A garage / Peugeot dealer claims not to be able to remove the wheel nut/bolts from what I am told is a five year old 207.
The photo I have shows what looks like four standard nuts on an alloy wheel.
Would they be nuts or bolts?
I am more than a little surprised at the garage response plus some comments about security bolts. /drilling them off makes me think them might be taking advantage of a young mum!!!
She lives a distance away and I cannot visit her.
( so no scaffold tube to extend a wheel wrench leverage)
Maybe a visit to a local tyre depot for a second view and if they can remove / refit them then it should be a cheap solution and reassurance ?
I will get confirmation of the vehicle details.
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The 2003 406 I had a while ago had bolts not nuts, I'm fairly certain. Its locking wheel key appeared to be made from rather soft cheese and only lasted for three or four uses...
Most tyre places should be able to loosen anything with enough ingenuity/ experience/ brute force, especially if you're holding a fiver when you ask them.
Last edited by: Dave_TiD on Tue 16 Apr 13 at 04:38
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They are bolts.
The locking one will be the issue,the design of those is deplorable, 4 randomly spaced pins, that have a habit of shearing if one stares at them for too long, are what is used to act as a key.
tinyurl.com/d2ungqy
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Thanks for updates. I suspected that bolts were fitted.
I guess brute force risks snapping the bolts but something has to be tried.
Must be easier than Jaguars. There does not appear to be an easy way to get security nuts off. Flimsy keys, " special tools" hammering on sockets all seem to fail so it is some how cut em off!
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This revives the old debate as to whether wheel bolts should have their threads lubricated or be tightened up "dry".
I decided, on my Panda 4x4, to leave the threads unlubricated. This resulted in terrible corrosion. Eventually, when a tyre fitter seriously overtightened the bolts on one wheel, the locking bolt adaptor sheared off. I also found, on the same wheel, damage to the thread on the wheel hub. The awful corrosion meant that loosening and tightening all the wheel bolts on the car needed considerable effort.
As the wheel bolt lock adaptor was sheared off I had to find a way to remove those bolts. A local tyre fitter was unable to help and in the end I visited these guys
www.dynomec.co.uk/
They are in Castleford but I drive past regularly so it was not a problem. They were able to remove all the locking bolts for me.
I then had to clean up all the threads in the hubs with a suitable size tap, which removed the corrosion and saved the slightly damaged thread. Finally I decided to very lightly lubricate the threads with copper grease, which will be my policy in future.
Sorry to go on a bit, hope my comments are helpful.
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>> This revives the old debate as to whether wheel bolts should have their threads lubricated or be tightened up "dry".
Many years ago I decided to ignore the debaters and put a bit of copaslip on the threads, while keeping the shoulder of the nut or bolt which contacts the wheel scrupulously clean.
I've never had one come loose[1] and I've never had one seize since.
Another hard policy I have is that if the car has alloy wheels on which the centre hole fits snugly over a protrusion of the hub, that gets copaslip too. Stops the things seizing to the hub.
[1] Well actually I have, but that was because some steaming eejit in a garage forgot to tighten the things!
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Thanks NotdoctorChris.
Maybe the compromise is to copper grease just the locking bolt.
I always used to put some on the hub/wheel surfaces, but strictly speaking that's not ideal either - the friction between the surfaces is what is supposed to transmit the torque, not the wheel studs/bolts.
So now I just put a bit on :-)
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>>I always used to put some on the hub/wheel surfaces, but strictly speaking that's not ideal either - the friction between the surfaces is what is supposed to transmit the torque, not the wheel studs/bolts.
I used to think that as well. NC (IIRC) did the maths on here a few years ago and came to the conclusion that it's about half and half.
I also understand it's important to have a snug fit between the centre bore of the wheel and the hub for the transmission of forces, although I notice not all cars comply with this.
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Bain of Volvo P2 owner's life locking wheel nuts when the manufacturer specifies 140Nm for the wheel bolts and the locking nut adaptor is made of Brie.
These folks (in Reading) may be close enough for you to make the trip www.lockingwheelnutsremoved.com
Last edited by: gmac on Tue 16 Apr 13 at 10:06
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Thanks for that link, gmac. Very local to me. And I've just realised that I didn't check for the presence of the locking wheel nut when I bought my Laguna recently. Gulp. The search will commence this evening.
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Worth the effort now rather than being stuck later.
The wheels on my car are off three times a year when switching from winter to summer then back to winter tyres + servicing. I still had a locking nut stick after a tyre change and overzealous tightening of the wheel nuts. I wish I'd known about this place then.
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When few cars had alloys then locking wheels nuts seemed essential. I've been taking them off and throwing them to one side for about 8 years now, albeit the wheels I have are whatever is standard on the car.
Not lost a wheel yet, touch wood.
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>> When few cars had alloys then locking wheels nuts seemed essential. I've been taking them
>> off and throwing them to one side for about 8 years now, albeit the wheels
>> I have are whatever is standard on the car.
>>
Probably says a lot about the locals.
In Germany locking wheel nuts and car alarms are optional extras, the cars come with an immobiliser only.
I asked a colleague about this, he told me if your wheels are stolen and the car is damaged as a result of the use of locking nuts the insurance company will not pay for the repair of the damage, only the replacement wheels and tyres.
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For the last 30 odd years I've used copper slip on the thread, taper, and the hub. Not broken a stud, nor lost a nut or a wheel in that time.
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>> For the last 30 odd years I've used copper slip on the thread, taper, and
>> the hub. Not broken a stud, nor lost a nut or a wheel in that
>> time.
The problem is not that they will come undone, but that you end up with too much tension in the bolt/stud when you use the advised torque setting.
Setting tension by torque is a rubbish idea really. I fastened them by feel for at least 20 years and never had one come loose. And I greased all the threads.
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>>
>> Setting tension by torque is a rubbish idea really. I fastened them by feel for
>> at least 20 years and never had one come loose. And I greased all the
>> threads.
>>
I agree. Messing (and struggling) with torque is just trying to make a complicated science out of something pretty obvious to commonsense. They have to be tight enough to stay tight, but lose enought so that you can get them undone with a standard wheelbrace.
The only wheel I've ever had come off was when I forgot to tighten the nuts. Since then I always leave the wheel brace in position as a reminder while I lower the jack, in case I get interupted.
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Just spent half an hour removing the wheels from the Forester, rotating front to rear and lightly applying copper grease to the fitting surfaces. I've had major problems in the past with the alloy wheels corroding to the hub on Golfs and Saabs and in one case had to take a rubber headed mallet to the wheel to shift it.
The Forester has studs and nuts which I find much easier to work with than hovering the wheel over the hub and trying to align the first bolt; so is there any reason from an engineering or manufacturing point of view to choose bolts over studs and nuts?
alfalfa
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>> so is there any reason from an engineering or manufacturing point of view to choose bolts over studs and nuts?
Sixteen or twenty less parts per car?
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On my many trips to National Tyres over the past couple of years, I've noticed that, although they use air to get wheels off, they always use a torque wrench to refit them.
I always Coppaslip the threads and the hub faces. I use a 10" long strongarm and socket and tighten them 'til I get a squeak.....Never had a problem.
Another tip, for those with wheelnuts, is to Tippex the ends of the wheelstuds. You can then see where the studs are by looking through the wheel holes. Works well with 5 studders.
Ted
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Can you still buy tippex?
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yes, still loads in the stationary cupboard at work.
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>> Can you still buy tippex?
Wilkinsons.
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>> >> Can you still buy tippex?
>>
>> Wilkinsons.
But who still uses typewriters?
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>> >> >> Can you still buy tippex?
>> >>
>> >> Wilkinsons.
>>
>> But who still uses typewriters?
>>
Someone will, not just that though some people at work use it to correct hand written paperwork.
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>> >> >> >> Can you still buy tippex?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Wilkinsons.
>> >>
>> >> But who still uses typewriters?
>>
>> Someone will, not just that though some people at work use it to correct hand written paperwork.
>>
...hand written paperwork - like Sudoku ;-)
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>> ...hand written paperwork - like Sudoku ;-)
Dont put wrong numbers in!
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Thats a coincidence, my lads S type is in the garage where he gets his lorry serviced, he doesn't have the time to tackle it, the lads there are going to sort out his problem...being he tried to remove a front wheel splitting a good socket, and for the icing on the cake the blasted monkey metal or similar locker has broken.
Its offside too, we had to change the two nearside wheels only couple of months ago when he wrecked two NS tyres and wheels in a pot hole and they came undone no problem, maybe belting the pot hole broke the rust seal?
I'm a wheelbolt and every other nut and bolt coppaslipper too....and i always loosen the locking wheelnut if anyone else has tightened the family fleets wheels and re-tighten it sensibly.
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If I'm sent out to one of the newish fleet Fiestas we have, to sort out a wheelchange then I make sure I have the big copper hammer on board.
The wheels are usually stuck on and need a smack on the back of the rim.
If I have to go out to a flat tyre and it doesn't look damaged then I stuff a quick 20psi into it from me 12V pump and hightail it off to National......lazy sod !
Ted
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>> Setting tension by torque is a rubbish idea really.
The reason for having a torque setting for threaded fasteners is to ensure that they not overtightened (which could lead to damage) as well as not undertightened. Overtightening wheel bolts could lead to stripped threads, sheared bolts and damaged/cracked wheels.
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> Overtightening wheel bolts
>> could lead to stripped threads, sheared bolts and damaged/cracked wheels.
>>
That's exactly my point. No one with commonsense using an ordinary wheel brace overtightens wheel nuts. That's what garages do with their air tools, presumably set to an excessive torque figure.
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Maybe this would help...
www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/locking-wheel-nut-remover-2pc?da=1&TC=SRC-locking+wheel
I used to use coppaslip, but these days I use anti-rust spray from LIDL.
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>> That's exactly my point. No one with commonsense using an ordinary wheel brace overtightens wheel
>> nuts. That's what garages do with their air tools, presumably set to an excessive torque
>> figure.
>>
I use a torque wrench on my wheel nuts, I have seen a large chain of quick tyre sales outlets doing up wheel nuts with an air gun, and then clicking a torque wrench on the nuts. I suppose it checks that they are sufficiently over tightened.
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>> I have seen a large chain of quick tyre sales outlets doing up wheel nuts with an air gun, and then clicking a torque wrench on the nuts.
I've seen various methods being used by whoever is doing the job at the time.
From what you've mentioned.
To nipping them up with the air gun, then finishing off tightening them with the torque wrench.
To tightening them up, and then giving them another ¼ to ½ a turn with the torque wrench just to make sure they're tight.
To just using a plain old star wheel brace, then finishing off with a torque wrench.
Worst example I've seen though is where a 17 yr old spotty oik was trying to undo the wheel bolts with the air gun set to the tighten up setting and then complaining how tight the bolts were and he might have to get the breaker bar on them instead. Muppet.
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I meant the wheel nuts were over tightened with an air gun, then just clicked with a torque wrench to comply with company procedures.
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Not where I go ON. They do use an air spanner, but set to a low torque level. When they put the torque wrench on the bolt heads or nuts they move before the click is heard.
Caveat emptor though. I watched closely first time I went there. They seem decent guys.
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Peugeot 207 wheel nuts/bolts problem. - Dave_
