23 May 13 at 09:43
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>> >> I'm 75 now and can't do the things I took for granted a few
>> decades
>> >> ago and anyway don't have the necessary equipment.
>>
>> All you need is a jack, a wheel brace or torque wrench, and a spare
>> wheel ~ unless you're talking about not having the necessary bodily equipment.
>> ;-)
>>
All I have now is the car's barely adequate screw scissor jack which is a pain to use. I dispensed with all my equipment when I realised or decided that I wasn't going to be getting under cars, stripping down blocks etc etc. There comes a time, you know.
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Recently, I visited Penshurst Place in Kent where there is a large grassy field for parking. I drove across this and all noise and droning disappeared. This tells me something about tyre/surface interface and interactions.
Anyway tyres are now ordered and are to be fitted this afternoon and so will report back here.
I am somwhat obsessive about my car and hate leaving it in the hands of grease monkeys and especially the main VW dealers although once a year is necessary at least for the first three years of warrantly.
Last edited by: Oldgit on Thu 23 May 13 at 10:43
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>> I'm 75 now and can't do the things I took for granted ..............
The thing I notice is that wheels are getting bigger in diameter and tyres are getting wider, so every new car I buy has heavier wheel/tyre combinations.
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>> >> I'm 75 now and can't do the things I took for granted ..............
>>
>> The thing I notice is that wheels are getting bigger in diameter and tyres are
>> getting wider, so every new car I buy has heavier wheel/tyre combinations.
>>
Precisely. And I believe that when these alloy wheels are removed there are no projecting studs onto which to lift the heavier wheel (probably) to at least take some of the weight prior to fitting the wheel nuts. At least in the past when alloy wheels weren't ubiquitous, I found it a doddle to take off a steel wheel and put it back onto the hub as it was one lift onto those studs and hey presto.
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I find the same with tyre and wheel weights.
I find power yoga makes a great difference..
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>> Precisely. And I believe that when these alloy wheels are removed there are no projecting
>> studs onto which to lift the heavier wheel (probably) to at least take some of
>> the weight prior to fitting the wheel nuts.
I've changed the wheels around on daughter's MK6 Golf and it is quite hard to locate the wheel and hold it in place while you get the first bolt in. My Merc has a guide stud that you screw in to "hang" the wheel off.
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I guess it would be fairly easy to make something like BP describes. I'm thinking cut the head off a short-ish bolt with the same thread width or whatever you call it as the wheel bolt and cut a notch in the top so a flathead screwdriver could be used to remove it if it got a bit stuck.
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>> I guess it would be fairly easy to make something like BP describes. I'm thinking
>> cut the head off a short-ish bolt with the same thread width or whatever you
>> call it ............
It's called the thread pitch. You can find out what your car's thread diameter and pitch is from this website. www.wheelfitment.eu/
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>>It's called the thread pitch. You can find out what your car's thread diameter and pitch is from this website. www.wheelfitment.eu/
Excellent link, thanks L'es. Bookmarked. I wish I knew about it years ago.
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>> It's called the thread pitch. You can find out what your car's thread diameter and
>> pitch is from this website. www.wheelfitment.eu/
>>
Here's the correct way to designate metric threads, plus other useful information. Wheel bolts/studs are in the fine pitch category. www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metric-threads-d_777.html
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Or buy the part from the dealer. All discussed here last year.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=11953&v=f
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Well new tyres now and front and rear alignment checked and found to need adjustment. Net result car rides better and noise levels reduced but not perfect. Anyway it's tipping down with rain so cannot check tyre pressures. Have to assume that they might be over inflated a bit but will check when rain stops. Car certainly rides our beautiful road imperfections better now.
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Is your MK6 one of the models that has reverted back to having a torsion beam rear suspension, I think only the sports models have retained the independent setup which is a major step backwards in NVH & handling IMO? I know on my MK5 there was an issue with the rear suspension setup straight from the factory, I just managed to catch my rear tyres as they started to wear out the insides and have the alignment corrected.
My Dad has a MK6 with the torsion beam and he too had an issue with the rear tyres making a lot of noise, but he traced it to a dodgy cheap tyre that must have been replaced just before he bought it, he changed both rears and that seems to have made things better.
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>> Is your MK6 one of the models that has reverted back to having a torsion
>> beam rear suspension, I think only the sports models have retained the independent setup >> which is a major step backwards in NVH & handling IMO?
I think that both the Golf V and Golf VI are universally fitted with fully independent rear suspension and that no semi-independent / torsion beam derivatives exist. The Golf IV was of the cruder torsion beam type but the suspension fitted to subsequent Golf models bears a resemblance to Ford's independent control-blade setup - not a mere coincidence as the contemporary Focus eclipsed the Golf IV for ride and handling and set a new benchmark in the class.
The previous (recently replaced) Toyota Corolla/Auris initially fitted independent rear suspension to sports models and a cruder torsion beam to most derivatives but later in the model life dropped the independent suspension option from all models.
The 2006 Civic FN3 (and the latest incarnation) reverted to torsion beam from fully independent suspension and in my personal experience this was a hugely retrograde step as the FN3 rode like a cart. This discomfort far outweighed any packaging advantages from my perspective.
I'd accept that a torsion beam set-up can ride/handle well e.g. Peugeot 306/Citroen ZX and the aforementioned Corolla/Auris but fully independent is generally better in my experience.
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Mk 7 Golfs with less than 120bhp get a torsion beam set up, although it still seems to be impressive.
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>> Mk 7 Golfs with less than 120bhp get a torsion beam set up, although it
>> still seems to be impressive.
>>
Independent rear setup only in Aus on the VII but then the 90TSi (122PS) is the lowest powered derivative on offer. AFAIK there have never been any torsion beam suspended Golf Vs and VIs manufactured anywhere at any time?
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>> AFAIK there have never been any torsion beam suspended
>> Golf Vs and VIs manufactured anywhere at any time?
>>
I had a look under daughter's mk6 "Twist" model (a special edition model built to get rid of the old 1.4 petrol engines) and that has IRS.
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>> Is your MK6 one of the models that has reverted back to having a torsion
>> beam rear suspension, I think only the sports models have retained the independent setup
>>
No, my 2009 1.4TSI SE Golf has the so-called sophisticated Multilink rear suspension setup. I see that in the new MK7 Golf they have a 'cruder' suspension for the more lowly models that is explained above, in a posting.
Last edited by: Oldgit on Fri 24 May 13 at 09:07
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I'm sure the transition happened at the start of the MK6's production, but as has been mentioned it only applies to the lower spec models.
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On the very wet roads and those just damp, there was no tyre noise as you would expect, I suppose. New Michelin Primacy 3 seem to ride well although feel a bit rubbery bouncy if you know what i mean.
I expect I wasted over £450 pounds on Thursday replacing my tyres and having front and rear suspension's alignment checked and adjusted on their so-called highly accurate 'digital' equipment costing thousands, apparently. Front and back alignments were out as shown on the TV display - all very flashy but I often doubt all this trickery to be honest.
Last edited by: Oldgit on Sat 25 May 13 at 11:39
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I cannot fool myself. The noise is still there depite new tyres and so that was a waste of over £450. I shall be taking my car into the main dealer to have the wheel bearings checked front and rear and to see whether there is any shoes binding on their calipers. More money but cheaper than a new car especially considering the excessive delivery times for the new Golf and an Audi A1 SE speccd to my needs!!
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Turn up the stereo.
or buy a another make of car, VW groups are not the quietest on the block.
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>> I cannot fool myself. The noise is still there depite new tyres...
Was it you that had noise on this, or a previous model, which was put down to wind noise on the undertray?
I have to say the Twist model we have is remarkably quiet. I don't know how VW do it, but it really does feel a cut above similar cars, and it feels at least on a par with my much older C Class Merc. I still can't quite believe we got it for £13K.
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>> >> I cannot fool myself. The noise is still there depite new tyres...
>>
>> Was it you that had noise on this, or a previous model, which was put
>> down to wind noise on the undertray?
>>
No it wasn't me. And yes, I believe, maybe falsely that VAG cars do give the impression of being a cut above similar cars on the road i.e. Focus, Astra et. al.
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Since the onset of cooler weather, generally and the passing of the Summer and Autumn months, the level of noise to which I referred above has almost disappeared - In fact I don't notice at all really and so this seems to be termperature related, doesn't it?
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Hi Oldgit,
Not read the whole thread but this does eing a bell with a problem that the MK5 suffered from - as the rear shock absorbers became worn, it would cause irregular wearing of the rear tyres thus indusing a humming/droning type noise. Worth checking the VW forums.
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>> Hi Oldgit,
>>
>> Not read the whole thread but this does eing a bell with a problem that
>> the MK5 suffered from - as the rear shock absorbers became worn, it would cause
>> irregular wearing of the rear tyres thus indusing a humming/droning type noise. Worth checking the
>> VW forums.
>>
With respect, my 'old' tyres weren't worn into any strange pattern but nevertheless I replaced them with what turned out to be a more comfortable tyre i.e. Michelin Primacy 3 tyres.
No, as I said above it now seems to be a temperature related problem that somehow affect this noise I referred to above.
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Volkswagen Golf VI - Tyre noise in the last month or so. - CGNorwich
