Motoring Discussion > New roundabout design Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Crankcase Replies: 23
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 Wed 1 May 13 11:42 
 New roundabout design - Crankcase
I was going to stick this in the lorry redesign for safety thread, but that's huge already. Mods, please move this if you prefer.

New roundabout design on trial attempting to improve safety for cyclists. At the end of the clip you can see a car whoosh straight past the lines making a cyclist pause unexpectedly, so be interesting to see what happens if it goes live.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22347184
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 Wed 1 May 13 14:39 
 New roundabout design - jc2
And if you continue to watch the clip(the whole clip was on the news),you see an existing junction with a dedicated cycle lane and about one cyclist in twenty using it!
Last edited by: jc2 on Wed 1 May 13 at 14:40
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 Wed 1 May 13 14:40 
 New roundabout design - Fursty Ferret
We have similar roundabouts in Aylesbury (albeit without the bike lane) and IMHO they're absolutely bleedin' lethal. Cars rocket around the roundabout without realising they might have to give way on the exit.

I've had to leap out of the way twice on one of these roundabouts as cars have driven directly at me whilst on the pedestrian crossing. Could be the Dutch are just better drivers, hence these roundabouts work in The Netherlands.
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 Wed 1 May 13 14:43 
 New roundabout design - jc2
The first time I ever went to Delft,the Dutch driver of the car I was in hit a cyclist at a junction.
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 Wed 1 May 13 15:54 
 New roundabout design - TeeCee
The other interesting bit is that the cycle lanes joining the cycle lane on the roundabout here have give way markings, which are universally ignored.
Always hysterically funny to see cyclist (or scooter) A bomb straight out into cyclist (or scooter) B going round the roundabout. Happens all the time.

Funniest car vs. bicycle incident I saw here was when the local Classic car show was on. An immaculate Mk1 E-Type Jag pulling out of a side turning next to the office. Problem was, by the time he had enough of that great long nose out that it was physically possible for him to see down the inside of the road from the cockpit, he already had a cyclist over the bonnet. Somebody didn't get the "if you can't see him, he can't see you" message.
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 Wed 1 May 13 14:49 
 New roundabout design - Alanovich
>> Cars rocket around the roundabout without realising they might have to give way
>> on the exit.

That was my precise first thought when I saw this. Unless all roundabouts are made like this in the UK, drivers unfamiliar with them will get invloved in a lot of problems. Car will exit roundabout, driver will suddenly stand on brakes as a cyclist sails in front of car. Car behind, driver not expecting car in from to stop when exiting a roundabout, will belt him up the trumpet.
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 Wed 1 May 13 14:54 
 New roundabout design - Bromptonaut
>> I've had to leap out of the way twice on one of these roundabouts as
>> cars have driven directly at me whilst on the pedestrian crossing. Could be the Dutch
>> are just better drivers, hence these roundabouts work in The Netherlands.

Painting line/lanes on roundabouts will not import the Dutch culture with regard to cycling and cyclists. Most people there use bikes for short journeys and consequently driver awareness is at a level we'll never attain.

Drivers will misunderstand or ignore the requirement to give way to cyclists on entering and leaving the roundabout. Like so many daft designs this one also leads the cyclist into conflict with n/s of LGVs where they're potentially unseen until squashed.

I'd rather take my chances with the other traffic thank you.

JC - I've not seen the clip you mention but there's no compulsion to use cycle lanes. Many exhibit poor quality design/implementation such that they're dangerous. London has a long segregated two way lane east/west along Tavistock Place. It's too narrow for its purpose, has numerous dangerous junctions with north/south roads and has a ludicrous intersection where the east and westbound lanes cross one another.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 1 May 13 at 14:55
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 Wed 1 May 13 15:34 
 New roundabout design - Cliff Pope
Isn't it directly contradicting the rule that you give way to traffic on the right on a roundabout, if on exiting you may have to give way to a cyclist cutting across from the left?
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 Wed 1 May 13 15:59 
 New roundabout design - TeeCee
>> Isn't it directly contradicting the rule that you give way to traffic on the right
>> on a roundabout, if on exiting you may have to give way to a cyclist
>> cutting across from the left?
>>

A good point. It works here because priority to the right is still around so everyone is in the habit of checking right at junctions, which catches the cyclist on the outside.
I suspect that they have overlooked that little prerequisite when importing the concept.....
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 Wed 1 May 13 15:34 
 New roundabout design - Old Navy
I think cycle lane use should be mandatory where they are provided.

I wonder how many drivers know that pedestrians crossing have priority over vehicles turning into a road?
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 Wed 1 May 13 15:52 
 New roundabout design - Cliff Pope

>> I wonder how many drivers know that pedestrians crossing have priority over vehicles turning into
>> a road?
>>


I do, but most pedestrians don't. I find if I do give way the pedestrian dithers about while the car behind me does an emergency stop. Then the pedestrian refuses to cross anyway.

I have never known whether this rule applies on roundabout exit roads too. Does a pedestrian really have priority if he steps across in front of a vehicle doing 50-plus and probably accelerating?
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 Wed 1 May 13 16:43 
 New roundabout design - CGNorwich
>I wonder how many drivers know that pedestrians crossing have priority over vehicles turning into
>> a road?

Only if they have started to cross.
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 Thu 2 May 13 08:02 
 New roundabout design - Cliff Pope

>>
>> Only if they have started to cross.
>>

Traffic going straight on has priority over traffic making a turn into a side road.
Pedestrians walking along a main road and wanting to cross the end of a side road and go straight on are "traffic" so have priority.
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 Thu 2 May 13 08:38 
 New roundabout design - CGNorwich


Highway code rule 170

"watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way."
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 Thu 2 May 13 08:56 
 New roundabout design - Crankcase
I had a minor altercation with a driver recently in that situation. I was crossing the junction, she was turning into it. She stopped as the bumper touched my leg (I was halfway over) and then hooted. We spoke.

She was about thirty years younger, but knew thirty times as many swear words, and seemed strangely unreceptive to highway code advice.

I'd like to think she went home that night, thought about what she'd done, looked it up and is now a repentant driver with fewer anger management issues. I'd like to think that.
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 Wed 1 May 13 15:37 
 New roundabout design - Crankcase
On my commute home there's a stretch of road between two villages - about a mile perhaps - with an adjacent cycle lane. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, there's a chap on a bike who resolutely refuses to use it. He looks like a "proper" cyclist, or at least he has the legs of a Goliath.

The road is a 50mph limit, and I guess he must have a thick skin, because the road is such that it's very hard to overtake. So there is inevitably a long queue of traffic behind him, and many drivers as they go past, night after night, hoot, rev, swerve, bellow and gesticulate.

It must be a very poor cycle lane I guess, although many others use it with no apparent problems. Certainly there are no house drives or other side roads, and it borders fenced off fields. I think I saw a pedestrian once.

No, of course I don't do any of those things.
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 Wed 1 May 13 15:51 
 New roundabout design - Bromptonaut
>> On my commute home there's a stretch of road between two villages - about a
>> mile perhaps - with an adjacent cycle lane. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it,
>> there's a chap on a bike who resolutely refuses to use it. He looks like
>> a "proper" cyclist, or at least he has the legs of a Goliath.
>>
>> The road is a 50mph limit, and I guess he must have a thick skin,
>> because the road is such that it's very hard to overtake.

Similar where I live. Cycle lane is shared use with footpath. I've no problem with that in principle. This surface however is loose grit top dressed with broken glass and patched with dog muck.

OK on a mountain bike and passable with care on a Brompton. The 27*1.25 wheels on my vintage Dawes or the narrow 700C on a 'road' bike are unsafe at any speed on such a surface.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 6 Jun 13 at 01:19
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 Wed 1 May 13 17:41 
 New roundabout design - Pat
The problem I can see is that in the rush hour it will cause much more congestion on the roundabout.

If you have an artic having to stop at an entry to an exit that close the trailer is still going to be on the roundabout holding everyone up....and if there are three or four cyclists a few yards apart, you'll never get a loaded 44 tonner moving without baulking one of them.

Pat
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 Wed 1 May 13 19:57 
 New roundabout design - ....
>> The problem I can see is that in the rush hour it will cause much
>> more congestion on the roundabout.
>>
>> If you have an artic having to stop at an entry to an exit that
>> close the trailer is still going to be on the roundabout holding everyone up....and if
>> there are three or four cyclists a few yards apart, you'll never get a loaded
>> 44 tonner moving without baulking one of them.
>>
>> Pat
>>
Exactly ! European roundabouts tend to be mahoosive in comparison with the mini roundabouts in the UK which were installed to keep traffic (read motorised vehicles) moving.

The other issue I see is some car drivers have an issue yielding to other motor vehicles. How will they be educated to not barrel across the mini roundabout ? It's a complete shift of mindset.
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 1 May 13 at 19:57
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 Wed 1 May 13 19:54 
 New roundabout design - swiss tony
Nearly a shunt @ 36 seconds....
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 Thu 2 May 13 12:16 
 New roundabout design - diddy1234
It's nothing new. it really isn't.

Stevenage has had segregated cycle ways since the 50's.

Has this country not learned anything ?
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 Thu 2 May 13 12:20 
 New roundabout design - Alanovich
Stevenage has only existed since the 1950s, so it could be built with such things in minds. Other towns and cities don't have this luxury, although why other New Towns didn't do it is a bit of a mystery. Bracknell for example. I know it well but I can't think of any cycleways. Maybe that's just because I don't cycle there, though.
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 Thu 2 May 13 12:27 
 New roundabout design - Bromptonaut
>> It's nothing new. it really isn't.
>>
>> Stevenage has had segregated cycle ways since the 50's.
>>
>> Has this country not learned anything ?

How well do the cycleways and dutch style roundabouts work in Stevenage?

Milton Keynes has the 'redways' which are completely seperate from roads. They're quite good in places but surface damage, glass and yoofs congregating in underpasses mean there's a reluctance to use them after dark.

On the occasions I've used them on Origami Phoenix rides they've been OK but that was in daylight and in number.
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 Thu 2 May 13 12:38 
 New roundabout design - diddy1234
admittedly the statistics show about a 3 - 5% usage which isn't great in the Stevenage area.

Maybe us lot in Stevenage are all too fat and lazy to 'bother' with bicycles.
Last edited by: diddy1234 on Thu 2 May 13 at 12:39
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