I ordered, on eBay a GB sticker, only to discover, when it arrived, that it was much smaller than I expected. This caused me to investigate the legal requirements. Here they are:
www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf see Annex 3 on p46
The letters shall have a height of at least 0.08 m and their strokes a width of at least 0.01 m.
The letters shall be painted in black on a white ground having the shape of an ellipse with the major axis horizontal.
The dimensions of the axes of the ellipse [of the sticker] shall be at least:
(b) 0.175 m and 0.115m if the distinguishing sign comprises less than
three letters.
Beware!
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IIRC the EU, at least within Schengen, have created their own regime whereby the regs Mapmaker references are replaced by use of the state identifier on the left side of the index plate.
There are however stories of 'les flics' and others fining errant motorists on basis of the 68 Vienna convention.
Although the car has EU numberplates we also have a compliant GB plate on the roofbox. Another lives in the car as a spare and could be applied in seconds with an apologetic 'j'oublie' in the event of issue being taken.
There are a wide range of non-compliant stickers in Halfords and in the port and ferry 'distress purchase' stores waiting for the unwary.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 13 May 13 at 12:44
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Whilst that is the convention, I'm lead to believe national law may be different. There are a lot of foreign registered cars in the UK with no plates or sticker and one does not see them being stopped.
Could be different in France where the police fine you on the spot and take you to a cash machine if you've not got enough!
Don't know if the EU flag and country letters on the numberplate are enough anywhere.
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Most EU countries rescinded the requirement and replaced it with the numberplate option-France didn't and the 1928 requirement still applies-you might get an awkward policeman one day.
Last edited by: jc2 on Mon 13 May 13 at 12:50
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Or, if you display the Euro symbol and Great Britain (GB) national identifier on your number plate, then you won’t need a separate GB sticker when travelling within the European Union.
(See www.gov.uk/displaying-number-plates/flags-symbols-and-identifiers )
To be honest, having so many options for national identifiers on UK plates just seems to make things awkward. Here in Ireland, we must have the EU roundel and IRL - not having these is a NCT (Irish MOT) failure point. AFAIK, the requirement is the same everywhere else in the EU.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 13 May 13 at 12:45
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>>not having these is a NCT (Irish MOT) failure point. AFAIK, the requirement is the same everywhere else in the EU.
Not in the UK AFAIK. None of our cars has them.
I doubt if Roger's, or Stu's, does either!
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You'll fail an Irish MOT then!
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Beats me why we don't all have them. Anyone know which phase of UK modernophobia presented us with the present some-do-some-don't nonsense?
Sadly, the LEC, which is now the car we take abroad, is the one of ours without. We took a (compliant) magnetic oval with us last year. It fell off.
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I have the GB logan on my numberplate.Wouldn't worry to much about being stopped abroad without a GB sticker.
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>> Beats me why we don't all have them. Anyone know which phase of UK modernophobia presented us with the present some-do-some-don't nonsense?
Because the so-called "Euro symbol" is actually the EU flag.
I have plain number plates with no flags on them. If I had any flag at all it would be the British one. It certainly wouldn't be the flag of a foreign power, such as the EU one.
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...flag of a foreign power...
Please tell me there's a smiley there I'm just failing to see! You are, must be, 'avin' a larf. And you didn't even answer my question!
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Mon 13 May 13 at 17:30
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>> ...flag of a foreign power...
I wouldn't be prepared to have that on my car either.
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I have plain number plates with no flags on them. If I had any flag at all it would be the British one. It certainly wouldn't be the flag of a foreign power, such as the EU one.
Absolutely.
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>> Beats me why we don't all have them. Anyone know which phase of UK modernophobia
>> presented us with the present some-do-some-don't nonsense?
Why nonsense? It's permitted, but not mandatory. What's wrong with that?
It's a British registered car, in Britain. It doesn't need to tell anybody it's European. When it goes abroad, I display a GB sticker. I still don't need to tell anybody it's European. The EU flag is an intrusive bit of propaganda cluttering up the plate.
I'm not allowed to have a white rose on it, so nothing it is :-)
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'Propaganda'...'foreign power'...'wouldn't be prepared to...'
You poor things! How do you cope when you present your passport and see the words 'European Union' at the top? Or is even a passport a concession too far, a hint that Little England might not offer everything a sane person could ever wish for?
And still nobody has answered my question about how this fudge came about!
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We have a small blue and yellow magnetic GB sticker with stars on it which seem to have something to do with the EU. Got it on a cross-channel ferry some years back and it has never come off or slipped. Carwashes don't shift it.
No one has ever pulled us and said it wasn't a proper big black-and-white GB plate. Nor do I give a damn about being smeared with a European identity. Indeed that side of things probably keeps officials on the continent happy and contented. I don't like them when they get angry, so let them think we are European. Since in fact that's what we are.
And so are all the rest of you whether you like it or not. Seems to me to be utterly barmy to mind about that.
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>> You poor things! How do you cope when you present your passport and see the
>> words 'European Union' at the top? Or is even a passport a concession too far,
>> a hint that Little England might not offer everything a sane person could ever wish
>> for?
I don't understand your angle?
I'm English and British, then European, then part of The Earth, then whatever else is out there.
If I don't like the way the EC has gone and is going and sincerely hope we can vote for some serious change to the treaties or if not vote to come out..........and feel more affiliated with my Englishness or Britishness than I ever would to being 'European'
.....what is it to anyone else what I would or would not have on my own number plate?
...and why is it insane to be proud of my roots?
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My point is that the EU is a club to whose benefits you are entitled as a member when travelling on its road (or across its internal borders), so displaying an indication of membership of that club is a reasonable quid pro quo. It doesn't signify approval of the EU's loftier aims, if there are any, just makes legitimate law enforcement easier for all concerned.
And your number plate isn't really yours, is it? It's a condition of using the roads, and the information you may display on it is governed by a strict set of rules. Just that someone was afraid to impose this one, and I'm wondering who, and when.
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>>Just that someone was afraid to impose this one, and I'm wondering who, and when.
Because that's what the EU is about of course, imposing unnecessary things.
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>> My point is that the EU is a club to whose benefits you are entitled
>> as a member when travelling on its road (or across its internal borders), so displaying
>> an indication of membership of that club is a reasonable quid pro quo.
No it isn't.
1. The idea of having a sticker on your car to identify the country of origin dates back to the UN Conventions on Road Traffic (1969). It pre-dates our relationship with the EU. The EU is just putting it's own layer of bureaucracy onto the process as usual! (It just can't help itself)
2. "...the EU is a club to whose benefits you are entitled as a member..."
I did not voluntarily become a member of this "club", so why should I want to observe it's rules if I can possibly avoid them?
Just what benefits do I get that are different from pre-EU membership days? Breakdown cover comes from the manufacturer of my car (via RAC), and engineering support likewise from the network of manufacturers dealerships. If I get into trouble I need to contact the British Embassy or Consul - not some EU body.
As for your earlier question,
>> You poor things! How do you cope when you present your passport and see the
>> words 'European Union' at the top?
I have a special passport cover to hide it (seriously). I did not ask to be granted the dubious privilege of being awarded foreign citizenship. As far as I am concerned I am British. You might feel more European - I don't. That's your choice and I respect that. Please reflect the same respect to me.
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snipquote
>> I have a special passport cover to hide it (seriously). I did not ask to
>> be granted the dubious privilege of being awarded foreign citizenship. As far as I am
>> concerned I am British. You might feel more European - I don't. That's your choice
>> and I respect that. Please reflect the same respect to me.
then we wil just have to go back to the old days, when drive your car into europe, and after a 5 hour wait at the border. to have your luggage searched, your documents perused, questions asked, and you may or may not be allowed to continue your journey. Of course the same applies upon your exit from Europe into The Magnificently ostracised fortress of Mighty England only after duties paid, goods seized.
Of course if Scotland Joins the EU and we leave, the same will apply at the M6 at Gretna. .
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 13 May 13 at 21:25
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Fog in channel, continent cut off, as far as I'm concerned.
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>> then we wil just have to go back to the old days, when drive your car into europe, and after a 5 hour wait at the border. to have your luggage searched, your documents perused, questions asked, and you may or may not be allowed to continue your journey.
No we won't.
You are just setting up a straw man to knock down. Old debating tactic. I saw through it immediately.
It won't work, Zero! :-) <<< smiley alert!
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No I am sorry, smiley alert in the bin, debate wont cut it with a bloke who calls the EU a "foreign power"
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I have to agree with Zero that the EU isn't a 'foreign power'. But of course one can only sympathise with residual British suspicion and hostility towards the European countries we've been fighting and squabbling with, and bullying and being threatened and invaded by, for a couple of millennia actually if not longer.
People need to stay calm in this age of flux. The first world war didn't end war but perhaps the second one did, fingers crossed, so far so good eh chaps? Want another one? Look, times have changed fundamentally. The 'nation state' as we and other Europeans know it may be fading away. But our attachment to it is SHARED by the other major European nations. They are more like us than anyone else in the world: the Americans who think we are their possession almost, the emergent powers - there are several and they are powerful and getting more so - and er, the Dawn coming up like thunder out of where was it?
I wouldn't dream of voting to leave the EU. I think we need it. Our leaderships should try to change it in various ways to suit us of course. But why spit in the eye of the medium-sized powers that think most like us, in global terms (and there's another word to conjure with: global)? Chill out. Show a bit of realism. It isn't 1907 any more.
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I take my car to "Europe" quite often. Never bother with GB stickers, hi-viz vests, spare bulbs, red warning triangles or any of the other guff. Never been asked to produce any of them either despite having, er, um, "attracted the attention" occasionally of the traffic cops. I did used to have an "Ecosse" sticker on my Westfield which did lead to some conversations with French people along the lines of "Well, that's a relief, at least you're not English, 'ave a good 'oliday..."
:-)
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The catalyst for the EU, originally billed as the Common Market, was the desire for lasting peace in Europe after two World Wars in 30 years.
Even then, had it been positioned as a Federal States of Europe, I don't think it would have had enough traction.
I like France, a very civilised country in many ways. I like Germany. I especially like Italy. The Dutch seem to me to be the most similar to the English, though I might be extrapolating too far from my observation that it is only the British and the Dutch who are inclined to get paralytic at conferences.
I have been to central Europe too, Hungary and Czechia mainly, and while I got on fine with the people, in my opinion they think less like we do. But that's OK too.
I have no problem with Europeans. But the EU has become a monster. I would rather it be reinvented than Britain leave it, but I doubt it can be fixed.
What was that about GB stickers?
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>> I have to agree with Zero that the EU isn't a 'foreign power'.
It think it is. The Germans and French (who let's face it are main players in the EU) and an army of unelected bureaucrats are unashamedly aiming for a United States of Europe. I don't want that.
>> But of
>> course one can only sympathise with residual British suspicion and hostility towards the >> >> European countries
>> we've been fighting and squabbling with, and bullying and being threatened and invaded >> by, for
>> a couple of millennia actually if not longer.
It's not that I regards other States with suspicion, hostility etc....it's just that i'd like mine to remain in control of all the important stuff it needs to...not sign it all away to a lumbering great, money wasting, bureaucratic pit..run by people who'd have no knowledge of or regard for our way of doing things. Free trade...yes.
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>> Free trade...yes.
There is no such thing any more.
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It's not that I regards...
Been in the West Country long, WP?
};---)
We've dealt with the fatuous 'foreign power' objection, and I don't propose to take issue here with the anti-EU posturing that we get plenty of in other threads here. But I really don't understand how your plain number plate, or Londoner's passport cover (from which the UKBA will require him to remove his passport anyway) will bring down this dastardly Franco-German tyranny. Don't forget that the only ones among us to have volunteered to be British are the immigrants.
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>> It's not that I regards...
>> Been in the West Country long, WP?
>> };---)
Well not long enough to learn how to handle a tractor it seems.
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Kick a man when he's down why don't you.
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I have a nice little Union Flag sticker covering the ring of stars on both front and rear plates.
*Advert*. Available from tinyurl.com/caw6rog for a modest £1 for two ;-)
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Our unarmed combat instructor when I was in the Royal Marines insisted that it was the ONLY time to kick a man!
Kicking an upright opponent leaves one in an unbalanced and vulnerable position, as it is easy to for the uplifted leg to be grabbed, from which state a simple lift puts the kicker on his back. All that is then required is to place both knees together and drop straight down, knees first, onto the recumbent one's chest with all one's weight.
Crunch!
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>> Kick a man when he's down why don't you.
>>
Oh I was down alright. I'm so glad there wasn't a witness.
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>> But I really don't understand how your plain number plate, or Londoner's passport cover (from which the UKBA will require him to remove his passport anyway) will bring down this dastardly Franco-German tyranny.
Well thanks, WdB!. In return for showing respect for your views, you reciprocate by taking the mick out of mine. There is no "Franco-German tyranny", and I never said that there was. I never said that I was trying to bring down the EU, either.
Whether you consider the EU flag to be that of a "foreign power" or not, the fact remains that it is not the British flag. What is so unreasonable about expecting that if I were to put any flag at all on my number plates it should be the British flag - and not the flag of any other supra-national organisation to which the UK belongs, such as NATO, the UN or the EU?
The passport issue is more interesting. Yes, I have to remove the passport from it's cover for UKBA, but I am disappointed by the words "European Union" on the cover. I completely reject the assertion that I am deemed to be a citizen of any other country than the UK without my consent. ***
*** Introduced by the Maastricht Treaty, 1992, "Every person holding the nationality of a Member State of the European Union is, as a result, a citizen of the Union."
and according to the European Court of Justice in case 61999CJ0184:
"EU Citizenship is destined to be the fundamental status of nationals of the Member States"
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This thread reminds me of why I love working with my old firm.
We had six new Scania's delivered a few year ago, one of which was allocated to me.
It's a family firm and the firms founder still lives at the top of the yard and is now 90 yrs old, he still gets around the yard on a small women's shopper bike on a daily basis too!
He was so proud to see these new lorries arrive but thoroughly annoyed by the 'ring of stars' flag on the number plates and let everyone know who would listen.
It got too much for him so he jumped in his car, went to Peterborough and managed to find some Union Jack stickers just a bit too big.
He spent all day Sunday cutting them down and sticking them over the EU flags:)
He has a full sized flag pole and we fly the St George's flag at any opportunity too!
Pat
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Just been to check the car and bike fleet - The Beemer has a Welsh Dragon (which I understand is permitted by the DVLA as is the Saltire and the Cross of St George) -so I wouldn't bother with a GB sticker on that. The only other vehicle that is likely to go to Europe is the BMW bike - that has a discrete "Cym" for Cymru sticker. I'm European enough not to bother with a compliant GB sticker. Not something I worry about.
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>> The Beemer has a Welsh Dragon ...
That reminds me (and taking the heat down considerably) ...
I see quite a few cars in London that put the manufacturers badge on the number plate. Not exclusive to BMWs by any means, but they seem to be the most common.
Is this legal? Or is it one of those things (such as the use of weird fonts on the number plate) to which the police turn a blind eye because they have better things to do?
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>> It isn't 1907 any more.
>>
In 1907 we were a declining power, worried about increasing German domination of Europe.
Whereas in 2013 we are .....
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It does though occur to me to ask why the practice of applying national identity stickers began or perhaps more accurately continues?
If it's meant be a safety related thing ( ie watch out I'm a foreigner and may not drive as well as a local ) then it's a bit tenuous as most countries have quite different reg plates anyway.
Just curious, in case anyone knows.
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Logically, it would be to tell the observer where the registration on the car was issued, so that in the event of it being necessary to trace or investigate the vehicle the local police would know who to contact.
The EU flag does sod all to aid this, another reason not to bother with it :)
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>> The EU flag does sod all to aid this, another reason not to bother with
>> it :)
The EU flag bears the relavant national ID letters - thus it does everything necessary to aid identification.
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Not in itself it doesn't. I think what is being said that national ID letters do not require an EU flag.
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>> Not in itself it doesn't. I think what is being said that national ID letters
>> do not require an EU flag.
Correct.
If the letters are to have a flag as a background, then why not the country of registration? At least it would assist with identification.
Or if it's just advertising space, sell it to Vodaphone and reduce VED.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 14 May 13 at 12:47
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Within living memory there were those who would have seen buying a non UK produced car as somewhat disloyal. Life moves on.
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>> Within living memory there were those who would have seen buying a non UK produced
>> car as somewhat disloyal. Life moves on.
>>
There's still people about who think that.
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Part of me wishes there were more, indeed with reference to many other consumer goods and produce too, but it's far too late now.
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>> >> Within living memory there were those who would have seen buying a non UK
>> produced
>> >> car as somewhat disloyal. Life moves on.
>> >>
>>
>> There's still people about who think that.
>>
Yes. Me for starters.
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>>Not in itself it doesn't. I think what is being said that national ID letters do not require an EU flag.
And another thing.
WdB scoffs at my use of the word propaganda. But what else is it for? It's on a par with the council spending ratepayer's money on a newspaper to promote itself, one of which plopped through the letter box this morning.
There's a dismissive smugness from many Europhiles, I'm listening to some on the wireless now - a sort of pitying regret that anybody expressing scepticism can't quite grasp the issues.
I don't actually object to the principle of a superstate per se; but what happened to subsidiarity? The EU is now raising its own taxes with the proposed FTT that risks severe damage to the UK. And we need to get our own house in order. Why can't our own bureaucrats adopt directives pragmatically like the French, instead of gold plating them and tying us in knots? At the moment we are paying for two layers of regulatory drag.
If we aren't bailing out, we need to bang a few heads and make sure it's done properly, and a few things are sorted out quicksticks. The Eurozone can't continue in thrall to Germany; the ECB needs to look at Japan and stop doing things by halves.
As things stand, we haven't seen the last of the Euroland moneygrabs, after the Greek bond haircuts and Cypriot bank robberies. There'll be tears before bedtime.
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>> in thrall to Germany; the ECB needs to look at Japan and stop doing things
>> by halves.
Indeed, Japan has managed to stagnate for 10 years. Only another 6 or 7 years for europe to catch up on.
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>>
>> >> in thrall to Germany; the ECB needs to look at Japan and stop doing
>> things
>> >> by halves.
>>
>> Indeed, Japan has managed to stagnate for 10 years. Only another 6 or 7 years
>> for europe to catch up on.
20 years stagnation actually. As well you know, I allude to more recent events. I'm not sure that will work either, it looks very high risk to me. But the ECB almost defines its options by doing no more than is needed to kick the can a bit further on each time.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 14 May 13 at 13:38
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>> ECB almost defines its options by doing as little as is needed to kick the
>> can a bit further on each time.
>>
Perhaps steady as she goes is what is required? Whatever one's feelings about the ECB, incompetence isn't one of mine about them.
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>> >> ECB almost defines its options by doing as little as is needed to kick
>> the
>> >> can a bit further on each time.
>> >>
>>
>> Perhaps steady as she goes is what is required? Whatever one's feelings about the ECB,
>> incompetence isn't one of mine about them.
Probably their only option, politically - so not a competence issue. But I don't know enough about it, or understand it all. I'm worried that I'm not the only one, and some of the others are in charge!
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>> As things stand, we haven't seen the last of the Euroland moneygrabs, after the Greek
>> bond haircuts and Cypriot bank robberies. There'll be tears before bedtime.
So what would have happened to Greek bondholders or Cypriot bank customers without any bailout or a bailout from a different sponsor?
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Your point is what?
They would have lost more, clearly.
The Greek write-offs were going to be the last, then there was the Cyprus bank deposits, also not to be a precedent - one a sovereign default, the other a partial bank one.
All I am saying is it will happen again, because the fundamental problems are still there - the deficits have come down, mainly because of a collapse in internal demand in the peripheral states rather than improvements in productivity or outputs, but the lack of competitiveness against Germany's low unit labour costs is still there, as are the sovereign debts.
I'll have Italy in the sweepstake.
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>> Your point is what?
>>
>> They would have lost more, clearly.
Exactly that. They're not, as seems to be being presented in some quarters, 'victims' of the EU
Neither were robbed rather they were victims of banking/lending who got an advantageous bail out.
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>> Exactly that. They're not, as seems to be being presented in some quarters, 'victims' of
>> the EU
>>
>> Neither were robbed rather they were victims of banking/lending who got an advantageous bail out.
Yup.
Still got hammered though, and if we lost a chunk of our savings and pensions there would still be a wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Just saying. Job's comforter, my Mum used to say.
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"Still got hammered though, and if we lost a chunk of our savings and pensions there would still be a wailing and gnashing of teeth."
As I said before we did. The value of the £ against the euro dropped 25% since the banking crisis and no one seemed to care. In fact people celebrated that we had our own currency instead of that nasty Euro. Funny things people.
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>> "Still got hammered though, and if we lost a chunk of our savings and pensions
>> there would still be a wailing and gnashing of teeth."
>>
>> As I said before we did. The value of the £ against the euro dropped
>> 25% since the banking crisis and no one seemed to care. In fact people celebrated
>> that we had our own currency instead of that nasty Euro. Funny things people.
Yes, that is the nature of the UK ongoing 'default'.
Would you rather be in the Euro?
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Yes
I would be a lot wealthier.
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>> The value of the £ against the euro dropped 25% since the banking crisis and no one seemed to care.
>> In fact people celebrated that we had our own currency instead of that nasty Euro. Funny things people.
>>
Yes, people ARE funny things. Especially those whose grasp of economics is so vanishingly small that they would rather that the pound had been locked into the Euro at an unfeasibly high rate, and had even less control over their own financial policy than they have now.
Of course, the funniest of all are those who don't care about any of this provided that "they are all right, Jack".
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Would that I were an economic expert like you Londoner and happy to sacrifice my savings acquired over a lifetime for the greater good of all, or perhaps you don't have any savings?
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Well, I had a bit of my modest savings in the in the composite European index from mid 2009, and and some in the FTSE all share.
The European was up about about 50% when I offloaded it recently, the FTSE up about 80%.
I trust you have all your beans in Euro accounts?
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Not all - some. Eggs in one basket you know.
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>> Would that I were an economic expert like you Londoner and happy to sacrifice my
>> savings acquired over a lifetime for the greater good of all, or perhaps you don't
>> have any savings?
>>
Keep reading then, and I will be happy to teach you all about it - and I won't charge you a penny for all this valuable tuition.
Yes, I do have savings. Not as many since the Banksters caused the recession with their casino economics. I lost roughly £80k in the Lloyds bank fiasco alone, and I've been losing lots more due to interest rates on savings being so low. A few bad breaks, but overall in life I have been fortunate.
No one is asking you, or me, to sacrifice ALL our savings, CGN. Are you seriously telling me that you would rather see people go hungry, even starve in extreme cases, rather than put your hand in your pocket to help?
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"and I won't charge you a penny for all this valuable tuition."
Very reasonable since you admit to losing £80K in one investment.
A belief that it the duty of the government and Bank of England to preserve the value of the currency does not make me responsible for starvation.
I am quite happy to put my hand in my pocket to give to others. What I object to is the government putting its hand in my pocket, walking off with 25% of my money and hoping that it wont be noticed.
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>> Very reasonable since you admit to losing £80K in one investment.
Well, at least it was a valuable lesson learnt - never trust to any of your Bankster chums ever again.
>> A belief that it the duty of the government and Bank of England to preserve the value of the currency does not make me responsible for starvation.
OK, so given the choice between:-
a) maintaining an overvalued currency and letting some people starve, and
b) allowing the overvalued currency to fall and thus avoiding starvation,
..... then you would choose (a). You must be from the Liam Fox wing of the Tories.
Your first free lesson: Don't get hung up on the exchange rate being high or low as if it is some sort of macho indicator of the strength of the nation. What IS important is that the exchange rate should be at the RIGHT level - not artificially high or low. The market will not be denied on this. No use blaming the government.
>> I am quite happy to put my hand in my pocket to give to others. What I object to is the
>> government putting its hand in my pocket, walking off with 25% of my money and hoping
>> that it wont be noticed.
When did the government come along and take 25% of your money at a stroke. Are you living in Cyprus, or something? (Part of the Eurozone paradise)
I am off out for the evening now. Play nice while I am away.
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Oh I would let the peasants starve any day of the week - they don't mind really.
When did the government take 25% of my money at a stroke?
Well they're damned good at it since you don't even seem to notice that by manipulating the exchange rate they've taken 25% of your savings too.
They achieved that by instigating a massive program of printing money which they like to call quantitave easing to fool naive people like you and maintaining an artificially low bank rate.
When did anyone in the government stand up and say that these policies would cost savers 25% of their savings in real terms. Don't think they did - must have slipped their minds.
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The exchange rate is what it is. Irrelevant except in so far as it translates to inflation.
Inflation could be a lot worse (and might be yet).
I did a spreadsheet the other day to try and forecast what I can spend in retirement. Stress testing with inflation was very scary.
Between 1971 and 1990, 20 years, the annual increase in RPI averaged more than 10%, and the value of money divided by 6.
I gave up after I'd plugged that in, and ordered some new wheels and tyres for the MX5 before they went up ;-)
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 14 May 13 at 20:43
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"The exchange rate is what it is. Irrelevant except in so far as it translates to inflation. "
Since a large proportion of what you buy is imported and paid for in other currencies that correlation is far from irrelevant
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 14 May 13 at 20:57
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I think we're agreeing violently, but it hasn't really happened yet to the extent that it might.
Unless perhaps you live on champagne, camembert and wurst, which I haven't been monitoring the prices of. I don't suppose the ONS has those in its CPI basket.
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>> the funniest of all are those who don't care about any of this provided that "they are all right, Jack".
I think that covers nearly all of us me old Cockney broddah... it certainly covers me.
I'm not going to eat my heart out worrying about something I simply don't have the information to assess properly, and can't influence as an individual except by voting. Life's too short. As with all aspects of politics, one just has to keep one's fingers crossed that those in the saddle - who do have the information such as it is - won't screw up really disastrously (as most of us would in their place).
The EC isn't just an economic thing, it has an important political dimension. That worries some people here, but it shouldn't. Time marches on, and that's how things are now. I do hope our native tendency to hysteria won't lead to an unthinking Vuvuzela-led exodus from it.
Incidentally, my impression is that these former cabinet ministers - Nigel Lawson et al. - don't seriously think we should leave Europe. They're just trying to bully the PM, jog his elbow at a difficult moment.
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I had the immediate thought that it might be a bit orchestrated.
If Dave is going to try and negotiate on membership, it's no good just asking nicely.
"I'd like to help you Angela, but I'm not sure the lads will be happy with that..."
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>> Not in the UK AFAIK. None of our cars has them.
>>
>> I doubt if Roger's, or Stu's, does either!
Correct, as far as I'm concerned! See quite a bit below to source Union Flag stickers!
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I was impressed that there were 66 posts discussing the size of the letters G and B. And then I read the thread...!
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Who cares about the size of the letters,can't see the continental police caring about it.
I've lived in the UK for a long time and getting off the sticker subject let's leave the EU club.
It's not for us and it will never be.
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Blimey, went to work without this phone and look at all the fun I missed.
So,
Who cares about the size of the letters...?
Apparently not the Continent's police, because no-one has mentioned that the little national letters that stir such passion here (and none at all over there) are significantly smaller than the sticker specification MM began this with. But then you do get one at each end, so perhaps that helps.
Londoner, a word on respect. My respect for you derives from a lot of what you contribute here, and extends to your absolute right to whatever views you wish to hold. But that is not the same as offering immunity to ridicule if I find them ridiculous; that is the way of the world's religious zealots and thugs and I'm not going there.
If your convictions are sufficiently robust and valid, nothing I say will make the slightest difference. If my words make you feel something you said was a bit silly or exaggerated, that's legitimate debate and I offer no apology for it. I'd expect no more or less from you.
Tea, anyone?
}:---)
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>> Londoner, a word on respect.
Very well put, WdB! Excellent and considered post.
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I've got a white plate on the front and a yellow plate on the back of my car, no other country in the EU wears that colour combination that I've come across.
Never been stopped though a few German's have thought my name was Arnold Clark.
Last edited by: gmac on Tue 14 May 13 at 22:04
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Better than Mercedes Bristol anyway. Always sounds like a German porn star to me.
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Have you met my wife Citroën Niederlassung Köln ?
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I knew a guy, ( bit of a plank to be honest ) who when he got a new company BMW 316 ( whoo hoo ) almost inevitably had the model badges removed ( bless ) but also when he was next in London bought a replacement set of number plates and tax disc holder so the logo at the bottom said "BMW Park Lane" as opposed to the northern dealer it had actually come from.
I never did get what was the point of a 316. Bit like a clip on bow tie really.
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>> but also when he was next in London bought
>> a replacement set of number plates and tax disc holder so the logo at the
>> bottom said "BMW Park Lane" as opposed to the northern dealer it had actually come
>> from.
That is incredibly sad.
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>> That is incredibly sad.
It is a bit, but not as bad as debadging a 316. What's the point? It's obvious what it is.
That said, I think Humph is underrating the 316, a strong car with heart that can take a bit of neglect and in determined hands keep up with the traffic to put it mildly thanks very much. But that isn't what it's for, it's just a quality small saloon with a bit of borrowed pzazzz.
I have to add in all honesty that one of the most truly horrible cars I've ever met was a 316 that passed through my hands briefly some years ago. Its interior was like a public bog in a rough part of town and two of its gears howled and growled painfully. And there was a big clonk in the front left suspension. But although neglected the engine was still sprightly and the horrid thing was driveable. I got hold of it very cheap for a hack friend and told him what it needed, but the idiot just used it as it was. His posh Ghanaian girlfriend has never forgiven me.
Later my daughter told me that the redhaired maniac who was its nominal owner was a crackhead. Now you tell me, I griped. What a ghastly shed that was. But it still had the makings without costing more than a grand or so.
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>> I've got a white plate on the front and a yellow plate on the back
>> of my car, no other country in the EU wears that colour combination that I've
>> come across.
>> Never been stopped though a few German's have thought my name was Arnold Clark.
Didn't France use the same until they dropped the system with he departement number on the plate?
The new plates there are white both F&R.
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Possibly, can't say I've noticed but then I don't go through France very often, no space in the glovebox for the breathalysers. What with the spare bulb kit, hi-viz jacket for everyone in the car, V5C, insurance, MOT, fire extinguisher, spare belts, toolbox, spare wheel, wheel brace, 2 tonne trolley jack, first aid kit, spare water for coolant/washer bottle, box of kleenex on the rear parcel shelf, travel rug, mars bar and drinking water incase the whether turns, shovel incase there's a freak snow storm, snow chains, mobile phone charger, back-up phone I'm surprised the EU has not outlawed small cars as being unsuitable for all the safety kit we're supposed to carry.
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>> Wot, no Werthers?
>>
Absolutely not, don't want paedo pellets in the car.
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Maybe the EU would like us all to carry a nodding dog on the back shelf, saying "Oh yes" all the time?
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Majority of continentals don't carry all this junk in the boot.Wintertyres yes compulsary in Germany.
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Non-compliant GB stickers - Bromptonaut
