Hello all, I am a 16 year old who is eager to learn to drive.
Could anyone advise me on what first cars are insurance friendly and are not known for having a lot of problems?
Honestly: I am looking for a cheap-insurance and good-looking car and am realistically looking to spend around £1000 so that I will have money left over for any potential problems to resolve any issues it may have with it being an older car.
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Have you actually checked insurance quotes? I think you might be in for a very very big shock. No car is cheap to insure for a 17 year old. I was 26 when I passed my test, and was still paying £1200 a year to insure my first car.
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Thanks for replying,
My brother was 17 when he passed and he only paid £1200 on a Corsa 1.2 he paid £1200 for the car aswell.
I got a quote on a £500 VW Polo 1.4 for just shy of £5000.
So I was wondering if there were any cars that I could potentially buy which would have cheaper insurance?
Or a way to make insurance cheaper (tracker, etc...)
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If memory serves, when this came up as a question to the man in the hat, the big ticket item with insurance for a young bloke is "how many mates is he going to kill / maim in the thing when he wraps it round a tree while semi-bladdered and showing off?".
I recall that the recommendation was a Smart ForTwo. You can only produce a maximum of two personal injury claims when writing off one of those and unlike other two seat cars, it lacks any sporting pretensions.
Insurers don't give a monkey's about the value of a small, cheap car in these situations, it's the personal injury liability that gives them the screaming heebie-geebies when insuring young drivers.
Last edited by: TeeCee on Thu 18 Apr 13 at 08:14
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Hello Lee ! You could do worse than to start by reading Ted's "ickle" thread, some sensible suggestions there on a similar brief. Welcome to the wallet emptying world of motoring !
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Lee the problem is your age, not the car, it doesn't matter how much the car is worth, it is the damage insurance companies perceive you can do to other motorist. One thing you might find is a much newer car might be cheaper to insure, my 1.1 Panda (2010 plate) is a lot cheaper to insure than my bangers were, because it has better brakes, it is generally safer etc.
I would really wait till your about 21, you will find premiums come down a hell of a lot by then. There is really no rush. When I was 16 all I could think about learning to drive and buying a car, but I soon realised there is more important things to with my life!
PS you make me old. I am generally one of the youngest on here, and you are 14 years younger than me.
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Welcome, Lee.
Lots of advice available here - not just motoring related. Breadmakers, vacuum cleaners, baked beans, bicycle racks, ect, etc...
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I discovered to my surprise when insuring my 17 year old daughter that a large old very uncool car (1989 Volvo 240 estate) was much cheaper to insure than a small low-rated modern car.
Presumably as no young person wants to drive one, the statistical accident rate is minimal.
She still didn't want to drive it though :)
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Funny you should say that Cliff. I was wondering if that sort of thing still held true. I learned to drive on my dad's then new 244 and I want to remember it cost something like £13 to have me added to the insurance. When I passed my test I got a Wolseley Hornet of my own and that cost £50 to insure. Of course this was all a very long time ago but I had wondered if the basic principle remained similar.
I'd have loved a 240 estate at 17. Would have been ideal for all my skiing kit.
My son, who is only 13 now has said that he might want his mum's Qashqai as his first car if we still have it. Or some kind of vaguely jeepish thing anyway as opposed to a supermini. It might be similarly surprisingly cheap to insure by comparison to a little ( less safe ) car.
Dunno.
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>> Of course this was all a very long time ago but I
>> had wondered if the basic principle remained similar.
>>
>>
It was two years ago. The Volvo quote was about £500, went up to £1200 for the smallest Peugeot.
But now, armed with NCD, the Peugeot is back down to £600 in her own name.
Of course, anti-sexism may push it back up again - renewal is soon.
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"I'd have loved a 240 estate at 17"
Strangely enough, my first "I want one of THOSE" cars after I passed my test was a V70 estate. I couldn't even get an insurance quote for one! So, logically, my next "I REALLY want one of THOSE" car was an automatic Subaru Forester Turbo...
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Some ways to make learning to drive cheaper as an under 21 - all of which have to do with making yourself less risky for an insurer to take on:
0. Before going any further, consider what Rattle said. I was mad keen to learn to drive at 17 too, but insurance was prohibitive. I didn't need to be able to drive until I was about to start work, so I waited until then and - literally - saved thousands.
1. Don't buy a car, buy driving lessons. Get your test first, then the car.
2. Then build up a no claims bonus as a named driver on a parent's or older sibling's car provided you are genuinely an additional driver, not the main driver. Pretending not to be the main driver of a car is called fronting, and insurers get justifiably upset about that.
3. Shop around for cover carefully. Try a good insurance broker, not just the usual suspects online.
4. Choose your car carefully. But its the total cost of running the car for a year that matters, so weigh up the saving in insurance between cars vs. the purchase price. The smallest engine sizes in small cars tend to command silly prices. Be aware insurance group can change for different models of the same car.
5. Accept any offer of extra driver training, curfews, trackers etc. that are rewarded with a useful reduction in premium. Ignore those that don't.
6. Spend as little as you can on your first car, so you can afford to change it if it turns out to be a lemon, your insurance situation changes, or it no longer meets your needs. Prefer common models for which you can get body parts from the scarpyard easily. Make a shortlist of cars that suit your needs, then buy based on condition and price, not model, mileage or number of owners. And aim not to spend your whole budget so you can afford any unexpected repair.
Above all, good luck, drive safely, and happy motoring!
Last edited by: Gromit on Wed 17 Apr 13 at 11:38
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Skoda Fabia, 1.2, basic spec, should be in Group 1, and you should be able to find one for about £1000. Reliable, well built, cheap to run, not an embarrassment.
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Lee, get a quote on a Fiat Seicento, they seem to be just about the cheapest to insure car about and there are plenty of them around. Quite robust cars too. If you can afford it the 1.1 ( not the Sporting model ) is the best of the lot.
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>> Lee, get a quote on a Fiat Seicento, they seem to be just about the
>> cheapest to insure car about and there are plenty of them around. Quite robust cars
>> too. If you can afford it the 1.1 ( not the Sporting model ) is
>> the best of the lot.
>>
Absolutely bomb proof little motors, aside from having a ferocious appetite for clutch cables.
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Hi Alanovic,
I would gladly drive a Skoda Fabia 1.2 any day of the week!
However, with me not having much motoring knowledge and would prefer real advice without Googling, what would the (approximate) price be for a 17-year-old to be insured on the 1.2 Fabia for the first year if I paid it all in one go? I have no understanding of Insurance 'Groups'
Thanks
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Cars are designated into Groups by insurance companies - Group 1 having the lowest premiums.
At some point you may have to start filling in forms (online) to find out actual quotes from different companies.
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Exactly, FP. It depends on so many things, that quotes could range from the low hundreds to the high thousands. I'm just a bloke on the internet, I'm afraid I can't provide any sort of estimate whatsoever, Lee. I just suggested the Fabia as it's a Group 1 car.
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At your age your location is going to be a major factor too. It is not as simple as what car it is. I am 30 and still paying £500 a year but if I lived some where else I would probably be paying half that.
I would really wait though, even at 19 or 20 you will probably find it is a lot cheaper to insure a car.
Do you have any real need to be able to drive?
The other thing I will say is that you might find you need a lot more driving lessons than you need, I can't remember the statistics now but I think 50 hours is about the average these days. Now 50 hours at 25 per lesson is £1250 alone. Then there is the costs of the test which must be approaching £100 these days etc etc.
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>>Now 50 hours at 25 per lesson is £1250
Some change since I took my driving lessons in the 60s! I had 8 lessons before failing my first test, and a further 2 lessons before passing my second.
And that was about the norm, as far as I recall.
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More traffic on the road, stricter tests now. Also some people need a hell of a lot more than others so it pads it out. I think that 50 hours also included private practice as well.
Yep according to google 50 seems to be about right, the AA seems to think so as well
www.theaa.com/aattitude/start-learning/getting-ready/how-much-does-it-cost.jsp
I suggest the OP has a look at this site, full of young people. It helped me when I was learning.
www.2pass.co.uk/
The forum is quite useful as well. I passed in 2008 before the new style driving tests came in.
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There are insurance firms that will fit a monitor in your car and base your premiums on the output.
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>> what would the (approximate) price be for a 17-year-old to be insured on the 1.2
>> Fabia for the first year if I paid it all in one go? I have
>> no understanding of Insurance 'Groups'
Ok lee, you sitting down?
Passing your test at 17, full time student, living at home, no other drivers, third party, nice safe area in the east midlands, a skoda fabia 1.2 is going to cost you at least 3,300 pounds a year to insure. And that was a dodgy quote, most of the safer ones were looking at 5000 pounds a year.
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Hi Zero,
I found one for £2,669.66 Anually and that was without a 'tracker.' I am going to ask my brother where he bought his insurance!
£1200 for the 1.2 Corsa Y reg
£1200 for a years insurance with a tracker
17 Years old.
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Not sure how old your brother is, but for young people insurance has gone up an awful lot. You have to ask yourself why that is though. I can't see any insurance company wanting to insure a 17 year old for £1200 today even with a tracker. The only way I that will work is that the £1200 price is a con, and the second it catches you doing 31 in a 30 they will rack up their premium.
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He is 18 - almost 19 (29th April)
They were quite good with his tracker actually, they actually refunded his insurance if he drove well (he had been going like 1-5mph over the limit at times) and he got refunded on 1/2 occasions (I don't pay attention to him)
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>>
>> >> what would the (approximate) price be for a 17-year-old to be insured on the
>> 1.2
>> >> Fabia for the first year if I paid it all in one go? I
>> have
>> >> no understanding of Insurance 'Groups'
>>
>> Ok lee, you sitting down?
>>
>> Passing your test at 17, full time student, living at home, no other drivers, third
>> party, nice safe area in the east midlands, a skoda fabia 1.2 is going to
>> cost you at least 3,300 pounds a year to insure. And that was a dodgy
>> quote, most of the safer ones were looking at 5000 pounds a year.
>>
and, I have a full-time job as a Computer Technician in a Computer Services company
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So you have found out how fickle and complex insurance companies are in setting quotes. Some of the strangest variations can have large effects on the quote. Sometimes you can use that to your advantage.
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Lee, may I introduce Rattle? He has a few things in common with you.
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"Lee, may I introduce Rattle? He has a few things in common with you."
Neither have been laid yet.
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I find that a bit offensive. I may have been single since 2009 but I am no whats it!
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>> I am no whats it!
Cyber sex doesn't count ;)
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>> "Lee, may I introduce Rattle? He has a few things in common with you."
>>
>> Neither have been laid yet.
>>
That is where you are wrong, my friend, I'm 16 - That's legal.
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Put a good risk driver, eg a few parents, on the policy too.
TPO is often more expensive than fully comp.
If you don't use it for work (unlikely, as a learner) then you don't necessarily have to be the main driver. Be careful of fronting, but could you quite possibly be a genuine secondary driver - eg mum uses it for shopping, you learn to drive in it?
Some specialist brokers are now doing special policies for young classic owners - Footman James, I think.
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Or do you just want something mechanical to play with?
Old tractor, good runner for £500, tax exempt, MOT exempt, insurance £30 pa any driver, any age. NFU classic tractor policy. You can drive on the road at 16.
Slightly TIC :)
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Why is car insurance for youngsters so expensive nowadays? I bought my first car in 1956 and had no trouble buying both it and third party insurance out of the proceeds of a Saturday job in our local Millets. My parents didn't contribute anything ~ they couldn't have afforded to. The car was 20 years old when I bought it, and it was an absolute death trap which these days wouldn't be allowed on the road. What's changed, insurance-wise, between 1956 and now?
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What's changed, insurance-wise, between 1956 and now?
1 The size of third party claims which has massively increased in recent years.
2. The ability of insures to analyse data far more accurately and target profitable business at the expense of less profitable groups such as young drivers. Historically a lot of high risk business was subsidised by low risk policy holders almost as a matter of public policy. That is no longer the case.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 17 Apr 13 at 14:02
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>> had no trouble buying both it and third party insurance out of the proceeds of a Saturday job in our local Millets.
£17,000 STOLEN IN DARING LOW-SPEED DAYLIGHT ROBBERY FROM MILLETT'S STORE
Police following 'trail of slime' in search for perpetrators
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>> >> had no trouble buying both it and third party insurance out of the proceeds
>> of a Saturday job in our local Millets.
>>
>> £17,000 STOLEN IN DARING LOW-SPEED DAYLIGHT ROBBERY FROM MILLETT'S STORE
>>
>> Police following 'trail of slime' in search for perpetrators
>>
I should have been so lucky. £17000 would have bought me 680 cars like my first car, or 11 houses like the one we lived in.
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Pop over to MoneySavingExpert and play around with the tool on their insurance page that lets you see how your quote can change depending on the (legitimate) job title you give.
Even a reduction of 1% counts at the sort of premium you're looking at...
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! added my teenage daughter to my policy-no extra premium but restrictions on when and where she could drive it.
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Lee, you really have to do the leg work as only you know fully your background for quotes.
My eldest lad is now 19. I have an 8 year old Volvo diesel I wanted to give him when he was 18 as a get you going car. The cheapest quote I got was £14k (going up to £25k) for a car worth about £4k. He has spent the last two years in a Toyota Yaris, the quote for the Volvo is now down to less than £1200 for him.
I can't really say what car will work for you as you need to get something which all the other 17/18 year olds (especially in your area) are not driving and crashing. That also affects your premium as much as your age and driving history.
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 17 Apr 13 at 15:27
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I found that a Peugeot 107 was the cheapest for my 18 year old son.Even the Toyota Aygo and the Citroen C1, which is the same car, was £500 more than the 107.He are my insurance tips which brought my sons insurance down....
1.He waited till he was 18 because just the difference in a few months cost a fortune extra.
2.Put both parents on your insurance but name the 18 year old as the main driver.Putting me down as the main driver and him as a second driver actually increased the premium.(They know your fronting!)
3.Black boxes actually increased the quotes for my son.
4.Take out a multi car policy drives the cost down.
5.Doing extended driving courses are a waste of money as far as the insurance quotes are concerned.It made no difference to the price.
6.Try 3rd party,fire and theft for the first year.Its was £500 cheaper than fully comp.
His first years premium was £2500 for 3party,fire and theft.If he had been 17 then that went up to £3000.
After a years driving with no accidents his premium is £595 this year fully comp.
How it manages to drop so much in one year is beyond me.The only thing i can think of is that in your first years insurance they don't know how your going to drive but after a year of no claims they are more relaxed about you crashing and hence a lower premium.
My advice is take driving lessons and pass your test and at least then you have your license.Buying and insuring a car can come later!
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You can see where they are coming from. Friends of ours have a 17 year old son. Very sensible lad, doing well in all ways. He was desperate to drive and they are in the fortunate financial position that they were able to buy him a new Polo to learn on. He passed his test first time after very few lessons and took the Polo on as his car about a month ago. I imagine the insurance was hefty, I didn't ask, but as implied by the car purchase they'd be able to afford it.
Three days after passing his test he smashed the car. He's ok and no one else was hurt but the car is in a mess.
As I said above, he's a sensible young guy and he's pretty cut up about his car but maybe, just maybe, if he'd had to save up for something himself he might, just might have been more careful...
Hard to say really. Could just have been a case of inexperience meeting happenstance.
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>> As I said above, he's a sensible young guy
>> Hard to say really. Could just have been a case of inexperience meeting happenstance.
You can be as sensible as you like, but as a new driver, you need to get experience. Maybe he tried to do something that wasn't possible and paid the consequences - I never smashed a car up but I did take a few risks with my first car, as I'm sure we all did.
I soon learnt though :)
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He passed his test first time after very few
>> lessons and took the Polo on as his car about a month ago. I imagine
>> the insurance was hefty, I didn't ask, but as implied by the car purchase they'd
>> be able to afford it.
See i know its fashionable in certain circles to do this for various reasons including safety being a large consideration, but they do their offspring no favours.
I'm against this for two reasons, firstly it gives the youngsters no sense of value as you allude to Humph..
Secondly and mainly the modern car (all vehicles) increasingly does everything for the driver, little or no control or fine skill required regardless of conditions...until they push it too hard having no concept of control because they don't need to control the car to drive fast...the inevitable eventual loss of control often ends up in nasty prang.
I'm sure most of our first cars needed to be driven with care and balance if they were to stay on the road at all, we learned to control our cars at much lower speeds, thats not to say we didn't make mistakes and still do, its that our earliest mistakes and over exuberance were tempered by ours and the cars abilities, we learned to 'feel' the car and the road at speeds and forces where corrective measures could be learned and applied.
Nothing quite like a front heavy but light overall RWD leaf sprung car with unservoed brakes and ABS years away to teach you how to control a car well, and to read the road.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 18 Apr 13 at 09:53
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>> Nothing quite like a front heavy but light overall RWD leaf sprung car with unservoed
>> brakes and ABS years away to teach you how to control a car well, and
>> to read the road.
>>
Only bettered by a Reliant Tripod GB, a car that did not forgive mistakes.
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>> Only bettered by a Reliant Tripod GB, a car that did not forgive mistakes.
>>
Had a Reliant Kitten for a few years, what a nice little car that was and rare, that handled really nicely without the tendency to fall over..;)
One car i really wish i'd kept, a fully Hammerite painted and then greased chassis such as there was of it should have seen a very long life.
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>> Had a Reliant Kitten for a few years
I saw one of them in street machine mag with a small block chevy. Must have been anything but a kitten :)
What a fantastic sleeper.
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>> I saw one of them in street machine mag with a small block chevy. Must
>> have been anything but a kitten :)
>> What a fantastic sleeper.
Engine in the back C?, don't tell me someone managed to stuff it under that keyhole bonnet?
I love sleepers, takes the stealth multi overtake from simply satisfying to sensually smug..;)
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>> I love sleepers, takes the stealth multi overtake from simply satisfying to sensually smug..;)
I may have been fibbing about the sleeper thing - just found some pictures and it originally had a Rover V8, being swapped for the Chevy engine with separate chassis by the looks of it. I don't know if he finished it, but someone mentioned Street Machine mag in the comments, so it probably is the one.
Anyway, it doesn't look standard anymore :)
passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/195102-pics-of-my-bros-v8-reliant-kitten-with-5-7-chevy-ls1-engine.html
And not really recommended as a first car for a nearly 17 year old...
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>> And not really recommended as a first car for a nearly 17 year old...
I agree with Corax, best give that one a miss Lee..;)
I wouldn't go near the thing either, being so narrow those tyres almost combine to make a rear roller like a lawnmower.
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>>being so narrow those tyres almost combine to make a rear roller like a lawnmower
Good for getting a grip on the cold tits bits though gord.
:}
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>> Good for getting a grip on the cold tits bits though gord.
Not too sure about that D, looks like a hard tweak of the throttle would result in the car flipping over...need someone braver or stupider than me to drive it.
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I thought the same gb, I tuned & road tested a few sit-up-and-beg Prefects with Rover V8 engines, that was enough!
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>> Only bettered by a Reliant Tripod GB, a car that did not forgive mistakes.
>>
Why not go the whole hog? Austin 7.
Braking by prior appointment, crash gearbox, lighting provided by captive glowworms, hand signals de rigeur (if it has trafficators, they won't work), handling that brings whole new levels of meaning to the word "vague" and such delightful touches as the need to drive one-handed when its raining, so you can manually wind the lever on the almost useless vacuum wiper.
Also offers the advantage of weeding out drivers who do not become accomplished at reversing as, with reverse being a lower gear than 1st, hills are ascended backwards.
The new driver will also gain a grounding in basic vehicle maintenance techniques, as he will be obliged to both stop regularly to swap the dynamo for one of the selection of spares he carries in the boot and also rebuild the failed one(s) on completion of his journey.
Kids of today.......no idea.......
Personally I'd rather that new drivers had all the latest and greatest (e.g. ABS, collision avoidance and such), especially if they are following me when they have a "moment".
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>> Personally I'd rather that new drivers had all the latest and greatest (e.g. ABS, collision
>> avoidance and such), especially if they are following me when they have a "moment".
Yes thats fine in an ideal world, except that the modern car teaches the new driver that it will overcome anything he/she does so he/she will do it, which is fine till the laws of physics take over, and we've all seen the results of that.
What i was getting at is that many of these new drivers haven't experienced things getting slightly or even badly out of hand at lower recoverable speeds as we did, so haven't developed the feel and respect of the road we learned.
No ones suggesting we go back to fred flinstone days or that they should learn to control a coach and four first, i for one just think that cars have got a bit too competent for the new drivers own good in some cases.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 18 Apr 13 at 13:06
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One thing I've always been glad to have done was starting my motorised life on two wheels. You quickly learnt that failure develop a keen awareness of road and traffic conditions was both painful and expensive.
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To find out what cars are in what groups - look here
www.parkers.co.uk/cars/insurance/car-insurance-groups/
Having been through this with 2 sons, put all your details in a comparison website like
Compare the market, putting another person on the policy as a named driver will "dilute" the risk and therefore the cost providing that person is over 25 and not had any accidents or convictions (ie your Mum or Dad) but put yourself as the main driver.
Annual mileage and occupation will also affect the premium, along with your post code.
Fully comp is uaually the same - or cheaper - than TPF & T for young drivers.
We found Adrian Flux (google it) to be a good broker for young drivers and my youngest paid around £1200 for a Group 2 Ford Ka and he was able to pay in monthly instalments. We do have a good post code though (insurance wise!)
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My 17 year old son has shown absolutely no interest in driving. He can get anywhere he needs to be on foot or using his subsidised bus pass.
I have suggested he learns to drive asap, even if he doesn't get a car for a few years, but he would rather spend the money on girls - seems to have new one every week!
Driving just doesn't seem to be the 'right of passage' it was when I was his age.
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>> I have suggested he learns to drive asap, even if he doesn't get a car
>> for a few years, but he would rather spend the money on girls - seems
>> to have new one every week!
>>
Jealousy will only bring on the Hump(h).
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>> >> I have suggested he learns to drive asap, even if he doesn't get a
>> car for a few years,
>>
A very sensible idea as it gets him out of the "Two year rule" as much as anything.
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>> My 17 year old son has shown absolutely no interest in driving. He can get
>> anywhere he needs to be on foot or using his subsidised bus pass.
>>
>> I have suggested he learns to drive asap, even if he doesn't get a car
>> for a few years, but he would rather spend the money on girls - seems
>> to have new one every week!
>>
>> Driving just doesn't seem to be the 'right of passage' it was when I was
>> his age.
>>
Ah - but when we were that age , you needed a car - in order to get a girl - in order to get.....well you know the rest!
All different now
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Yamaha RD350B sufficed. The tales I can't tell you on here.
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>> To find out what cars are in what groups - look here
>>
>> www.parkers.co.uk/cars/insurance/car-insurance-groups/
>>
Older cars aren't on the list. When it was listed, the Volvo had an enormous rating, having a 2.3 litre engine.
I got the impression they went by accident/claims statistics anyway.
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Certainly in big cities with the ever improving public transport car ownership is not really important. If I didn't need it for my job I wouldn't need a car, and sometimes I am thinking of actually just getting a mundane paid job just so I can ditch the car and all the expenses that goes with it. But then I am getting it serviced today to the tune of £170 so I am bound to feel like that!
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>> Certainly in big cities with the ever improving public transport car ownership is not really
>> important. If I didn't need it for my job I wouldn't need a car, and
>> sometimes I am thinking of actually just getting a mundane paid job just so I
>> can ditch the car and all the expenses that goes with it.
What would your girlfriend/wife think about that?
I ask because I'd bet that women are on the OPs mind, when it comes to getting a car.
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I don't have one, but things have changed. The good chance she would have one anyway! I am sure she would rather spend time in nice restrauants than fighting over parking space.
I am not saying I would get rid of my car, but realistically it costs £100 a month in loan, £50 a month to insure, £60 a month in fuel and then there is repairs and servicing etc. A bus costs around £50 a month. I still have to buy bus tickets as well as it is by the far the easiest way to get to town from my office and also it is very handy at weekends.
I probably spend well over £300 a month on transport with the car being the biggest expense. I do love the sense of freedom a car gives me, and even if I am not carrying computers it means I can get to jobs much quicker etc. To me though it is only transport, but I guess 5 years of owning a car means it is no longer a novelty!
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Never mind the Sheikh and slandering his sexual prowess and experience.
The best advice given to Lee so far is to learn road first of all from a vulnerable viewpoint. If he can face it and lives in a suitable place, a few months as a pizza delivery kamikaze should turn him from a sheep into a go-getting goat (or is it the other way round?). Even if he or his family is well-heeled scooter/moped is a useful baptism of fire trafficwise.
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It's 5 years since I launched my 17-year old into motoring so I don't think the money I paid is relevant today but the strategy (!) might help. An older named driver with a good record helped the insurance a lot.
998cc Citroen AX petrol for £350 bought off bay (cc was also important for insurance).
Third party fire & theft insurance from NFU Mutual with me as named driver £1200.
Good luck and welcome.
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For some reason I've always thought one of the ex-army landrovers could be a good first car, not sure how fast they are and I'm sure they pretty basic, looked quite cool to me.
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What first car could I buy (nearly 17 years old) - RattleandSmoke
