Not meaning to pick on GB but he wrote this of his Outlander:
...first time i've really pushed her on long fast bends...
Referring to a car this way seems to be a habit from a bygone age of unreliable machinery and - sorry - old-fashioned attitudes to 'ladies'. I'm 45 and I've never done it, nor has anyone my age that I know. Who, I wonder is the youngest here who still does?
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Surely nothing to do with attitudes to "ladies" or unreliable machinery but lingering remnant of noun gender common in many languages but now confined to ships and other machinery and the country itself.
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>> the country itself.
>>
"herself" :)
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"herself"
Doesn't sound quite right though. "England and her allies" however seems natural. Odd.
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Referring to cars as "she" is still used by relatively young people (younger than you, WillDeBeest), many of them ladies, down in Somerset.
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Well I'm from Somerset and old and I still do it.
The old Prelude is 'she', the Jaguar is definitely 'he' - being The Beast - but the latest Honda will never be anything but 'it'.
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Only cars with character get gender attached. The lancer for example will never be anything but "the lancer" or "it"
Fortunately stream engines are frequently given gender specific names, Kings Queens or Princesses, Historical characters. Those with no gender specific name default to female.
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Most lorries are known as 'her' but my favourite one, a Scania Topliner, was always known as the Penthouse Suite because I went upstairs to a bed above the windscreen.
Whenever she was faced with an impossible hill or a reverse with gnat's whiskers to spare though, I always said to her 'Come on Clara, you can do it'!
Pat
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I wasn't going to respond to this, but the reference to the old fashioned attitude to ladies bit in the OP does need to be discussed as it probably applies to many of us.
In naming me in particular as some sort of anachronism, i make no defence, i probably am.
I am a product of my marvellous and possibly out of their own time parents and how they raised me and the circumstances in which i was raised, later my schooling which was from a bygone age of mortar boards and capes, later still my young adult life for better or worse when slightly taken under the wing of a well mannered faulted gentleman so to speak, no innuendo or undercurrents meant or wanted from that by the way.
As a child of a family in private service there was standard of address and behaviour to be followed when speaking with varying strata of people, men and women, this included discretion and a certain blindness to be developed at times, that led to a rather fond feeling of defence of those who one as a family served if you follow my meaning...certain infamous butlers for example would not have been wanted by family or those who served them...discretion wasn't actually asked for or taught it simply was the way to behave even as child.
I treat the fairer sex (anyone male or female actually) with respect and maybe old fashioned deference, they are not just a person they are a woman who will be afforded quaint in some eyes due manners as long as i live, this applies to any and every woman whatever their perceived position, i see the same standards in my son who has never been steeped in such a childhood.
I have never yet met with any hostility due to this, no doubt there are some who would object but maybe our paths haven't and unlikely to cross anyway, so be it, its a free country for the time being, through a lifetime of living and working with mainly down to earth people, from poor to very old money, maybe they accept me for who i am as i do them.
My car is a she, she always will be, my long suffering wife (who has some similarities in her heartbreaking past) pats the car on the dash after a safe faultless long journey and whispers ''good girl''.
We are who we are, i for one am not changing to suit a fashion spike of today which will be superceeded tomorrow when it suits.
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Always called a ship a she.My father favourite vessel he captained was the Lydia.My daughter is called Lydia.
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Howya doin Ducky, been on your hols?
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In many languages, inanimate objects are automatically "it". Some languages do not differentiate between he/she, his/her (i.e. uses a single pronoun word).
When learning English, it was a shock to me a ship being referred as "she" :-)
Good that English has universal "the" at least. I guess most other European languages have he and she version of "the"!
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Not to bad Dog,need my appendix taking out everything else ok after a CT scan.Sometimes I like to see everybody's comments and interest on this forum always a good read.
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>>Not to bad Dog,need my appendix taking out everything else ok after a CT scan.
I imagined it was something along those lines Dutchie, how's the sister doing?
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Sister ok Dog she is having chemo for six months,busy week I am seeing our middle son next week in London and going to see sister in June for a few days.Thanks for asking Dog.You look after yourself leave the missus alone..;)
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Glad to hear your all alright comrade, my sister is doing very well with her Myeloma, she hasn't got to go back to the hospital for 6 months, amazing what 'they' can do these days.
I haven't 'actually' laid hands on the missus lately Dutchie, well, not my missus anyway ;)
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I hope she don't read this Dog you be in for a good hiding..;) Good luck to your sister Dog,my sister is the boss and I know it.
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>> Always called a ship a she.
>>
Interestingly, ships are always "she" even when they have masculine or non-specific names.
When the battleship "Prince of Wales" was sunk by the Japanese, I'd bet an officer said "She's going down, Sir".
Old Navy care to comment?
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The old man always respected the ships he sailed on.Strange when you think about it pieces of metal.
I am glad the sailors are honoured who where on the convoys they deserve it.
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>> Old Navy care to comment?
>>
>>
I usually refer to ships as "She", Submarines are always referred to as "The Boat" if you are speaking about an obvious vessel or by its name or nickname to identify a particular vessel.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 10 May 13 at 16:46
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>> Always called a ship a she.My father favourite vessel he captained was the Lydia.My daughter
>> is called Lydia.
>> My only Grand-daughter is a Lydia as well, Dutchie.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVBBxptpSY8
Ted
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I always associate the name with "Lydia The Tatooed Lady" sung by Groucho Marx, the only person who could rhyme it with encyclopaedia.
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English isn't so bad as German when it comes to genders of things.
From "The Awful German Language" by Mark Twain
"Every noun has a gender, and there is no sense or system in the distribution; so the gender of each must be learned separately and by heart. There is no other way. To do this one has to have a memory like a memorandum-book. In German, a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has. Think what overwrought reverence that shows for the turnip, and what callous disrespect for the girl. See how it looks in print -- I translate this from a conversation in one of the best of the German Sunday-school books:
"Gretchen.
Wilhelm, where is the turnip?
Wilhelm.
She has gone to the kitchen.
Gretchen.
Where is the accomplished and beautiful English maiden?
Wilhelm.
It has gone to the opera.""
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In French, the genders of the commonest slang words for male and female sexual organs are inverted. Funny, n'est-ce pas?
It is odd and a bit unfair of the Germans to have neuter girls when boys are already masculine. Girls have to wait until they are women to be given a proper gender.
Obviously genders are a nuisance to us when we are trying to communicate in other languages, but our errors amuse the foreigners just as theirs in English amuse us. Mother tongues make us, they carry a sort of national psychology and philosophy, a whole mode of thought. The more subtle the differences are, the more likely to lead to misunderstandings.
'What's 'e saying, Bill?'
'I dunno. 'It 'im in the ear'ole.'
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Personal pronouns - CGNorwich
